VOID stamped on my Tourist Visa in HCM

[cerox]

Saigon consulate wanted my old passport too.

I did not have it. They were displeased. Whether you think it is a "law" or "rule" what you need or do not need, does not matter. They simply do not give you a visa.

[dcnx]

1 hour ago, cerox said:

Saigon consulate wanted my old passport too.

Whether you think it is a "law" or "rule" what you need or do not need, does not matter. They simply do not give you a visa.

Living life in a constant state of uncertainty based on the interpretation of rules that often do not even exist. Good times.

[Chivas]

14 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

This is the first time I hear about the necessity of showing one's old passport when applying for a visa at a Thai embassy or consulate with a new passport. When and where did this happen to you?

Indeed as soon as mine is replaced the old one is shreaded the same day as per standard procedure

Edited December 30, 2019 by Chivas

[elviajero]

3 hours ago, Max69xl said:

You don't need to show your old passport after obtaining a new one as a tourist. There's no such rule. Who told you that? 

They can ask for whatever additional documents they want. So if an embassy want to make a rule about old passports, they can.

 

From the MFA website:

 

2. TOURIST VISA 

	1. REQUIREMENT
	This type of visa is issued to applicants who wish to enter the Kingdom for tourism purposes .
	2. DOCUMENTS REQUIRED
	- Passport or travel document with validity not less than 6 months   - Visa application form completely filled out   - Recent( 4 x 6 cm.) photograph of the applicant   - Evidence of travel from Thailand (air ticket paid in full)   - Evidence of adequate finance (20,000 Baht per person and 40,000 Baht per family)   - Consular officers reserve the rights to request additional documents as deemed necessary

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15398-Issuance-of-Visa.html

 

The Thai authorities, in one way or another, have countered every move serial tourists have made to counter the clampdown. I’m not surprised if this is happening.

Edited December 30, 2019 by elviajero

[Letseng]

18 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

I agree. I'm starting to think with fact I spend few weeks outside los and few weeks Japan and few weeks back in AU per year. Not to mention weekend every month in Saigon etc etc. Why do I bother with non O extensions based on retirement. That's makes me maintain funds in bank. 

Do I  need to get an ed visa to top it off 

 

Get a non-imm O ME from a Thai embassy/consulate where you live. You need to be over 50 and show finance in an account somewhere in the world. I needed to show 20,000€ in Nov. at RT Vienna embassy. Visa fee was 175€.

 

[elviajero]

15 minutes ago, dcnx said:

Living life in a constant state of uncertainty based on the interpretation of rules that often do not even exist. Good times.

I think ‘serial tourists’ should have got the message by now!
 

The game’s nearly over. Once electronic applications fully kick in worldwide it will be over.

 

Those still playing the game need a plan B, and shouldn’t be surprised when the ever developing clampdown catches up with them.

[DrJack54]

14 minutes ago, Letseng said:

Get a non-imm O ME from a Thai embassy/consulate where you live. You need to be over 50 and show finance in an account somewhere in the world. I needed to show 20,000€ in Nov. at RT Vienna embassy. Visa fee was 175€.

 

I'm not married. Also my post was bit tongue in cheek. I live in Thailand on annual extensions based on retirement. My point was that why should I jump through hoops with money in bank requirements etc if I could simply live in los say 200+days of year using visa exempt and tourist visas.

When I first came to Thailand and started living here I just obtained visa exempt entries as I leave Los every month. Easy going then. Did that for couple of years. Maybe 2011-2013

No possible now.

Edited December 30, 2019 by DrJack54

[BigT73]

6 hours ago, travelerjim said:

Get married...problem resolved.

Im under 50 got tired of running the tourist visa gauntlet so got married,  now going through bkk I get saluted no more stress ????

[jacko45k]

34 minutes ago, Chivas said:

Indeed as soon as mine is replaced the old one is shreaded the same day as per standard procedure

I have always kept mine, not sure why but looking at the old pics of me gives me a laugh. Not sure why you need to shred them, isn't the corner cut off or something? 

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, Chivas said:

Indeed as soon as mine is replaced the old one is shreaded the same day as per standard procedure

You mean you shred it? Why.

[Max69xl]

3 hours ago, SteveK said:

I was asked for my old passport when doing marriage extension in Ubon. I am sure they thought I wouldn't have it, but this being Thailand I brought everything. When she saw I had it she didn't look impressed!

I said no need to show old passport as a "tourist" when you get a new one. I never mentioned expats or extensions of any kind. 

[Max69xl]

30 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I have always kept mine, not sure why but looking at the old pics of me gives me a laugh. Not sure why you need to shred them, isn't the corner cut off or something? 

Some embassies punch a hole or two in the old passport. 

[DrJack54]

32 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I have always kept mine, not sure why but looking at the old pics of me gives me a laugh. Not sure why you need to shred them, isn't the corner cut off or something? 

Think the bottom section of identity page is often cut off. The bit which is swiped on io computer. Rendering it useless apart from showing stamps, reentry permits etc.

I'm happy to look at my old pp pic. Not so if it was full body shot. Can't believe I was half ripped 7 years ago. Now just another out of shape farang.

Edited December 30, 2019 by DrJack54

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

They can ask for whatever additional documents they want. So if an embassy want to make a rule about old passports, they can.

 

From the MFA website:

 

2. TOURIST VISA 

	1. REQUIREMENT
	This type of visa is issued to applicants who wish to enter the Kingdom for tourism purposes .
	2. DOCUMENTS REQUIRED
	- Passport or travel document with validity not less than 6 months   - Visa application form completely filled out   - Recent( 4 x 6 cm.) photograph of the applicant   - Evidence of travel from Thailand (air ticket paid in full)   - Evidence of adequate finance (20,000 Baht per person and 40,000 Baht per family)   - Consular officers reserve the rights to request additional documents as deemed necessary

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15398-Issuance-of-Visa.html

 

The Thai authorities, in one way or another, have countered every move serial tourists have made to counter the clampdown. I’m not surprised if this is happening.

Show me one embassy/consulate  in anyone's home country in the world that asks for an old passport when applying for a visa with a new passport. In many countries the validity is only 5 years, and then you have to get a new one. Don't confuse a tourist with a new passport with an expat living in Thailand who needs to transfer stamps when getting a new passport and might have re-entry stamps in the old one. That's a totally different thing.

[elviajero]

23 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Show me one embassy/consulate  in anyone's home country in the world that asks for an old passport when applying for a visa with a new passport. In many countries the validity is only 5 years, and then you have to get a new one. Don't confuse a tourist with a new passport with an expat living in Thailand who needs to transfer stamps when getting a new passport and might have re-entry stamps in the old one. That's a totally different thing.

I'm not confusing anything. I'm showing another member that Consular staff can ask for whatever documents they want to see. And that could include an old passport.

 

However, the issue is not with people applying for visas in their own country; it's with serial tourists trawling SEA for repeat visas to extend their stay. Ditching an old passport has been a way of getting passed the visual check made by consular staff. It appears they've caught on to the fact!

 

 

 

[kartoshka]

7 minutes ago, elviajero said:

I'm not confusing anything. I'm showing another member that Consular staff can ask for whatever documents they want to see. And that could include an old passport.

And I may ask a took-took driver that he stands on his head and dances before driving me somewhere.

 

"My old passport was lost/washed in a washing machine/stolen/100 other reasons"

 

"I don't wish to"

 

[Autonuaq]

They have tourist visa for real tourist,

They have other visas for the rest. And when people like you do like the rest theb one has no problems at all.

 

 

[varun]

16 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

This is the first time I hear about the necessity of showing one's old passport when applying for a visa at a Thai embassy or consulate with a new passport. When and where did this happen to you?

I have heard that they do this at Thai consulates in some countries - India for one, and apparently Vietnam and Laos as well.

The purpose of this is to check your travel/visa history to Thailand. 

 

You could counter by saying the reason you have a new passport is because you lost the old one - probably won't fly though.

[kurtmartens]

9 minutes ago, Autonuaq said:

They have tourist visa for real tourist,

They have other visas for the rest. And when people like you do like the rest theb one has no problems at all.

 

 

People like who?

[elviajero]

46 minutes ago, kartoshka said:

And I may ask a took-took driver that he stands on his head and dances before driving me somewhere.

 

"My old passport was lost/washed in a washing machine/stolen/100 other reasons"

 

"I don't wish to"

Whatever this nonsense is it doesn't change the fact that they can ask to see the old passport and if you can't produce it they can deny a visa. 

 

All I am doing is correcting someone that claimed no rule exists. It exists if the consular staff create it.

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

I'm not confusing anything. I'm showing another member that Consular staff can ask for whatever documents they want to see. And that could include an old passport.

 

However, the issue is not with people applying for visas in their own country; it's with serial tourists trawling SEA for repeat visas to extend their stay. Ditching an old passport has been a way of getting passed the visual check made by consular staff. It appears they've caught on to the fact!

 

 

 

I think you worry and think to much. 

[DrJack54]

Khun Ed, I can't be bothered going back over all the various posts. Took time to read most. 

Here is my take. With current void stamp your will not obtain tourist visa just about anywhere. If you obtain new passport then possible. You will NOT be required to provide old pp.

You have good chance fly X Saigon to CNX even with void. Someone did that not long ago. Zero chance DM.

Problem is I think AirAsia don't fly Saigon to CNX direct anymore. Check it out.

Your will have border entry available in few hours. 2020. 

You could fly KL. 

Good luck.

[Roy Baht]

On 12/30/2019 at 11:15 AM, kurtmartens said:

This is going to be stupid question / remark on my part I am sure, but ... why isn't he a tourist?  He isn't working here, he isn't living here full-time, he is coming and going as he travels around the region, etc.  Is there an official definition of "tourist" that the Thai Govt uses?  I am not being snarky, I am truly curious as to the definition.

IOs have literally said to people "If you are staying with your girlfriend, you are not a tourist". Now that doesn't make it a law, but as it is within their discretionary power to make that judgement, the effect is the same: entry denied.

[BritTim]

4 hours ago, Roy Baht said:

IOs have literally said to people "If you are staying with your girlfriend, you are not a tourist". Now that doesn't make it a law, but as it is within their discretionary power to make that judgement, the effect is the same: entry denied.

It is, indeed, true that some officials will try to find a reason why they think you are misusing tourist visas. However, many officials see a steady girlfriend as a legitimate reason for frequent visits. "Tourist" visas are really more like visit visas. If there is no more suitable visa (and there is not these days for visiting friends in Thailand) those officials will tend to be lenient as long as they do not suspect illegal working.

 

[Many years ago, one of the ways you could get a Non O visa was by stating that you wished to visit family or friends in Thailand. You could even get a one-year, multiple entry. This was generally referred to as a "social visa". It was, of course, abused and, although technically still available, is extremely rarely issued today. As a result, the tourist (visit) visa is the most appropriate for someone in a relationship with a Thai.]

[DrJack54]

3 hours ago, BritTim said:

It is, indeed, true that some officials will try to find a reason why they think you are misusing tourist visas. However, many officials see a steady girlfriend as a legitimate reason for frequent visits. "Tourist" visas are really more like visit visas. If there is no more suitable visa (and there is not these days for visiting friends in Thailand) those officials will tend to be lenient as long as they do not suspect illegal working.

 

[Many years ago, one of the ways you could get a Non O visa was by stating that you wished to visit family or friends in Thailand. You could even get a one-year, multiple entry. This was generally referred to as a "social visa". It was, of course, abused and, although technically still available, is extremely rarely issued today. As a result, the tourist (visit) visa is the most appropriate for someone in a relationship with a Thai.]

You mention "extremely rarely issued today" in reference to visa to visit family and friends. 

That visa was removed completely from Australian Embassy/consulates MANY years ago. Is it available in any other countries? Sometimes things remain on website but not available.

Edited January 1, 2020 by DrJack54

[elviajero]

8 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

You mention "extremely rarely issued today" in reference to visa to visit family and friends. 

That visa was removed completely from Australian Embassy/consulates MANY years ago. Is it available in any other countries? Sometimes things remain on website but not available.

I haven't seen them advertised or heard of anyone getting an O visa to visit 'friends' for well over 10 years. The last one I had was around 2007ish

 

To say they are "rarely issued today", is completely unfounded.

[yogavnture]

did they void it because of his behavior or because of his past entry abuse to the kingdom.  

[DrJack54]

17 minutes ago, yogavnture said:

did they void it because of his behavior or because of his past entry abuse to the kingdom.  

I had a laugh at that. No way about behaviour. There is minimal interaction with clerk when applying for visa. They might point out "something missing" from application. Which is 100% helpful.

Also I would not refer to it as abuse. Most likely too many setv in recent times.

[Muppet2019]

I was asked for my old passport last month in Hanoi, this was when I went to pick up my passport the day after applying for a Tv. I said it was at home and after some discussion about my finances I received the TV, a East European (think Russian) guy was asked as well and he said his country kept the old ones but he had a photo of it in his phone which he had to show. I had 2 TV's + 1 extension last year and this was my second TV this year and 1 visa exempt at the airport.

[scottiddled]

On 12/29/2019 at 8:01 PM, FritsSikkink said:

You are not a tourist, so need to look for another visa.

On 12/30/2019 at 11:51 AM, scottiddled said:

You're entitled to your opinion, but you're not entitled to define words. I see nothing in the OP's post that suggest a permanent abode or even employment in Thailand. You may object to people taking extended periods of time to see the world, but the "No True Scotsman" fallacy of redefining tourist to meet your policy orientation isn't helpful.

On 12/30/2019 at 12:02 PM, SteveK said:

It doesn't matter what you think the definition of a tourist is. Thai immigration have their own opinion, and if you want to be allowed in, that's the one that counts.

Steve,

 

You raise a valid point as to the (unfortunate) discretion of Thai immigration personnel. I don't disagree with your takeaway. But the rest of your post is a classic case of missing the context. The OP provided a scenario with some specifics (albeit some room for interpretation). I replied to one snarky (and unhelpful) poster who pulled the classic salty TV expat move of giving the poster grief because they don't meet some arbitrary, non-literal definition of tourist.

 

My thoughts on the definition of the word tourist matter as much as the next person's on this forum, perhaps a little bit more because I'm better with words than most of this crowd. In terms of real-world impact, Thai immigration officials can decide who gets to come in and who doesn't.

 

The reason the salty TV expat crowd's shade over the meaning of tourist isn't helpful is because it casts primary blame in the wrong direction. The Thai government needs to overhaul its visa (and exemption) system and provide clarity, consistency, and fairness instead of the arbitrariness and uncertainty that pervade the status quo. Uncertainty isn't good for tourism. It isn't good for the Thai economy. And it has a lot to do with farangs' negative perceptions of the Thai government. 

 

Even though I find a lot of the regulars here to be suspect characters, I have a feeling that if you sat a dozen of them down for a few hours they could draft a reasonable framework for Thai immigration policy with regard to tourism. And even if people would disagree as to where the lines would be drawn, they'd know where the lines are and what role discretion plays. I'd bet everything that the framework drawn up by that randomly chosen group of forum regulars would be a more sensible policy, too.

 

Instead, the salty TV expat crowd blames the farang first. "You've been here too many times." "You stay too long." "You're clearly living here." "You're not a tourist." "Quit gaming the system." Any sensible person can see that the system is nonsensical and inconsistent. 

 

Elviajero used the term serial tourist in this thread, and I think it's an improvement--albeit one with flaws of its own, particularly in terms of connotative meaning. I don't lose a lot of sleep over the struggles of serial tourists, but I do feel for them. They just want to see the world and contribute to the Thai economy. Whether they should be allowed to do so to the extent that they do is open to legitimate debate. But when I see the salty TV expat crowd here chiming in on every thread where an edge case tourist is worried and/or suffers setbacks, I see condemnation of the tourist and not the system. I guess I'm a sucker for expecting better of people.