NonO Marriage Monthly Income Source

[Ozziepat]

General apologies for all of my questions. Every layer of the immigration onion seems to reveal a new layer. A response from someone who has recently attempted exactly the following in Chiang Mai, with result, would be very much appreciated: 

1. Will 12 consecutive monthly transfers (of at least 40,000 THB equivalent each) from the US Social Security Administration into my personal savings account in Bangkok Bank (to be established) satisfy in every way Immigration requirements for a Non-O (based on marriage) annual visa extension?

2. What will be the total costs per month to me? I believe these to be Bangkok-Bank-specific and consist of both fees and potentially sub-optimal exchange rates (USD to THB). For example purposes a monthly transfer amount of $1500 will do. Please correct me if I am wrong about anything, and please note whether or not the bank branch location in Chiang Mai is relevant.  

[ubonjoe]

1. Yes

   But you will need proof they were transferred from abroad.

2. You have a couple of option to transfer your SSA payments into the country.

    One is to open a direct deposit account at Bangkok Bank have them transferred visa thier branch in New York. The fee will be $5 deducted in New York and 200 baht here. Every transfer will be shown as a foreign transfer.

Info here: https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch

The other is to have your payments done by the the SSA using international direct deposits done into your account. The problem is that the payments will come in via the Bank of Thailand and will be shown shown a BahtNet. You would need to get credit advices to prove they came from abroad. IDD sign up form is here. https://www.ssa.gov/forms/ssa-1199-op107.pdf  There is no fee for it but the exchange rate may not be a good as other options since the conversion is done in the US.

[Peter Denis]

TIP: When you initiate the monthly transfers, choose a date for arrival of the transfers that is not at the very beginning or at the very end of the month.  Due to delays in transfers, weekends, official holidays, that might result in 2 transfers arriving in same month (and none in another). 

Ridiculous, petty and childish to make a point of this, but there have been cases reported of retirees having their extension denied because 'no transfer in EVERY month'.

[Ozziepat]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

1. Yes

   But you will need proof they were transferred from abroad.

2. You have a couple of option to transfer your SSA payments into the country.

    One is to open a direct deposit account at Bangkok Bank have them transferred visa thier branch in New York. The fee will be $5 deducted in New York and 200 baht here. Every transfer will be shown as a foreign transfer.

Info here: https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch

The other is to have your payments done by the the SSA using international direct deposits done into your account. The problem is that the payments will come in via the Bank of Thailand and will be shown shown a BahtNet. You would need to get credit advices to prove they came from abroad. IDD sign up form is here. https://www.ssa.gov/forms/ssa-1199-op107.pdf  There is no fee for it but the exchange rate may not be a good as other options since the conversion is done in the US.

Thanks. Never quite simple, is it? Well, I should be able to manage one of these methods. I'll probably look into Transferwise also and compare all the pros and cons.

[Ozziepat]

14 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

TIP: When you initiate the monthly transfers, choose a date for arrival of the transfers that is not at the very beginning or at the very end of the month.  Due to delays in transfers, weekends, official holidays, that might result in 2 transfers arriving in same month (and none in another). 

Ridiculous, petty and childish to make a point of this, but there have been cases reported of retirees having their extension denied because 'no transfer in EVERY month'.

Not ridiculous... This is exactly the kind of detail that helps to prevent potential problems. Thanks.

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, Ozziepat said:

Thanks. Never quite simple, is it? Well, I should be able to manage one of these methods. I'll probably look into Transferwise also and compare all the pros and cons.

i have been using the direct deposit via New York for over 7 years and I am very pleased with it. It requires going to the bank to move the funds to another account or to withdraw it in person.

Since the SSA payments arrive on the 3rd of the month there has only been one payment that came in on the 30th when Labor Day fell on Monday the the 3rd. That was in 2018 and it was not even mentioned by immigration when I applied for my extension in August of last year.

It made applying for my extension much easier since I was able to get a year of statements that showed all the transfers coming as foreign telegraphic transfers (FTT).

[Peter Denis]

2 hours ago, Ozziepat said:

I'll probably look into Transferwise also and compare all the pros and cons.

PM-ed you some info on Transferwise (and specifically how to ensure that your transfers end up as international transfers on your bank-book - required to prove the origin of the funds).

To access your PM-messages click on the letter icon next to your profile when logged into the Forum.

[Ozziepat]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

i have been using the direct deposit via New York for over 7 years and I am very pleased with it.

Thanks, ubonjoe. I saw some recent references to a change in the NY Bangkok Bank process that adversely affected the coding of transfers on the Thai end, so I had written off that option. Sounds like that's not a problem?

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, Ozziepat said:

Thanks, ubonjoe. I saw some recent references to a change in the NY Bangkok Bank process that adversely affected the coding of transfers on the Thai end, so I had written off that option. Sounds like that's not a problem?

No change for the direct deposit from to the SSA to the New York branch other than the coding for the transfer had to be in the IAT format. If using a Thai address for the SSA there was not a problem with them.

No problem with my transfers since they apparently have been in the IAT format for a long time.

 

[Ozziepat]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

No change for the direct deposit from to the SSA to the New York branch other than the coding for the transfer had to be in the IAT format. If using a Thai address for the SSA there was not a problem with them.

No problem with my transfers since they apparently have been in the IAT format for a long time.

Sounds like maybe the key is having a Thai address on file with the SSA, or at least that will ensure correct coding throughout barring some future change I don't need to worry about now. Thanks again for blazing trails and sharing the knowledge gained.

[Ozziepat]

12 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

No change for the direct deposit from to the SSA to the New York branch other than the coding for the transfer had to be in the IAT format.

A final bit (I hope, before I become intolerably tiresome.) Exchange rate USD to THB: Fees aside, does the NY Bangkok Bank route yield a mid-market rate, or near that (similar to what TransferWise advertises or can be found on xe.com, for example)?

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, Ozziepat said:

A final bit (I hope, before I become intolerably tiresome.) Exchange rate USD to THB: Fees aside, does the NY Bangkok Bank route yield a mid-market rate, or near that (similar to what TransferWise advertises or can be found on xe.com, for example)?

You will get the T/T transfer rate that Bangkok Bank is using for the day your transfer arrives here.

You can find the rates for today here. https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/View-Rates/Foreign-Exchange-Rates

[Ozziepat]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You will get the T/T transfer rate that Bangkok Bank is using for the day your transfer arrives here.

Thanks, yet again. Have great year.

[judokrab]

17 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

TIP: When you initiate the monthly transfers, choose a date for arrival of the transfers that is not at the very beginning or at the very end of the month.  Due to delays in transfers, weekends, official holidays, that might result in 2 transfers arriving in same month (and none in another). 

Ridiculous, petty and childish to make a point of this, but there have been cases reported of retirees having their extension denied because 'no transfer in EVERY month'.

Yes, that’s true for retirement extensions, but the OP is asking about marriage extensions. 

[UKresonant]

4 hours ago, judokrab said:

Yes, that’s true for retirement extensions, but the OP is asking about marriage extensions. 

They apparently can be muppets when doing the marriage extensions as well from what I've read. Just depends how intelegent the person your dealing with on the day is I suppose.

There was a post a while back saying at one office that they could see that the overseas source, had sent and the money had arrived, without stupid, it's not the right code, etc

[Max69xl]

On 1/9/2020 at 9:44 AM, Ozziepat said:

Not ridiculous... This is exactly the kind of detail that helps to prevent potential problems. Thanks.

This is a screenshot from TransferWise January 10. 

[Ozziepat]

4 hours ago, Max69xl said:

This is a screenshot from TransferWise January 10. 

Thank you.

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, Ozziepat said:

Thank you.

If you convert the 200 baht receiving fee into US$ and add the 5$ sending fee + the difference between the exchange rates, TW gives you the mid-market rate, and is better than you get at Bangkok Bank, you'll see that the fees will be almost the same. 

[Ozziepat]

1 minute ago, Max69xl said:

If you convert the 200 baht receiving fee into US$ and add the 5$ sending fee + the difference between the exchange rates, TW gives you the mid-market rate, and is better than you get at Bangkok Bank, you'll see that the fees will be almost the same. 

Thank you and yes, you are correct. I did that using an original transfer amount of $1800 along with the current TW and BKB rates and fees. The difference in favor of the BKB route came out to be 19 Baht, or an insignificant annual cost difference in the neighborhood of 230 THB assuming similar monthly differences. But that difference could easily disappear because the BKB route forces the full SSA payment to be sent and converted every month at the prevailing BKB rate, whereas the TW amount can vary and allows some discretion regarding when, or if, any "unneeded" difference is converted to Baht. 

[Max69xl]

1 minute ago, Ozziepat said:

Thank you and yes, you are correct. I did that using an original transfer amount of $1800 along with the current TW and BKB rates and fees. The difference in favor of the BKB route came out to be 19 Baht, or an insignificant annual cost difference in the neighborhood of 230 THB assuming similar monthly differences. But that difference could easily disappear because the BKB route forces the full SSA payment to be sent and converted every month at the prevailing BKB rate, whereas the TW amount can vary and allows some discretion regarding when, or if, any "unneeded" difference is converted to Baht. 

The exchange rate at TW will always be the mid-market rate and will always be better than Bangkok Banks. And the rate is guaranteed,while Bangkok Banks isn't. 

[Ozziepat]

1 minute ago, Max69xl said:

The exchange rate at TW will always be the mid-market rate and will always be better than Bangkok Banks. And the rate is guaranteed,while Bangkok Banks isn't. 

Good points. Thanks again.

[ubonjoe]

15 hours ago, Max69xl said:

This is a screenshot from TransferWise January 10. 

(Note: edited to reduce size of original image)

I wonder if there would be any hidden costs of doing it such as fees from the bank it was sent to transferwise from.

I did a calculation using the fees I mentioned in my earlier post for having his payments direct deposited via Bangkok Bank in New York.

The are $1500 - $5 (NY fee) = $1495 X 30.11 (TT rate yesterday) = ฿45,014.45 - ฿200 (fee) = ฿44,814.45. That is only a ฿16.19 difference that is only about $.54 less than TW.

[Ozziepat]

26 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

wonder if there would be any hidden costs of doing it such as fees from the bank it was sent to transferwise from.

I did a calculation using the fees I mentioned in my earlier post for having his payments direct deposited via Bangkok Bank in New York.

The are $1500 - $5 (NY fee) = $1495 X 30.11 (TT rate yesterday) = ฿45,014.45 - ฿200 (fee) = ฿44,814.45. That is only a ฿16.19 difference that is only about $.54 less than TW.

Yes. I worked through a similar computation for $1800 and came up with a 19 Baht difference, which nowadays is about $0.63. There are other differences that will require some further thought on my part. I just hate the thought of parking hundreds of thousands of Baht in an account that serves no useful purpose beyond meeting a visa extension requirement, so I'll pick one of the monthly deposit options and eat the cost.

[john terry1001]

26 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I wonder if there would be any hidden costs of doing it such as fees from the bank it was sent to transferwise from.

I did a calculation using the fees I mentioned in my earlier post for having his payments direct deposited via Bangkok Bank in New York.

The are $1500 - $5 (NY fee) = $1495 X 30.11 (TT rate yesterday) = ฿45,014.45 - ฿200 (fee) = ฿44,814.45. That is only a ฿16.19 difference that is only about $.54 less than TW.

I can't comment on the US banking system which seems complex when compared for (most of) the rest of the world but there are definitely no hidden fees on any transfers from the UK and the rest of Europe, either the sending bank or the Thai receiving bank. The advertised TW fees are the only cost.

 

There have been several Americans who now use Transferwise successfully and, once set up properly, nobody has reported any hidden bank fees on this forum, unless I've missed it.

 

 

[Ozziepat]

1 minute ago, john terry1001 said:

I can't comment on the US banking system which seems complex when compared for (most of) the rest of the world but there are definitely no hidden fees on any transfers from the UK and the rest of Europe, either the sending bank or the Thai receiving bank. The advertised TW fees are the only cost.

 

There have been several Americans who now use Transferwise successfully and, once set up properly, nobody has reported any hidden bank fees on this forum, unless I've missed it.

Thanks. That's good to know. I think if the US were an ugly exception somehow (extra hidden fees...), we'd have heard about it.

[ubonjoe]

59 minutes ago, Ozziepat said:

Yes. I worked through a similar computation for $1800 and came up with a 19 Baht difference, which nowadays is about $0.63. There are other differences that will require some further thought on my part. I just hate the thought of parking hundreds of thousands of Baht in an account that serves no useful purpose beyond meeting a visa extension requirement, so I'll pick one of the monthly deposit options and eat the cost.

In my opinion having your SSA payments direct deposited to via NY is a almost worry free way to do it. Just set up a SMS notification for your account and you will get one informing you that SSA had sent $XXX (minus $5) to your account, the exchange rate and info about the 200 baht fee.

Edit: This is the one for this month. 

Another big advantage to it is that every transfer will be shown as a international transfer when it comes time to apply for an extension of stay.

Some people say that having to go to the bank to withdraw or transfer your money to another account is a pain but IMO and experience it is not that big of a problem. I do everything at a small branch located at Tesco Lotus here so even the trip would be one I might do to go shopping after doing it.

 

 

[john terry1001]

51 minutes ago, Ozziepat said:

Thanks. That's good to know. I think if the US were an ugly exception somehow (extra hidden fees...), we'd have heard about it.

I think, in the early days of the change in monthly income requirements, there were some US banks that did make charges as part of the ACH system you have. This also caused delays in transfers compared to the rest of us. Things have, I think, settled down now and, as I understand it, (one of) the most efficient way for Americans to use Transferwise appears to be for them to open a TW Borderless Account and use that. 

 

If, for example, you have a SSA payment/other Pension etc you can arrange to have that paid directly into your TW Borderless Account automatically. It's just as easy to make one off/other transfers from your US bank account whenever needed as well. Then simply transfer as much/little as you need directly into your Thai bank account as and when you need to.

 

All transfers will be shown as international transfers and, apart from the TW fee, there are no other charges. And you get a better exchange rate than normal bank TT rates offer.

[Max69xl]

4 hours ago, Ozziepat said:

Yes. I worked through a similar computation for $1800 and came up with a 19 Baht difference, which nowadays is about $0.63. There are other differences that will require some further thought on my part. I just hate the thought of parking hundreds of thousands of Baht in an account that serves no useful purpose beyond meeting a visa extension requirement, so I'll pick one of the monthly deposit options and eat the cost.

Putting the money in a fixed deposit account isn't bad. 1,5-2,0% (12-24 months) interest. Even with 15% tax, it's still many thousand baht a year. 

[Max69xl]

4 hours ago, Ozziepat said:

Thanks. That's good to know. I think if the US were an ugly exception somehow (extra hidden fees...), we'd have heard about it.

You remember the screenshot I sent you? It said Total fee. So,no hidden fees what so ever.

[Max69xl]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I wonder if there would be any hidden costs of doing it such as fees from the bank it was sent to transferwise from.

I did a calculation using the fees I mentioned in my earlier post for having his payments direct deposited via Bangkok Bank in New York.

The are $1500 - $5 (NY fee) = $1495 X 30.11 (TT rate yesterday) = ฿45,014.45 - ฿200 (fee) = ฿44,814.45. That is only a ฿16.19 difference that is only about $.54 less than TW.

There are no hidden fees when it says 'Total fee'. In Europe you can use the so called 'Low cost transfer' option, then you transfer the money yourself to a local TW account,and then TW transfers the money to your thai account. In many countries domestic transfers are free.