180 day in country rules

[My 2 cents]

8 hours ago, Tounge Thaied said:

It's been expressed, and is my understanding, 3 VISA exempt entries per 6 months for a total of 6 per year. Any immigration officer is going to begin to scrutinize your entries when you approach these two thresholds correct?

i did find similar after research
"Most foreigners that come to Thailand arrive and are stamped with what they believe is a “30 day visa.” In reality, this is a 30 day exemption stamp that allows the traveler to remain in Thailand for 30 days without a visa. Under current Thai Immigration Law, anyone entitled to a visa exemption stamp may only remain in the Kingdom for 90 out of every 180 days. In the past, this rule did not exist and allowed for unlimited exemption stamps and led to many foreigners remaining in Thailand using the “infinite border run” method. Unfortunately for some, this legal loophole has been closed and anyone in the Kingdom of Thailand for more than 90 out of every 180 days will be barred from re-entering without a proper visa."
source: http://www.integrity-legal.com/thai-visa/visa-general-info.html

[ubonjoe]

6 hours ago, My 2 cents said:

i did find similar after research

Actually that is not totally correct and has outdated info.

The 90 days in 6 months rule was rescinded in 2008. See: visa exemp tPO 778-2551_en.pdf

That same order started 15 day visa exempt entries at a land border crossing that was rescinded when the order limiting them to 2 per calendar year

By air there is no written limit on the number of entries or number of days spent when entering the country.

[4MyEgo]

23 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

There is no rule but after 180 days (calendar year) in a country you become a tax resident.

Not if you do not earn an income in that country, I know it's off the topic, but if your money is back in your country, you can become a non resident for tax purposes and pay zero tax.

 

That's how I do it, Thailand gets zero from me, as I make zero $'s in Thailand and my home country gets zero $'s because of the way I invest my $'s, win/lose situation, I win ????

 

[Letseng]

16 hours ago, elviajero said:

It wasn’t a “police order”, and it didn’t need to specify the fact, because — under the regulation — the maximum you could stay in any 360 day period was 180 days. That is an indisputable fact.

 

Yes the VE flag counts entries over all time. It’s then up to the IO to check the records to see how much time was spent in the country over the last year or so. It’s just a flag (guide) to alert the possibility the visitor is mis-using VE to live/work in the country.

This 180 day rule applies in many countries incl. Schengen area. Why should Thailand not apply it?

[Letseng]

29 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Not if you do not earn an income in that country, I know it's off the topic, but if your money is back in your country, you can become a non resident for tax purposes and pay zero tax.

 

That's how I do it, Thailand gets zero from me, as I make zero $'s in Thailand and my home country gets zero $'s because of the way I invest my $'s, win/lose situation, I win ????

 

I hope it will work for you and a taxman won't catch up with you.

[steve187]

14 hours ago, elviajero said:

The Ministerial Regulation was announced via a police order.
 

We are/were discussing VE entry limits. You are now deflecting. You could not stay more than 180 days in 360 entering under VE. Fact. And the current flag system reflects that same limit.

 

And if they ever set limits for VE/TR entry in the future it will be, IMO, 180 days. The fact that immigration use 180 days is not random, it’s because you are considered resident after 180 days.

if the 180 days rule/flag exists, then its more than likely to be 2 x 90 days, ie 2x 60 days + extension, which would make the multi entry obsolete, and 6 x 30 days, nothing to do with residency

[ubonjoe]

23 minutes ago, Letseng said:

This 180 day rule applies in many countries incl. Schengen area. Why should Thailand not apply it?

Because they are not really worried about people staying in the country more than 180 days in the country. I think the real authorities that set the rules like seeing the money coming into the country.

[4MyEgo]

31 minutes ago, Letseng said:

I hope it will work for you and a taxman won't catch up with you.

It does, and the taxman is welcome, it's all legitimate, i.e. as long as I follow the rules the government back in my home country has implemented, which I do, there is no issue.

[Matzzon]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

win/lose situation, I win ????

So far! Wait until they get up new systems in the international world just because of money laundring. They will then find the suspicious persons, and also dive down into their economical history. The small tax you could have been paying now, that you look at as a win. Just that might be what comes back and bites you connected to a big a$$ fine!

 

You shall never count your winnings too early. Merry Christmas!

[freeman01]

Being a tax resident is very different from being a resident in a country. Don't mix up the two.

In Thailand the Immigration dept and the Revenue dept do not communicate with each other unless very specific cases.

Immigration don't know if you are a tax resident and absolutely don't care.

 

Resident : long term visa ( likely above 1 year) and long term stay in the country.

Tax Resident : 183 days or more (above half a year) total days inside the country during the fiscal year with no regard to which type of visa used.

 

 

There is only one written rule as of today for tourists visa, no more than 90 consecutive days inside the country, that's all.

Anything else is at the discretion of the immigration officer and they are allowed to pretty much do whatever they want and you litterally have no rights when they deny you entry wathever the reason they give you, this 180 days limit is one of those.

 

[freeman01]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

It does, and the taxman is welcome, it's all legitimate, i.e. as long as I follow the rules the government back in my home country has implemented, which I do, there is no issue.

I am assuming you are from a top 5 euro country ? Do you get a thai tax certificate every year ?

[4MyEgo]

52 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

So far! Wait until they get up new systems in the international world just because of money laundring. They will then find the suspicious persons, and also dive down into their economical history. The small tax you could have been paying now, that you look at as a win. Just that might be what comes back and bites you connected to a big a$$ fine!

 

You shall never count your winnings too early. Merry Christmas!

I totally don't get what your saying, you see the laws down under prevent or should I say penalise you as a non resident who owns land, i.e. if I kept my principal place of residence, (my home) where I lived in and leased it/rented it, use whichever term you like, I would then be slugged 32.5c in every dollar earned, with no tax threshold which is provided to every Australian resident, on top of that, they would charge me full capital gains tax from the date I departed the country when I sell up, the above said, as of 1 July 2020 when new legislation comes into effect, any non resident who owns a property which was their principal place of residence will pay capital gains tax from the very first day they purchased that property, yep right up their a$$es.

 

The legislation states that if you as a non resident invest your money into the ASX, Australian Stock Market and purchase shares that are fully franked (tax paid when dividends are paid) you pay zero tax, and no capital gains tax is payable, so in one hand they restrict you, an Australian Citizen of owning property back in your homeland, i.e. unless you are prepare to pay all those taxes, and you are not able to claim any expenses on the property, definitely not fair, but hey, on the other they say invest into our companies and we won't tax you.

 

As for money laundering, there is none from this end, and ING bank found out the hard way recently when they made my account inactive because of this new policy of theirs, "get to know your client" whereas they needed me to provide them with certified documents of where I live in Thailand, which I did twice over the past 2 years, 2017 & 2018, then all of a sudden such me down, fortunately for me I have an account with another bank where I split 50% of my back up funds with ING and that bank so I could still make transfers, but not buy anything online as I don't have a card linked to that account, although that is now in the mail. While I was a customer of ING for over a decade and had 3 mortgages with them, their total incompetence has cost them a client, and another, my wife, I mean is everybody so damn fricken paranoid about money laundering these days, even when you did your 100% checklist when opening the account, knew I had 3 mortgages with them, had certified docs with my Thai address on them, but with the press of a button without warning shut me down. Well who had the last laugh, on the phone, verified security checks and the all transferred to my other account with another bank, to think these clowns have a backlog of 3 weeks isn't my problem, wonder how many customers will or have been doing the same as me, incompetence at this level is not forgivable.

 

Just so you know, everything I do is above the law, and I sleep well at night because of it, loopholes are loopholes aren't they, and they are there for reasons, and income tax is paid so the government can feel good and buy votes, from some low lifes who decide to have 6 kids, pretend their divorced, work for cash and don't pay tax and the government with my tax dollars pays his entire family $70,000 plus AUS plus other benefits because he outsmarts the system, no thanks, the government can't have it both ways, by penalising me to own property, I found a way to within the system, the legitimate way to not pay taxes for these low lives.

 

Living here in the past 4 years has cost me $53 a month, thanks to the Australian government, and that's feeding a family of 6 all up and inclusive of everything, I suppose you could say, I had to move away to live a better financial lifestyle as opposed to feeding those Ct's with my tax dollars.

 

"Don't start me" ????

[4MyEgo]

18 minutes ago, freeman01 said:

I am assuming you are from a top 5 euro country ? Do you get a thai tax certificate every year ?

I am from Australia, I do not need a Thai certificate of any kind as I do not earn an income in Thailand and all my money is made with Australia.

 

The only time I ever paid tax to Thailand was a 20% of a share that was only 50% franked, the company changing the franking rule applied after I purchased it, i.e. they usually paid 100%, so when I sold it, on the 50% unfranked share, I was taxed as follows, 12.5% to Australia, and 20% to Thailand, they have a tax treaty agreement in place.

 

I am all open to listening to any other scenario one might think regarding me paying taxes to Thailand, apart from this new rule from the Thai banks having to collect 15% from the interest I earn from the bank, they can keep the lot...lol

[My 2 cents]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Actually that is not totally correct and has outdated info.

The 90 days in 6 months rule was rescinded in 2008. See: visa exemp tPO 778-2551_en.pdf

That same order started 15 day visa exempt entries at a land border crossing that was rescinded when the order limiting them to 2 per calendar year.

By air there is no written limit on the number of entries or number of days spent when entering the country.

something must have been changed afterwards 2008, since that land border crossings allow 30 day's now... so the TPO 778 can not be valid anymore...

[Matzzon]

55 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

"Don't start me" ????

What? Don´t start you??? You seem to not understand one single little piece of what I posted. ????????????

I was just taking money laundry as an example that they will explain the new system that is eventually coming with. In reality it will have nothing to do with that. As you probably are well aware of, the digital world is expanding and working much closer with eachother. Even between countries.

That means, you are at the moment using Thailand as a tax haven which it is not. By residing in Thailand 183 days or more per year, you are eligible for tax on your earnings.

Now, you can come up with the bright idea, and state that your are not living on earnings from this year when you transfer money. However, in most cases both you and me knows that´s a lie in 99% of all cases. Why that is working now is because they have hard time checking that. That will also change in a couple of years. Then they will also be able to go back in time and claim tax to be payed on previously earned money as well as prosecute you for tax evasion.

 

If you have a tax treaty with Thailand, then that will also state that neither Australia or Thailand is a Tax Haven, and in the end they will collect the tax due.

You know, it´s much better to pay the tax and live straight.

[freeman01]

Living 6 months per year in Thailand on your savings from previous years is not really a feat.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

31 minutes ago, My 2 cents said:

something must have been changed afterwards 2008, since that land border crossings allow 30 day's now... so the TPO 778 can not be valid anymore...

The 15 days part was rescinded when the 2  entries at land borders order went into effect on January 1st 2017. Before that those from the G7 countries got 30 days for a little over 3 years.

[FritsSikkink]

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Actually the long rescinded police order for it said 6 months.

From a side by side comparison of the of the two orders here. visa exemp tPO 778-2551_en.pdf

 

Six months can be more or less than 180 days.

 

 

Six months period can never be less than 180 days.

[My 2 cents]

8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The 15 days part was rescinded when the 2  entries at land borders order went into effect on January 1st 2017. Before that those from the G7 countries got 30 days for a little over 3 years.

any link to the order that did do the rescinding ? My guess is that they rescinded the whole 778 and not just a part of it. 

[phuketrichard]

the only 180 rules since i have been here was back in 84 and lasted till about 1989, that if you stayed in thailand over 180 days and wanted to leave you had to show a tax receipt which varied to the number of days you were in the country since ur last exit and each time you left and it was for a calendar year

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, My 2 cents said:

any link to the order that did do the rescinding ? My guess is that they rescinded the whole 778 and not just a part of it. 

I have never seen the order that removed the 15 days. They did that due to it not being needed due to the 2 entry rule.

The 90 days in 6 months was certainly not brought back to life if that is what you are thinking.

[4MyEgo]

36 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

What? Don´t start you??? You seem to not understand one single little piece of what I posted. ????????????

I was just taking money laundry as an example that they will explain the new system that is eventually coming with. In reality it will have nothing to do with that. As you probably are well aware of, the digital world is expanding and working much closer with eachother. Even between countries.

That means, you are at the moment using Thailand as a tax haven which it is not. By residing in Thailand 183 days or more per year, you are eligible for tax on your earnings.

Now, you can come up with the bright idea, and state that your are not living on earnings from this year when you transfer money. However, in most cases both you and me knows that´s a lie in 99% of all cases. Why that is working now is because they have hard time checking that. That will also change in a couple of years. Then they will also be able to go back in time and claim tax to be payed on previously earned money as well as prosecute you for tax evasion.

 

If you have a tax treaty with Thailand, then that will also state that neither Australia or Thailand is a Tax Haven, and in the end they will collect the tax due.

You know, it´s much better to pay the tax and live straight.

I got everything you are talking about in your previous post, I think the part you don't understand is that Thailand has no rights to my earning in Australia, and if it did, then the Oz government would have to give Thailand 20c in every $ I earned in Australia from the tax that comes out in the dividend payment.

 

They have a tax treaty, it goes like this, hey you Ozzie, you work in Thailand, you are a non resident, but are working overseas, you have to pay Australia on your worldwide income, oh that's right, we have a treaty with the Thai government who taxes you on your income, so we will credit you 20c in every dollar because we have a tax treaty with them, so you only have to pay us 12.5c in every $ up to $80,000AUS then it increase to 17c in every $.

 

The fact that I sold my property 3 years ago can quite easily show that I am living off of the sale proceeds of off my property and the Australian government has no are to to communicate this to the Thai government under the Privacy Act, although it can if it wants to tell them how much I earned in my tax returns from say bank interest earned which is 10% of the interest paid in tax.

 

Either way, I would have a credit due, suffice to say it would be the Oz government who would have to pay the Thai government 20c in every $ that I have earned, but let's not get ahead of myself, I use a pretty good accountant who knows his stuff, the ATO Australian Taxation Office has its website, the tax treaty between Thailand and Australia can easily be found on Google and read.

 

Knock yourself out, I have done my due diligence and like I said, I sleep well at night, besides do you know anything about Australian taxation laws, I figure not, and based on me being a non resident of Australia and earning money from within Australia, Thailand is a tax haven for me, as is Australia, they can't have the cake and eat too, if you see it differently, "please" do send me the link, or just let it ride, because I know what I am talking about !  

[Grusa]

13 hours ago, BritTim said:

First, it very much depends on where you are entering Thailand. If you have little previous history of tourist visits to Thailand, you will almost certainly be able to get two back-to-back visa exempt entries by air (both extended) followed immediately by two back-to-back visa exempt entries by land (both extended) for a total of about eight months unbroken. On the other hand, if you have already spent six months unbroken in Thailand using tourist visas, you might be denied entry on a first visa exempt entry by air, and (if the first is extended) almost certainly face denial at most airports on a further back-to-back visa exempt entry by air.

 

If maxing your time on visa exempt entries, it is highly unlikely that you would be able to get six visa exempt entries by air in a 12 month period. If using frequent visa exempt entries, immigration on entry will look at your total time in country, together with other factors. The decision on whether to treat you as a tourist will vary greatly depending on the airport used, and to some extent on the individual official. There are no hard and fast rules, only relative risks.

Am I alone in thinking that the complex arithmetical calculations described here are way beyond the computational ability of your average immi officer - especially under pressure with a busy queue?

 

No, they just make it up as they go along!

 

 

[tomauasia]

On 12/24/2019 at 11:32 AM, ubonjoe said:

There is no written 180 day rule.

It is just a made up rule used by some immigration officers that say it when denying entry under section 12 of the immigration act.

You can challenge it with a superior 

[oznomad]

4 hours ago, Matzzon said:

What? Don´t start you??? You seem to not understand one single little piece of what I posted. ????????????

I was just taking money laundry as an example that they will explain the new system that is eventually coming with. In reality it will have nothing to do with that. As you probably are well aware of, the digital world is expanding and working much closer with eachother. Even between countries.

That means, you are at the moment using Thailand as a tax haven which it is not. By residing in Thailand 183 days or more per year, you are eligible for tax on your earnings.

Now, you can come up with the bright idea, and state that your are not living on earnings from this year when you transfer money. However, in most cases both you and me knows that´s a lie in 99% of all cases. Why that is working now is because they have hard time checking that. That will also change in a couple of years. Then they will also be able to go back in time and claim tax to be payed on previously earned money as well as prosecute you for tax evasion.

 

If you have a tax treaty with Thailand, then that will also state that neither Australia or Thailand is a Tax Haven, and in the end they will collect the tax due.

You know, it´s much better to pay the tax and live straight.

Matzzon - sorry champ but you have it ALL wrong. 

 

It feels strange to leap to the the defence of 4MyEgo, ???? but he is dealing in facts, whereas your post is an opinion, with no facts.

 

4MyEgo is well within the laws of both countries. Dont point the finger at him just because you dont understand, and/or dont like the laws as they are.

 

Seasons Greetings.

[My 2 cents]

Strange , posts regarding the topic seems to disappear into the nowhere to be found anymore...

Anyhow, imho, the 778 rule is rescinded and the 3 times 30 days ( Visa exempt for tourists) in a 180 day period is alive and kicking...

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, My 2 cents said:

Anyhow, imho, the 778 rule is rescinded and the 3 times 30 days ( Visa exempt for tourists) in a 180 day period is alive and kicking...

No it is not in effect.

It was rescinded due it being a problem for immigration. Having to back into a person's history to determine when the 6 months started and then totaling up the total of the visa exempt entries.

It was a total of 90 days in 6 months not three 30 day entries by the way.