Thailand’s PM insists military conscription is still needed

[Pilotman]

19 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Because I assume that many of the posters know people whose sons were conscripted. Members of their wives'/girlfriends' families perhaps. Or even their own children had to go through the rigmarole of postponement while they studied before finally having to go through the draw. Just because people are not Thai does not mean they do not have a horse in the race.  

I said, bar those with kids here. When all is said and done, some time in the Military will do many Thai boys a world of good, They may get some much needed discipline into their lives , good food and some exercise.  It is not all doom and gloom, despite the many uninformed comments here.  

Edited November 29, 2019 by Pilotman

[metempsychotic]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

What the nation really needs to do, is to stop listening to anything this man has to say. When was the last time he said something reasonable and sensible? When was the last time he proposed something that was of benefit to the masses, and actually stuck with it, rather than his usual daily rants and promises, that materialize into nothingness?

 

 

Leave trump out of it. 

[simtemple]

The sole purpose of the Thai Army is to protect the Bangkok rich from the Isaan poor. The Genalissimo must fear the political unrest which is presently spreading throughout the world: 21 countries at last count. 

 

 

 

[johnarth]

6 hours ago, AlexRich said:

To the man with a hammer every problem looks like a nail ... a military guy thinks that "conscription" is the solution to a country whose borders are surrounded by ... friendly neighbours?

 

It makes sense for Israel and South Korea ... but not Thailand.

 

but what about those 10 insurgents that keep murdering Thai army personal according to the gov. they come from another country

[unamazedloso]

The whole thing is just pretty gay in the 21st century. There is no real alternate excuse apart from being so....

Aint no wars, thais wouldnt stand a chance anyway, ypu already got crowd control trucks and people to drive them im sure. Hey douche bag, leave those kids alone!

[JAG]

37 minutes ago, simtemple said:

The sole purpose of the Thai Army is to protect the Bangkok rich from the Isaan poor. The Genalissimo must fear the political unrest which is presently spreading throughout the world: 21 countries at last count. 

 

 

 

Whilst I agree with you, there's a fatal flaw in that plan - or one which could well prove fatal if the plan were ever to be put into action. One which the greater and infinitely more bemedalled military minds than mine who are in in charge of it seem to have missed.

 

Most of this army is conscripted (unwillingly) from the Issan poor.

 

As fire orders go:" At your Mum and Dad in front of you, ten rounds rapid, go on!" is unlikely to be well received!

 

Edited November 29, 2019 by JAG

[randy723]

Yes, he needs his military to keep his dictatorship going. Without the military, he could not be the dictator he is

[newatthis]

1 hour ago, GarryP said:

Yeah, but the generals' gardens are bigger in Thailand. 

And, with the banning of all those poisons someone has a lot of weeding to do.????‍????

[Enoon]

 

It has been the case that many successful revolutions were only achieved when military units joined the armed forces opposing the government.

 

That tends to happen more often with conscript armies than with professional ones.

 

Conscript armies also tend to perform less well against "committed" opposition (exceptions being such as Greek "citizen" and early Roman Republic armies).

 

Long Live "El Supremo"!

 

 

Edited November 29, 2019 by Enoon

[law ling]

Well, if the PM "insists" then that's the end of the matter.

After basic training there' a second ballot or allocation to determine who will:

1. Serve as servants to officers, their families, aged parents, chicken farms and other business interests.
2. Be quietly let go home, on the proviso they leave their ATM card and PIN with the general.
3. Remain in barracks marking time, but at risk of sadistic brutalization by mid-level officers, even unto death in some reported cases.
4. Tour of duty down south.

There is just too much money in their budget -  available for skimming at every level - too much wealth at stake: so be warned anyone who tries to change the system.

[30la]

Never ask 100% military if it makes sense to eliminate the obligatory military service, the answer will always be NO !!!
The only hope of any real soldier is to participate in a war!

[claffey]

7 hours ago, AlexRich said:

To the man with a hammer every problem looks like a nail ... a military guy thinks that "conscription" is the solution to a country whose borders are surrounded by ... friendly neighbours?

 

It makes sense for Israel and South Korea ... but not Thailand.

 

Actually there is a disputed border area with Cambodia and shots have been fired in recent years. Also the insurgency in the Southern provinces of Thailand has led to thousands of deaths in the last 15 years. I am against conscription too but your post is misleading.

 

If you add in the random bombings and political unrest in Bangkok, over the years, its apparent that Thailand has many security issues. Troops are also used in natural disasasters such as the Tsunami (2004) and floods of 2011.

[Moo 2]

Fancy having a General being against conscription. World wide women have been complaining

of not being at the same level as the men, here there would the chance of a life time.

2 years of army duty, including free haircut above the ears! Men could stay home and earning

a descent living. 

[Aussiepeter]

I can advise all firsthand that the numbers of 'available' or 'on call' troops in Thailand is nothing like the numbers crunched by the good general. More like the dodgy numbers put out by TAT. In 1999/2000 I lived for a year in a small village just north of Chiang Dao - about 100klm north of CM. The nearby army camp was huge, but I never saw more than thirty or forty troops and the guard house was nothing more than a lean-to open on two sides, with a couple of M60 machine guns on its' counter. Never more than two on duty, sometimes none to be seen at all ! Each evening I'd share a sherbet or two with my neighbour, a Thai guy who told me he had a timber business. One day, he appeared in uniform as a corporal. When I asked him what he was doing he told me he was actually a corporal in the army, but simply paid his boss (I'm guessing a Sgt?) 2 thousand baht a month "to not be there" ! He said " lots of us soldiers do it - we all pay the boss but we have to turn up sometimes, like today, because there is a big parade for some general who is coming from Bangkok to inspect the troops". I bet the said general would have got a huge shock, had he come unannounced a week early. I watched the parade from the highway - over six hundred men. TIT  

[JAG]

28 minutes ago, claffey said:

Actually there is a disputed border area with Cambodia and shots have been fired in recent years. Also the insurgency in the Southern provinces of Thailand has led to thousands of deaths in the last 15 years. I am against conscription too but your post is misleading.

 

If you add in the random bombings and political unrest in Bangkok, over the years, its apparent that Thailand has many security issues. Troops are also used in natural disasasters such as the Tsunami (2004) and floods of 2011.

I stand to be corrected, but I have the impression that the most recent "border incident" with Cambodia was largely provoked by political activists closely allied to the Army. The trouble " down south" is to a very large extent handled by "Rangers" and a variety of other locally recruited paramilitary militias - that sort of Counter Insurgency soldiering is not regarded with any enthusiasm by the military higherarchy. Troops can be used in natural disasters, but the Thai Army is chronically short of transport, so only locally based units are available.

 

The main reason for the (on paper) impressive strength is that it justifies an (on paper) impressive number of General Officers!

[Baerboxer]

6 hours ago, JAG said:

1. You end up with a làrge army which you can neither train or deploy, and which is largely made up of people who don't want to be there. Most of the energy skills and experience of those few who do want to be soldiers is devoted to continuously trying to train a succession of unwilling conscripts who are just counting the days until their discharge.

 

2. You still have chavs, it is just that a lot of them are fitter.

 

 

Indeed. Would it not be better if "conscription" became national service and the young people could chose from a number of social beneficial programs? The young people and society would benefit.

 

But conscription here seems to be to provide lackeys for the seniors. 

 

[billd766]

8 hours ago, leeneeds said:

The starting point on removal of conscription,  to attract  would be  military minded men and women. would be a decent wage,

 expulsion of the vulgar intimidation that currently takes place.

And the opportunity to get decent trade training and perhaps further education.

 

The UK did away with conscription at the ens of 1960, some 60 years ago and they ARE fighting in conflicts and minor wars.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/top-heavy-british-army-halves-number-of-generals-j9sj6b2kp

 

Britain’s army is getting stronger because it has nearly halved the number of generals, the head of the armed forces has said.

Responding to criticism that the army is top-heavy, General Sir Nick Carter said that the total number of starred officers — brigadiers and generals — had been reduced by nearly 40 per cent, from 141 to 85, during the past five years.

Over the same period, he said, the proportion of generals to troops had improved to about 1 to 2,400, and the number of two-star headquarters staff had fallen from nine to five.

 

 

[billd766]

3 hours ago, Odisan said:

Imagine trying to run a coup without enough troops...

Imagine trying to run a coup when the troops say "no way".

[Fred white]

8 hours ago, leeneeds said:

The starting point on removal of conscription,  to attract  would be  military minded men and women. would be a decent wage,

 expulsion of the vulgar intimidation that currently takes place.

And job training to learn skills they can use when they get out

[JAG]

41 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Indeed. Would it not be better if "conscription" became national service and the young people could chose from a number of social beneficial programs? The young people and society would benefit.

 

But conscription here seems to be to provide lackeys for the seniors. 

 

Yes it would. West Germany had something along those lines in the 1980s I believe, young men with a genuine deep held conscientious objection to military service could serve in a variety of other areas. An excellent idea.

 

Here of course your observation about lackeys for the generals holds true, together I surmise with a belief that a large army must be an effective one. All military experience since the 1940 Blitzkrieg demonstrates that a large immobile army in static linear defensive positions will always be defeated by a smaller mobile force using mobility, armour, firepower and concentration of force to fight the battle at a point and time of their choosing. Once the "line" is broken it is game over for the linear defence strategy. The fact that 90% of them will be sitting in defensive positions ignored by the enemy, and unable to react to something happening 50km away is simply not understood.

[spidermike007]

3 hours ago, madmitch said:

Without trying to support Prayut (or even steven100) I would say that his infrastructure projects are of benefit to the masses, as was the shop eat spend programme, whatever it's called. Now whether they warrant the sums paid is a different matter. I would however agree with your comment that most of what he says is not "reasonable and sensible".

 

Also are you a zero short on your army figures?

No. My point is that with an army of only 50,000 Thailand could accomplish nearly everything it needs to do. Short of being able to amass the annual fortune it does with infinitely more soldiers. Other than that, I just do not see anything positive that they accomplish for society here. 

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, JAG said:

Whilst I agree with you, there's a fatal flaw in that plan - or one which could well prove fatal if the plan were ever to be put into action. One which the greater and infinitely more bemedalled military minds than mine who are in in charge of it seem to have missed.

 

Most of this army is conscripted (unwillingly) from the Issan poor.

 

As fire orders go:" At your Mum and Dad in front of you, ten rounds rapid, go on!" is unlikely to be well received!

 

While that sentiment is true, I do think there will come a point in time, quite soon one hopes, where the population will rise up against the incredibly corrupt and incompetent rule of the army. When that happens, it will likely be led by the youth of Thailand, who I do have some faith in. Will the army be willing and able to resist the population, should it rise up against them in mass? I do not think so. I believe they will be ingloriously shown the door, and one can only hope for countless trials of the generals, for dozens of counts of untold corruption. 

[Srikcir]

John Draper, director of the Social Survey Centre at Khon Kaen University, and a researcher on Thailand’s military: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/04/red-black-experiencing-thailand-military-drafting-190417015605789.html

• “Thailand's military draft should be abolished as it supports a feudal, bloated military system with some of the highest general-to-soldier ratios in the world.”
• The government should instead develop the conscription lottery into a national service programme that would engage in rural development, such as building and renovating school buildings in remote areas and operating programmes that could ultimately help poorer people and the economy.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

While that sentiment is true, I do think there will come a point in time, quite soon one hopes, where the population will rise up against the incredibly corrupt and incompetent rule of the army. When that happens, it will likely be led by the youth of Thailand, who I do have some faith in. Will the army be willing and able to resist the population, should it rise up against them in mass? I do not think so. I believe they will be ingloriously shown the door, and one can only hope for countless trials of the generals, for dozens of counts of untold corruption. 

I do hope that you are correct but then I think of generals like Apirat who would be only too glad to take on the people and murder them, because that is what killing unarmed civilians amounts to.

[Dap]

3 hours ago, Srikcir said:

John Draper, director of the Social Survey Centre at Khon Kaen University, and a researcher on Thailand’s military: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/04/red-black-experiencing-thailand-military-drafting-190417015605789.html

• “Thailand's military draft should be abolished as it supports a feudal, bloated military system with some of the highest general-to-soldier ratios in the world.”
• The government should instead develop the conscription lottery into a national service programme that would engage in rural development, such as building and renovating school buildings in remote areas and operating programmes that could ultimately help poorer people and the economy.

Makes every bit of good sense.

[Huckenfell]

Why do Thailand even need a large military force. If they were ever invaded, we know what would happen as it has in the past.

 

[Huckenfell]

7 hours ago, billd766 said:

And the opportunity to get decent trade training and perhaps further education.

 

The UK did away with conscription at the ens of 1960, some 60 years ago and they ARE fighting in conflicts and minor wars.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/top-heavy-british-army-halves-number-of-generals-j9sj6b2kp

 

Britain’s army is getting stronger because it has nearly halved the number of generals, the head of the armed forces has said.

Responding to criticism that the army is top-heavy, General Sir Nick Carter said that the total number of starred officers — brigadiers and generals — had been reduced by nearly 40 per cent, from 141 to 85, during the past five years.

Over the same period, he said, the proportion of generals to troops had improved to about 1 to 2,400, and the number of two-star headquarters staff had fallen from nine to five.

 

 

So seeing that you are so well informed, can you please tell us how many Generals etc., that Thailand has got.  Maybe even the USA ?

 

[Huckenfell]

15 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Sort out the chavs? Utter nonsense. It empowers working class youth to pursue their criminal aims. It trains the Chavs how to use guns effectively.  It trains the chavs how to fight. It trains the chavs the discipline to work in small gangs, platoons, and how to work together as a team, coordinating,  cooperating,  and following the orders of a gang leader. That is why conscription was stopped inn the UK. The great train robbery was carried out with military efficiency by ex conscripts. Furthermore,  the British generals rejected a conscripted army over a professional volunteer army. The youth were too rebellious,  uncooperative and not scared of the officer class or the system.

What are "Chavs"

 

[Huckenfell]

15 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Sort out the chavs? Utter nonsense. It empowers working class youth to pursue their criminal aims. It trains the Chavs how to use guns effectively.  It trains the chavs how to fight. It trains the chavs the discipline to work in small gangs, platoons, and how to work together as a team, coordinating,  cooperating,  and following the orders of a gang leader. That is why conscription was stopped inn the UK. The great train robbery was carried out with military efficiency by ex conscripts. Furthermore,  the British generals rejected a conscripted army over a professional volunteer army. The youth were too rebellious,  uncooperative and not scared of the officer class or the system.

"Rebellious, uncooperative and scared" did'nt notice that during the Brit National service days.

[Huckenfell]

13 hours ago, dotpoom said:

Or claim that he has.... "bone spurs"?

I knew a reasonably well off family who paid a doctor to certify their son as 'Colour Blind' so he was not conscripted.