unpaid credit cards

[meand]

3 hours ago, digibum said:

 

I think some of the confusion here is conflating the laws of two different countries. 

 

In the US, they can garnish your wages and take whatever actions necessary to collect.  If the bank takes you to court and they win, they can collect what is owed to them using whatever methods that are legal to do so. 

 

It doesn't matter if it's unsecured.  Unsecured just means that there's nothing to repossess. 

 

You can freeze their bank accounts, you can put lien on any real property they own, etc. 

 

It might be different in AU, but in other places, you can't run from your debts.

 

 

The reason they sell off bad debt is because bad debt limits their loan reserves.  They want to get that money out there earning them money again so they'll take .30 on the dollar today and leave it to a collection agency to deal with. 

 

You have to understand that scale a bank is working at.  They might sell tens or hundreds of millions in bad debt in one transaction.  Trying to collect on that would mean creating a large internal entity to handle it and they would still want to get the bad debt off of the books. 

 

I know, because I buy bad mortgage debt from banks (well, I buy from hedge funds that buy multi-million dollar pools and they bid out the stuff that isn't a slam dunk).  I've talked to a lot of "special assets" (i.e. defaulted loans) officers at banks and it's not about the fact that they can't collect, it's that they make more money lending that money back out than they do suing, foreclosing, renovating, and reselling properties. 

 

And the agencies don't just give up.  If all you had to do was avoid the collection agencies for X years and you got to keep everything without paying, everybody would just cancel their phone service and run up their cards to the max. 

 

Like I said, in the US, 1000000% they can go after your wages.  It's a debt, like any other debt.  You owe money.  The courts will give you the ability to collect. 

 

Collection agencies often do give up if it's obvious that the debtor is such a loser that they can't collect.  The person has no money to take, no wages to garnish, nothing.  Especially if it's a relatively small amount. 

 

But if you have any sort of tangible assets, they will not quit. 

 

 

Again, *maybe* true in AU (nothing you've said is proof other than you might actually be such a small fish to them that they gave up rather than try to take more expensive collection efforts), but not at all true in other countries. 

There are actually books written on this subject. I tried to find the one i paged through years ago but could not. 

 

I agree with much of what you say. From the experiences I have heard and read about, cc companies writing off the debt to a collection agency is very common, ad you say. However, after that is where we differ. 

 

You gotta understand, the collection agency just paid say 20 cents for every dollar of debt. Guess what, if you know this as the debtor, you know giving the entire amount of what you owe is an absolute joke (or a grand slam for them if you do it). Never should happen. I just do not agree with hardly anything you said. Collection agencies have very little leverage, that is why they do utterly unscrupulous things like show up at homes and harass family members, all of which is most probably illegal. The collection agencies have hardly any leverage and you can offer them peanuts relative to your initial debt, and they are likely to take it and consider it paid in full sooner or later. 

 

You also stated that if collection agencies were avoided for X years, the debtor still will not get away. That is completely untrue as governed by each state's statue of limitations on debts. For someone who worked in the industry you are way off on a lot of this stuff. 

Edited January 1, 2020 by meand

[Turbo Slayer]

33 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

Weird logic you have. So immigration just happily passes known criminals?

 

Immigration doesn't act on its own and stop people at will (though many will argue this), but based on flags in their system which are placed there by other branches of police. I know that works as I've had someone stopped and thrown in IDC before. All it took was a police report and copy of his passport.

 

The particular bank in question will get report made that will flag foreigner at the immigration. It would be extremely foolish of him to visit Thailand before this has been settled. But if he does anyway, I hope OP keeps us posted on his days in the Land of Smiles.

The debt is a civil issue not a criminal matter so wouldn't be flagged up at immigration.

 

[Tony125]

24 minutes ago, Turbo Slayer said:

The debt is a civil issue not a criminal matter so wouldn't be flagged up at immigration.

 

Wrong , was a case on TV a few years ago of father and son from AUS who on last night in Thailand did not pay for large meal at their hotel when they left. 2 years later they came back to Thailand and were arrested at the airport. Reason , police report of theft was filed by hotel restaurant by reason of not paying for services. They ended up staying in jail until court date set and restitution made. Took about 6 weeks.

[Olmate]

32 minutes ago, Tony125 said:

Wrong , was a case on TV a few years ago of father and son from AUS who on last night in Thailand did not pay for large meal at their hotel when they left. 2 years later they came back to Thailand and were arrested at the airport. Reason , police report of theft was filed by hotel restaurant by reason of not paying for services. They ended up staying in jail until court date set and restitution made. Took about 6 weeks.

Not the same ,they did a runner =theft= criminal. unpaid c.c = civil matter.

[BestB]

2 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

He would not get blacklisted outside Thailand. However when bank is an international banking group that either has entity in defaulter's country of residence, or owns a share of a financial institution that does, he could get someone knocking on his door there.

 

It's one thing robbing a local bank. It's another thing robbing a global one. Those do exchange information among their international offices. Had he done this to a purely Thai bank, it's unlikely they could do anything to him once he's outside Thailand.

 

Collection agencies are a different (unpredictable) story though. I remember a friend who's niece failed to pay phone bill to one of telecoms here and ignored it for 3 or 4 years. Her address was registered at friend's place, and when returning home one day, house was found broken into and most of the stuff taken. Went to report to police and was told "Yes, we did it". It was over a 3000 baht debt that grew to over 100,000 by then. Advice was to go to auction to buy the stuff back. And yes, no one was going to pay to repair damage to the house sustained during the break-in. Would they do something like that outside Thailand? I've no idea.

As I already posted 3 times , it does not work that way, I defaulted with Citi bank AU and had no problems getting one with Citi bank TH.

 

now again you bringing up what happens in US. This is not US this is Thailand 

[BestB]

43 minutes ago, Tony125 said:

Wrong , was a case on TV a few years ago of father and son from AUS who on last night in Thailand did not pay for large meal at their hotel when they left. 2 years later they came back to Thailand and were arrested at the airport. Reason , police report of theft was filed by hotel restaurant by reason of not paying for services. They ended up staying in jail until court date set and restitution made. Took about 6 weeks.

Totally different matters, doing a runner on a bill is a crime , defaulting on a credit card is not.

 

in your example father knew and planned it ie planned to do a crime . People default because not have money to pay , unless they get card with intention to max it out and never pay , but to prove that is very hard .

[BestB]

1 hour ago, Suradit69 said:

You might want to consider editing your comment. 

 

"debt is country or orien only," among other incoherent things you wrote , make it difficult to believe ou have a clue.

 

 

 

 

Actually what he wrote is 100% correct. And that’s not what you may of heard but from Having experience 

[tomazbodner]

Let's settle this once and for all. OP, please ask your friend to come over to Thailand. Then let us know what happened.

[Chongalulu]

3 hours ago, stropper said:

absolute <deleted>. you do not know what your talking about, debt is country or orien only, stop trying to scare people , the debt is only good for where it originated, and after a while they give up !

 

Had a Leo or two too many old boy? You’ve maybe directed your comment at the wrong poster? I haven’t claimed what your accusing me of.

[Caine]

Another a friend of mine story, hope YOU do get your collar felt when you try to return with today's computerised system almost 100% likely. Bad luck.

[Golden Triangle]

2 hours ago, BestB said:

Totally different matters, doing a runner on a bill is a crime , defaulting on a credit card is not.

 

in your example father knew and planned it ie planned to do a crime . People default because not have money to pay , unless they get card with intention to max it out and never pay , but to prove that is very hard .

But when all's said and done just look at the sort of carp the police here deal with, I'm not saying you are wrong but we have all seen, via these pages, the sort of things the Thai police deal with, so anything is possible.

[Golden Triangle]

11 minutes ago, Caine said:

Another a friend of mine story, hope YOU do get your collar felt when you try to return with today's computerised system almost 100% likely. Bad luck.

Bar steward, you nicked my observation ???? 

[Autonuaq]

All depents on the bank if they also have send the registered letters to the address where he was abraod.

 

When he made clear the address to the bank his adrres abraod then they have to collect the debt under thai law in the coutnry abroad. If they not do this and the address was provided to the bank then the bank orit collector has no case after 2 years by law.

 

Thai very well know that they can get a court order and that they even can have a thai court order that is translated and legalized to send this abroad to collect it abroad.

 

They have for a contract 2 years if I an right.

When one has providedthe correct address abraod as well email then the bank just can collect and is in default when it did not do even under the thai law

[digibum]

On 1/1/2020 at 1:22 PM, lensta said:

"Actually, one of the questions you MAY be asked when requesting a tourist visa to the United States is whether or not you have a credit card.  The intent of the question is to make sure you have the means to travel. "

 

But he is not trying to go to the United States, is he?

 

 

Yes, but I was responding to someone saying that nowhere in the world do they ask.  US is in the world. 

[digibum]

On 1/1/2020 at 4:02 PM, meand said:

You gotta understand, the collection agency just paid say 20 cents for every dollar of debt. Guess what, if you know this as the debtor, you know giving the entire amount of what you owe is an absolute joke (or a grand slam for them if you do it). Never should happen. I just do not agree with hardly anything you said. Collection agencies have very little leverage, that is why they do utterly unscrupulous things like show up at homes and harass family members, all of which is most probably illegal. The collection agencies have hardly any leverage and you can offer them peanuts relative to your initial debt, and they are likely to take it and consider it paid in full sooner or later.

Again, I have done defaulted mortgage deals and so I have met a lot of people that work in the world of bad debt. 

 

Collection agencies don't do many of those things previously mentioned, not because they don't have the legal right to, but because, much like the banks, the ROI isn't high enough.  A collection agent is barely over minimum wage, maybe $10 - $15 an hour plus commissions.  A lawyer to go file suit and jump through all of the legal hurdles is going to be much more than $10 - $15 an hour.  Likewise, what point would there be in going through all of the hassle of getting a settlement and garnishing your wages if you defaulted on $200?  It's easier to just pound on the debtor and become such a problem for them that they'll pay to make it stop. 

 

There is also a statute of limitations on the ability to sue to collect the debt but, in the US, I don't think there's an actual statute of limitations on how long they can attempt to collect AND continue to report your bad debt on credit reports.  In other words, they statute of limitations could expire but they collection agency can still try to collect the debt.  They just have no ability to sue you for it. 

 

There are also little tricks the collection agencies use to keep extending the statute of limitations but I'm not well enough versed in that stuff to comment on it. 

 

I want to be very clear, when I said I have dealt in defaulted mortgages, I have gone into every deal trying to help the borrower get back on their feet.  This is their home and they obviously are not doing a runner.  90% of the time they hit some bad times and just need some room.  We'll restructure the loan for lower payments, agree to forgive past penalties, etc, to get them paying.  It's only after we've exhausted all efforts that we begin foreclosure. 

 

Plus, it's to my financial advantage to go that route.  If I can buy bad debt for .50 on the dollar and restructure the loan, forgive past penalties, and get the guy paying, I can sell that debt as a performing note or just keep it and collect on it. 

 

Foreclosing is costly (about $5,000 in lawyer's fees) and lengthy (if the borrower fights it in any way it can take several years - lowering my annual ROI) and then I have to take possession of the property and sell it at auction.  My upside is capped because anything we make over and above the loan, plus the penalties, plus the lawyer's fees, etc goes back to the borrower. 

 

BTW, the one thing I've learned (the hard way) from doing defaulted mortgages is that as the asset class increases (i.e. the larger the loan amount) the more legally savvy the borrower tends to be.  It's very easy to collect on a $150,000 defaulted mortgage because they're usually just honest folks that need a little help.  It's much more difficult to collect on a $500,000 mortgage because that guy probably will get a lawyer who will keep throwing up roadblocks to collecting. 

 

My guess is OP's friend is a juicy target because even thought it's a large amount he obviously makes enough money he could pay it back (he wants to come back to Thailand for holiday so he has some money), but he won't.  That gives them a lot of incentive to keep going after him and doing everything possible to make his life as difficult as possible. 

 

[digibum]

On 1/1/2020 at 1:48 PM, BestB said:

You keep going on about America , that’s totally irrelevant.

 

we are discussing Thailand .

 

one poster claimed to have worked for visa and if you defaulted in one country you are blacklisted all

over the world , which is incorrect.

 

OP defaulted in Thailand , American laws and regulations do not apply.

 

 

Yes, but there was a sub-discussion going on about "anywhere in the world" which you missed. 

 

[samsensam]

On 12/30/2019 at 12:00 PM, Pilotman said:

"rimmed by interest and transfer charges", that is hardly the truth of it.   It was a debt he should have honoured.  I bet he was quick enough to spend money that wasn't his. Hopefully, if he is stupid enough to come back, he will be nabbed and forced to pay, or risk jail.  

 

back in the 90s i rented a room in my house, one tenant, australian, told me that he had taken out credit cards while in the uk and intended to run up as much debt as possible then return home. kind of short sighted i thought and i hope the bank and/or authorities caught up with him.

 

the OP's 'friend' is an adult who entered into a contract with the credit card company and knew exactly what they were doing. i hope the bank and/or authorities catch up with him.