USA earned Social Security benefits for Non-resident Alien (Thai wife)?

[The Man Who Sold the World]

Thai wife and I retired to Thailand five years ago. My wife as a green card holder worked in the USA twenty plus years paying her social security taxes. Her latest statements provide that she has earned enough credits and will receive about $800/mo at full retirement age. 

 

However, She is now officially a non-resident alien. She is a USA Taxpayer and we do file our US income taxes as “married filing jointly”. She has on file the declaration that she is a non-resident alien who desires to be treated as a resident alien for tax purposes.

 

In a couple of years she will hit the magic 62 years old and will be eligible to claim social security benefits based on her work history in the USA. 

 

She is a resident of Thailand, a citizen of Thailand and a former green card holder non-resident alien of the USA.

 

Will she be able to claim her USA social security benefits?

 

Are there any Americans on here whose wife’s were/are former green card holders who worked in the USA and qualified for social security then repatriated back to Thailand and are receiving social security benefits?

 

Will a USA former green card holder, non-resident alien who qualified for her own social security benefits, then repatriated back to her home country of Thailand, receive her earned social security benefits?

 

 

Thanks to all in advance for your answers/experiences. 

 

Everything about this question is above board and legitimate. My wife is a Thailand resident as is myself Non O visa with annual retiree extensions. My wife earned her social security benefits in the USA but is now a Thailand resident and a US non-resident alien.

[Pib]

Yes she can as she was a legal US resident for at least 5 years.  

[cmarshall]

She qualifies if her documentation satisfies the SSA.  Why did she not become a US citizen?  I made sure my wife did just so that she would have the strongest possible claim to SS benefits on my earnings record.

[Boon Mee]

Yes, the best method to insure a Thai wife's eligibility to collect her US social security is to have her take out nationalization papers and get the US passport. 

The test isn't difficult. 

[sirineou]

She should be able to receive SS benefits.

"Relinquishing your green card does not change your eligibility for U.S. Social Security retirement benefits. Once you have given up your green card, you will be treated as a non-U.S. citizen or “alien” and classified as a resident or non-resident alien (NRA). "

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/can-you-still-claim-social-security-after-renoucing-your-us-green-card-2015-07-29

Edited January 7, 2020 by sirineou

[Tracyb]

Should we presume that you are legally married in the USA?  

[The Man Who Sold the World]

1 hour ago, Tracyb said:

Should we presume that you are legally married in the USA?

No, we were legally married in Bangkok in '97. Emigrated to the US. She, for her own reasons refused to seek naturalization. We also did not change her last name - things were different then and the possibility of her Not being legally able to purchase Thai land raised its ugly head. That was then, this is now. Past is Past. But, we did go through the formal USA spousal immigration petition - took about six months for approval and issue of I-551.

 

She legally resided and worked in the USA for twenty plus years so easily passes the "five year residency" criteria.

 

She did voluntarily surrender her I-551 and her LPR status. That is the correct and legal thing to do. We visit the USA for vacations, we reside in Thailand.

 

The question I have is when she files her application for her social security retirement benefits via the internet through the Manila Social Security Office, as a USA Non-resident Alien will she be approved or denied? 

 

Secondary is that her spousal benefit will exceed her own record. According to the info I have researched this is automatically accounted for by the Social Security office. 

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by The Man Who Sold the World

[khunjeff]

You should really contact SSA in Manila for an authoritative answer. The information on the SSA website seems to indicate that Thai citizens can continue to receive earned SS payments while living in Thailand, but it's not clear to me whether a non-citizen can make the initial application for benefits if s/he is outside the US.

 

From the attached handout:

 

"If you are a citizen of one of the 
countries listed in the chart below [Note: Thailand is listed], we will continue to pay your benefits outside the United States if:
a) You are receiving benefits based 
on your own earnings, and you 
earned at least 40 credits under 
the U.S. Social Security system or
lived at least 10 years in the United 
States..."

Your Payments __While You Are __Outside the __United States EN-05-10137.pdf

[Tracyb]

2 hours ago, The Man Who Sold the World said:

No, we were legally married in Bangkok in '97.

Does the SSA consider that she is your spouse if you don't have a marriage certificate from the USA?  Just curious if she will qualify for "Spousal" benefits after you passed on.

[Pib]

31 minutes ago, Tracyb said:

Does the SSA consider that she is your spouse if you don't have a marriage certificate from the USA?  Just curious if she will qualify for "Spousal" benefits after you passed on.

Yes.  A foreign marriage certificate is fine although you should also have it translated to English and notarized.  And the person you are married to may  asked to complete a SSA-3 Marriage Certification form....simple...easy.   

 

SSA-3 Marriage Certification.pdf   

 

When you say "spousal" benefit that can refer to where the person, like a wife, applies for social security based another person's earning record such as the husband's.  When applying for SS pension the SSA automatically calculates which way earns the person the highest monthly benefit....based on the person's own earning record assuming they accumulated at least 40 credits (i.e., worked for 10 years) or the spouse's earning record.   

 

For a spousal pension the person may not have even worked one day in their life....or did work more than one day but far short of 40 credits worth/10 years.  The spousal pension will be based on the earning record's of the spouse...typically/usually the husband. 

 

Heck, even a divorced person who is still single and don't quality for SS pension on their own earning record can apply for a spousal pension "if they were married" to the wage earner they divorced for at least 10 years...and of course the wage earner worked at least for 10 years/40 credits.  But if/once remarrying the benefit is usually terminated or has to be switched to the new spouse if that spouse qualifies for SS also.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[flexomike]

She definitely can collect on her earnings,  but I think that because she is not a US citizen and living outside of the US she can not claim benefits on your earnings, best to  check with SS in Manilla

[thornton39]

I emigrated to the USA from the UK with my UK wife and 2yr old daughter on Green cards in 1966 and I worked there for just 3.5 years before returning to the UK, permanently and our Green cards expired.  My wife did not work.  At 65 years old I was able to claim a much reduced USA pension (and still do).  My now ex wife also gets a small pension, but significantly smaller than mine.  On that basis, YES, your wife can certainly claim for a pension.  N.B.  A year or so ago, the USA pension service formally informed the UK tax office of my pension entitlement and they will almost certainly inform the Thai tax authorities when your wife ultimately receives her pension.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, flexomike said:

She definitely can collect on her earnings,  but I think that because she is not a US citizen and living outside of the US she can not claim benefits on your earnings, best to  check with SS in Manilla

https://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/blog/social-security-will-non-us-spouse-lose-benefits/

https://www.fool.com/retirement/general/2015/03/08/social-security-5-surprising-facts-about-noncitize.aspx

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0302610025

[HuskerDo]

11 hours ago, The Man Who Sold the World said:

No, we were legally married in Bangkok in '97. Emigrated to the US. She, for her own reasons refused to seek naturalization. We also did not change her last name - things were different then and the possibility of her Not being legally able to purchase Thai land raised its ugly head. That was then, this is now. Past is Past. But, we did go through the formal USA spousal immigration petition - took about six months for approval and issue of I-551.

 

She legally resided and worked in the USA for twenty plus years so easily passes the "five year residency" criteria.

 

She did voluntarily surrender her I-551 and her LPR status. That is the correct and legal thing to do. We visit the USA for vacations, we reside in Thailand.

 

The question I have is when she files her application for her social security retirement benefits via the internet through the Manila Social Security Office, as a USA Non-resident Alien will she be approved or denied? 

 

Secondary is that her spousal benefit will exceed her own record. According to the info I have researched this is automatically accounted for by the Social Security office. 

 

"and the possibility of her Not being legally able to purchase Thai land".....

 

She was going to purchase Thailand? Step aside Jeff Bezos. I think we just found the REAL richest people in the world. ???? 

Edited January 8, 2020 by HuskerDo

[gk10002000]

May need a Tax ID number if she has to file US tax form?  Not sure her original social security number would work?

[Pib]

5 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

May need a Tax ID number if she has to file US tax form?  Not sure her original social security number would work?

Social security numbers are for life once issued regardless of citizenship status.  Now ITINs are different but I'm sure she has a SSN.

[nitehawk42]

Contact SS office in Manila. They handle Thailand SS.

One thing they require is that alien spouse live in USA for 5 years.

Just send your situation to them, you will receive a complete definition of what you need to get her SS and if she will receive benefits when you die.

 

[nitehawk42]

There is a law that became effective on January 1, 1985, prohibiting monthly social security payments to certain aliens and dependents/survivors who are not U.S. citizens and have not resided in the United States for a period of at least five years. This period of residency must be at the same time the relationship to the Number Holder/ Worker existed.

 

What Information You Provided (for your wife to know)

 

The information we have do not indicate that she is a citizen of the United States nor have lived in the U.S. for at least five years during which time your relationship to you, the worker, existed.

 

However, she can receive benefits if she stays inside the U.S. for at least one (1) full calendar month (1^st day of the month up to the last day of the same month). Once this happens, she can receive monthly benefits while she is in the U.S. and will still receive benefits for 6 more months after she leaves the United States.

 

For your perusal, the hyperlink is found in our public website:

 

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0302610001

 

Should you need further explanation Sir, you may call our inquiry line: +632-53012000 ext. 9 on Tuesdays and Thursdays from 8am-11am, Manila time. Thank you.

 

Best,

 

Sarah Cayetuna

Claims Examiner

Social Security Administration

U.S. Embassy, Manila

1201 Roxas Boulevard, Ermita

Manila 0930 Philippines

Tel: (+632) 5301-2459

Fax: (+632) 8708-9714/9723

 

Note: No record of this email message has been made.  If you should write again concerning this matter, please include your previous email message.

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

 

 

 

 

From: |FBU Manila <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2019 10:12 AM
To: Cayetuna, Sarah - FSP Manila <[email protected]>
Subject: HEPLER: DEATH

 

 

 

From: Tom Hepler <[email protected]>
.

 

Sender notified by Mailtrack 11/17/19, 04:27:02 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BTempleman]

Please read for yourself. 

 

https://www.ssa.gov/international/payments.html

[rcoyote]

I married a Myanmar woman in Myanmar. I am a US citizen that doesn't collect my SS yet. I will wait until full retirement - if I make it that far.  Can my wife receive SS benefits if I die? What could I do to make her eligible for benefits? We plan on visiting the US within a year. Thanks. 

[cmarshall]

On 1/19/2020 at 8:20 PM, rcoyote said:

I married a Myanmar woman in Myanmar. I am a US citizen that doesn't collect my SS yet. I will wait until full retirement - if I make it that far.  Can my wife receive SS benefits if I die? What could I do to make her eligible for benefits? We plan on visiting the US within a year. Thanks. 

1.  Move to the US, get her a green card, and live there together for at least 5 years.  Or

2.  Move to the US, get her a green card, and have her apply for naturalization.

 

# 2 is the strongest claim to SS benefits, but #1 should be sufficient provided the documentation is sufficient.

[rcoyote]

Thanks cm.. That would be my best plan. In the case that we only travel there together a few times, is there an option? ie. apply for a social security card etc?  We've had some problems getting a visa, I'd like to find if it's easier to get a fiance visa over a tourist visa... I thought tourist but we were turned down. thanks again.

[WalkingOrders]

Yes, but remember age 62 is not the full amount. I wasn't sure from your post if that was the early age amount or not.

[cmarshall]

22 hours ago, rcoyote said:

Thanks cm.. That would be my best plan. In the case that we only travel there together a few times, is there an option? ie. apply for a social security card etc?  We've had some problems getting a visa, I'd like to find if it's easier to get a fiance visa over a tourist visa... I thought tourist but we were turned down. thanks again.

No, those are the only two options.  Visiting for short periods will definitely not qualify her for SS benefits on your earnings record.  If you proceed to try to get her a visa so that she can eventually get a green card and possibly citizenship, then I suggest you search on the the internet for websites devoted to immigration.  There are plenty of them, usually run by law firms practicing immigration law, and they have up-to-date information about how USCIS is currently processing applications for the various kinds of status.  You will be able to determine which status is likely to be processed more quickly in your area.  

 

However, once she has been turned down for a visa the deck is stacked against her.  It will be hard to get immigration to overturn their first opinion.  Don't make the mistake of assuming that being married will make it any easier.  May make it worse.  Normally, it's not necessary to have a lawyer, but if she has already been refused you might need all the help you can get.  

 

If you do succeed in getting her over, my strong suggestion is that you enroll her in a high-quality English as a Second Language program, such as at a university and then prepare her for work/career.  

[rcoyote]

Thanks again. She was turned down for the tourist visa, however, they didn't stamp her passport. I would assume that there would be a computer entry that states what happened. We will try again this year and do more research before we do so. I've heard it has gotten much harder from an immigration angle, but not so much the tourist visa. Our problem is that we don't look too good on paper and I'd more than likely have to file a I-134 form with someone that would guarantee her stay/departure. I found a few immigration forums I'll start reading up on. thanks again for your comments. 

[rcoyote]

On 1/21/2020 at 9:25 AM, WalkingOrders said:

Yes, but remember age 62 is not the full amount. I wasn't sure from your post if that was the early age amount or not.

thanks. I plan on waiting until after age 65 or whatever the age is... need to check up on that. Im mainly concerned that if in the event I didn't make it that she could get at least partial benefits.