Seems to be a crackdown on Airbnb in BkK

[Hanaguma]

I guess from an outsider's point of view it is strange- here in Japan, condo occupancy rates are generally well over 90%. So the presence or absence of a few people isn't noticeable. When you are used to a building that is only half full (the other half being unsold units or absentee owners), I can see how it might be annoying.  However, if the building is full, either with owners or tenants, what's the difference?  Call security or the police on any who are loud and annoying. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Elkski said:

I can understand both sides.  Its illegal to rent for under 30 days.  Plus I think its in many condo rules.   

If short term rentals are stopped 100% I would imagine the condo resale value and  over 30 day rental rates would go down. 

I commonly see s new higher condo going up next to a condo I stay at.  Blocking the view, sunlight, as well as the noise for what must be years.   This seems like this would totally  destroy condos resale value? 

I guess there is no way to forsee  or protect from this?  

I also think by looking at lights on from the outside and a li so how rare it is s to run into someone on my floor I think many condos have a <40% active living rate.    Do people buy these for investment?  Or just so much money they want a place to stay when they visit?

Nice posting.  Thank you.  One of the reasons I am so against Air BnB is that it is creating DEMAND for more condos because owners use them as a tandem long term investment with short term revenue to fund the mortgage.  (Kind of ironic if you think about it)  If this is not nipped in the bud, Bangkok will see more, and more, and more of these "ghost buildings" ... What Bangkok needs is to maximize capacity and have these buildings with people LIVING in them.  Air BnB is a combination of greed, lack of respect for the law and owner's rights, and a short sighted understanding of the breaking point in terms of over building.  By the way, to answer your question, a lot of the condos being purchased by absentee owners comes from abroad, and is often part of massive money laundering schemes and tax avoidance investing.  When new projects are proposed, there is a "privileged few" queue to purchase units in blocks "off plan", at a discount, ensuring high net worth investors a comfortable cushion ... meaning ... if you buy something at 10% discount, and worst case, you just sell it at retail when the project is done ... still a pretty good day.  So, they buy a bunch of condos, let Air BnB managers pay the mortgage, and end up with lots of property.  In short, they are in the Hotel business .. with the general cost distributed to ALL the owners!

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

I guess from an outsider's point of view it is strange- here in Japan, condo occupancy rates are generally well over 90%. So the presence or absence of a few people isn't noticeable. When you are used to a building that is only half full (the other half being unsold units or absentee owners), I can see how it might be annoying.  However, if the building is full, either with owners or tenants, what's the difference?  Call security or the police on any who are loud and annoying. 

Sir, talking to you is like watching a dog chase its own tail.  Let me give you an example.  We have a wonderful pool, which we collectively PAID to have 100% rebuilt last year.  The left side is sort of "family side" with Moms and Kids .. and the right side has a few lanes for swimming laps.  Every afternoon, I swim laps ... But some days ... Air BnB people are swimming laps, or just STANDING in the lane like mindless cows.  There is a limited number of chairs around the pool, and they fill them up.  So, long story short .. they have "no skin in the game" .. but suck up one of our most valuable resources.  Ditto the gymnasium.  There is a limited supply of machines .. but then again ... there they are ... and WE have to WAIT for THEM!  Does this sound FAIR to you????  REALLY?  Of course not, because you are SELFISH and your "logic" is self serving! I honesty do not care about you, or Japan .. I care about my wife, her safety, my happy days, and accept the price of ownership and maintenance of our lovely, clean, quite, sane condo. I would really appreciate it if you would stay the "F" out of our building!

[allencraig]

18 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

I guess from an outsider's point of view it is strange- here in Japan, condo occupancy rates are generally well over 90%. So the presence or absence of a few people isn't noticeable. When you are used to a building that is only half full (the other half being unsold units or absentee owners), I can see how it might be annoying.  However, if the building is full, either with owners or tenants, what's the difference?  Call security or the police on any who are loud and annoying. 

Unfortunately in Thailand, "Call security or the police on any who are loud and annoying" doesn't get any action, unless it's a huge security risk or criminal act or something. Thailand ain't Japan that's for sure.

[ThomasThBKK]

46 minutes ago, bangkokequity said:

OK, first off, I was addressing his "solution" which is the Condo Owners need to "police" Air BNB guests!  Sort of ironic? Yes?
Second, if they want to stop building condos in Bangkok, OWNERS would REJOICE ... because demand will still grow ... in a shorter supply side ... so our equity INCREASES. Third. Bangkok can not support more buildings, and it at its limit to handle the traffic and pollution.  In short, you can not state one thing about "more condo buildings" that is good for present condo owners.  in fact, my incredible view is going to be destroyed next year by another project 200 meters away ... so ... "not a fan."

 

Your equity doesn't go up if no one is buying anymore because there's no rental yield... jeez. Nowadays you can barely pay of a mortgage with a renter in Thailand, which is absoluely no issue in a functioning market and the only reason people buy RE.

 

 

7 minutes ago, bangkokequity said:

Sir, talking to you is like watching a dog chase its own tail.  Let me give you an example.  We have a wonderful pool, which we collectively PAID to have 100% rebuilt last year.  The left side is sort of "family side" with Moms and Kids .. and the right side has a few lanes for swimming laps.  Every afternoon, I swim laps ... But some days ... Air BnB people are swimming laps, or just STANDING in the lane like mindless cows.  There is a limited number of chairs around the pool, and they fill them up.  So, long story short .. they have "no skin in the game" .. but suck up one of our most valuable resources.  Ditto the gymnasium.  There is a limited supply of machines .. but then again ... there they are ... and WE have to WAIT for THEM!  Does this sound FAIR to you????  REALLY?  Of course not, because you are SELFISH and your "logic" is self serving! I honesty do not care about you, or Japan .. I care about my wife, her safety, my happy days, and accept the price of ownership and maintenance of our lovely, clean, quite, sane condo. I would really appreciate it if you would stay the "F" out of our building!

 

So you are complaining that you aren't the only one that's using a shared pool and gym after you bought a condo in a shared living place.... 

 

Sounds like you made a <deleted>ty investment; buying a condo and expecting everything to be empty when there are hundreds of people living is just lol. Same for people who buy for a view and expect that there will be no new condos built in their way ????

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, allencraig said:

Unfortunately in Thailand, "Call security or the police on any who are loud and annoying" doesn't get any action, unless it's a huge security risk or criminal act or something. Thailand ain't Japan that's for sure.

Allen ... SO spot on!  Call security at 2:00 AM and get them to tell an Air BnB party to shut up? N-E-V-E-R going to happen!  I know, because I tried that ... and finally just had to knock on the door and handle it myself.  There is always a second choice ... call the Police and have those people in some real hot water ... which to me seems a bit dramatic.  Getting a little tired of our friend from Japan who will not ever accept the fact ... we do not want Air BnB in our buildings .. but (boo hoo) ... that ruins his holiday plans.  Have a great 2563 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

Your equity doesn't go up if no one is buying anymore because there's no rental yield... jeez. Nowadays you can barely pay of a mortgage with a renter in Thailand, which is absoluely no issue in a functioning market and the only reason people buy RE.

 

 

 

So you are complaining that you aren't the only one that's using a shared pool and gym after you bought a condo in a shared living place.... 

 

Sounds like you made a <deleted>ty investment; buying a condo and expecting everything to be empty when there are hundreds of people living is just lol. Same for people who buy for a view and expect that there will be no new condos built in their way ????

Reading is fundamental my friend.  We have almost NO ONE using the facilities in the afternoon, because most owners in this building WORK every day.  It is BLISSFUL living here ... so excuse my if I don't want strangers in my building!  if you would give me your address and access to the building, I would be delighted to come and wonder aimlessly around your pool!

I was trying to paint a picture as an EXAMPLE of a finite resource being depleted by "Non paying / non participating" poachers.  But, this is Thai Visa .. so that was a fool's mission.  Ironically, the pool is 100% EMPTY now .. so I will take my swim!  555!  

Edited January 6, 2020 by Guest

[ThomasThBKK]

Just now, bangkokequity said:

Reading is fundamental my friend.  We have almost NO ONE using the facilities in the afternoon, because most owners in this building WORK every day.  It is BLISSFUL living here ... so excuse my if I don't want strangers in my building!  if you would give me your address and access to the building, I would be delighted to come and wonder aimlessly around your pool!

 

We have private pools, i don't like sharing.

 

But yeah u can hang around if you bring some gin ????

 

So you got lucky before that no one is around and you are the only unemployed one there, would you still complain if it was filled with retirees who long term own it and swim all day...?

 

Buying a condo and expecting to be the only one to use facilities is hilarious.

[mokwit]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

I think the difference is that so many Thai condos are actually only half occupied, if that. So those that DO live there get used to it being very quiet and peaceful since the building is actually housing far fewer people than if it were fully occupied.  Hence the stress when more people show up. 

We are happy with it that way and don't want it spoilt by illegal stayers thank you. It is not your condo so it is not for you to say how things should be. How is it any concern of someone staying illegally? Where are AirBnBers getting this idea that we are obligated to share it with you because that would be nice. The sense of entitlement is astounding.

Edited January 6, 2020 by mokwit

[URMySunshine]

On 12/28/2019 at 11:00 PM, CygnusX1 said:

Whatever the rights and wrongs of short term rental, it would be a disaster for the tourist industry if there was a serious crackdown. Not so much in Bangkok, but in some of the seaside resorts.

There was life before Uber/AirBnB and all these other tech 'disruptors' trying to get their greedy share of the pie. And a very nice life it was too. 

[meand]

50 minutes ago, bangkokequity said:

Sir, talking to you is like watching a dog chase its own tail.  Let me give you an example.  We have a wonderful pool, which we collectively PAID to have 100% rebuilt last year.  The left side is sort of "family side" with Moms and Kids .. and the right side has a few lanes for swimming laps.  Every afternoon, I swim laps ... But some days ... Air BnB people are swimming laps, or just STANDING in the lane like mindless cows.  There is a limited number of chairs around the pool, and they fill them up.  So, long story short .. they have "no skin in the game" .. but suck up one of our most valuable resources.  Ditto the gymnasium.  There is a limited supply of machines .. but then again ... there they are ... and WE have to WAIT for THEM!  Does this sound FAIR to you????  REALLY?  Of course not, because you are SELFISH and your "logic" is self serving! I honesty do not care about you, or Japan .. I care about my wife, her safety, my happy days, and accept the price of ownership and maintenance of our lovely, clean, quite, sane condo. I would really appreciate it if you would stay the "F" out of our building!

You just accused the poster of being selfish and then went on to say you want community amenities all to yourself. You then went on to state you do not care about anything but your wife, and your happiness. Do you know what selfish means? 

[mokwit]

4 minutes ago, meand said:

You just accused the poster of being selfish and then went on to say you want community amenities all to yourself.

When you have long stayers you can often pick a time for the pool or the gym where you have it to yourself, which lets face it is the ideal but not a right [as far as use by legal occupants]. Having ST AirBnBers make it difficult to pick a time and being illegal I don't see what right they have tio use the facilities even though the condo ownership bestows those rights to those legally in the condo..

Edited January 6, 2020 by mokwit

[meand]

35 minutes ago, mokwit said:

We are happy with it that way and don't want it spoilt by illegal stayers thank you. It is not your condo so it is not for you to say how things should be. How is it any concern of someone staying illegally? Where are AirBnBers getting this idea that we are obligated to share it with you because that would be nice. The sense of entitlement is astounding.

How do you propose the building is to find the "illegal stayers"? How do you know who is "illegal"? I will give you a hint, when other people own property, this is none of your business. It is tantamount to trying to enforce an oral sex law. Simply impossible. 

[mokwit]

2 minutes ago, meand said:

How do you propose the building is to find the "illegal stayers"? How do you know who is "illegal"? I will give you a hint, when other people own property, this is none of your business. It is tantamount to trying to enforce an oral sex law. Simply impossible. 

It is my business if they are renting illegally - proving it is indeed difficult - there is not really any counter to the 'cousins visiting from China' which if true is within the rights of the owner.

[meand]

2 minutes ago, mokwit said:

When you have long stayers you can often pick a time for the pool or the gym where you have it to yourself, which lets face it is the ideal but not a right [as far as use by legal occupants]. Having ST AirBnBers make it difficult to pick a time and being illegal I don't see what right they have tio use the facilities even though the condo ownership bestows those rights to those legally in the condo..

I do not know how many "illegal" occupants you have seen. But one problem is until you prove them to be illegal somehow with documentation, it is just words. It means nothing. Maybe they own a condo and vacation there once a year. You simply have no idea and there is no way to find out without violating owner rights. If they have a key and room access they are "legal" until proven otherwise. 

[mokwit]

5 minutes ago, meand said:

I do not know how many "illegal" occupants you have seen. But one problem is until you prove them to be illegal somehow with documentation, it is just words. It means nothing. Maybe they own a condo and vacation there once a year. You simply have no idea and there is no way to find out without violating owner rights. If they have a key and room access they are "legal" until proven otherwise. 

That might be the practicality of it but we both know commercial ST letting is taking place and that is not legal. If ST renters have a key and room access they are in breach of the law. I abstain from saying anything to people whatever I might suspect, because I don't KNOW and it is not really appropriate to challenge people who might well be staying legally. I have to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Edited January 6, 2020 by mokwit

[ChipButty]

4 hours ago, allencraig said:

None of this would be a problem if people could just show a little f*cking consideration toward other people. How hard is that?

 

Personally, I don't care if there are short-term renters in my condo at The Trendy—IF they could just be quiet. But that's too much to ask, especially for certain ethnic groups I've noticed.

 

I'm sick and tired and having to have a "conversation" every three days with the newcomers on either side of my condo. I'm tired of being woken up at 1am, I'm tired of doors and cabinets slamming day and night, and I'm tired of way-too-loud TV noise. 

 

This is not an AirBnB issue necessarily. It's an issue of selfish, inconsiderate, and entitled attitudes that sadly most people have and bring with them wherever they go.

 

(1111 by the way, doesn't seem to know where to refer me. They offered 1116 which is the office of "consumer protection".)

You are right, Ive stayed in some of the best 5 star hotels and I have had to complain about the noise from certain groups like you say

[Salerno]

9 hours ago, ChipButty said:

No they dont, any cameras have to be disclosed and where they are located, putting cameras inside your property airbnb will close your account down if any guest finds them

So basically, yes they do. I never said anything about hidden cameras 

[Guest]

Just for the record ... our condo posted these on each floor, on each elevator station, and a massive sign in the lobby .. we really don't have much of an Air BnB problem anymore ... but it is amusing to see Air BnB people "pucker" when they read it.  We had a person with 7 units actively renting.  This sign went up .. they sold all, and went back to their home country.  Like I keep posting ... I am in the SOLUTIONS business.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

We have private pools, i don't like sharing.

 

But yeah u can hang around if you bring some gin ????

 

So you got lucky before that no one is around and you are the only unemployed one there, would you still complain if it was filled with retirees who long term own it and swim all day...?

 

Buying a condo and expecting to be the only one to use facilities is hilarious.

You have completely lost the thread my friend ... this is NOT about rightful owners .. this is about POACHERS breaking the law and creating problems.  

[mokwit]

Fact is AirBnBers like AirBnB lets because they are living beyond their means at others expense - if they like having a fridge and whatnot why don't they rent a serviced apartment? - we know why, because something that reflects the real cost is beyond their means/more than they want to pay. They prefer the low cost that comes from breaking the law/regulatory arbitrage.

[Beggar]

I don't understand why only Airbnb is the culprit. Here in Pattaya very many older condos have been rented out to tourists for decades - long before Airbnb and others existed. If I look down to the pool it is only occupied by such tourists. They book directly using the websites of such room providers. And we owners staying here have to pay for such people doing business in our condo complex. The management here works with them and does not care about the law. It does not seem to be enforced much anyway. 

[CygnusX1]

7 hours ago, bangkokequity said:

  I had a bunch next door ... who woke us up at 2:00 AM. two days in a row.  I knocked on the door, and we had "the talk."  They were gone the next morning.  And .. that condo owner stopped renting out his condo.  I am a problem solver .. and if you invade my space, break the law, and thumb your nose at me ... I will resolve that ... quickly.

Good on you for that, I hate selfish pieces of s*** like that as well. But it seems to me that you were able to resolve the problem so fast simply because they were short term tenants. If it had been a long term tenant or indeed owner it would have been way harder. OK, I suppose since the noise was at 2am it could have been a police matter, but in my flat in Australia I’ve had neighbours, long term tenants, who’ve played loud music in the daytime, for the entire day, every day, and there’s absolutely nothing you can do about that. At least with short term tenants, they’re soon gone, by definition.

The vast majority, whether short or long term tenants or owners, are decent people, but if you are unlucky enough to get a long term psycho tenant as a neighbour, you could be stuck with them for years, instead of a week.

The block in Thailand in which I own a condo is busy now, with some longish waits for the lifts, but if it was occupied solely by long term tenants and owners it would be like that all year. I’ve also had no problems whatsoever with noise from neighbours, unlike in Australia, where my block of flats has exclusively long term tenants and owners.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, CygnusX1 said:

Good on you for that, I hate selfish pieces of s*** like that as well. But it seems to me that you were able to resolve the problem so fast simply because they were short term tenants. If it had been a long term tenant or indeed owner it would have been way harder. OK, I suppose since the noise was at 2am it could have been a police matter, but in my flat in Australia I’ve had neighbours, long term tenants, who’ve played loud music in the daytime, for the entire day, every day, and there’s absolutely nothing you can do about that. At least with short term tenants, they’re soon gone, by definition.

The vast majority, whether short or long term tenants or owners, are decent people, but if you are unlucky enough to get a long term psycho tenant as a neighbour, you could be stuck with them for years, instead of a week.

The block in Thailand in which I own a condo is busy now, with some longish waits for the lifts, but if it was occupied solely by long term tenants and owners it would be like that all year. I’ve also had no problems whatsoever with noise from neighbours, unlike in Australia, where my block of flats has exclusively long term tenants and owners.

This thread is about Air BnB short term rentals.  The fact is ... when we got the condo, I visited it at all hours of the day and night for a week, and was delighted that next door, across the hall were always empty.  And the one common wall was a lovely older couple.  Then we committed to it. That is why I was furious when the owner tried the Air BnB thing ... so I nipped that in the bud.

[Ron jeremy]

40 minutes ago, bangkokequity said:

This thread is about Air BnB short term rentals.  The fact is ... when we got the condo, I visited it at all hours of the day and night for a week, and was delighted that next door, across the hall were always empty.  And the one common wall was a lovely older couple.  Then we committed to it. That is why I was furious when the owner tried the Air BnB thing ... so I nipped that in the bud.

Sorry to hear your investment and retirement have turned into such a nightmare. 

Did you actually beleive the condo would remain empty? You would have the floor and pool all to yourself??? 

Whos selfish?

you have no way of telling if it's family or friends using the pool.didnt you tell them to get out while you do laps?

and how dare anyone else use the gymnasium! 

And how could that developer build another condo next door and block your view?

and why would anyone want to make noise enjoying themselves on vacation.?

its a good thing u told them it's not acceptable.

perhaps the other tenants are complaining about the senile old man that thinks he owns the place!

perhaps u would have been better off going the Airbnb route and not buying in the first place?

 

 

Edited January 6, 2020 by Ron jeremy

[Traubert]

11 hours ago, bangkokequity said:

Sir, talking to you is like watching a dog chase its own tail.  Let me give you an example.  We have a wonderful pool, which we collectively PAID to have 100% rebuilt last year.  The left side is sort of "family side" with Moms and Kids .. and the right side has a few lanes for swimming laps.  Every afternoon, I swim laps ... But some days ... Air BnB people are swimming laps, or just STANDING in the lane like mindless cows.  There is a limited number of chairs around the pool, and they fill them up.  So, long story short .. they have "no skin in the game" .. but suck up one of our most valuable resources.  Ditto the gymnasium.  There is a limited supply of machines .. but then again ... there they are ... and WE have to WAIT for THEM!  Does this sound FAIR to you????  REALLY?  Of course not, because you are SELFISH and your "logic" is self serving! I honesty do not care about you, or Japan .. I care about my wife, her safety, my happy days, and accept the price of ownership and maintenance of our lovely, clean, quite, sane condo. I would really appreciate it if you would stay the "F" out of our building!

Another pugnacious, entitled farang who is trying to re-write the rules.

 

No wonder it's getting difficult at immigration.

 

American I'll be bound. Me me me.

[Hanaguma]

Hey Bangkok Equity. Sounds like you need to live in a private home, not a building with shared facilities.  Like you said, if you can't afford the lifestyle, don't complain.  If you want a quiet pool and gym with nobody else, you chose the wrong place to live my friend. Can't have your cake and eat it too.  

 

The common facilities are paid for by you, but also by the owners of Airbnb rentals.  Nobody is getting a free ride. Except you, because you feel entitled to enjoy common areas without dealing with other people.  Doesn't matter if the person next door is an owner, a renter, or whatever. A cvnt is a cvnt and should be dealt with the same way. 

[Ron jeremy]

Funny how you don't hear people bitching when they sell their condo( at a profit) to a Chinese or other buyer that is using it for rental, and personal use.if it wasn't for these people, most condos would be half full, and worth half price. But then they bitch when they move into the next condo and its full of renters. 

And they sure are cracking down, I think they had to hire 2 full time security staff at the Base, to deal with the daily crowds of renters in the parking lot waiting to get in.

on another note, I would be hesitant on banging on someone's door at 2 am reading them the riot act telling them to keep the noise down! This ain't America, TIT, there could be low handrails on the neighbours balcony.

anyways, enjoy your stay.

[sandyf]

21 hours ago, allencraig said:

None of this would be a problem if people could just show a little f*cking consideration toward other people. How hard is that?

 

Personally, I don't care if there are short-term renters in my condo at The Trendy—IF they could just be quiet. But that's too much to ask, especially for certain ethnic groups I've noticed.

 

I'm sick and tired and having to have a "conversation" every three days with the newcomers on either side of my condo. I'm tired of being woken up at 1am, I'm tired of doors and cabinets slamming day and night, and I'm tired of way-too-loud TV noise. 

 

This is not an AirBnB issue necessarily. It's an issue of selfish, inconsiderate, and entitled attitudes that sadly most people have and bring with them wherever they go.

 

(1111 by the way, doesn't seem to know where to refer me. They offered 1116 which is the office of "consumer protection".)

Exactly. I have been a timeshare owner for 35 years, in the early days of a development it is common practice for the developer to let out some of the units to tour operators. Same problems, anti social behaviour is nothing new and just as prevalent in other countries.

[sandyf]

14 hours ago, Beggar said:

I don't understand why only Airbnb is the culprit.

Mainly ignorance, many have come to use Airbnb as a cover for all forms of accommodation advertising. Easier than condemning notices on lampposts and doors.

Bit like the old days when everyone called a vacuum cleaner a "Hoover"