7-Eleven donate millions after Thais use less plastic bags: But are paper bags for tourists worse than plastic?

[webfact]

7-Eleven donate millions after Thais use less plastic bags: But are paper bags for tourists worse than plastic?

 

Thai caption: Donation of 134 million baht for less plastic bag usage

 

7-Eleven donate millions after Thais use less plastic bags: But are paper bags for tourists worse than plastic?

 

Convenience store group CP All who run 7-Eleven have proudly announced that they have donated 134 million baht to hospitals nationwide after Thais used almost a billion less plastic bags over the last year. 

 

They have praised Thais and their "Go Green 7" campaign and said that paper bags would be used instead in all tourist areas of the country to add to their concern about the environment. 

 

But the largesse and thumping of the "environment drum" comes after the BBC posted a video that claimed:

 

"Why paper bags are worse for the planet than plastic".

 

CP All said that they had donated the money to Sirirat Hospital, local hospitals and hospitals throughout Thailand's 77 provinces after seeing a reduction in plastic bag use of 998 million bags from December 2018. 

 

They said that cloth bags were available for a reasonable price in their stores and paper bags would be in use at areas where there is a lot of tourism. 

 

But the BBC video posted online in October disputes the idea that paper is better saying that the inventor of plastic bags intended for them to be reused again and again not just thrown away. It also contends that trees are cut down for paper bags among other negative aspects for the environment. 

 

Source: TNN Thailand

 

-- © Copyright Thai Visa News 2020-01-06

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[cyril sneer]

Not sure how hospital systems work over here, but I hope they don't each have a director

[Denim]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

It also contends that trees are cut down for paper bags among other negative aspects for the environment. 

 

Well blow me down. Fancy that. So....are they suggesting the ban on plastic bags has not been thought through ? In Thailand ?

 

Impossible. Everything here is thoroughly researched at the most superficial level. What could be wrong ?

[zydeco]

The plastic hysteria cultists are not going to like this.

[jak2002003]

Stupid argument in that video.  The trees are FARMED for the paper... which means more trees are planted for the more paper bags used.. and more trees are good for the environment...…  it will INCREASE the number of trees on the planet.  

 

Cotton is a PLANT.  As it grows it produced OXYGEN and helps get rid of carbon in the atmosphere.  Again this is a good thing.  Just don't import anything vast distances across the globe... most countries will be able to grown their own plants and trees for paper.  

 

The natural products just rot away.. are not likely to kill animals, choke up waterways and the ocean, and don't look unsightly. 

 

If they think fields of (make it organic grown) cotton, and vast forests of sustainable used trees is worse than plastic, plastic bags, and the entire oil / petrochemical industry they need their brains examined.  Did they not think how the oil is transported over the globe and the energy and pollution made as they process it and burn it as a fossil fuel?  Well... that oil weights a bit more then cotton and uses more energy to mine, transport in huge oil tanker ships and trucks, and not forgetting the oil rigs, pipelines and the rest that cut through natural landscapes, cut through forests and destroy the ocean bed.  

 

 

Edited January 6, 2020 by jak2002003

[tomazbodner]

Well when paper bags decompose, they are generating greenhouse gases like methane, which are speeding up climate change. Additionally trees in quantity that would reverse CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere would require far more water than is practically available and becomes firewood if fires strike as California and Australia repeatedly find out.

 

That's arguments from science publications where many of the "quick fixes" to environmental issues were dismissed as greenwashing.

[mrfill]

1 hour ago, jak2002003 said:

Stupid argument in that video.  The trees are FARMED for the paper... which means more trees are planted for the more paper bags used.. and more trees are good for the environment...…  it will INCREASE the number of trees on the planet.  

 

Cotton is a PLANT.  As it grows it produced OXYGEN and helps get rid of carbon in the atmosphere.  Again this is a good thing.  Just don't import anything vast distances across the globe... most countries will be able to grown their own plants and trees for paper.  

 

The natural products just rot away.. are not likely to kill animals, choke up waterways and the ocean, and don't look unsightly. 

 

If they think fields of (make it organic grown) cotton, and vast forests of sustainable used trees is worse than plastic, plastic bags, and the entire oil / petrochemical industry they need their brains examined.  Did they not think how the oil is transported over the globe and the energy and pollution made as they process it and burn it as a fossil fuel?  Well... that oil weights a bit more then cotton and uses more energy to mine, transport in huge oil tanker ships and trucks, and not forgetting the oil rigs, pipelines and the rest that cut through natural landscapes, cut through forests and destroy the ocean bed.  

 

 

Why grow cotton though? It needs far too much water, of which there is not enough. Just remember why cannabis got banned - because it makes paper very cheaply. That didn't suit Randolph Hearst so he lobbied (paid) to have it made illegal. Hemp produces good quality cloth and paper as well as useful oils and is easy and cheap to grow. Why, you can even make cheap shopping bags - far cheaper than cotton. And it grows rather quicker than a tree..

[hashmodha]

I would like to bet this is a PR stunt as 7/11 is part of one of the largest conglomerates,CP....and unless this news source verify with all those who inturn verify the donations actually been received, audited into their systems to be transparent, then like numerous other stuff making news for Thai Visa,this can be taken with a pinch of salt.....so to speak!????????

[khunPer]

Happy to see the BBC video shared. As I've posted several times, the problem is not single-use plastic bags – or plastic packing in general – the real problem is people, people that don't dispose plastic, including bags, in a proper way; which could be in a garbage bin, and some of the plastic in recycle bins.

 

More garbage bins, and plastic recycle bins, would be a lot better for environment than a ban of single-use plastic bags.

[HHTel]

1 hour ago, mrfill said:

Why grow cotton though? It needs far too much water, of which there is not enough.

The water on earth is constant.  It has the same quantity now as it had millions of years ago.  The water on earth is not added to nor is it taken away.  If we don't have enough water now, then we never will have.

 

Fresh water can be 'lost' because of water tables being lowered among other things.  In general though, nature takes care of recycling our water but sometimes in the wrong places.

[hotchilli]

4 hours ago, Denim said:

 

Well blow me down. Fancy that. So....are they suggesting the ban on plastic bags has not been thought through ? In Thailand ?

 

Impossible. Everything here is thoroughly researched at the most superficial level. What could be wrong ?

No sub-committee was involved !

[BobbyL]

I was still offered a plastic bag this morning in 7/11. The person in front also got their coffees in a plastic bag. Good to see the ban is in full flow. 

[DrTuner]

Paper bags will be fun once the rainy season starts.

[Dap]

"But are paper bags for tourists worse than plastic?" 

Not if the paper bags are made from the warehouses full of used paper forms the Immigration Police have been collecting from the expat community for the past 50 or so years 

Edited January 6, 2020 by Dap

[baansgr]

Great stuff but they are applauding Thais yet its in the tourist destinations....hmmmm

[Xavnel]

~~~~~~

Thetrees are FARMED for the paper... 

~~~~~~

"Umm.    I am not a FARM...  "

Amazon

 

[richard_smith237]

This whole façade’s is just ridiculous....

 

Solutions are simple: Just don’t offer a plastic bag when its not needed... i.e. Someone who buys a bottle of water and a packet of Cigarettes doesn’t need a plastic bag, but someone who buys 10 items does.

 

Encourage ’thought’ about plastic bags by charging 1 baht for them, that should do enough to send the message. 

 

The bigger issues with plastic is the packaging... so much stuff is unnecessarily packaged in plastic, surely the governments can start here and implement legislation which insists upon ‘paper based’ packaging or at least packaging with minimal plastic.

 

Another key issue is recycling - plastics are extremely useful and there is enough already in the world. With better efforts to prevent plastics going into the rivers and oceans and better direction of these plastics to recycling stations and plants much of the issue with plastics disappears. 

 

I’m not sure the Bio-degradable plastic bags are a solution, I suspect they are more of a problem as the plastics break down into smaller plastics, eventually microscopic. I suspect the plastic still enters the food chain and eventually us.

[DannyCarlton]

13 minutes ago, Xavnel said:

~~~~~~

Thetrees are FARMED for the paper... 

~~~~~~

"Umm.    I am not a FARM...  "

Amazon

 

Wood from the Amazonian rainforests doesn't get used for making paper, plus the Amazonian rainforest is dissappearing to make way for farming not primarily to harvest wood. Try Norway.

[Pib]

Of course durn near everything on store shelves is in a plastic container or wrap of some type.  Sure glad we are now putting all of that plastic in cloth or paper bags. 

[Tropposurfer]

Plastic bags better than paper bags ... RIGHT ????????????????? What load of complete twaddle !!!!!!!!!!!!! Paper bags worse for the environment that plastic bags ????????????? BS BS BS BS BS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Plantation trees to produce the paper to make bags along with shedloads of recycled materials to make the less finer type paper bags such as large shopping bags.

The capacity for human beings to lie, and delude themselves is stellar in proportion. I don't like plastic bags, don't want to see them anywhere other than the biodegradable kind (which by the way still release crappy substances as they break down in our environment).

Go buy one of those cool and so effective multiple food travel container (I bought oje in Big C and it rocks) Thai's are amazed and so happy to see it ands me say I love this place and want to take care of it and them as part of this place.

Take it with you when you go buy street food.

Buy a few for your best Thai friends or neighbours to help change the thinking and actions. Buy a couple of cool reusable drink containers and give them to your poorer Thai neighbours and share that too.

Sadly what I have just written will change nada, absolutely nada about we humans and our selfish myopic way in which we view the world (no matter what race). Doomed to sit eventually in a sea or rotting garbage and to live in metal and plastic boxes in a barren wasteland, unable to go outside because of our refusal to change and live in harmony with anything (take a look at the world's largest cities right now to see this already becoming a reality).

Yeah yeah yeah what doomsayer I am bla bla bla. So sorry, to share, we can now put your heads back in the sand. 

 

 

[Mac98]

Calling plastic bags "single use" is the PR scam of the Green crowd. The bags are used in the home for garbage, storing, packing, and even shopping at places like Makro where no bags are on offer. Nobody has mentioned that plastic bags can be tied to various parts of a motorbike, Trying to haul a week's groceries home on a motorbike on a rainy day will be a nightmare. The answer is to buy boxes of 50 plastic bags. Easily folded. you can always carry two in your cargo shorts for those impulse shopping days. Plastic bags stay in use but are supplied by the customer, not the retailer.

[noticojaru]

street food vendors still will sell you food wrapped in plastic, in plastic, in plastic, with plastic plates and spoons

amazon coffee will sell you coffee "to take away" in a plastic bag with straws

and so on.

 

thais don't care about nature and they'll drown in their own sh-i-t.

 

and that's good -- this will teach them.

Edited January 6, 2020 by noticojaru

[Stargeezr]

I wonder how many products are made from oil besides the plastic bags? Hmmm I think the list would slow down my computer. I have even heard that the batteries used in the electric

cars are not very good to try and recycle, I guess that goes even for the traditional batteries already used in cars and trucks.  I wonder how many green people have thought about how green their new electric cars really are. I would buy a hybrid car or pickup a lot quicker as I do not want to have to charge the battery every 100 to 200 kms.  every time I go cross country for a drive. Besides where I live the city of Edmonton in Alberta is 300  kms away, and Vancouver is about 1000 kms away. Guess I will keep my gas burning van a few

more years. I also use my plastic bags 2 or 3 times before disposing them into the proper garbage bin. How much energy goes into making the paper bag? Well I have heard quite a bit actually. Tree has to be cut, then hauled to a mill, turned into a piece of wood and chips

and some are then processed into paper. Lots of labor and what is running the mill? What kind of supplied electricity and such to run the equipment at the mill? Lots of questions...

Geezer

[brokenbone]

15 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Stupid argument in that video.  The trees are FARMED for the paper

 

Cotton is a PLANT.  As it grows it produced OXYGEN

 

 

we are also much better equipped to produce

trees & cotton today then back in 70

[RJRS1301]

13 hours ago, mrfill said:

Why grow cotton though? It needs far too much water, of which there is not enough. Just remember why cannabis got banned - because it makes paper very cheaply. That didn't suit Randolph Hearst so he lobbied (paid) to have it made illegal. Hemp produces good quality cloth and paper as well as useful oils and is easy and cheap to grow. Why, you can even make cheap shopping bags - far cheaper than cotton. And it grows rather quicker than a tree..

Hemp, uses less water thancotton to produce into fabric and paper as does bamboo, which is easil farmed and has multiple uses, food containers, disposable cutlery, clothing, bags, building materials, 

Hemp was used in maritime for years for rope on vessels

 

I have two hemp shirts and a jumper (pullover) purchased twenty years ago or more fabric in all perfect, got softer like linen with use and washing, no holes, some colour fading only 

[HHTel]

11 hours ago, Mac98 said:

Calling plastic bags "single use" is the PR scam of the Green crowd. The bags are used in the home for garbage, storing, packing, and even shopping at places like Makro where no bags are on offer. Nobody has mentioned that plastic bags can be tied to various parts of a motorbike, Trying to haul a week's groceries home on a motorbike on a rainy day will be a nightmare. The answer is to buy boxes of 50 plastic bags. Easily folded. you can always carry two in your cargo shorts for those impulse shopping days. Plastic bags stay in use but are supplied by the customer, not the retailer.

The name 'single use bags' is a convenient name.  It is used for plastic less than 36 microns thick.  It doesn't matter how many times it's used, it's still remains the same thickness.

 

14 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

With better efforts to prevent plastics going into the rivers and oceans and better direction of these plastics to recycling stations and plants

The problem with thin plastic is that they need special recycling equipment.  Thailand has none and these 'single use' bags can clog the machinery and often cause temporary disruption of the recycling plant.

 

14 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I’m not sure the Bio-degradable plastic bags are a solution, I suspect they are more of a problem as the plastics break down into smaller plastics, eventually microscopic. I suspect the plastic still enters the food chain and eventually us.

Oxo degradable plastic does just what you say.  That has now been banned in Thailand. However, true biodegradable plastic is made from natural substances and degrades with the use of bacteria.  The word 'biodegradable' is overused and doesn't necessarily mean BIOdegradable.

There is also 'compostable' bags which are different.

 

[RJRS1301]

The microplastic particles from the "biodegradeable bags" disperse into the air often, and are then breathed in by humans remaining in our lungs according to some researchers.

Also those in the fish are then consumed by humans so we are becoming receptcles of plastic as well as the marine and bird life

 

[jak2002003]

On 1/6/2020 at 5:54 PM, HHTel said:

The water on earth is constant.  It has the same quantity now as it had millions of years ago.  The water on earth is not added to nor is it taken away.  If we don't have enough water now, then we never will have.

 

Fresh water can be 'lost' because of water tables being lowered among other things.  In general though, nature takes care of recycling our water but sometimes in the wrong places.

You are correct.  The 'shortage of water' they talk about is for clean unpolluted water.  We could have huge areas of fresh water for use, but they would be not safe for human consumption due to humans polluting them with chemicals, sewerage, and plastic.

23 hours ago, DrTuner said:

Paper bags will be fun once the rainy season starts.

?  They generally put a waterproof wax coating on the paper bags. 

 

20 hours ago, noticojaru said:

street food vendors still will sell you food wrapped in plastic, in plastic, in plastic, with plastic plates and spoons

amazon coffee will sell you coffee "to take away" in a plastic bag with straws

and so on.

 

thais don't care about nature and they'll drown in their own sh-i-t.

 

and that's good -- this will teach them.

 

You just got a downer on the Thai's have you?  Most of the planet is 'not caring about nature'.  Even in the west we simply ship out the toxic chemicals, plastic waste and stuff that can't be recycled to poor countries to deal with.