A bridge to far: retirement hoops to jump through

[JTXR]

I had visited Thailand many times and loved it, so decide to retired here.  I came on a Non-Imm O-A three years ago.

I'm not blaming anyone but, after I came, in the past three years.....

1) I can no longer get an income affidavit from my embassy (even though I can show valid evidence of official state pension income).
2) CW now wants a TM-30 either from landlords, family, friends, or myself every time I change where I spend the night.
3) TI may in future want me to purchase overpriced and essentially worthless health cover (I'm over 65) the next time I extend my permission to stay.

As I say, I'm not blaming anyone.  Things changes; that's life.  But if #3 above proves to be the case, it is a bridge too far.  Just speaking for myself personally, all together, in the past three years Thailand has become a less attractive place to retire compared to the other alternatives.

[baansgr]

Time to move on to pastures new, no point in stringing it out any longer. Many have made the decision already....plenty of other countries to choose from, all with their pros and con's...do your research first

[Beggar]

How can anybody retire in a country where you might not be able to fulfill the visa requirements because of health insurance reasons? The name "retirement visa" or "retirement extension" is misleading. It should be called long stay visa. 

[Puchaiyank]

The direction this visa process is headed should run up a red flag for anyone whose commonsense is still more important in making lifs's decisions than a Thai female's honey-spot...

 

Or, hang around and see what other asinine visa schemes they can come up with to rid the country of Western influence...

 

It has become more than just visas...there is a cultural shift going on that is going to make living in Thailand uncomfortable for white ex-pats...IMHO...????

[BertM]

1 hour ago, JTXR said:

I had visited Thailand many times and loved it, so decide to retired here.  I came on a Non-Imm O-A three years ago.

I'm not blaming anyone but, after I came, in the past three years.....

1) I can no longer get an income affidavit from my embassy (even though I can show valid evidence of official state pension income).
2) CW now wants a TM-30 either from landlords, family, friends, or myself every time I change where I spend the night.
3) TI may in future want me to purchase overpriced and essentially worthless health cover (I'm over 65) the next time I extend my permission to stay.

As I say, I'm not blaming anyone.  Things changes; that's life.  But if #3 above proves to be the case, it is a bridge too far.  Just speaking for myself personally, all together, in the past three years Thailand has become a less attractive place to retire compared to the other alternatives.

Very well stated... if, in the future, pre-Oct 31 O-A visa holders are required to purchase insurance, then you have the option of getting a Non-O provided they don't require insurance for those too. I had a Non-O and am extending based on marriage, but if I'm ever required to get insurance, then it will be a bridge too far for me also. I will not be forced to buy another insurance when I have life-time coverage from my previous employer. I will simply leave with no hard feelings... As you said, things change...

Edited November 8, 2019 by BertM

[Jingthing]

OP hit it on the head. Potential new people should think twice and then think again. 

 

People already here if you're unencumbered with assets especially housing and or close relationships can breathe easier as they can more easily leave on short notice.

 

More encumbered people also the very aged with not much in the home country to go back to are potentially in this deep. 

[GeorgeCross]

42 minutes ago, Beggar said:

How can anybody retire in a country where you might not be able to fulfill the visa requirements because of health insurance reasons? The name "retirement visa" or "retirement extension" is misleading. It should be called long stay visa. 

 

more importantly how can anyone leave their long term security in the hands of a for-profit private company. if they stop renewing your insurance after a certain age.. its home time. and i'm damn sure there will be a clause in the fine print saying they can do exactly that

 

 

[GeorgeCross]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

OP hit it on the head. Potential new people should think twice and then think again. 

 

People already here if you're unencumbered with assets especially housing and or close relationships can breathe easier as they can more easily leave on short notice.

 

More encumbered people also the very aged with not much in the home country to go back to are potentially in this deep. 

 

not necessarily i am was heavily encumbered but so far we've sold 2 of our properties here with just one to go and i've already started building up my assets back home. in the meantime gonna milk as much global tax free income out of this country as i can then cash it all in with a very tidy currency exchange rate to boot ????

 

gotta know when its time to cash in those chips, thailand its been a blast but you are just looking a bit tatty these days honey..

 

 

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

not necessarily i am was heavily encumbered but so far we've sold 2 of our properties here with just one to go and i've already started building up my assets back home. in the meantime gonna milk as much global tax free income out of this country as i can then cash it all in with a very tidy currency exchange rate to boot ????

 

gotta know when its time to cash in those chips, thailand its been a blast but you are just looking a bit tatty these days honey..

 

 

Yes of course not necessarily. Happy to hear that your exit plan is working out for you. 

[GeorgeCross]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes of course not necessarily. Happy to hear that your exit plan is working out for you. 

 

thanks and if i'm honest i cheated a bit and started rebuilding bridges after the retirement financials were not grandfathered. the change of tone was clear to me then and the illusion of 'grandfathering' shattered along with the realisation that long stay visitor means exactly that. all the retirement stuff is pure BS, we are only ever 1 year away from a trip home no matter how integrated we think we are.

 

i must say it feels awesome to regain control of my families future again. any anxiety we had over our future here is now long gone

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by GeorgeCross

[holy cow cm]

It is not only the retiree but also the legitimate tourists who come and go a couple to several times a year because they can. But honestly, the insurance is a scam as is set only to Thai insurance companies and is useless. They should have a special allowance so that the older folk can have a chance to stay here. Knowing how they seem to bite at all the corners, it will be only a matter of time before the O gets hit from everyone doing the jump and they have stated at some point or the other it will be inclusive for anyone over 50 to have. But I would not stop there, it will probably encompass everyone and it really looks and seem they don't care about destroying families or about what you have purchased here while being legal.

 

I would hope a light of divinity comes to them and they enact better more compassionate ways to treat people, all people. I do not for one second believe that the numbers on their books of hospital unpaid bills come from the retired or long term stay foreigners. Impossible. This drive seems to be funding someone's pockets or ulterior plan.

 

My thoughts would be for the younger ones to get insurance at the lower rate so it can carry on to your later years before you cannot get insurance. We won't be using it anyway so it is throw away money..

Edited November 8, 2019 by holy cow cm

[Goethe]

I for one do not for one second believe that the numbers on their books of hospital unpaid bills come from the retired or long term stay foreigners. Impossible."

 

On the contrary: there are many retired farang in Thailand "living on the edge". A few months ago a friend of mine spent the last 6 weeks of his life in a public hospital. The bill came to 160 000 baht. He had a UK pension that paid him approx. 25 000 per month. After one week in  hospital he was out of money. Fortunately for the hospital, his friends paid the bill.

[NCC1701A]

people are all different. i like chaos and uncertainty.

 

it was knowing I was only being granted permission to stay or "retire" one year at a time that sort of appealed to me.

 

Anytime some one wanted to sell me a house or get married I would say "Not sure about next year."

 

 

 

 

[holy cow cm]

2 minutes ago, Goethe said:

I for one do not for one second believe that the numbers on their books of hospital unpaid bills come from the retired or long term stay foreigners. Impossible."

 

On the contrary: there are many retired farang in Thailand "living on the edge". A few months ago a friend of mine spent the last 6 weeks of his life in a public hospital. The bill came to 160 000 baht. He had a UK pension that paid him approx. 25 000 per month. After one week in  hospital he was out of money. Fortunately for the hospital, his friends paid the bill.

Still don't buy the amount of unpaid bills stated. It is overly inflated.

 

160,000 / 6 = 26,666. So where did all his money go to? Rent? And if that is the case then living on the edge like he was, he would have had to leave as well as had not enough funds in the bank or funds coming from abroad to satisfy their requirements. He may have been a nice person, but shoe stringing it here is definitely over. Nice for his friends to pay. 

[Thailand]

Concur with the OP, currently in the difficult process of trying to sell off assets here so that when they finally make it "even more uncomfortable" to be here we can opt out.

Not yet in that comfortable position but working on it.

[LivinLOS]

2 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

It has become more than just visas...there is a cultural shift going on that is going to make living in Thailand uncomfortable for white ex-pats...IMHO...????

They only want millionaire type retirees.. The squeeze disproportionally effects those who have to watch tier budget.. 

 

Its those 'quality' tourists they have been wet dreaming about for decades. 

[kingofthemountain]

2 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

the change of tone was clear to me then and the illusion of 'grandfathering' shattered along with the realisation that long stay visitor means exactly that. all the retirement stuff is pure BS, we are only ever 1 year away from a trip home no matter how integrated we think we are.

True

and you even not have 1 year

don't forget the every 90 day probation control 

if for some reason they do not want you anymore

at least 4 times in a year they have the opportunity to 

 just give you 7 days for leave the country

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by kingofthemountain

[Momofarang]

38 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

They only want millionaire type retirees.. The squeeze disproportionally effects those who have to watch tier budget.. 

Millionaires? Dunno, I reckon someone has had a look at Malaysia's M2H and said "We want this too", but they are way too stupid and lazy to implement it in an orderly manner.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Momofarang

[LivinLOS]

2 minutes ago, Momofarang said:

Millionaires? Dunno, I reckon someone has had a look at Malaysia's M2H and said "We want this too", but they are way too stupid and lazy to implement it in an orderly manner.

They would never support something like MM2H.. 

Owning land.. owning 2 homes.. importing one car tax free.. Resident card with local price on all attractions.. For a couple of mil baht equivalent.. 

 

If only.. 

[steve187]

4 hours ago, JTXR said:

1)I can no longer get an income affidavit from my embassy (even though I can show valid evidence of official state pension income).
2) CW now wants a TM-30 either from landlords, family, friends, or myself every time I change where I spend the night.
3) TI may in future want me to purchase overpriced and essentially worthless health cover (I'm over 65) the next time I extend my permission to stay.

1) income can be proved by monthly bank transfers

2) is a tm30 really that hard for someone to do, and its the owner of the properties responsibility, can be done on line, and how many offices enforce report an overnight stay in a hotel

3) just change to a non 'o' and extend from that

[The Man Who Sold the World]

Straws and the camels back... or, if it walks like a duck... 

 

The past few years have brought many, many, regulatory changes. Some of which are seriously inconveniencing. And,   there is no reason to believe that the next few years will not bring additional regulatory changes. 

 

The country of Thailand has laws and regulations concerning foreign visitors. The regulations must be complied with. It is entirely up to the individual if the positive aspects of the country of Thailand justify compliance with the regulatory requirements to remain here legally.

 

Regardless of your personal choice and ultimate decision(s) I wish good luck to all.

[fourpack]

As I live here quite happily.

Health insurance for O-A only as I have read so no issue there.

Jump through hoops well maybe step over them. 

Affidavit for income been gone a while get over it. Do it right with transfers no issue (that I have had).

Tm30 NADA don't do it not required by my immigration office. 90 days easy 200bht to my local shop keeper she does it for me.

All these "I've been refused entry"

On here 99% work of Fiction to stir the masses I believe.

Have friends come over from UK 

at least 3 sometimes 4 times a year on 30 day VE no issues at all.

Leave no not for me. There is no so called obstacles that are insurmountable with P&P.

[New beginnings]

Like many people on here I have also become concerned at the change in immigration policy over the last few years. No longer able to use combination income method, unable to use Embassy letter despite having prove of pensions received and TM30, 90 day notification requirements. Whilst I can meet the new requirements I certainly no longer feel welcome in Thailand. Currently extension based on retirement and, whilst it is O and not OA, I suspect insurance may be made a condition in the future. Prior to my 60th Birthday took out policy with AETNA which provides 5 million baht of inpatient cover and could be renewed for life, no age limit. The thought that this existing policy may not be acceptable as it does not include a somewhat derisory 40k baht outpatient cover was the final straw. Flights booked and moving to Cambodia 18 November - can’t wait.

[Toosetinmyways]

Is 500,000 baht a bridge too far for a 5 year peace of mind Elite Visa. Equals 274 baht a day. Give up 2 beers a day and sleep easy at night.

[kingofthemountain]

1 hour ago, fourpack said:

As I live here quite happily.

Health insurance for O-A only as I have read so no issue there.

Jump through hoops well maybe step over them. 

Affidavit for income been gone a while get over it. Do it right with transfers no issue (that I have had).

Tm30 NADA don't do it not required by my immigration office. 90 days easy 200bht to my local shop keeper she does it for me.

All these "I've been refused entry"

On here 99% work of Fiction to stir the masses I believe.

Have friends come over from UK 

at least 3 sometimes 4 times a year on 30 day VE no issues at all.

Leave no not for me. There is no so called obstacles that are insurmountable with P&P.

I am happy for you but don't see what value bring your comment in this topic.

And just wait until the next wave hit you (1 year, 2 or 5 who know?)

and then you can back here and scream with us

 

[kingofthemountain]

57 minutes ago, Toosetinmyways said:

Is 500,000 baht a bridge too far for a 5 year peace of mind Elite Visa. Equals 274 baht a day. Give up 2 beers a day and sleep easy at night.

What garantee do you have elite visa are not going to be impacted too by the compulsory insurance

in the next years or in the next months? At the moment none.

[MeePeeMai]

3 hours ago, holy cow cm said:

My thoughts would be for the younger ones to get insurance at the lower rate so it can carry on to your later years before you cannot get insurance. We won't be using it anyway so it is throw away money..

 

Ditto but just make sure you have budgeted in the regular increases in coverage (i.e. mandatory 400k/40k to something like a 800/80k policy etc) and the increase in insurance premiums (as you age) or you'll be in the same boat as many here are in now.

[john terry1001]

2 hours ago, steve187 said:

just change to a non 'o' and extend from that

That's not an (easy) option for many here.

[The Man Who Sold the World]

Realize that IF the mandatory insurance requirement is enforced - there are some persons who will NOT be able to get insurance - actually "uninsurable" persons, age, pre-existing conditions, etc. Who will be forced to leave because they cannot comply with the "new" regulation.

 

And, if the regulation is "expanded" more persons will be forced out. 

[holy cow cm]

16 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

 

Ditto but just make sure you have budgeted in the regular increases in coverage (i.e. mandatory 400k/40k to something like a 800/80k policy etc) and the increase in insurance premiums (as you age) or you'll be in the same boat as many here are in now.

YEP. I'm good to go for another year but will approach it in about 8 more months.