Health Insurance: Non-Imm O-A

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, Huckenfell said:

How  and what is required please.

You have to kill your O-A Visa by leaving the country without re-entry permit. Then take a trip to, for example Savannaket or Vientiane in Laos and apply for a 90 days Non-Immigrant O Visa. After 60 days you apply for a 1 year extension at the local immigration office. Cost 1900 baht. But you have to meet the financial requirements for the extension, either income >65k monthly or at least 800k in a thai bank account 2 months before the 1 year extension. 

But you have a long time left until you have to make the decision.

 

Edited November 2, 2019 by Max69xl

[Max69xl]

2 minutes ago, Huckenfell said:

OK so the answer is that he should have done a border run as i did . Common sense really.

That's correct. 

[Huckenfell]

1 hour ago, TheAppletons said:

a.  You did not get an extension of stay.  You left the country to obtain a new permission to stay for one year prior to the expiration of your original O-A visa.  

 

b.  You did this prior to the new law coming into effect on 31 October.  Your experience is meaningless in the context of the current conversation.  

OK SIR, you know best, but i also know that i got a stamp till 2020 and that's all that matters to me, thank you.

[Huckenfell]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

and I think this is the 3rd time I have pointed out.. That would have zero bearing on a law that starts November 1st. 

 

Why keep reposting it ???

Happy !   Happy !   Happy !    lololol

[lkv]

1 minute ago, Max69xl said:

You have to kill your O-A Visa by leaving the country without re-entry permit.

Come on Max. You cannot kill the non O-A visa during its validity, as you well know.

 

You can kill an extension of stay that way. Although, people that got a multi reentry permit are sort of f###ed.

 

By the way, Cambridge dictionary states: 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/dictionary.cambridge.org/amp/english/overseas

 

overseas

 

in, from, or to other countries

 

 

[Max69xl]

13 minutes ago, lkv said:

Come on Max. You cannot kill the non O-A visa during its validity, as you well know.

 

You can kill an extension of stay that way. Although, people that got a multi reentry permit are sort of f###ed.

 

By the way, Cambridge dictionary states: 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/dictionary.cambridge.org/amp/english/overseas

 

overseas

 

in, from, or to other countries

 

 

He's on his second year on his O-A Visa. He's got no free ME anymore

If he doesn't have a re-entry permit, then he will kill it if leaving the country. 

[lkv]

20 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

He's on his second year on his O-A Visa. He's got no free ME anymore

If he doesn't have a re-entry permit, then he will kill it if leaving the country. 

Reason I am pedantic and insist on this occasion that you use correct terminology, is because it creates confusions.

 

It's important because IF they start enforcing the Police order the way I understand it, the following categories will be scre#ed and effectively forced into insurance.

 

A. People with a valid non O-A (they cannot cancel the non O-A), and no consulate will issue a non O with a valid existing visa.

 

B. People on an extension of stay derived from a non O-A that have a reentry permit (either single or multiple actually)

 

C. People that are on a 12 month permission of stay obtained before the visa expired, to "get the extra year", AND already bought a reentry permit (single/multiple).

 

IF Immigration starts asking for insurance at the border, the above categories will have a bit of a headache.

 

Unless they maybe change the passport before they apply for a non O at an overseas Consulate/Embassy.

Edited November 2, 2019 by lkv

[Max69xl]

3 minutes ago, lkv said:

Reason I am pedantic and insist on this occasion that you use correct terminology, is because it creates confusions.

 

It's important because IF they start enforcing the Police order the way I understand it, the following categories will be scre#ed and effectively forced into insurance.

 

A. People with a valid non O-A (they cannot cancel the non O-A), and no consulate will issue a non O with a valid existing visa.

 

B. People on an extension of stay derived from a non O-A that have a multiple reentry permit.

 

C. People that are on a 12 month permission of stay obtained before the visa expired, to "get the extra year", AND already bought a reentry permit (either single or multiple actually)

 

IF Immigration starts asking for insurance at the border, the above categories will have a bit of a headache.

 

Unless they maybe change the passport before they apply for a non O at an overseas Consulate/Embassy.

We were talking about the second year on an O-A. With no re-entry permit the visa will be killed when leaving Thailand. The guy who asked me about this can stay almost a year more, but he's old and can't get an insurance unless he pays a lot. So, the only option is to kill the visa next year in, let's say October. Problem solved. Get it? 

[lkv]

14 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

We were talking about the second year on an O-A. With no re-entry permit the visa will be killed when leaving Thailand. The guy who asked me about this can stay almost a year more, but he's old and can't get an insurance unless he pays a lot. So, the only option is to kill the visa next year in, let's say October. Problem solved. Get it? 

I get it, you don't, and keep using wrong terminology.

 

Start using terms like "permission of stay".

 

That's what he is "killing".

 

So when you talk about your guy, you say:

 

He is on a 12 month permission of stay obtained before the non O-A visa expired, the non O-A visa is now expired, and there is no re-entry permit on his permission of stay.

 

In that situation, he can apply for a non O overseas.

 

The reason I am pedantic, is because the people in the categories stated in my previous post won't be as lucky as your friend, and they will find themselves in a catch 22.

Edited November 2, 2019 by lkv

[PETERHOF]

18 hours ago, Max69xl said:

No medical or police record check and no insurance. The easiest way is to start with a 90 days Non-Immigrant O Visa. Then after 60 days you apply for the 1 year extension at the local immigration office. You need the >800k parked in a Thai bank 2 months before applying for the extension and stay above 800k for another 3 months. Then never below 400k until next years extension when you have to top it up to at least 800k again. 

For O Visa "over 50yo", It seem that Penang, Vientiane and Sananakhet Thai Consulate require a letter from embassy as proof of retirement (in addition to bank letter showing a balance up to 800k baht).

But what about those who are over 50 but not still retired (no pension) and can't get this Retirement Letter from embassy  ?

[Peter Denis]

3 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Reminder on posts about persons denied:

- Post #71:

- Post #112:

- Post #71:

22 hours ago, domdom said:

Yesterday a french guy made his extension of stay in Jomtien (some years ago he had a OA visa he extended).. Came back as told today to get his passport back..

This morning they told him his extension won t be made unless he has a thai health insurance (he has a french one covering 100%)..

Otherwise they told him to change for O visa..

So, it appears both different officers who told me last week we were non concerned if already on extension of stay, told BS

Have a nice evening

 

- Post #112:

17 hours ago, rickudon said:

Heads up for those of you who originally entered Thailand on an OA and then got an annual extension - have a friend who was forced to take out the Thai 400,000 baht insurance to get his extension - even though he has been on extensions for 9 years. It was either that or leave the country and start again.

May have just been a rogue IO WITH THEIR OWN INTERPRETATION OF THE RULES but maybe not ....

I think the OA visa is now effectively dead.

 

Summary of where we are at the present moment.

It is now 3 days that the new health insurance requirement for Non Imm OA Visas came into effect.

Till now only 2 cases were reported of people whose application for a (re)-extension of stay based on their original Non Imm OA Visa was denied because of not meeting the new health insurance requirement.

I do not doubt these reports, but note that both of them were not first-hand reports.

 

So I think it is fair to say that more cases of OA Visa extension denial/acceptance are needed before we can make definite conclusions.

I expect that in course of coming days more cases (be it denial or acceptance of the application) will come in.

The reports will probably also be skewed towards denial, because the OA holders whose applications were accepted might not even be aware of the new health insurance requirement and would have been taken by surprise with a denial (like the French guy in case #71).

Bearing in mind that warned/prudent OA Visa extension holders will probably have applied before Oct 31 in the 30-45 day window before the validity date of their extension of stay expired, it might take a while before the potential unlucky ones with expiration date after December 13 < 44 days after Oct 31 > will start doing their applications for an extension of their present OA Visa / extension of stay. 

 

I think it's a good idea to keep track of the denials/acceptances, until it is clear what the actual practice is.

And I would not be surprised if there were differences in how this is handled between the provincial IOs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pookondee]

9 minutes ago, lkv said:

I get it, you don't, and keep using wrong terminology.

 

Start using terms like "permission of stay".

 

That's what he is "killing".

Id say you 2 guys arguing the toss over terminology is actually more confusing than anything said anywhere.

 

I for one have read both your arguments and am totally confused.

 

I thought you could get a normal O-A, (at one price) which is "killable" as you say..

 

but its also possible to get multi-entry O-A ( at a higher price) which i suppose is not killable??

[GeorgeCross]

8 minutes ago, PETERHOF said:

letter from embassy as proof of retirement

 

what is this and how can a UK citizen acquire (we have no bkk embassy anymore?)

 

 

[zydeco]

On 11/1/2019 at 2:08 PM, sirineou said:

 I am not affected as I am married and will be going for Marriage extension but This medical insurance requirement for Non IMM A-O is not a very well thought out plan, IMO if the government will require it, they need to create a government backed plan for uninsurables over a certain age . Perhaps the ability to buy into the National Health Plan. The current situation is crazy IMO.

Completely agree with you. But does the government care?

[lkv]

34 minutes ago, pookondee said:

I for one have read both your arguments and am totally confused.

 

Most people don't understand the difference between a visa and a permission of stay, and what an extension of a permission of stay is...i.e. extending your stay but not the visa, and what visa validity means.

[Peter Denis]

45 minutes ago, pookondee said:

Id say you 2 guys arguing the toss over terminology is actually more confusing than anything said anywhere.

I for one have read both your arguments and am totally confused.

I thought you could get a normal O-A, (at one price) which is "killable" as you say..

but its also possible to get multi-entry O-A ( at a higher price) which i suppose is not killable??

When a Visa is still valid (not over its validity date), it cannot be replaced ('killed') by applying for another Visa.

The same applies when you have obtained a Multi-Entry Permit, as that permit keeps your Visa (or rather the extension of stay based on the Visa) 'alive' when you leave Thailand and want to re-enter.

> The above is important because it prohibits holders of still valid OA Visas or those that obtained Multi-Entry Permits for their Permissions to stay based on original OA, to cross the border and apply for a different Visa category.  Of course, they can try but their application will be turned down as they still have a valid Visa or Multi-Entry Permit.

So they are effectively banned from applying for a different Visa category (one that does not require health insurance) until the validity of their Visa or extension of stay has expired.

[zydeco]

21 hours ago, sirineou said:

But  I am wondering, what is preventing people converting their Non Imm-AO to a  non Imm-O and not having to deal with medical insurance?

For some, I imagine it's the 800,000 baht in a Thai bank.

[lkv]

10 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

When a Visa is still valid (not over its validity date), it cannot be replaced ('killed') by applying for another Visa.

The same applies when you have obtained a Multi-Entry Permit, as that permit keeps your Visa (or rather the extension of stay based on the Visa) 'alive' when you leave Thailand and want to re-enter.

> The above is important because it prohibits holders of still valid OA Visas or those that obtained Multi-Entry Permits for their Permissions to stay based on original OA, to cross the border and apply for a different Visa category.  Of course, they can try but their application will be turned down as they still have a valid Visa or Multi-Entry Permit.

So they are effectively banned from applying for a different Visa category (one that does not require health insurance) until the validity of their Visa or extension of stay has expired.

1. Change passport.

2. Transfer permission of stay or extension of stay from old passport to new passport.

3. Do not transfer the re-entry permit.

4. Exit Thailand.

5. Apply for non O.

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, zydeco said:

For some, I imagine it's the 800,000 baht in a Thai bank.

with an Non Imm-AO extension you don't need 800k? 

[lkv]

8 minutes ago, sirineou said:

with an Non Imm-AO extension you don't need 800k? 

You do. It's exactly the same as extending a permission of stay from a non O.

 

The only difference being, as @LivinLOS pointed out, you will additionally need insurance when extending the non O-A permission of stay.

 

So 800K plus Thai insurance.

Edited November 2, 2019 by lkv

[sirineou]

3 minutes ago, lkv said:

You do. It's exactly the same as extending a non O.

 

The only difference being, as @LivinLOS pointed out, you will additionally need insurance when extending the non O-A.

 

So 800K plus Thai insurance.

Which is why I asked my original question of:

11 minutes ago, zydeco said:

But  I am wondering, what is preventing people converting their Non Imm-AO to a  non Imm-O and not having to deal with medical insurance?

 

[lkv]

8 minutes ago, sirineou said:

But  I am wondering, what is preventing people converting their Non Imm-AO to a  non Imm-O and not having to deal with medical insurance?

Which is exactly what some IO's at the local office are now telling people, to go overseas and get a non O, and circumvent the insurance.

 

Trouble is, there are some situations as explained above where Consulates will refuse to issue the non O, if people still have a valid non O-A or a permission of stay associated with a reentry permit.

 

The logic being, you are already allowed to enter Thailand, you already have a valid visa / valid permission of stay (if with reentry permit).

 

You cannot have 2 valid visas in the same time / you don't need a visa if you have a valid permission of stay mantained with a re-entry permit.

Edited November 2, 2019 by lkv

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, lkv said:

Which is exactly what some IO's at the local office are now telling people, to go overseas and get a non O, and circumvent the insurance.

 

Trouble is, there are some situations as explained above where Consulates will refuse to issue the non O, if people still have a valid non O-A or a permission of stay associated with a reentry permit.

 

The logic being, you are already allowed to enter Thailand, you already have a valid visa / valid permission of stay (if with reentry permit).

 

You cannot have 2 valid visas in the same time.

That's a good reason, I guess they have to wait until the -AO expires or try a different IO location.

No need to do an extension until you -AO is near expiration anyway.

[lkv]

11 minutes ago, sirineou said:

That's a good reason, I guess they have to wait until the -AO expires or try a different IO location.

No need to do an extension until you -AO is near expiration anyway.

Yeah, but if reports come (and we need to wait a few more days to get clarity), and the IO's at the border start enforcing the Police order as I understand it, then you can't exit Thailand and return without insurance. 

 

So you would be somewhat stranded in Thailand.

 

Not important for the ones not travelling frequently, but important for the ones that do.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, lkv said:

No no, a reprieve until one must exit and come back for any reason non visa related.

 

Then, one would be asked for insurance (second entry onwards), and the permission of stay would be granted according to the duration of the insurance.

 

For example, no insurance would entitle the holder for a permission of stay of zero days.

 

I believe, someone like SpokaneAl who just entered once the new policy took effect on a pre-Oct. 31 issued OA visa could remain in Thailand, if he wanted, for the entire initial one year permission to stay he received and not have to worry about insurance.

 

If he then left Thailand just prior to his one year permission expiring and then re-entered in order to activate a final additional one-year permission under his original pre-Oct. 31 O-A visa, I don't think it's at all clear yet what would happen with the insurance requirement on that subsequent entry.

[sirineou]

4 minutes ago, lkv said:

Yeah, but if reports come (and we need to wait a few more days to get clarity), and the IO's at the border start enforcing the Police order as I understand it, then you can't exit Thailand and return without insurance. 

 

So you would be somewhat stranded in Thailand.

 

Not important for the ones not travelling frequently, but important for the ones that do.

This whole thing is ridiculous lIMO. Why for -AO and not for -O ? how is that going to solve the Hospital shortfall from unpaid bills. And would implementing this program cost  the Thai government more, than the savings from unpaid bills. 

  Just send an email to the Greek consulate in Tampa, (i have florida residence) to make an appointment and initiate the process for Greek citizenship . (was born there but left as a toddler)  . No Visa hustles. and posible be able to buy into their health system (will explore the possibility) . Also the greek embassy still issues income letters, so a Thai option is a litle easier. Just something to look into.

I have being there on vacation often, and both me and the wife love it. (also closer to thailand than the US) , But vacation is one thing and living there is another. Perhaps we will rent something, and live there for a year, see how e like it.Will be easier for our Thai family to come and visit as in Greece, (impossible in the US)

[lkv]

17 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I believe, someone like SpokaneAl who just entered once the new policy took effect on a pre-Oct. 31 issued OA visa could remain in Thailand, if he wanted, for the entire initial one year permission to stay he received and not have to worry about insurance.

 

If he then left Thailand just prior to his one year permission expiring and then re-entered in order to activate a final additional one-year permission under his original pre-Oct. 31 O-A visa, I don't think it's at all clear yet what would happen with the insurance requirement on that subsequent entry.

You are assuming people stay stuck in Thailand for 12 months?

 

Example:

 

John entered Oct 29 using a non O-A. He was granted a permission of stay of 12 months.

 

Mid November, John decides he would like to go to Vietnam for the weekend.

 

He stays in Vietnam 15 Nov to 18 Nov.

 

On 18 November, John comes back to Thailand, hoping he receives a permission of stay until 16 Nov 2020.

 

However, because it's his second entry already, he must prove he has insurance, and will be granted a permission of stay according to the length of his insurance, not longer than 12 months.

 

If no insurance, John is denied entry.

 

Unfortunately for John, he already has a multiple entry non O-A visa, valid for 12 months, so no consulate will issue him with any other visa, such as TR or Non O.

 

And he cannot enter visa exempt either. 

 

So John must change passport before he exits Thailand, otherwise John will have no other option but to buy insurance or be denied entry.

 

Edited November 2, 2019 by lkv

[rickudon]

5 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

What Immigration Office was involved in that?  When did it happen?

 

Udon Thani. Date not sure. Probably within the last  7 days. The person is now considering if he should return (with wife) to the USA in the long term. He already had health insurance, but not on the IO's approved list .....

[Andrew Dwyer]

4 hours ago, Huckenfell said:

I am asking this because i am a little confused. Are you saying that you got your O-A 13 years ago and have just got annual extensions ever since by getting the re-entry visa and doing a border run ?

You asked a similar question to this of another poster about 20 hours ago !

I answered your question on post #114.

[britishjohn]

3 hours ago, lkv said:

Come on Max. You cannot kill the non O-A visa during its validity, as you well know.

 

You can kill an extension of stay that way. Although, people that got a multi reentry permit are sort of f###ed.

 

By the way, Cambridge dictionary states: 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/dictionary.cambridge.org/amp/english/overseas

 

overseas

 

in, from, or to other countries

 

 

I am on OA in my second year of permission to stay and I have a me re entry permit. 

What is to stop me leaving Thailand a few days before my re entry permit expires and then flying somewhere to apply to an O ? Surely my OA has been killed then ?