EU may need to extend deadline for trade talks with UK: von der Leyen

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, david555 said:

just that it is the same for u.k. it would be more difficult to find a supplier or a customer  …..is it so difficult see a case mirrored ? What count for one can count for the other too , in more or lesser 

Perhaps you're forgetting the main reason people want to leave. It's the political union with a power base in Brussels that we don't like. It will be worth the extra time and effort to find partners and deals across the globe that are free from the political and fiscal binds that EU membership demands. 

 

An FTA with the EU would also be great, as long as it's a fair deal along the lines of the Canada deal. But if the EU side start demanding anything that eats into our newly gained sovereignty, I suspect Boris will tell them where they can stick it. 

[CG1 Blue]

3 hours ago, candide said:

Ok so It's about health and safety, after all!

 

I don't deny the fact that regulations are more of a problem for SMEs than for big firms. My point is: would it be significantly different after Brexit? These regulations reflect trends affecting all developed countries and demands by their citizens.

 

Additionally, as usual, you wrongly assume that European bureaucrats are not able to listen to relevant claims by SMEs or others. Actually, they do take these claims into  Let's see what I found:

"The SME Circle succeeded in exempting companies from the obligation to register with the competent authorities when transporting less than two tonnes of hazardous waste per year. It is small and medium-sized enterprises especially that work in the craft industry, for example, and use oil rags for cleaning purposes. Without the exemption, the oil rags could have been considered a hazardous substance and the obligation to register would have disproportionately affected these businesses, which account for 2/3 of total employment in the EU."

 

"Another accomplishment in support of SMEs is the increased threshold for reporting duties under the EU Emission Trading System (ETS). Less stringent monitoring and reporting requirements now apply for small emitters who put out less than or up to 50,000 tonnes of CO². Around 13,500 companies will benefit from these rules by not having to employ additional staff."

 

https://www.eppgroup.eu/newsroom/news/sme-circle-delivering-tangible-benefits-for-europe-s-small-businesses

But why should these exemptions have to be fought for? How many SMEs have been forced to close before the exemptions were granted? How many potential SMEs decided against starting up during that time? 

Once we have left the EU our own government can consider new regulatory ideas from the EU, and decide whether or not to adopt them, and to what degree. 

 

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

It's about red tape. Good health and safety protection is expensive and unnecessary regulation adds additional cost.

 

It can be significantly different after Brexit if regulations are applied sensibly. 

 

I did not say or assume that European bureaucrats are not able to listen but your examples of exemptions are specific but too few, too far between and do not alter the costs much for most British SMEs. 

Who cares if the occasional employee loses a hand or something.

Blue passports !!!!!!!!

[samran]

17 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Who cares if the occasional employee loses a hand or something.

Blue passports !!!!!!!!

...and bendy bananas!!!

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, samran said:

I’ve shared the links before so I won’t again, but the EU isn’t going to lose a customer.

 

UK treasury have already said that they will be setting minimal to no tariffs on imports into the UK. Deal or no deal. They are a bunch of uber free traders who’ll follow basic macro economic theory on this one. Free trade good, tariffs bad whatever the situation. I get <deleted> on this board for being too academic from the self proclaimed salt of the earth, master race types. One thing I do know is economists - and this is how they think. They hate tariffs. So do Tories. 
 

The EU doesn’t have to worry about losing the UK as a market. It’s the other way around which is the issue. 

If it makes you feel better, I really don't think that you are too academic, if at all.

[nauseus]

43 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Who cares if the occasional employee loses a hand or something.

Blue passports !!!!!!!!

You said that, not me. Previous and existing British Health and Safety regulations and British standards (BSI) were/are already very good and comprehensive; they were mainly copied by the EU after they realised that they were so far behind the UK. 

 

 

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, samran said:

Aw shucks. If I go out a bash up a darkie and can I join the gang? 

Dunno.

[david555]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

Perhaps you're forgetting the main reason people want to leave. It's the political union with a power base in Brussels that we don't like. It will be worth the extra time and effort to find partners and deals across the globe that are free from the political and fiscal binds that EU membership demands. 

 

An FTA with the EU would also be great, as long as it's a fair deal along the lines of the Canada deal. But if the EU side start demanding anything that eats into our newly gained sovereignty, I suspect Boris will tell them where they can stick it. 

The reason for leaving is not the matter anymore, a done bill (we may hope he for fill that at last ..) in HOC .., so now all your reasons are important for your U.K  but not important to E.U.  you don't like it so you leave period.

All the other nonsense as not democratic E.U. is just for your followers to ease the Brexit , but it does not disturb the E.U. thinking , each to their own  I would say , but it has zero, nothing , nadda influence to E.U. . 

A leaver who wish the organization they are leaving, making to change their rules ….. ri-di-co-lous ….! ????

 

AS a leaver in this , same as a divorcee has to make his own future life  , we don't predict U.K. how to do that …., you want something … e talk …, you don't like it or E.U. don't like  …. end talking simple as Liam Fox said  before ….Brexit  the easiest thing to do ….(BTW he is still amongst the conservatives now …. says enough about the types who populate it …)

 

Just take the WTO route , don't delay , you missed the train to your imaginary Brexit result , you only don't realize it 

[candide]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

But why should these exemptions have to be fought for? How many SMEs have been forced to close before the exemptions were granted? How many potential SMEs decided against starting up during that time? 

Once we have left the EU our own government can consider new regulatory ideas from the EU, and decide whether or not to adopt them, and to what degree. 

 

Good questions? Do you know?

 

By the way, I guess that this Directive has been preceded by a period of public consultation to provide some inputs, and also followed by another consultation after a first draft is published. That's the case with any Directive. So it is most likely that the law has been already improved before the final version was voted.

But, of course, it does not fit Brexiters' caricatural representation of the EU.

Just to give you another clue. Brexiters usually complain about the role played by Germany in decision processes. This country has reached a distinctive economic position thanks to the economic weight of its SMEs. Would the Germans be stupid enough to shoot into their own feet?

[CG1 Blue]

4 minutes ago, david555 said:

The reason for leaving is not the matter anymore, a done bill (we may hope he for fill that at last ..) in HOC .., so now all your reasons are important for your U.K  but not important to E.U.  you don't like it so you leave period.

All the other nonsense as not democratic E.U. is just for your followers to ease the Brexit , but it does not disturb the E.U. thinking , each to their own  I would say , but it has zero, nothing , nadda influence to E.U. . 

A leaver who wish the organization they are leaving, making to change their rules ….. ri-di-co-lous ….! ????

 

AS a leaver in this , same as a divorcee has to make his own future life  , we don't predict U.K. how to do that …., you want something … e talk …, you don't like it or E.U. don't like  …. end talking simple as Liam Fox said  before ….Brexit  the easiest thing to do ….(BTW he is still amongst the conservatives now …. says enough about the types who populate it …)

 

Just take the WTO route , don't delay , you missed the train to your imaginary Brexit result , you only don't realize it 

Let's put this "easiest deal in history" lie to rest. It's tiring hearing pro-EU people repeat this over and over again. What he said made perfect sense, and has simply been edited and taken out of context. He was essentially saying that in theory it should be easy, but in reality politics will get in the way. And that's absolutely the case. 

 

Here's what he said: 

 

“The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the EU should be one of the easiest in human history.

“We are already beginning with zero tariffs, and we are already beginning at the point of maximal regulatory equivalence, as it is called. In other words, our rules and our laws are exactly the same.”

However, he went on to concede that securing a deal would probably not be easy in practice. “The only reason that we wouldn’t come to a free and open agreement is because politics gets in the way of economics” 

 

 

 

[CG1 Blue]

4 minutes ago, candide said:

Good questions? Do you know?

 

By the way, I guess that this Directive has been preceded by a period of public consultation to provide some inputs, and also followed by another consultation after a first draft is published. That's the case with any Directive. So it is most likely that the law has been already improved before the final version was voted.

But, of course, it does not fit Brexiters' caricatural representation of the EU.

Just to give you another clue. Brexiters usually complain about the role played by Germany in decision processes. This country has reached a distinctive economic position thanks to the economic weight of its SMEs. Would the Germans be stupid enough to shoot into their own feet?

Each country has a different make up of businesses, industries and beliefs. That's why these rules need to be made at country level - IMHO 

[nauseus]

16 minutes ago, candide said:

Good questions? Do you know?

 

By the way, I guess that this Directive has been preceded by a period of public consultation to provide some inputs, and also followed by another consultation after a first draft is published. That's the case with any Directive. So it is most likely that the law has been already improved before the final version was voted.

But, of course, it does not fit Brexiters' caricatural representation of the EU.

Just to give you another clue. Brexiters usually complain about the role played by Germany in decision processes. This country has reached a distinctive economic position thanks to the economic weight of its SMEs. Would the Germans be stupid enough to shoot into their own feet?

I disagree. Germany has reached a distinctive economic position thanks to its well managed large exporting industries and the Euro itself.

[nauseus]

21 hours ago, Chelseafan said:

Even if we get a deal done by next December, aren't we still paying into the EU for the next 4-5 years on the current deal?

 

Something horrible like that.

[david555]

48 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Let's put this "easiest deal in history" lie to rest. It's tiring hearing pro-EU people repeat this over and over again. What he said made perfect sense, and has simply been edited and taken out of context. He was essentially saying that in theory it should be easy, but in reality politics will get in the way. And that's absolutely the case. 

 

Here's what he said: 

 

“The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the EU should be one of the easiest in human history.

“We are already beginning with zero tariffs, and we are already beginning at the point of maximal regulatory equivalence, as it is called. In other words, our rules and our laws are exactly the same.”

However, he went on to concede that securing a deal would probably not be easy in practice. “The only reason that we wouldn’t come to a free and open agreement is because politics gets in the way of economics” 

 

 

 

Fact stays the same ...politics came in the way ....is he not a politician too....?

Same as Boris in a strong U.K. position thinks that go give him rope ......half june he shall go twist around with another one liner for his ever swallowing lies followers i reckon....politics standing in the way ...yes the whole politic consrvatives catfight under Cameron started it ...

The French have a phrase ...excuses sont fait pour senservir ....meaning ; excuses are maid to use them ...

 

politics came in the way ....lol 555

 

 

Edited December 30, 2019 by david555

[david555]

@Dundee...you never give a comment only sad emoticon ...?...something wrong ... are you in a depression .????..as naussues also give much smileys ( he is sure a happy man ....) but he give postings too  ????

Or maybe no opinion ...come on Dundee give it a try...! ????

 

 

[candide]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

I disagree. Germany has reached a distinctive economic position thanks to its well managed large exporting industries and the Euro itself.

Germany is around 10 % above UK on each criteria for the share of Smes in the economy.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/26563/attachments/1/translations/en/renditions/native&ved=2ahUKEwjfpez_iN7mAhUF2-AKHRsWDygQFjAKegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw2liRzjYCHy-9Vj3D70n8Rn

 

Yes Germany exports and the % of exporting SMEs is more than twice as in UK. Is it bad?

[welovesundaysatspace]

 

Quote

if the UK is running a trade deficit with the EU, then the EU stands a lot more to lose in a WTO situation than the UK does. It should be an order of magnitude easier for the UK to find a new supplier, than it would be for the EU to find a new customer.

Trade deficits are irrelevant when answering the question of whom needs whom more. Most Brexiteers still haven’t understood that because they just copy/paste the nonsense of other brexiteers. 

 

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

 

Trade deficits are irrelevant when answering the question of whom needs whom more.  

 

Its not irrelevant at all , The E.U countries will want to get deals done with the UK as it would be beneficial to their own Countries .

[welovesundaysatspace]

13 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Its not irrelevant at all , The E.U countries will want to get deals done with the UK as it would be beneficial to their own Countries .

Of course everyone wants that, but the priority will always be on the single market rather than the UK market. That’s something you see when you look at other numbers than trade deficits. 

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Of course everyone wants that, but the priority will always be on the single market rather than the UK market. That’s something you see when you look at other numbers than trade deficits. 

Well yes, the E.U will prioritise the E.U single market and the U.K will prioritise its own market and they will discuss and negotiate .

   

[kingdong]

On 12/27/2019 at 12:20 PM, DannyCarlton said:

But Johnson and his backers do.

And the voters in" the people's election "

[welovesundaysatspace]

7 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Well yes, the E.U will prioritise the E.U single market and the U.K will prioritise its own market and they will discuss and negotiate .

   

Yes, and if they can’t find an agreement, 50% of the UK’s exports will be affected whereas only 7-8% of the EU’s export will be affected. Again, something that trade deficits don’t tell you. 

[sanemax]

24 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Yes, and if they can’t find an agreement, 50% of the UK’s exports will be affected whereas only 7-8% of the EU’s export will be affected. Again, something that trade deficits don’t tell you. 

The UK can make trade deals with all the other Countries in the world, European Countries cannot do that .

  Our mate Donald has stated that "we" had some "huge" deals in the pipeline to sign after we had left the E.U

Edited December 30, 2019 by sanemax

[Monomial]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

 

Trade deficits are irrelevant when answering the question of whom needs whom more. Most Brexiteers still haven’t understood that because they just copy/paste the nonsense of other brexiteers. 

 

 

This is a really good question. Whom does need whom more? And let's not recycle things that have already been said, because that might be considered "nonsense". How about some original thought going all the way back to first principles. It might even help those who still don't understand brexit to see why the average man was in favor of it.

 

Let's start with an aphorism. "Bill Gates walks into a bar, and everyone becomes a millionaire...on average."  The "on average" statement is the interesting point here. Because it is that "on average" that most economists and those who are wealthy use to decide what is good for the economy, and that directly leads back to "whom needs whom". But "on average" is meaningless to most people. It disproportionately advantages those who are already benefitting from the status quo. If you are one of the many who are being forced to pay for the status quo while the bulk of the benefits go to upper middle class salaries and investors, then suddenly traditional, "obvious" logic gets flipped on its head.

 

In fact, what many poor have already realized, and why brexit is so interesting, is that the more the UK suffers "on average", the better off they become, relatively speaking. Just like benefits from the current situation are distributed disproprotianately, the pain is also going to be distributed disproportianately. And the average poor sod in the UK, who is getting little benefit from membership in the EU, is also not going to notice as much pain from exiting the EU.

 

So when asking "whom needs whom", the answer is: "anyone currently benefitting from the situation needs those who are currently suffering".  So who is benefitting more from the current situation? Whoever is getting the bulk of the benefits today is the one who needs the other. I will leave it to the collective intelligence of TV to decide who has largely benefitted from the relationship over the last few decades. But one thing is for certain. The hourly wage earners of the UK who by and large voted for brexit are not going to suffer nearly as much as the investors and salaried middle class on both sides. Open borders and free trade benefits business and investors, not the workers. Closing borders and tariffs may make things worse "on average", but they make things *relatively* better for laborers.

 

So "whom needs whom"?  Whatever the answer to that question ultimately turns out to be in detail, it is likely going to be that the rich need the poor, rather than the alternative. And that means that the pervasive, economic thoughts of today, that beauracratic globalism is dissolute, is going to be increasingly discarded in favor of nationalism. And in that sense, the EU would do well to listen the meaning behind brexit. In a real sense, the EU absolutely needs the UK. Not necessarily as a trading partner, but as a beacon to light what is coming in the future.

 

 

 

[Loiner]

6 hours ago, samran said:

 I get <deleted> on this board for being too academic from the self proclaimed salt of the earth, master race types. One thing I do know is economists - and this is how they think. They hate tariffs. So do Tories. 
 

The EU doesn’t have to worry about losing the UK as a market. It’s the other way around which is the issue. 

Any <deleted> you get on this board is because you deserve it. Your know-nothing armchair economics theories are all wrong. Whydontcha try a bar stool to learn about real world economics instead of your sanctimonious twaddle? You might even learn why the EU is now running so scared about losing UK contributions and possibly lucrative markets, while the UK has everything to gain.

 

You can't even properly quote what you have supposedly 'checked'. When did Samranism declare that UK's trade balance had to be a surplus to be punching above its weight? The UK has been running a huge trade deficit with the EU for years and still contributing to subsidise their peasant economies. That's punching above its' weight, positive or negative.

 

On 12/29/2019 at 6:19 PM, Loiner said:

The UK’s trade balance with all parties means it punches way above its weight. This is despite what the Remainers and Johnny Foreigner would try have everybody believe. 

 

On 12/29/2019 at 8:13 PM, samran said:

 

And, I just fact checked old Loiners claim about the UK having a trade surplus.

 

According to your own parliament, you actually have a trade defect with the EU. So much then about punching above your weight.

 

Better ask an adult before you make anymore posts mate?

[sanemax]

5 hours ago, samran said:

Aw shucks. If I go out a bash up a darkie and can I join the gang? 

I really dont think racist language like that should be tolerated on here .

Calling people "darkies" just isnt acceptable these days 

[sanemax]

6 hours ago, samran said:

I get <deleted> on this board for being too academic from the self proclaimed salt of the earth, master race types.

Its highly likely you get ****** on this board is because you label people as Nazis, because who disagree with your viewpoint .

  *You are right, everyone else is wrong and the the wrong people are Nazis*

[david555]

4 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I really dont think racist language like that should be tolerated on here .

Calling people "darkies" just isnt acceptable these days 

If that trend go on and on we go end with a very poor language as many words would be banned aswel as occupations or professions ....or shape or color hair etc....

[sanemax]

Just now, david555 said:

If that trend go on and on we go end with a very poor language as many words would be banned aswel as occupations or professions ....or shape or color hair etc....

It really wouldnt , no words are getting banned, its just wrong to racially abuse people .

  Posting about carrying out racial attacks and racially abusing Black people just isnt acceptable in 2019

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.   Please stay on topic.