Need Advice About Thai Gf And Baby

[Bill2345]

Hi. This is my first post here. I've been seeing a Thai lady for about a year. I've been to her parent's house in NE Thailand a couple times. She lives in Bangkok. Last time she went to visit her parents I came to Thailand unannounced and called her from Bangkok to say I was on my way to see her and her parents. She said that was fine. I got there and there was a baby at the house. She told me it was her sister's baby, but she'd never said anything before about her sister having a baby. Her sister was there also but my gf seemed more attached to the baby than her sister did. Her sister is not married and my gf says she's never been married nor has ever had any children. When I asked her why the baby was never at the house or with her sister before when I went there she said it was because the father of the baby has custody and her sister is only allowed to see the baby on occasion. My questions are as follows.

1) Is there any way to check under her name to see if there is any record of her giving birth to a child? I guess it probably would have been in Bangkok but not sure. Is there a national registry of births or is it local to each city or do you have to check with each hospital? We're not married so will they give out this information to a stranger not connected with the person who gave birth?

2) Is there any way to find out if she's been married before? What sort of records on marriages are a kept? Same sort of question as with the birth records. If I look at her ID card will that tell me if she was legally married before? I can't read any Thai so if anyone has some help about this I'd need to see a picture or a copy of the Thai words that distinguish between a married and unmarried person on the ID card.

3) If an unmarried Thai couple have a child, can the father even get legal custody of the child? I would have thought that the mother would automatically get custody unless they were married. The child is a boy if that is of any significance. If the mother wanted to get custody of the child, what would be involved and would it be expensive to do?

4) Being I don't speak Thai I will likely need the help of someone to try to find any records if that is doable. I don't want to spend a lot of money on some expensive private eye that targets foreigners in Thailand. Just someone who could go alone or go with me to wherever I need to go to try to get a look at any birth and/or marriage records. How much do you think it would cost and how long would it take? Any suggestions about some agency or someone who could help me out with this?

Thanks everyone for your help.

[britmaveric]

Well not to get personal, but I'd think it would be rather easy to tell if your gf has had a baby, just from the physical aspects.

Anyways I think it comes down to trust - you either trust her word or you don't.

[garro]

Sorry Bill if this sounds unhelpful but my advice to you would be not to have a relationship with someone you don't trust.

[changhighlily]

If you are serious about this girl then believe her. You seem to be asking to may ifs and whats. It will come out in the wash if you are with her long enough and if she as been lying to you its up to you what to do. Myself I would dump her

[think_too_mut]

Hi. This is my first post here. I've been seeing a Thai lady for about a year. I've been to her parent's house in NE Thailand a couple times.

She is not claiming the baby is yours.

What other issues do you have? Supporting somebody else's child?

Quite possible but no research is needed. I would just walk away.

[Bill2345]

Hi. This is my first post here. I've been seeing a Thai lady for about a year. I've been to her parent's house in NE Thailand a couple times.

She is not claiming the baby is yours.

What other issues do you have? Supporting somebody else's child?

Quite possible but no research is needed. I would just walk away.

Maybe I should add that I'm in my mid 20's and this is the longest relationship I've been in so I guess that makes me a bit inexperienced. It is also the first time I've been in a relationship with an Asian girl. I don't want to support the child I just want to know if she's telling me the truth or not. If both me and my gf came from the same culture and spoke the same native language I think I could probably figure it out more easily but she doesn't speak English very well and together with my lack of experience and lack of knowledge of Thai culture I think it might be easy for her to lie to me about this and for me not to detect it. I'd rather find out sooner than later if this is the case. I could just wait and see how things turn out but if she did lie to me my time would be better spent looking for someone else rather than waiting for her to screw up.

If the child really is her sister's then I might be willing to help her sister to get custody of the child if that's what she wants.

[November Rain]

Firstly fathers don't usually get the children unless the mother is not a good mother or doesn't want the child. It's not often a legal battle, as far as I know, just the accepted thing.

Secondly, why is it important to you whose the baby is? Is it just the truth/trust aspect, or do you have a problem being with this woman if the child is hers? It's going to be rather difficult for you to find out the truth if you can't communicate well with each other. People have pasts, you know. And she could very well be telling the truth. Looking after children is a family affair here.

If it's a trust thing, well, it looks like you have a problem, as you obviously don't trust her, if you're posting here. You have to decide what is most important to you - this girl (& maybe a child) or whatever principles/hangups you have.

[aussiestyle1983]

Well not to get personal, but I'd think it would be rather easy to tell if your gf has had a baby, just from the physical aspects.

That's right...................

Unless your hung like king kong and have destroyed the pie, you should be able to tell if she has squirted out a baby or two or three or not. The story sounds very suspicious, but you told it in a way to make it sound suspicious because you don't trust her. Maybe the baby is a problem for her sister and that is why your GF shows more emotional feelings towards the baby than her sister. Hopefully you find out so you can stop worrying, but next time you get a visa that enables you to travel south of the border (and I don't mean one of Thailands borders) take a good look around down there and im sure you will see one or two signs or maybe one big sign that would give you an idea if a baby has passed through her checkpoint or not.

[markr]

Just ask her mate, if you love her and she say's the child is not her's then you should believe her, if you still cant believe her then you really shouldn't be with her as there will definately be other times in the future when you need to trust her word, if you cant do it now then you never will!

p.s if you saw my misses with her sisters kids you would think they were hers!

pp.s as already said, you should really be able to tell if she's spat one out!

mark

Edited March 30, 2007 by markr

[Simmo]

Very common scenario when the farang comes to visit the Isaan family.

The husband acts as the brother.

The kids become the nieces and nephews.

[undercover]

Very common scenario when the farang comes to visit the Isaan family.

The husband acts as the brother.

The kids become the nieces and nephews.

.........................................

Yes thats very true, also digging around behind their backs looking to find out that she is the real mother of the child could create a dangerous situation, you will find yourself alone up there having exposed the family that were all lying to you.

[KhunMarco]

Very common scenario when the farang comes to visit the Isaan family.

The husband acts as the brother.

The kids become the nieces and nephews.

Very common, because you've read it more than once on Stickman site?

Very common because you have access to the Thai police reports?

Very common like getting struck by a lightening or like getting a cold ?

Inquiring minds want to know

edit: to the OP , trust your instinct, if you feel there's something fishy going on, probably there is.

It's your interest to know the truth

Edited March 30, 2007 by KhunMarco

[bino]

Well not to get personal, but I'd think it would be rather easy to tell if your gf has had a baby, just from the physical aspects.

That's right...................

Unless your hung like king kong and have destroyed the pie, you should be able to tell if she has squirted out a baby or two or three or not. The story sounds very suspicious, but you told it in a way to make it sound suspicious because you don't trust her. Maybe the baby is a problem for her sister and that is why your GF shows more emotional feelings towards the baby than her sister. Hopefully you find out so you can stop worrying, but next time you get a visa that enables you to travel south of the border (and I don't mean one of Thailands borders) take a good look around down there and im sure you will see one or two signs or maybe one big sign that would give you an idea if a baby has passed through her checkpoint or not.

Also- does your GF have any stretch marks from a pregnancy? Most small-framed Thai women will have stretch marks after delivering a baby.....

[mrbojangles]

Firstly fathers don't usually get the children unless the mother is not a good mother or doesn't want the child. It's not often a legal battle, as far as I know, just the accepted thing.

Sorry NR, in my experiences i don't agree. I don't think in Thailand there is a "usually" as there are so many variants. Many, many ladies leave their kids with their parents whilst they go and find work, often hundred's of miles away. If the husband and wife split, often the kids end up with the family who have the most money. Wether it be the man's or woman's.

So to say that "unless the mother is not a good mother or doesn't want the child" is a tad unfair. IMO

Also- does your GF have any stretch marks from a pregnancy? Most small-framed Thai women will have stretch marks after delivering a baby.....

That's what I'd think also

[mutleyg]

My wife, her younger sister and my mother in law all appear more attached to her older sisters child than she does but this is because she is working more than they are. Sometimes its the support the Thai family unit offers each other that can confuse you more than there being any real bad intent.

Having said that I agree with some other posters that it all comes down to trust.

I hope you don't get burnt, but bottom line go with your feelings. UP TO YOU!!

Good luck I hope it works out ok for you.

[Thai-Spy]

1) Is there any way to check under her name to see if there is any record of her giving birth to a child?

Officially, no, not without a court order. In practice, yes.

I guess it probably would have been in Bangkok but not sure.

Location is irrelevant, it's at the national level.

Is there a national registry of births or is it local to each city or do you have to check with each hospital?

See above.

We're not married so will they give out this information to a stranger not connected with the person who gave birth?

Not likely, unless you do get married then you'd have a right to know.

2) Is there any way to find out if she's been married before?

Yes.

What sort of records on marriages are a kept?

Marriages and divorces both as well as marriages ended by death of one spouse. Always includes name of both parties, date and place of registration, identity numbers on both parties and if marriage ended often some data on why.

Same sort of question as with the birth records. If I look at her ID card will that tell me if she was legally married before? I can't read any Thai so if anyone has some help about this I'd need to see a picture or a copy of the Thai words that distinguish between a married and unmarried person on the ID card.

น.ส. ("nong sao") = Miss = Either never married or was once married, now not, and went through some hard steps to not be a "Mrs" anymore.

นาง ("nang) = Mrs. = Has been married, may still be married, etc.

3) If an unmarried Thai couple have a child, can the father even get legal custody of the child?

Both lawful parents of a Thai child have equal rights of custody until a court says otherwise.

I would have thought that the mother would automatically get custody unless they were married.

No, although it would weigh against the father in a custody fight.

The child is a boy if that is of any significance.

No significance at all until a court gets involved, then only a little.

If the mother wanted to get custody of the child, what would be involved and would it be expensive to do?

If a court has already given custody to the father, that's that, unless there's a significant change in the status of either parent and a new court case is undertaken. If a court hasn't ruled, then she still has custody rights in full.

Edited for clarity.

Edited March 30, 2007 by Thai-Spy

[torrenova]

I knew a girl whose sister married a western guy. I knew him and his family for a while before I lost contact with the Thai girl. Anyway, he thought she had one baby before, she then had one with him. She had actually had 5 other babies ranging in ages from 4 or so up to 20. The eldest was just another sister / cousin, the children were just "family".

I assure you the guy nor his family had any idea. I knew after I had met him as I knew the "sister" who was a daughter before I met him and they had to tell me really.

There are some good ones out there but unless you meet them away from the P4P scene you will find a far greater percentage of thieving, lying, cheating bastards than you thought imagineable. They have schools for conning the gullible and I hope you don't fall into that category.

Don't walk away, run !

[Toptrainer]

If you have to ask.................................you know the rest.

[Artfullmover]

There could be some serious trust issues in your situation.

Could be that she may not trust you. Have you thought along the lines that it may be her kid and she thinks if you know you will leave her for someone else. You could have a real negatative view on that or show a little understanding.

Im not trying to be critical but your post does suggest you may do just that.

I guess you may be serious about this girl because you as feel the need to know or is it a pride thing ( I guess we all have a phobia to losing FACE to some degree). I would try talking about things with her in a non treatning manner after getting her away from her family and influences ( Holiday )Showing you have understanding and try to gain her trust and and if dont seem to make progress in puting your mind at rest ( either way about the kid being hers or not) think about moving on after all if you cant talk and gain trust and feel comfortable with what your partners telling you what demons will the future create.

Seems like a lot of people on this site have read " Private Dancer".

[Artfullmover]

Have you thought about helping her get a visa to travel to your own country. You might be able to aquire some of the personal details you are after if you play your cards right.

Nothing says you have to use the visa.

[Flysiam]

Hi. This is my first post here. I've been seeing a Thai lady for about a year. I've been to her parent's house in NE Thailand a couple times.

She is not claiming the baby is yours.

What other issues do you have? Supporting somebody else's child?

Quite possible but no research is needed. I would just walk away.

Maybe I should add that I'm in my mid 20's and this is the longest relationship I've been in so I guess that makes me a bit inexperienced. It is also the first time I've been in a relationship with an Asian girl. I don't want to support the child I just want to know if she's telling me the truth or not. If both me and my gf came from the same culture and spoke the same native language I think I could probably figure it out more easily but she doesn't speak English very well and together with my lack of experience and lack of knowledge of Thai culture I think it might be easy for her to lie to me about this and for me not to detect it. I'd rather find out sooner than later if this is the case. I could just wait and see how things turn out but if she did lie to me my time would be better spent looking for someone else rather than waiting for her to screw up.

If the child really is her sister's then I might be willing to help her sister to get custody of the child if that's what she wants.

How does one really have a long term relationship with someone when they don't speak the same language?- he can't speak hers at all and she doesn't speak his very well. Not to say it doesn't happen all the time here but just seems that such a relationship is fraught with potential problems and gross misunderstandings. All I can say is be careful.... but maybe more likely... RUN FORREST .....RUN!

[aussiestyle1983]

Have you thought about helping her get a visa to travel to your own country. You might be able to aquire some of the personal details you are after if you play your cards right.

Nothing says you have to use the visa.

that's exactally what I was thinking.

Then you will be able to get all kinds of doccuments, and get to see them after they have been translated into English, name changes etc! Better for you!

Then, if the Embassy has any suspicions, you will be able to find out what doccuments are missing or whats going on....................

Edited March 31, 2007 by aussiestyle1983

[Norrad]

If she is quite young, then she will be very fond of her siblings children. My girlfriend goes all goes all googly eyed when she sees her niece. You would swear the child was hers as the mother often seems disinterested.

[opothai]

Well not to get personal, but I'd think it would be rather easy to tell if your gf has had a baby, just from the physical aspects.

That's right...................

Unless your hung like king kong and have destroyed the pie, you should be able to tell if she has squirted out a baby or two or three or not. The story sounds very suspicious, but you told it in a way to make it sound suspicious because you don't trust her. Maybe the baby is a problem for her sister and that is why your GF shows more emotional feelings towards the baby than her sister. Hopefully you find out so you can stop worrying, but

next time you get a visa that enables you to travel south of the border (and I don't mean one of Thailands borders) take a good look around down there and im sure you will see one or two signs or maybe one big sign that would give you an idea if a baby has passed through her checkpoint or not.

the best and most colourful advise yet.

made me laugh out loud to myself and had to explain the wording to my thai wife.

nice one

[kratindaeng]

That's right...................

Unless your hung like king kong and have destroyed the pie, you should be able to tell if she has squirted out a baby or two or three or not.

555555555555555! <deleted>!!! Classic! 55555555!

KD

[Mobi]

She could be telling you the truth but the odds are against it.

It is highly unlikely that the father would take custody, and if he did, even more unlikely that he would let the mother take care of the baby for a while. This ain't the west and these things don't happen. If he wasn't registered as the father he has no rights and no claim to the baby. If he was registered as the father, and took the baby, he's not going to return it for 'viewing'. that's the weakest part of her story.

Some girls maintain very 'clean' bodies after pregnancy if they conceive in mid to late teens. But there are always some tell tale signs. Just take a long hard look and you will see them.

The id card should tell you if she's been legally married, but as for the rest - I'd leave well alone if I were you.

There's too many new 'opportunities' out there - if you're not happy, write it off to experience.

[Douggie Style]

1) Is there any way to check under her name to see if there is any record of her giving birth to a child?

Officially, no, not without a court order. In practice, yes.

I guess it probably would have been in Bangkok but not sure.

Location is irrelevant, it's at the national level.

Is there a national registry of births or is it local to each city or do you have to check with each hospital?

See above.

We're not married so will they give out this information to a stranger not connected with the person who gave birth?

Not likely, unless you do get married then you'd have a right to know.

2) Is there any way to find out if she's been married before?

Yes.

What sort of records on marriages are a kept?

Marriages and divorces both as well as marriages ended by death of one spouse. Always includes name of both parties, date and place of registration, identity numbers on both parties and if marriage ended often some data on why.

Same sort of question as with the birth records. If I look at her ID card will that tell me if she was legally married before? I can't read any Thai so if anyone has some help about this I'd need to see a picture or a copy of the Thai words that distinguish between a married and unmarried person on the ID card.

น.ส. ("nong sao") = Miss = Either never married or was once married, now not, and went through some hard steps to not be a "Mrs" anymore.

นาง ("nang) = Mrs. = Has been married, may still be married, etc.

3) If an unmarried Thai couple have a child, can the father even get legal custody of the child?

Both lawful parents of a Thai child have equal rights of custody until a court says otherwise.

I would have thought that the mother would automatically get custody unless they were married.

No, although it would weigh against the father in a custody fight.

The child is a boy if that is of any significance.

No significance at all until a court gets involved, then only a little.

If the mother wanted to get custody of the child, what would be involved and would it be expensive to do?

If a court has already given custody to the father, that's that, unless there's a significant change in the status of either parent and a new court case is undertaken. If a court hasn't ruled, then she still has custody rights in full.

Edited for clarity.

Excellent answer. You may find also something useful on the house registration paper, how you get the copy is up to you.

What's with all the other paternalisitic moralising claptrap? The guy asked some simple common sense questions, if you can't answer it why bother posting?

[chanchao]

It's not uncommon for a visiting auntie to seem 'close' or enamored with her sister's baby. After all especially if sister lives at home, then auntie sees a lot less of the baby, so will spend relatively a lot of time with him.

Anyway, the document that will answer all questions is the child's birth certificate. It states who the mother is and, if known, who the father is.

[Bill2345]

Thanks all for your replies. Maybe I'm still too immature but I think I'm justified in wanting to verify if she's telling me the truth or not. I've heard so many tales about people who fully trusted their partner only to find out after it was too late how much they'd been deceived. I do want to believe and trust my gf but if something sounds suspicious I think I'd be foolish to just go blindly trusting her. As they say trust but verify. Everyone is human and the number of people who have never deceived any one else in any way is probably extremely minute.

With regards to the comments about checking her out to see if she has signs of a baby, she's quite shy in that respect and always wants the lights off. She didn't seem to have any signs of having had a baby but then I don't have any experience in being with a woman who I know had a baby before so wasn't quite sure what to expect. Especially being she's my first Asian gf I didn't know if perhaps the signs of having a baby would be less than what I expected them to be. Could be she wants the lights off because she's shy or could be she's trying to cover up (no pun intended) something.

[aussiestyle1983]

You ar every suspicious indeed.

Maybe you are right, she is shy to let you go down and please her because she is afraid that you might find a few stretch marks down there, or some kind of signs of destruction! Which, would only lead to two conclusions, a baby has poped out or king kong has paid her a visit!

Edited April 1, 2007 by aussiestyle1983