BioGreen-Sate micro-organism may replace paraquat and glyphosate

[Dumbastheycome]

10 hours ago, farmerjo said:

I disagree,a little is ok.Plus there has been no long term studies on the effects of alternate products.

My aim here is to have organic soil which i've proved having countless worm castings in the field.

 I don't turn the land allowing a mulch layer to suppress most of the weeds but you still need a little glyphosate till i'm expecting 8 years in to it.I have no need for fungicides or insectides with this practise 4 years in.

Drying out your soil turning it and then having to replace the microbes,is that natural(organic).

Burning diesel into the atmosphere,burning to control weeds.

The whole reason the government is trying to ban only 3 chemicals is simple.

Because they know the impact of banning every chemical and chemical fertilizers at once would bring the industry to a stand still.(isn't that what everyone wants a straight swap to organic)

We could all ways just cover everything in black plastic and you know how micro plastic people carry on,actually probably the same as for resistance to glyphosate.

But at the end of the day if the government is prepared to subsidise us say 6000 baht a rai to grow to their organic standards(which would not be hard)i would give it a go.

Otherwise will stick to growing animal feed using chemicals to improve the quality of produce.

I can understand  your thoughts but I am not sure if you understand the real issue of soil microbiology.

Or the significance of  downstream  effects.

But I  congratulate you on your general approach.

I am not so sure there is any overall expectation of a swap to  "organic" rather than the growing expectation of genuinely safer  food.

And in achieving  that to any degree  would need some investigation of the cheap fertilizers.

While the NPK may be correct in available content ratio that  percentage content is well below the undesirable salts and contaminants due to the addition and/or extraction from industrial waste products.

Too often any advantage in applying such is incrementally doing as much damage.

In Thailand  few take advantage of soil testing services and instead are well convinced  that more is  better in much the same way as using herbicides and insecticides in  mix proportion well  above the necessary !

 

 

 

[Dumbastheycome]

10 hours ago, somo said:

People are confusing herbicides and pesticides. Herbicides such as paraquat and glyphosate do not not enter the food chain. They are harmless to consumers but dangerous to use. It is the farmer at risk not those eating the food so all those here complaining about being poisoned by them are talking nonsense and jumping on a bandwagon so they can feel green.

Pesticides are a seperate topic but banning safe herbicides is plain ridiculous and will make a lot of Thai farmers suicidal as they lose their livelihood. That will be the only loss of life caused by these chemicals or rather the lack of them.

If such herbicides do not enter plants then  how do you imagine they  work? Or have  resistant crops been developed  to wear  little  rain coasts?

Paraquat actually works  rapidly  in foliage destruction from inside the leaves by basically  causing cellular explosion. But as such is a defoliant.

Glyphosate is a slower genuine  killer  by disrupting the  plants ability to process  nutrient uptake causing  death by starvation.

Resistant crops  have  been genetically engineered to avoid that disruption by the artificial addition of an existing genetic property from naturally resistant plants. Increasing resistance  by  more and more plants is being attributed to the awakening of the same or similar genetic property in possibly all plants .

Regardless both glyphosate and  paraquat both are absorbed into even the  resistant plant. No little rain coat, sorry.

For  many years there was no information provided about  what  happens to the chemicals that have been absorbed into food crop basically due to the assurance that it was  a non issue  because  was  "food safe".

It is  still  undefined as to the effect of such residuals but  there is  growing evidence that it  is  incrementally effecting  the  human  endocrine system for one!

In the agricultural soil context there is growing evidence that beneficial micro organisms which take up  nutrients in the same way as plant are being damaged. Similar  evidence  affecting the  health of bees where the micro biological gut content is destroyed causing death  by infection. Also similar evidence of damage to aquatic life forms .

Food  tests have identified significant levels of  herbicides in food as well as on food.

So one way or other they indeed do enter the food chain!

 

 

[farmerjo]

1 hour ago, Dumbastheycome said:

If such herbicides do not enter plants then  how do you imagine they  work? Or have  resistant crops been developed  to wear  little  rain coasts?

Paraquat actually works  rapidly  in foliage destruction from inside the leaves by basically  causing cellular explosion. But as such is a defoliant.

Glyphosate is a slower genuine  killer  by disrupting the  plants ability to process  nutrient uptake causing  death by starvation.

Resistant crops  have  been genetically engineered to avoid that disruption by the artificial addition of an existing genetic property from naturally resistant plants. Increasing resistance  by  more and more plants is being attributed to the awakening of the same or similar genetic property in possibly all plants .

Regardless both glyphosate and  paraquat both are absorbed into even the  resistant plant. No little rain coat, sorry.

For  many years there was no information provided about  what  happens to the chemicals that have been absorbed into food crop basically due to the assurance that it was  a non issue  because  was  "food safe".

It is  still  undefined as to the effect of such residuals but  there is  growing evidence that it  is  incrementally effecting  the  human  endocrine system for one!

In the agricultural soil context there is growing evidence that beneficial micro organisms which take up  nutrients in the same way as plant are being damaged. Similar  evidence  affecting the  health of bees where the micro biological gut content is destroyed causing death  by infection. Also similar evidence of damage to aquatic life forms .

Food  tests have identified significant levels of  herbicides in food as well as on food.

So one way or other they indeed do enter the food chain!

 

 

We need to get away from using GMO crops as an example.

Most farmers will use glyphosate as a knockdown chemical and that's it.

No spraying in crop or pre-harvest.

This BIOGREEN-SATE no doubt can be used as a paraquat replacement,besides higher cost do we know anything else about it that is not going to cause long term harm,how quick weeds will become resistant,what it does to waterways.

Other similar products suggest don't spray if it looks like rain,that can be a bit tricky in the rain season so that says to me they are still harmful.

There is no replacement for glyphosate that i'm aware of other than mechanical tillage.           

[farmerjo]

2 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

I am not so sure there is any overall expectation of a swap to  "organic" rather than the growing expectation of genuinely safer  food.

Agreed so regulate on certain crops.

 

[Chazar]

On 10/30/2019 at 11:51 AM, canopy said:

Weeding is a tough, back breaking job and shouldn't get slave wages. Just a matter of raising the wage enough and everyone will be begging to do it.

 

So if  i said 500 a  day?? because Ive done that and thats  more than  the people doing render on walls "chap" and they still wont do it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/business/bayer-roundup.html

[Chazar]

5 hours ago, Tayaout said:

Sri Lanka banned glyphosate and don't seem to have found any alternative chemical yet.

Then they un-banned it  due to lack of produce and weeds growth   https://www.baumhedlundlaw.com/toxic-tort-law/monsanto-roundup-lawsuit/where-is-glyphosate-banned/

Edited November 1, 2019 by Chazar