Health Insurance: Non-Imm O-A

[oslooskar]

33 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

So we now have the strange situation that the American guy will not be required for at least 1 year to have health insurance to stay on his OA Visa, while the French guy needs to have it now or his permission to stay will not be approved.

I don't see anything strange about it. The French guy's visa expires before the American guy's visa. And when the American guy's O-A visa expires he'll have to show proof of health insurance as a condition of getting an extension of his O-A visa just like the French guy. Also, a number of people here seem to think that the health insurance requirement does not apply to O-A visas issued before October 31, 2019. This is true, BUT ONLY UNTIL THOSE VISAS EXPIRE in one year. After that if the holder applies for an extension of his/her O-A visa he/she will be required to show proof of health insurance coverage just like all the other O-A visas. At least that's how I see it from all the info I've gathered here.

[domdom]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

Thanks for the response.

I want to point out that the French guy going for extension of his permission to stay ALSO had a pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa and subsequent permissions.

So we now have the strange situation that the American guy will not be required for at least 1 year to have health insurance to stay on his OA Visa, while the French guy needs to have it now or his permission to stay will not be approved.

It's a bit of a mess, to use an understatement.

The french guy asked for extensiin on 31st and would supposigly get it today 1st.. so after the 31st date barrier.. Should he have done it last week, would have got it.. this is totally stupid..

I understand what you say..

Anyway we can summarize the situation..

Thailand having tourists apparently leaving some hospital debts decides to charge, not the tourists but long term expats living here, who obviously don t have debts and who day by day inject money into thai economy..

I fear there will be no end to unfair decisions.. year by yearcwe are more pressurized..

For me with pre existant pathologies, I will have to pay a thai insurance on top of my foreign one I cannot abandon becauae it covers my pathologies..

I can afford paying it without any problem, but I begin to be fed up to have to obey stupid rules without any reasonable real base.. I feel being ripped off

Good evening

[sirineou]

I only stay in Thailand short periods of time do to work requirements , and so far for the past 13 years have being doing the visa exempt thing with border runs, retiring from work soon and will be saying longer, but married and will be going that route via a Non Imm-O so I don't really know,  So so far this requirement does not affect me 

But  I am wondering, what is preventing people converting their Non Imm-AO to a  non Imm-O and not having to deal with medical insurance?

Edited November 1, 2019 by sirineou

[Pib]

10 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 

But  I am wondering, what is preventing people converting their Non Imm-AO to a  non Imm-O and not having to deal with medical insurance?

Nothing at this time...in fact that's the recommendation immigration offices are telling people.    

[Andrew Dwyer]

56 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I only stay in Thailand short periods of time do to work requirements , and so far for the past 13 years have being doing the visa exempt thing with border runs, retiring from work soon and will be saying longer, but married and will be going that route via a Non Imm-O so I don't really know,  So so far this requirement does not affect me 

But  I am wondering, what is preventing people converting their Non Imm-AO to a  non Imm-O and not having to deal with medical insurance?

I guess many ( like myself ) are on extension originating from an OA visa and are still clinging on to the hope that this won’t affect us.

If it does then we can convert to a non imm O visa but it does mean leaving the country .

 

Personally my extension isn’t due until Sept 2020 so unless the muddy waters get even muddier and I’m forced into an early decision I have some time to peruse my options:

Buy the insurance.

Convert to an O visa.

Get out of Dodge !!

[Huckenfell]

22 hours ago, Max69xl said:

Personally, I think, and others too, that you won't have any problems if immigration at the airport in BKK have read and understood the instructions concerning the insurance. It says in the police order that the officer shall look for notes from the Thai embassy/consulate in the passport concerning the insurance. You have no notes, so there shouldn't be any problem. That's my opinion. 

I hold an O-A visa expiring  9th Dec.  Last week i did a visa run to Satun Malaysia. Without any insurance i was stamped back in for a further 12 months.

[Huckenfell]

11 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

The post#37 by SpokaneAl confirmed he had no problems entering Thailand with a pre October 31st issued OA Visa.

The Immigration Officers at Thai entry-points have been instructed to look for Embassy-added notes re the Health Insurance requirement on OA Visas.  Since your Visa was issued pre October 31st, it does not have any of such notes and hence no worries.

Still it would be much appreciated when you would post your experience on entering next week.

After all, this is Thailand and only multiple reports of people confirming that Non Imm OA Visas issued before Oct 31st are not queried on health insurance, will take away the doubts/uncertainty surrounding the issue.

As i have already stated,  I passed through immigration on my O-A for the second year stamp with no problems concerning the insurance.

[Huckenfell]

10 hours ago, oslooskar said:

All O-A visa holders are required to have health insurance. My O-A visa was issued on February 5, 2019 in Los Angeles California and I am required to have proof of health insurance when I apply for an extension of that visa in February. Am I required to have health insurance right now? NO! I am, however, required to have it in February as one of the requirements for getting the aforementioned extension of my O-A visa. So, in your case, I would guess that you will have no worries about health insurance until October 7, 2020 when, and if, you apply for an extension. That's just a guess though.

If you are correct, which you are not, why did i go through for my 2nd year last weekend, with no insurance requirements.

 

[Huckenfell]

9 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Contrary to what your write, it is not 100% sure that ALL O-A Visa holders that apply for an extension of stay will need to comply with the new health insurance requirement.  For sure it will apply to those holders of an O-A Visa issued after Oct 31 of this year.  But it remains to be seen whether also holders of O-A Visas issued before that date or holders of permissions to stay based on original O-A, will need to comply with the new requirement.

Yes, there have been several reports of immigration officers telling OA holders that they will need to have health insurance when they come for their next extension of stay.  And yes, the Police Order re the health insurance requirement enforcement mentions 'extensions of stay'.

But there are also other reports and interpretations of the new requirement.

Anyway, in course of coming weeks we will know for sure when the first OA holders will visit their provincial IO's for extensions of stay.  It's a crazy situation and to avoid utter chaos a clear instruction/guideline from IO Headquarters would be very welcome to end the confusion.

I have just done a visa run on my O-A and was stamped back for another 12 months, no insurance necessary. I think it only applies to O-A visas issued after 31 st Oct 2019.

 

[Huckenfell]

8 hours ago, sirineou said:

 I am not affected as I am married and will be going for Marriage extension but This medical insurance requirement for Non IMM A-O is not a very well thought out plan, IMO if the government will require it, they need to create a government backed plan for uninsurables over a certain age . Perhaps the ability to buy into the National Health Plan. The current situation is crazy IMO.

Yes ! The sensible thing for them to do. I am in my 80's with not a chance in hell of getting insured.

 

[Huckenfell]

6 hours ago, Max69xl said:

We don't know yet if the second year of an O-A Visa will be hassle free as before. They might require an insurance the second year even if the visa was issued before October 31 this year.I read the police order and it isn't really clear. 

We do know, and there is no change, 2nd year stamp as usual, no problems. I have just done it at Satun.

 

[Huckenfell]

5 hours ago, oslooskar said:

I did my third 90-day report last week and was told by two immigration officers that I would need proof of health insurance when I applied for an extension of my O-A visa in February. They told me my Kaiser plan was unacceptable. Draw your own conclusions.

Not correct !

[Huckenfell]

3 hours ago, Pib said:

Yea, in case of multi entry OA then a re-entry permit is not needed "during the one year validity date of that OA."  

 

But if a person is already past that first year validity date and now in his second year because he left and reentered just before the validity expired then if he left without a reentry permit that would kill off the OA/permission to stay date.  

 

And if the person was really on a Retirement Extension of Stay based off that old OA visa which has expired, if he leaves Thailand without getting a reentry permit then the old OA visa/current extension of stay is killed off.  Like me...I originally entered on a OA in 2008 and now on my 11th Retirement Extension of Stay good under late 2020.  But if I was to exit Thailand tomorrow without a reentery permit to keep my extension of stay alive, I would need to start all over in getting a new Visa.  Like a Non-O visa outside of Thailand...or enter on an Exempt entry and start the process to convert that Exempt entry to a Non-O within Thailand.

 

 

" on your 11th Retirement extension"   Are you saying that you got your O-A in 2008 and have been getting extensions annually by just doing an 'in & out' before the expiring date ? for 11 years now.

[britishjohn]

I've had enough of all the hassle and have applied for a visa elsewhere but it will take a long time for approval. In the meantime I'm on my 2nd year of OA visa and will require an extension in Jan 2020. 

It won't come as a surprise if I need their special Thai insurance for that, meaning I'll have 2 health policies. However until then I'm not even sure if I can leave the country and be allowed back in without insurance. 

Killing off my OA and switching to an O visa sounds tempting. I do have 800k parked here. What are the requirements for the O ? Do I need medical and police certificate all over again ?

Is it virtually certain to be granted ? Or might I be going out of the frying pan into the fire ?

[Max69xl]

36 minutes ago, Huckenfell said:

I hold an O-A visa expiring  9th Dec.  Last week i did a visa run to Satun Malaysia. Without any insurance i was stamped back in for a further 12 months.

That was a good move, doing it last week. But if you're going to extend it,you might have a problem with the insurance. Even if you leave Thailand on a re-entry permit and come back, same thing. 

[Max69xl]

10 minutes ago, britishjohn said:

I've had enough of all the hassle and have applied for a visa elsewhere but it will take a long time for approval. In the meantime I'm on my 2nd year of OA visa and will require an extension in Jan 2020. 

It won't come as a surprise if I need their special Thai insurance for that, meaning I'll have 2 health policies. However until then I'm not even sure if I can leave the country and be allowed back in without insurance. 

Killing off my OA and switching to an O visa sounds tempting. I do have 800k parked here. What are the requirements for the O ? Do I need medical and police certificate all over again ?

Is it virtually certain to be granted ? Or might I be going out of the frying pan into the fire ?

No medical or police record check and no insurance. The easiest way is to start with a 90 days Non-Immigrant O Visa. Then after 60 days you apply for the 1 year extension at the local immigration office. You need the >800k parked in a Thai bank 2 months before applying for the extension and stay above 800k for another 3 months. Then never below 400k until next years extension when you have to top it up to at least 800k again. 

Edited November 1, 2019 by Max69xl

[britishjohn]

1 minute ago, Max69xl said:

No medical or police record check and no insurance. The easiest way is to start with a 90 days Non-Immigrant O Visa. Then after 60 days you apply for the 1 year extension at the local immigration office. You need the >800k parked in a Thai bank 2 months before applying for the extension and stay above 800k for another 3 months. Then never below 400k until next years application when you have to top it up to at least 800k again. 

And I can apply for that outside of Thailand, say for example Penang ?

Will I get it there and then ?

[Max69xl]

6 minutes ago, britishjohn said:

And I can apply for that outside of Thailand, say for example Penang ?

Will I get it there and then ?

Where are you now? 

[oslooskar]

30 minutes ago, Huckenfell said:

Not correct !

Okay, you have my undivided attention. So please tell me why the immigration officers were wrong regarding their claim that my Kaiser Plan was unacceptable???

[britishjohn]

2 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Where are you now? 

I'm in bangkok

[Max69xl]

4 minutes ago, britishjohn said:

I'm in bangkok

You can do the Fly'n'ride up to Savannaket in Laos and go to the consulate there. You fly with Nok Air to Mukdahan and go by bus to the Laotian border. Just google it. Or go to Vientiane in Laos. 

[rickudon]

Heads up for those of you who originally entered Thailand on an OA and then got an annual extension - have a friend who was forced to take out the Thai 400,000 baht insurance to get his extension - even though he has been on extensions for 9 years. It was either that or leave the country and start again.

May have just been a rogue IO WITH THEIR OWN INTERPRETATION OF THE RULES but maybe not ....

 

I think the OA visa is now effectively dead.

[britishjohn]

17 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

You can do the Fly'n'ride up to Savannaket in Laos and go to the consulate there. You fly with Nok Air to Mukdahan and go by bus to the Laotian border. Just google it. Or go to Vientiane in Laos. 

I have a multiple entry re entry permit up to Jan 2020 also. So I assume there's no way to kill off the OA visa before then so I can apply for an O earlier ?

 

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

59 minutes ago, Huckenfell said:

" on your 11th Retirement extension"   Are you saying that you got your O-A in 2008 and have been getting extensions annually by just doing an 'in & out' before the expiring date ? for 11 years now.

After you had done your 2 years ( or whatever you squeezed out of it ) on your OA you can obtain a 1 year extension at your local IO ( financial requirements now required ) . This is an extension of your permission to stay and can be renewed yearly indefinitely, re-entry permits are required for travel outside LOS and 90 days reports required 

Kinda like the second year of your OA.

 

Not necessary to leave the country .

[Andrew Dwyer]

11 minutes ago, rickudon said:

Heads up for those of you who originally entered Thailand on an OA and then got an annual extension - have a friend who was forced to take out the Thai 400,000 baht insurance to get his extension - even though he has been on extensions for 9 years. It was either that or leave the country and start again.

May have just been a rogue IO WITH THEIR OWN INTERPRETATION OF THE RULES but maybe not ....

 

I think the OA visa is now effectively dead.

Is this the Frenchman ?, or another example??

[oslooskar]

51 minutes ago, Huckenfell said:

If you are correct, which you are not, why did i go through for my 2nd year last weekend, with no insurance requirements.

 

Okay, your visa was to expire on December 9, 2019, but look at the entry stamp when you entered Thailand in December 2018------does it say something to the effect that you're permitted to remain in the kingdom until December 2020? 

[gk10002000]

"

2 hours ago, Pib said:

Nothing at this time...in fact that's the recommendation immigration offices are telling people.    

yes but unfortunately even the Thais will have to ask or address the question, why require long stay OA to have insurance but not require long stay O to have insurance?  Both are long stay and for so called "risky" expats.  If the Thais are willing to dismiss the equivalence of O and OA, then the only reason left is the insurance ploy is a pure money grab scheme, and they get foreigner's money before they even leave their home countries.  Of course Thai Saving face mentality would never admit to such a thing if it were true.  Sadly, I predict O or any long term visa or extension will require Thai insurance soon.  The only reason that may not happen is because there may be an uproar from the local Thais that depend on the foreigners and expats for support, marriage, children raising etc.  If insurance becomes draconian, well the expats may have to leave.

[Max69xl]

13 minutes ago, britishjohn said:

I have a multiple entry re entry permit up to Jan 2020 also. So I assume there's no way to kill off the OA visa before then so I can apply for an O earlier ?

 

 

If you have a multiple re-entry permit it might be impossible to kill it before it expires. It would have been easier if you were on your second year with just a single re-entry permit.

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, Huckenfell said:

If you are correct, which you are not, why did i go through for my 2nd year last weekend, with no insurance requirements.

 

Because today is the first day of enforcement ?? 

 

Did you come in 'after the 31st October' ?? 

[Lovethailandelite]

2 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

"

yes but unfortunately even the Thais will have to ask or address the question, why require long stay OA to have insurance but not require long stay O to have insurance?  Both are long stay and for so called "risky" expats.  If the Thais are willing to dismiss the equivalence of O and OA, then the only reason left is the insurance ploy is a pure money grab scheme, and they get foreigner's money before they even leave their home countries.  Of course Thai Saving face mentality would never admit to such a thing if it were true.  Sadly, I predict O or any long term visa or extension will require Thai insurance soon.  The only reason that may not happen is because there may be an uproar from the local Thais that depend on the foreigners and expats for support, marriage, children raising etc.  If insurance becomes draconian, well the expats may have to leave.

This is only the curtain raiser, not the Grand Finale. It is coming to all long term extensions. Remember where you heard it first.