Exclusive: Less than half of all Americans want Trump ousted post-impeachment - Reuters/Ipsos poll

[Solinvictus]

On 12/21/2019 at 1:55 PM, mogandave said:

We all know he pushes left-wing policies, we just don’t all agree those policies help the poor and middle class. 
 

We also know he has gotten rich doing it, and that he paid his last campaign staff less than the minimum wage he was promoting. 
 

By 'left-wing policies' you mean 'progressive'? Matter of opinion I suppose but not when it comes to neo-liberal policies from the past. As far as 'we just don't all agree those policies help the poor and middle class' do you mean Bernie's policies? If so, well half the country is pushing Bernie up in the polls as of late. And being for regular folks rather than catering to big corporations is what is needed. Bernie will be doing just that and has been quite clear with the details and his plans.

There really is not another candidate that is pushing for such a strong agenda to tackle many of the issues that need addressed. Pretty much everyone else is more of the same and their talking points tend to gain votes without much substance. Rather, empty platitudes time and time again. Sanders has a long history for concern and helping the middle class. How can you not vote for him?

 

You don't believe in 'trickle-down' economics do you? Ha.. Many folks still fall for that 'mockery.'

 

[Solinvictus]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Problem with US presidential elections is that it is so expensive that only someone with one or other of the party's behind them can win. If campaigns were capped and paid for by the state, independents might have a chance. Any politician that gets in is so beholden to the doners that they might as well play golf all day and let the lobbyists run the country, IMO.

Reminds me of Trump catering to Israel and it's national agendas. You get Trump supporters who talk about 'MAGA.' Trump puts Israel national interests over Americas!

 

But more specific to your post, would you say a vote for Bernie Sanders would be a step in changing this? Why would I ask? Because unlike other candidates, he doesn't take money for big corporations apparently.

[Solinvictus]

On 12/21/2019 at 2:36 PM, RideJocky said:

Yes, the left will NEVER forgive Trump for giving Clinton the beat-down she deserved. 
 

Pay back’s a ****** ******, and a ****** ****** gets paid back!!!!

 

 

 

This is what is hurting the Democratic Party. Too much focus on Trump rather than getting people to vote for them based on real policy. Too bad...too bad...

 

I think HRC and Biden were/are terrible. People wanted someone to 'fight the system.' However, I don't think Trump really delivered other than to, and just like the Democratic Party, Wall-Street/Big Business. That, rather than so many other things I could mention. You know like, criminal justice reform and rising drug prices.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Solinvictus

[RideJocky]

23 minutes ago, Solinvictus said:

By 'left-wing policies' you mean 'progressive'? Matter of opinion I suppose but not when it comes to neo-liberal policies from the past. As far as 'we just don't all agree those policies help the poor and middle class' do you mean Bernie's policies? If so, well half the country is pushing Bernie up in the polls as of late. And being for regular folks rather than catering to big corporations is what is needed. Bernie will be doing just that and has been quite clear with the details and his plans.

There really is not another candidate that is pushing for such a strong agenda to tackle many of the issues that need addressed. Pretty much everyone else is more of the same and their talking points tend to gain votes without much substance. Rather, empty platitudes time and time again. Sanders has a long history for concern and helping the middle class. How can you not vote for him?

 

You don't believe in 'trickle-down' economics do you? Ha.. Many folks still fall for that 'mockery.'

 

Okay, what “progressive” policies has Bernie been pushing that have helped the middle class?

 

I don’t doubt his concern for the poor and middle class, but how has he helped them? 

[Solinvictus]

9 hours ago, RideJocky said:

Yeah, once you get past the headlines, your links support my claims, did you read them?

"...More surprisingly, the richest 10% as a group receives almost as much government assistance as the poorest 50%.

The critics of poor Americans should be informed that even after transfers, income for the working-age bottom 50% has not improved since 1979. And they should be reminded that the cost of the entire safety net is only about one-sixth of the $2.2 trillion in tax breaks and tax avoidance that primarily benefit the rich.

 

Most of society's benefits go to the super-rich and their businesses:

• Financial assistance: Stock markets, legal system, patent and copyright systems, intellectual property, contract law.
• The military: National defense, local police forces, National Guard, Coast Guard.
• Infrastructure: In the physical form of highways, railroads, airports; the energy grid; and in the form of communications though the airwaves, especially the internet.
• Federal agencies: Federal Reserve, SEC, FTC, SBA, FAA, NASA. Research at the Department of Defense, the Air Force, NASA, and public universities.

Today the taking of our national wealth can be tax-deferred indefinitely. A just society should have some form of wealth tax, as recommended by Piketty, perhaps as a modified version of the Haig-Simons call for taxing annual stock gains. Then millions of non-stockholders would rightfully get a piece of our 70 years of national prosperity."

 

 

 

@RideJocky *Sniff sniff* Smells like corporate talking points to me. Are you on the board too?

 

I suppose the poor and those working multiple jobs should just go back to nature. You know the place where corporations devastate. Such a crude argument to be on the same side as the same institutions that caused the 2008 Financial Collapse. Wow...I suppose you support continued war also?

[Solinvictus]

2 minutes ago, RideJocky said:

Okay, what “progressive” policies has Bernie been pushing that have helped the middle class?

 

I don’t doubt his concern for the poor and middle class, but how has he helped them? 

Sorry mate, if you don't know by now, no point in me telling you to help you see the difference between what he has done in the past and is proposing compared to the other candidates..

[RideJocky]

24 minutes ago, Solinvictus said:

Sorry mate, if you don't know by now, no point in me telling you to help you see the difference between what he has done in the past and is proposing compared to the other candidates..

That’s what I thought, thanks. 

[RideJocky]

27 minutes ago, Solinvictus said:

"...More surprisingly, the richest 10% as a group receives almost as much government assistance as the poorest 50%.

The critics of poor Americans should be informed that even after transfers, income for the working-age bottom 50% has not improved since 1979. And they should be reminded that the cost of the entire safety net is only about one-sixth of the $2.2 trillion in tax breaks and tax avoidance that primarily benefit the rich.

 

Most of society's benefits go to the super-rich and their businesses:

• Financial assistance: Stock markets, legal system, patent and copyright systems, intellectual property, contract law.
• The military: National defense, local police forces, National Guard, Coast Guard.
• Infrastructure: In the physical form of highways, railroads, airports; the energy grid; and in the form of communications though the airwaves, especially the internet.
• Federal agencies: Federal Reserve, SEC, FTC, SBA, FAA, NASA. Research at the Department of Defense, the Air Force, NASA, and public universities.

Today the taking of our national wealth can be tax-deferred indefinitely. A just society should have some form of wealth tax, as recommended by Piketty, perhaps as a modified version of the Haig-Simons call for taxing annual stock gains. Then millions of non-stockholders would rightfully get a piece of our 70 years of national prosperity."

 

 

 

@RideJocky *Sniff sniff* Smells like corporate talking points to me. Are you on the board too?

 

I suppose the poor and those working multiple jobs should just go back to nature. You know the place where corporations devastate. Such a crude argument to be on the same side as the same institutions that caused the 2008 Financial Collapse. Wow...I suppose you support continued war also?

Do you even read what you cut and paste? 
 

You know you are listing the military and virtually all government programs under the super-rich and their businesses. 
 

I’ve worked for minimum wage and less. Hard work, outside in the weather. I’m not rich and I care about the poor and middle class, I just don’t see how a lot of government program are going to help them. 

 

Please explain how these programs are going to work, because I seem to see the poorest people living in the richest cities that seem to be full of people that care soooooo much and have no shortage of taxes, programs and handouts to “help” them. 
 

Please tell what you think has, or is going to lift people out of poverty and make them self-supporting. 

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, RideJocky said:

So the State is going to fund anyone that wants to run?

 

Or will they only fund “approved” confidantes? 
 

We’re in this mess because campaign finance reform. 

There would have to be some sort of criteria to determine who was a serious contender. Ralph Nader was a serious contender.

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, Solinvictus said:

Could you have a bit more substance to your views and responses? I'm talking about a politician that has over a 20 year history for promoting working class/middle class concerns. You don't support Bernie because 'socialist'? 

 

Oh, but you are okay with social security, medicare, and other services we pay into? News flash, they are 'socialist' like. Not to mention corporate 'bailouts,' haha, get out of here with that..

 

As far more candidates needed, yeah I agree, needs to me more. However, if you look at what they have to offer in detail like you know actually looking at what policies and agenda they have. You can clearly see Bernie Sanders is what is needed to address the issues The Nation is facing.

 

I'm still in shock at your total dismissal of Bernie Sanders. I mean do you even pay attention to what politicians do in office? Other than from what that TV box says? No offense of course.

Surely Bernie is not still in the running? Too old and had a heart attack. Voting for him is voting for the VP to become president.

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, Solinvictus said:

This is what is hurting the Democratic Party. Too much focus on Trump rather than getting people to vote for them based on real policy. Too bad...too bad...

 

I think HRC and Biden were/are terrible. People wanted someone to 'fight the system.' However, I don't think Trump really delivered other than to, and just like the Democratic Party, Wall-Street/Big Business. That, rather than so many other things I could mention. You know like, criminal justice reform and rising drug prices.

Given American politics, I don't think it's possible to avoid dealing with the devil big business when president. Remember Eisenhower warned of the power of the military industrial complex, and nothing changed since then.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, Solinvictus said:

Sorry mate, if you don't know by now, no point in me telling you to help you see the difference between what he has done in the past and is proposing compared to the other candidates..

Isn't what anyone has done in the past irrelevant when one becomes president? The office corrupts anyone that occupies it- power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, RideJocky said:

You know you are listing the military and virtually all government programs under the super-rich and their businesses. 

Follow the money to see who benefits.

[CharlieH]

If you cut n paste non standard font/graphics it will be removed.

 

Forum Netiquette
 
1. Please do not post in all capital letters, bold, unusual fonts, sizes, colors or use unusually large emoticons.

[thaicurious]

Exclusive: More than half of all Americans want Trump ousted post-impeachment - Politico/Morning Consult poll

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/poll-52-of-americans-support-trumps-impeachment-and-removal-2019-12

A majority of Americans support believe (impeached) President Trump should be removed from office...

 

The share of Americans who want Trump removed...climbed since...impeachment...

 

...on December 14-15...50% of Americans supported Trump's impeachment, compared with 52% in the most recent poll...

 

In other polling news:

 

https://www.newsweek.com/after-impeachment-more-half-voters-want-senate-call-witnesses-trial-remove-trump-office-1478592

the majority of American voters surveyed...also want the Senate trial to call witnesses.

 

Along party lines, 66 percent of Democrats want witnesses called, while 51 percent of independents agree. The result among Republicans is more evenly split, with 43 percent wanting witnesses and 39 percent opposing.

 

Fifty-two percent of those polled believe the president's Ukrainian dealings represented an abuse of power and an attempt to influence the 2020 election, while 38 percent believe he was acting within his power as president.

 

Conservative aggregator RealClear hasn't yet incorporated the latest polling into its totals currently standing from Dec 17th at

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/public_approval_of_the_impeachment_and_removal_of_president_trump-6957.html

Polling Data

Poll	Date	Sample	Yes/Remove	No	Spread
RCP Average	12/2 - 12/17	--	47.2	48.0	No +0.8

 

But to be real clear, at least as of this polling, even the Republican numbers--while still overall supporting the impeached president--have ticked up, since impeachment and as of this writing, towards removal. You can see that uptick here:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/impeachment-polls/

 

 

In sum, merely...

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/20/poll-trump-impeachment-088812

...43 percent (of all Americans)...disapprove of the House voting to impeach Trump

 

Let's see how the center right Evangelicals eventually play into this now that they've finally started to speak up, and how numbers might change give a fair trial with witnesses who have first hand knowledge but to date kept by Trump at arm's length.

 

Which Americans want a fair trial?

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/20/poll-trump-impeachment-088812

...54 percent, agree the Senate should call witnesses in the trial “because some White House staff refused to testify” during the House’s impeachment inquiry — twice the 27 percent who say the Senate shouldn’t call witnesses...

 

And how might this all play out in the next election?

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/20/poll-trump-impeachment-088812

...43 percent of voters say they are more likely to vote for a member of Congress who supported impeachment, while 34 percent say they are less likely...

 

Edited December 23, 2019 by thaicurious

[Solinvictus]

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Isn't what anyone has done in the past irrelevant when one becomes president? The office corrupts anyone that occupies it- power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

That seems to be so. I'd like to share this I recently watched on Democracy Now with the two time Pulitzer Prize winning author Robert Caro on ‘Political Power & Its Impact on the Powerless.’

 

He believes that your statement which is often a common cliché, to be not true. Given his experiences with LBJ and from LBJ himself.

 

Just thought I’d share. Not for debating it, ha.

From LBJ to Robert Moses: Robert Caro on Writing About Political Power & Its Impact on the Powerless

Edited December 23, 2019 by Solinvictus

[Kelsall]

On 12/20/2019 at 4:03 PM, thaicurious said:

More on recent crack in Trump's base with regard to which "Americans want Trump ousted"...

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/19/us/christianity-today-trump.html

...dissent among the religious conservative base...came at one of the most vulnerable moments of his presidency....

 

...the magazine has long represented more centrist thought...

 

...Opposition to Mr. Trump among white evangelicals remains exceedingly rare....

 

(but)

 

...“That he should be removed, we believe, is not a matter of partisan loyalties but loyalty to the Creator of the Ten Commandments.”

Wrong...

 

Nearly 200 evangelical leaders condemned Christianity Today's editorial calling for the removal of President Trump, which “offensively questioned the spiritual integrity and Christian witness of tens-of-millions of believers who take seriously their civic and moral obligations," they wrote to the magazine's president.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/faith-values/nearly-200-evangelical-leaders-condemned-christianity-today-editorial-on-trump

[Sujo]

2 hours ago, Kelsall said:

Wrong...

 

Nearly 200 evangelical leaders condemned Christianity Today's editorial calling for the removal of President Trump, which “offensively questioned the spiritual integrity and Christian witness of tens-of-millions of believers who take seriously their civic and moral obligations," they wrote to the magazine's president.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/faith-values/nearly-200-evangelical-leaders-condemned-christianity-today-editorial-on-trump

Maybe true. Nutjobs who believe in the fairy godfather also follow trump.

 

Sounds reasonable.

[thaicurious]

3 hours ago, Kelsall said:

Wrong...

 

Nearly 200 evangelical leaders condemned Christianity Today's editorial calling for the removal of President Trump, which “offensively questioned the spiritual integrity and Christian witness of tens-of-millions of believers who take seriously their civic and moral obligations," they wrote to the magazine's president.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/faith-values/nearly-200-evangelical-leaders-condemned-christianity-today-editorial-on-trump

Your WRONG is wrong. Your thoughtlessly saying so doesn't make it so, as what you've said in support of your delusional statement refutes nothing I've said.

 

Let's have a look at some of the signers. That should prove amusing...

 

Chonda Pierce
Comedian

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chonda_Pierce

Pierce is a staunch supporter of Donald Trump. She performed a comedy set at his inauguration and is a member of the Women for Trump

 

Lanny Swaim
Worship Artist

 

https://www.lannyswaim.com/

Prophet

...Often when I am alone the Lord gives me prophetic words which I type and then publish.

 

Lanny accepts financial contributions should you be led of the Lord

 

Yikes.

 

I'd research more but I can't stop laughing. Let's see if anyone else has already done that work...

 

https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2019/12/23/177-evangelical-pastors-slam-christianity-todays-anti-trump-op-ed/

They include former Rep. Michele Bachmann, poolboy aficionado Jerry Falwell Jr., screaming preacher Greg Locke, and conspiracy theorist Lance Wallnau.

 

Yikes.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, Solinvictus said:

That seems to be so. I'd like to share this I recently watched on Democracy Now with the two time Pulitzer Prize winning author Robert Caro on ‘Political Power & Its Impact on the Powerless.’

 

He believes that your statement which is often a common cliché, to be not true. Given his experiences with LBJ and from LBJ himself.

 

Just thought I’d share. Not for debating it, ha.

From LBJ to Robert Moses: Robert Caro on Writing About Political Power & Its Impact on the Powerless

It is my understanding that LBJ thought he could run the Vietnam war from his office. If that's not corruption of power, I don't know what is.

I guess he had a Damascus moment when he decided not to run again.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/20/2019 at 10:03 PM, thaicurious said:

More on recent crack in Trump's base with regard to which "Americans want Trump ousted"...

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/19/us/christianity-today-trump.html

...dissent among the religious conservative base...came at one of the most vulnerable moments of his presidency....

 

...the magazine has long represented more centrist thought...

 

...Opposition to Mr. Trump among white evangelicals remains exceedingly rare....

 

(but)

 

...“That he should be removed, we believe, is not a matter of partisan loyalties but loyalty to the Creator of the Ten Commandments.”

So you believe, perhaps, that the Lord Almighty came down to Earth and told the writer of the article that Trump should be removed from the presidency.

If that's not the case, then the article is just the writer's opinion, IMO.

[sirineou]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

So you believe, perhaps, that the Lord Almighty came down to Earth and told the writer of the article that Trump should be removed from the presidency.

If that's not the case, then the article is just the writer's opinion, IMO.

Of course it is the opinion of the writers , that's why the call it an opinion piece. Unless it was an Opinion poll, who else's opinion would it be?  

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

Of course it is the opinion of the writers , that's why the call it an opinion piece. Unless it was an Opinion poll, who else's opinion would it be?  

Fine, so why does anyone parade it in public as implying all Christians oppose Trump? Opinion is just opinion of the writer. It does not indicate mass support for their opinion, and is therefore of no importance except for people that hate Trump.

[sirineou]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

Fine, so why does anyone parade it in public as implying all Christians oppose Trump? Opinion is just opinion of the writer. It does not indicate mass support for their opinion, and is therefore of no importance except for people that hate Trump.

Because it is the opinion of a core constituency,  

[luckyluke]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

... Opinion is just opinion of the writer. It does not indicate mass support for their opinion, and is therefore of no importance... 

Oh, so true. 

[sirineou]

Just now, luckyluke said:

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

... Opinion is just opinion of the writer. It does not indicate mass support for their opinion, and is therefore of no importance... 

Oh, so true. 

Sure . and the bible is only the opinion of  those who wrote it. 

[simple1]

On 12/20/2019 at 10:14 AM, hyku1147 said:

Where is the evidence? Hearsay, opinion, *demagoguery, and **ad-hominem attacks (which are propagated by biased news organizations)  are not grounds for impeachment.

 

* A demagogue or rabble-rouser is a leader who gains popularity in a democracy by exploiting emotions, prejudice, and ignorance to arouse an audience, whipping up the passions of the crowd and shutting down reasoned deliberation.

 

** Ad hominem (Latin for "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, typically refers to a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument...

On both counts perfect descriptions of trump's behaviour. 

[sirineou]

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

On both counts perfect descriptions of trump's behaviour. 

I wonder. Do they hear themselves when they are talking?

[WayWokeWhiteGuy]

8 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I believe he will lose the next election. Things are very divided now. I used to be able to have civil conversations with my conservative friends. I still can with some, and cannot with others. My sister and brother in law, excommunicated a very close friend of mine from family gatherings, because he disagreed with them about their very conservative positions. They just did not want to hear it. 

 

Why didn't you ask your friend to tone it down?

 

I know when my sister told me I annoyed her girlfriend I quit talking politics around her. When the girlfriend tries to say something my sister shuts her down. Not that tough.

 

They live in Palm Desert, I drive thru a ridiculous wind-farm every time I visit.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.