Phuket probe into dive tour deaths to target Try Dive, freelance instructors

[rooster59]

Phuket probe into dive tour deaths to target Try Dive, freelance instructors 

By Tanyaluk Sakoot

 

Vice Governor Supoj Rotreuang Na Nongkhai at the meeting on dive tour safety on Thursday (Oct 30). Photo: Tanyaluk Sakoot
 

PHUKET: Chalong Police Chief Col Terdtoon Soisukphaphan has confirmed that Island Wonders Co Ltd, the company involved in the incident that saw a South Korean tourist and Thai dive instructor both drown at Koh Racha last month, will be charged for not having the requisite mandatory accident insurance required by law.

 

South Korean tourist Sunghyun Cho, 37, was on a dive tour to see coral reefs at Ao Lah, the northernmost bay on the east side of the island, on Oct 19 when he began moving frantically as if experiencing breathing difficulties, according to initial reports.

 

Pongsathorn Madnui, the 34-year-old Thai dive instructor leading Mr Cho on his dive, went to Mr Cho’s assistance, but both men “collapsed” before reaching the surface.

Full story: https://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-probe-into-dive-tour-deaths-to-target-try-dive-freelance-instructors-73466.php#e01PDuqTU1ygxbeg.97

 

-- © Copyright Phuket News 2019-11-02

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[mok199]

He does not look happy.....SOM NAM NHA DUDE

[Deli]

Trust us: tourists are safe in Thailand !

[Thian]

1 hour ago, mok199 said:

He does not look happy.....SOM NAM NHA DUDE

The vice governor can't help it...

[Oziex1]

Worried about insurance as usual, no proactive measures just concern for who gets to pay for the loss of life.

[BritManToo]

Very strange that the instructor and the diver both died within minutes of each other.

Carbon monoxide in the air is the only reason I can think of.

But that would have been obvious from their lip and nail colour & deformation.

Edited November 2, 2019 by BritManToo

[KKr]

38 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Very strange that the instructor and the diver both died within minutes of each other.

Carbon monoxide in the air is the only reason I can think of.

But that would have been obvious from their lip and nail colour & deformation.

agree, likely contaminated air, that the more experienced diver got hit a few minutes later supports that idea.
what about the other divers on this tour, same batch of air or not ?
Was their air checked (as well ? )
does the coroner read TV ?

[ChrisY1]

Obviously, Phuket has no inspectors that can do random inspections of a company' documentation....like normal places.

Inspections usually conducted after an incident as normal.

[stevenl]

23 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Very strange that the instructor and the diver both died within minutes of each other.

Carbon monoxide in the air is the only reason I can think of.

But that would have been obvious from their lip and nail colour & deformation.

 

23 hours ago, KKr said:

agree, likely contaminated air, that the more experienced diver got hit a few minutes later supports that idea.
what about the other divers on this tour, same batch of air or not ?
Was their air checked (as well ? )
does the coroner read TV ?

See posts in the earlier thread about this.

Customer panicked, 'instructor' didn't know what to do and it all went wrong.

In addition, the 'instructor' had a big bruise in his face, so maybe hit by tank of the customer.

[CNXexpat]

I guess the South Korean had no diver certificate and the dive company was not interested in it. 

[stevenl]

10 minutes ago, CNXexpat said:

I guess the South Korean had no diver certificate and the dive company was not interested in it. 

That is a given. Called discover scuba diving, where people without certificate try diving.

[KKr]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

 

See posts in the earlier thread about this.

Customer panicked, 'instructor' didn't know what to do and it all went wrong.

In addition, the 'instructor' had a big bruise in his face, so maybe hit by tank of the customer.

did not see those posts,
however as the Guest diver was said to be "experienced" have no reason to believe he would panic at 7 meters, unless caught in an out-of-air state while breathing and trying to get up asap while passing out, and to drowsy already to just drop the reg going up.
whether the instructor was hit by a tank or had similar breathing issues, cannot say, can only offer a possibility that looks plausible. 
 

[stevenl]

2 minutes ago, KKr said:

did not see those posts,
however as the Guest diver was said to be "experienced" have no reason to believe he would panic at 7 meters, unless caught in an out-of-air state while breathing and trying to get up asap while passing out, and to drowsy already to just drop the reg going up.
whether the instructor was hit by a tank or had similar breathing issues, cannot say, can only offer a possibility that looks plausible. 
 

Not too late to look for that thread.

Customer was not certified, instructor was not certified as such as well.

[KKr]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Not too late to look for that thread.

Customer was not certified, instructor was not certified as such as well.

Thank you for elaborating.

both not certified is a recipe for disaster.
according to the article, apparently the guest's wife mentioned he was experienced. 
A rescue level certified diver, should have been in a position to take the guest up. 
let them both RiP and sleuthing be done by Authorities.

[hotchilli]

On 11/2/2019 at 10:20 AM, rooster59 said:

will be charged for not having the requisite mandatory accident insurance required by law.

Charged with what, not having insurance or

Double manslaughter?

[ChipButty]

Not knowing anything about the diving world. who is going to be liable here?

[KKr]

1 hour ago, ChipButty said:

Not knowing anything about the diving world. who is going to be liable here?

I'd say the organisers, for a moment ignoring the "here" at the end of your question.
* Firstly they knowingly provide diving kit to uncertified people so they can generate revenue, and hence have an implied responsibility. (why otherwise would they be obliged to have a insurance for their Guests.).
* Then, they organise a tour where newbies and uncertified people go diving, apparently without taking proper safety precautions.
* Furthermore, there is a question mark whether, if any at all,  a prudent number of certified dive masters and instructors or directors were on this trip. (if I remember correctly, 30 years after Rescue certification, at least one Dive master or higher, for two newbie divers was recommended).

Now to the "here" i.e. the defence:
* Divers went voluntarily to engage in what is commonly known to be a hazardous activity.
* along with receiving their equipment, they (most likely) have received some instructions and warnings about their activity.
* Moreover, whether this shop was certified by PADI or other organisations is not mentioned, let's assume they were not, so therefore the customers of this shop should have known better.
* There was an accident, apparently a person panicked, we do not know why (Maybe his mask flooded, something an experienced diver would have correctly easily for him.) but in any case the guest were at fault. He should not have panicked, and if panicky or claustrophobic, should not have gone diving.
* The other person apparently tried to help him, did not know how to do that properly, and both sadly perished. (who is culpable for his death? Dive Shop, if he was on the payroll, or the Guests' estate? Or is he liable for not properly helping and saving the Guest?)
* IF there was bad air in the Tanks, trained divers might have spotted the issue while kitting up, and have changed the tank (If there were spares available, or otherwise have refused to dive.) To what extend a diving shop would be deemed culpable I cannot say.

I do not know Thai Law, but I really wonder whether in the legal environment here involuntary manslaughter, or at least negligence leading to death, would apply in this case. (Assumably hence, the charge related to an expired insurance.)

 

[ChipButty]

5 minutes ago, KKr said:

I'd say the organisers, for a moment ignoring the "here" at the end of your question.
* Firstly they knowingly provide diving kit to uncertified people so they can generate revenue, and hence have an implied responsibility. (why otherwise would they be obliged to have a insurance for their Guests.).
* Then, they organise a tour where newbies and uncertified people go diving, apparently without taking proper safety precautions.
* Furthermore, there is a question mark whether, if any at all,  a prudent number of certified dive masters and instructors or directors were on this trip. (if I remember correctly, 30 years after Rescue certification, at least one Dive master or higher, for two newbie divers was recommended).

Now to the "here" i.e. the defence:
* Divers went voluntarily to engage in what is commonly known to be a hazardous activity.
* along with receiving their equipment, they (most likely) have received some instructions and warnings about their activity.
* Moreover, whether this shop was certified by PADI or other organisations is not mentioned, let's assume they were not, so therefore the customers of this shop should have known better.
* There was an accident, apparently a person panicked, we do not know why (Maybe his mask flooded, something an experienced diver would have correctly easily for him.) but in any case the guest were at fault. He should not have panicked, and if panicky or claustrophobic, should not have gone diving.
* The other person apparently tried to help him, did not know how to do that properly, and both sadly perished. (who is culpable for his death? Dive Shop, if he was on the payroll, or the Guests' estate? Or is he liable for not properly helping and saving the Guest?)
* IF there was bad air in the Tanks, trained divers might have spotted the issue while kitting up, and have changed the tank (If there were spares available, or otherwise have refused to dive.) To what extend a diving shop would be deemed culpable I cannot say.

I do not know Thai Law, but I really wonder whether in the legal environment here involuntary manslaughter, or at least negligence leading to death, would apply in this case. (Assumably hence, the charge related to an expired insurance.)

 

Thanks for that info, I get people asking me which dive shops to go to I just say I dont know who to recommend

[KKr]

3 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

Thanks for that info, I get people asking me which dive shops to go to I just say I dont know who to recommend

Cannot help you with that, I did not do a lot of diving in Thailand, don't like the crowds.
Having said that, usually any < PADI Dive Center > will be good. This are the shops that can train Dive-Masters and have Instructors on staff.
Best are "PADI 5 Star Development centers" that can train Instructors, and reason being they must have a Course Director on staff, and that is a tough qualification to get.
In these shops, one can be reasonably sure that at least there are people in the staff that know what they are doing.
(https://www.padi.com/padi-dive-centers/business-levels refers.)
They may be a bit more expensive, but better safe then sorry.
Have fun !