Elon Musk's jury to be queried on opinions of billionaires, visitors to Thailand

[snoop1130]

Elon Musk's jury to be queried on opinions of billionaires, visitors to Thailand

By Rachel Parsons

 

FILE PHOTO: SpaceX owner and Tesla CEO Elon Musk arrives on the red carpet for the automobile awards "Das Goldene Lenkrad" (The golden steering wheel) given by a German newspaper in Berlin, Germany, November 12, 2019. REUTERS/Hannibal Hanschke

 

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Potential jurors in the defamation trial of high-tech entrepreneur Elon Musk may be excused from the case if they voice strong feelings about billionaires or people who visit Thailand.

 

Jury selection was set to begin on Tuesday in the civil suit brought against the Tesla Inc chief executive by a British cave explorer who gained fame for his leading role in the rescue of 12 boys and their soccer coach from a flooded cave in Thailand last year.

 

The explorer, Vernon Unsworth, says the billionaire, who also founded private rocket company SpaceX, falsely labeled him “pedo guy” on Twitter and should pay punitive and other damages for harming his reputation.

 

At a pretrial hearing on Monday, U.S. District Judge Stephen Wilson in Los Angeles ruled on several procedural matters and went over ground rules with attorneys for both sides, including the list of questions he will pose during jury selection.

 

In addition to relatively standard queries such as “Have you ever been a party to a lawsuit,” the judge said he would ask prospective jurors some questions unique to the Musk case, including: “Do you have a strong opinion about billionaires?” and “Do you have strong opinions of people who visit or live in Thailand?”

 

Although an affirmative answer does not necessarily ensure that a potential juror would be excused, such questions are designed to discern an individual’s ability to be impartial.

 

The judge will empanel six to 12 jurors, though Wilson said he finds an eight-member panel to be ideal. Opening statements are expected to begin right after jury selection finishes on Tuesday.

 

Musk is slated to be the first witness for the plaintiff’s team once testimony begins.

 

The case stems from an offer Musk made to furnish a mini-submarine from his SpaceX company to help with the cave rescue in July 2018.

 

Unsworth told CNN on July 13, 2018, three days after the rescue was completed, that the offer was a “PR stunt” and that Musk could “stick his submarine where it hurts.”

 

Two days later, Musk lashed out at Unsworth in a series of tweets, including one which called him a “pedo guy.” Musk later apologized for that comment.

 

The judge explained the case hinges on whether a reasonable person would take Musk’s Twitter statement to mean that he was calling Unsworth a pedophile.

 

To win the defamation case, Unsworth needs to show that Musk was negligent in publishing a falsehood that clearly identified the plaintiff and caused him harm. “Actual malice” on Musk’s part does not need to be proven because the judge has deemed Unsworth a private individual rather than a public figure.

 

Although the case does not involve Tesla, Musk’s Twitter habits have long been under close scrutiny, with investors and regulators expressing concerns about his tweets.

 

With 29.8 million followers, Musk’s Twitter account is a major source of publicity for his Palo Alto, California-based electric car company, which does not advertise.

 

On Monday, the judge refused a defense request to reverse a decision allowing Unsworth’s attorneys to introduce an email Musk sent to the news website BuzzFeed in which Musk chided a reporter there to “stop defending child rapists.”

 

Wilson also refused to reverse a ruling that bars plaintiff’s lawyers from introducing Musk’s financial statements, after defense attorneys acknowledged in court that their client has publicly put his net worth at $20 billion.

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-12-03

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[kotsak]

I'm afraid they will find a tough time filling the jury box with such questions.. ????

[Geoffggi]

13 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

“Do you have a strong opinion about billionaires?” and “Do you have strong opinions of people who visit or live in Thailand?”

First part is easy, Yes I want to be one..!!!! and for the second part You need to be one to afford to live in Thailand....LOL

[DoctorG]

With those 2 questions it would be pretty easy to get out of jury selection.

[mikebell]

13 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

people who visit Thailand.

That disqualifies nearly forty million this year alone (if TAT figures are to be believed.)

[webfact]

Elon Musk testifies his 'pedo guy' tweet not meant to be taken literally

By Rachel Parsons and Nichola Groom

 

Elon Musk is shown in a courtroom drawing in court during the trial in a defamation case filed by British cave diver Vernon Unsworth, who is suing the Tesla chief executive for calling him a "pedo guy" in one of a series of tweets, as the case begins in Los Angeles, California, U.S., December 3, 2019. REUTERS/Mona Shafer Edwards

 

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - High-tech entrepreneur Elon Musk testified at his defamation trial on Tuesday that his "pedo guy" Twitter message at the center of the case was not meant to be taken literally and was sent in response to an "unprovoked" insult he received from the man now suing him.

 

Musk, the billionaire chief executive of electric carmaker Tesla Inc, was the first witness called to the stand in the lawsuit brought against him by a British cave diver who gained fame for his lead role in the rescue of 12 boys and their soccer coach from a flooded cave in Thailand last year.

 

The diver, Vernon Unsworth, says Musk, also founder of the rocket company SpaceX, falsely labeled him a pedophile on Twitter and should pay punitive and other damages.

 

The case stems from an offer Musk made to furnish a mini-submarine from SpaceX to assist in the Tham Luang Nang Non cave rescue in July 2018.

 

Unsworth told CNN on July 13, 2018, three days after the rescue was successfully completed, that Musk's offer was a "PR stunt" and that Musk should "stick his submarine where it hurts."

 

Two days later, Musk lashed out at Unsworth in a series of tweets, including one which called the cave diver a "pedo guy." Musk later apologized for the comment, saying the term was a common insult in South Africa where he grew up.

 

Unsworth called the slur a lie that has harmed his reputation.

 

Musk was called to testify by plaintiff's lawyers after a jury was selected to hear the case and the two sides delivered opening statements.

 

Musk said he was merely responding in kind to Unsworth's remarks, a video of which Musk said he watched on Twitter. Those comments were "an unprovoked attack on what was a good-natured attempt to help the kids,” Musk testified. "It was wrong and insulting, and so I insulted him back.”

 

"I thought he (Unsworth) was just some random creepy guy,” Musk added. "I thought at the time that he was unrelated to the rescue.”

 

Pressed under questioning by lawyer Lin Wood, Musk testified that he did not mean for his tweet about Unsworth to be taken literally.

"I assume he did not mean to sodomize me with a submarine ... Just as I didn't literally mean he was a pedophile," he said.

 

U.S. District Judge Stephen Wilson has explained the case hinges on whether a reasonable person would take Musk's Twitter statement to mean that he was calling Unsworth a pedophile.

 

To win the defamation case, Unsworth needs to show that Musk was negligent in publishing a falsehood that clearly identified the plaintiff and caused him harm. "Actual malice" on Musk's part does not need to be proven because the judge has deemed Unsworth a private individual rather than a public figure.

 

MUSK'S TWITTER FOLLOWERS

Although the case does not involve Tesla, Musk's Twitter habits have long been under close scrutiny, with investors and regulators expressing concerns about his tweets.

 

With 29.8 million followers, Musk's Twitter account is a major source of publicity for his Palo Alto, California-based electric car company, which does not advertise.

 

Wood, representing Unsworth, tried to establish that Musk knew he had a high degree of influence with his Twitter followers and the public, and that the veracity of what he said thus carried significant weight.

 

“People say a lot of things on Twitter that aren’t true,” Musk said.

 

In an opening statement earlier in the day, lawyer Taylor Wilson, another member of Unsworth's legal team, said the tweet in question was more than a slip-up, and Musk had no business branding Unsworth a predator "in what should have been one of the proudest moments of his life."

 

Musk lawyer Alex Spiro countered that Unsworth did not act after the tweet like a man who suffered because of it.

 

"The plaintiff is saying he has been horribly damaged, and deserves money," Spiro said. "He doesn't."

 

(Additional reporting by Jonathan Stempel in New York; Writing by Steve Gorman; Editing by Noeleen Walder and Cynthia Osterman)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-12-04

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[Srikcir]

1 hour ago, mikebell said:

That disqualifies nearly forty million this year alone (if TAT figures are to be believed.)

Humorous and perhaps a bit sarcastic but irrelevant.

Typically, qualifications for jurist service in the USA:

httph ://www.txcourts.gov/about-texas-courts/juror-information/jury-service-in-texas

Though this is for Texas it's typical.

[Bangkok Barry]

16 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

“Do you have strong opinions of people who visit or live in Thailand?”

 

Now, I wonder why they would ask that? Everyone I have ever asked what the first things that come to mind about Thailand are invariably answer with ladyboys and prostitutes. Nice reputation the country has, and obviously the US authorities/court have that in mind. So many might believe it is a haven for 'pedos' and therefore acquit this billionaire idiot.

[BMW Overlander]

Quote

Unsworth told CNN on July 13, 2018, three days after the rescue was successfully completed, that Musk's offer was a "PR stunt" and that Musk should "stick his submarine where it hurts."

Totally inapropriate comment, unmasks his social background.

Was he expecting kind reply?

[Cabradelmar]

Not only has Musk defamed someone with his accusations (presumably) of sexual misconduct, he is now hoping to disparage Thailand by attempting to (indirectly) make the point that everyone who comes here is a pervert... Musk is an asshat and I so hope he loses this farce

[SuperTed]

This bright shining star of a man needs to settle his case. Tesla should not give up on the TH market, and TH should be pitching to be Tesla SEA assembly line, putting to work all the know how TH has from other foreign car assembly plants.

 

But instead, this. ????

[Krataiboy]

A case could be made for replacing juries with AI. Human jurors tend to be swayed by irrational feelings and innate bias. A robotic juror devoid of emotions would be more likely to reach a verdict based solely on the evidence presented. 

 

This may not as scarily Orwellian as it may sounds - or as far off in the future. Robotic surgeons and doctors are already operating in clinics and hospital across the West and AI-enhanced mechanical psychiatrists and psychologists are in the pipeline. 

 

Who knows -maybe robots could end up running the United Nations and/or national governments. Arguably,  they could hardly do a worse job than the some of the present political leaders!

Edited December 4, 2019 by Krataiboy

[simtemple]

49 minutes ago, Cabradelmar said:

Not only has Musk defamed someone with his accusations (presumably) of sexual misconduct, he is now hoping to disparage Thailand by attempting to (indirectly) make the point that everyone who comes here is a pervert... Musk is an asshat and I so hope he loses this farce

Thailand is a beacon for low life sex tourists and paedophiles. That's the simple truth. Most of the world knows that. By the end of the trial the whole world will know it. 

[Sheryl]

5 hours ago, DoctorG said:

With those 2 questions it would be pretty easy to get out of jury selection.

Not in the US actually.

 

Very, very few Americans travel to Thailand and most aren't even clear on  the difference between Thailand and Taiwan.  It's not a common destination like it is for Europeans & Aussies.

 

I visit the US every year, get 0 reaction when people hear I live in Thailand other than the occasional "oh, near China?".

 

As for attitudes to billionaires. US billionaires run the entire political spectrum, from philanothrapists to  a (self claimed billionaire anyhow)  president.

[kotsak]

12 Angry Men.. ????

[Dumbastheycome]

1 hour ago, BMW Overlander said:

Totally inapropriate comment, unmasks his social background.

Was he expecting kind reply?

I tend to agree. Possibly suggesting "stick it where it hurts" could be argued/interpreted literally as if the comment is based on experience?

Musk made a mistake in response  but given the  tit for tat which Unsworth initiated it should have been let go.

Unsworth  got an apology. Musk gets a law suit.

 

[Cabradelmar]

This is not about 2 guys exchange insults...this is about defamation via public accusations of sexual misconduct...big difference...

[zydeco]

20 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Potential jurors in the defamation trial of high-tech entrepreneur Elon Musk may be excused from the case if they voice strong feelings about billionaires or people who visit Thailand.

Wow. I would be excused on both counts.

[zydeco]

1 hour ago, simtemple said:

Thailand is a beacon for low life sex tourists and paedophiles. That's the simple truth. Most of the world knows that. By the end of the trial the whole world will know it. 

It sure does seem that sooner or later every dodgy person manages to make his way to Thailand.

[klauskunkel]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

Elon Musk testifies his 'pedo guy' tweet not meant to be taken literally

Well, he did do it in writing, hence it is fundamentally literal.

[DJ54]

“Unsworth told CNN on July 13, 2018, three days after the rescue was completed, that the offer was a “PR stunt” and that Musk could “stick his submarine where it hurts.””

 

When I heard this I thought why in the world would anyone say

this to someone offering to help...

[DrTuner]

Won't be any TVF members in the jury then.

[DrTuner]

4 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

A case could be made for replacing juries with AI. Human jurors tend to be swayed by irrational feelings and innate bias. A robotic juror devoid of emotions would be more likely to reach a verdict based solely on the evidence presented. 

It'd be a death sentence every time. Humans are inssufferable if judged with pure logic.

[Yadon Toploy]

3 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

I tend to agree. Possibly suggesting "stick it where it hurts" could be argued/interpreted literally as if the comment is based on experience?

Musk made a mistake in response  but given the  tit for tat which Unsworth initiated it should have been let go.

Unsworth  got an apology. Musk gets a law suit.

 

Big difference telling someone to ram it and calling someone a peadophile. 

 

Indeed, if the case was tried in Thailand there is little doubt Musk would be convicted of defamation which could carry a jail sentence as it is a criminal matter here, not civil.

[Mick501]

4 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

A case could be made for replacing juries with AI. Human jurors tend to be swayed by irrational feelings and innate bias. A robotic juror devoid of emotions would be more likely to reach a verdict based solely on the evidence presented. 

 

This may not as scarily Orwellian as it may sounds - or as far off in the future. Robotic surgeons and doctors are already operating in clinics and hospital across the West and AI-enhanced mechanical psychiatrists and psychologists are in the pipeline. 

 

Who knows -maybe robots could end up running the United Nations and/or national governments. Arguably,  they could hardly do a worse job than the some of the present political leaders!

No case can me made for that.  As part of their instructions to juries, judges tell them to rely on their own personal experience.  Computers can't replicate that.

[Krataiboy]

1 hour ago, Mick501 said:

No case can me made for that.  As part of their instructions to juries, judges tell them to rely on their own personal experience.  Computers can't replicate that.

You never know what robots get up to in their spare time.

[rech]

if i was rich like him I would call anybody exactly as i want !

 

[Scott Tracy]

'Stick his submarine where it hurts' is implicit. It can be interpreted as anywhere that would hurt, not necessarily to 'sodomise'. 'Pedo guy' is explicit. No interpretation is required. The 2 statements are not the same and would not have the same reputational outcome.

As to the jury question regarding an opinion of those who visit Thailand, I would respectfully suggest that most of them wouldn't know what or where Thailand is.

[mickey rat]

 

 

8 hours ago, Cabradelmar said:

Not only has Musk defamed someone with his accusations (presumably) of sexual misconduct, he is now hoping to disparage Thailand by attempting to (indirectly) make the point that everyone who comes here is a pervert... Musk is an asshat and I so hope he loses this farce

If I had called him an asshat would I also be defaming and disparaging Thailand by insinuating that everyone who visits or lives in Thailand is an asshat? 

 

Personally I don't think it was a publicity stunt and that maybe if they had used the system for the rescy that Thai Navy seal that got whacked during the bumbled operation would still be alive. Who knows?

 

BTW, are you Jealous of Musk? ????

 

[zydeco]

42 minutes ago, Scott Tracy said:

Pedo guy' is explicit. No interpretation is required.

Could have been referring to someone who uses a pedometer to measure his walks. Hmmm.