Thais drivers calling because they can't read a map (taxi, Grab, delivery)

[scottiddled]

[Disclaimers: I love it here, I am endeavoring to improve my Thai language skills (it's an uphill battle), and most problems in Thailand have worked out as friendly people usually put in some effort. And this is hardly a major issue.]

 

All that said, I find it mildly annoying how common it is for Thai drivers (mostly Grab drivers, sometimes delivery drivers) to feel the need to call you on the phone. There are two elements at play.

 

On one hand, if you can't speak fluent Thai, the phone conversation isn't going to accomplish much. These drivers are able to see the customer name--and the name sure isn't Thai. Do they expect a fluent farang? Either way, the conversation more often than not decreases my confidence that the driver is actually going to arrive.

 

The other element is related. One of the major positive features of using an app or web order is you get to avoid awkward conversations and explaining directions. Yay, technology! These drivers are accepting a Grab booking or preparing a nearby delivery in situation where they can see exactly where they are supposed to go: both in writing and on a map. In the case of Grab, the app can even direct them. In all cases, the driver is calling from a cell phone and can easily use an app to find the location and the best route.

 

I found it annoying in my home country when I would get an unnecessary call from a driver, restaurant, etc. Or, for that matter, from anyone. Maybe it's a generational thing when it comes to loathing phone calls. Every once in a blue moon, the call is necessary (driver is having a problem, restaurant is out of an item you ordered), but even then, it's a "bad news" call. When you throw in a language barrier--a big reason non-Thai speakers would prefer to avoid ordering a taxi/food by phone and gravitate toward web/apps--the desire to avoid phone calls is even greater.

 

Come on, Thailand. You can read a map. Just come to the dot. No need to chat me up. ????

Edited January 9, 2020 by scottiddled
style

[CharlieH]

Ever considered they are checking to see if you are home ? so they dont make a wasted journey to deliver that parcel ? Many of these delivery drivers get paid by the item and if its not delivered they dont get paid twice to come back another day.

 

Likewise for the Taxi driver, telling you he is near, gets you ready to leave, and him not wasting time waiting for you to get yourself together.

[robblok]

11 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Ever considered they are checking to see if you are home ? so they dont make a wasted journey to deliver that parcel ? Many of these delivery drivers get paid by the item and if its not delivered they dont get paid twice to come back another day.

 

Likewise for the Taxi driver, telling you he is near, gets you ready to leave, and him not wasting time waiting for you to get yourself together.

Delivery drivers always call me to see if I'm home. Some of the less experienced ones call for directions too. I had one today calling me. Not a hassle but never know if it works.

 

I like the app grab and thankfully they almost never call about it. Nice to have food delivered without much hassle.

[scottiddled]

23 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Ever considered they are checking to see if you are home ? so they dont make a wasted journey to deliver that parcel ? Many of these delivery drivers get paid by the item and if its not delivered they dont get paid twice to come back another day.

 

Likewise for the Taxi driver, telling you he is near, gets you ready to leave, and him not wasting time waiting for you to get yourself together.

Good point about parcel delivery. If it's Ikea calling to make sure I'll be home in an hour, that's fine. 

 

I was writing more about food delivery drivers calling 2 minutes after you order. Sometimes they even ask to confirm what was ordered, which is weird. 

[Lacessit]

I don't think many Thais are taught to read a map. The people in my GF's village can't.

Perhaps certain elements in Thailand feel more comfortable knowing few of the poorer Thais can find them.

[smutcakes]

13 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I don't think many Thais are taught to read a map. The people in my GF's village can't.

Perhaps certain elements in Thailand feel more comfortable knowing few of the poorer Thais can find them.

Its not just village Thais who cant. In our office i would say its 50/50 on those who could or not and most of these are chula, thammasat, mahidol, assumption graduates. Its just not a skill they teach at school anymore.

 

Having said that i bet you could ask a group of 30 and unders in your home country and the number proficient in map reading would be far lower than 10-20 years ago.

 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

Its not just village Thais who cant. In our office i would say its 50/50 on those who could or not and most of these are chula, thammasat, mahidol, assumption graduates. Its just not a skill they teach at school anymore.

 

Having said that i bet you could ask a group of 30 and unders in your home country and the number proficient in map reading would be far lower than 10-20 years ago.

 

 

 

 

You may be right. Skills in demand change with the times.

I'm tertiary-educated, but I'm damn sure there are subjects at secondary level now where I would be dunce of the class.

[narisarasgroove]

Different skill sets for different environments. When I was a kid there were always road maps around as my Dad did a fair bit of driving and as usual you tend to pick up skills without realising it, especially at a young age. I suspect there weren't that many road maps around for the local villagers all those years ago and ergo no kids to be curious about what Dad was looking at.

It applies equally the other way. I haven't met many Thais who don't know how to open a coconut or a durian in double quick time but I sure as heck have trouble doing it. How about you?

 

[jackdd]

I think it also has to do with people booking the service and sending a wrong location.

Many people don't know where they are living if you show them a map, so if their phone is locating the wrong location (not surprising when being indoors and trying to use GPS), the location might be off by a street or two. Especially in a city like Bangkok this could easily cost the taxi driver 15 minutes. So he calls to make sure that the location which you sent him is correct.

[tifino]

On 1/9/2020 at 8:33 PM, CharlieH said:

Ever considered they are checking to see if you are home ?

... 'just checking' to see if you are still hungry? 

 - because 'he' is...

[scottiddled]

7 hours ago, jackdd said:

I think it also has to do with people booking the service and sending a wrong location.

Many people don't know where they are living if you show them a map, so if their phone is locating the wrong location (not surprising when being indoors and trying to use GPS), the location might be off by a street or two. Especially in a city like Bangkok this could easily cost the taxi driver 15 minutes. So he calls to make sure that the location which you sent him is correct.

Jack,

 

That's a fair point. I guess I hadn't thought of it that way.

 

But just bear in mind what that'd mean: it'd mean that someone in my shoes, who gives accurate location/address, is getting called just because the rest of society is unreliable. So, take away some of the blame from the driver, who might think it's due diligence to ask, and shift it to Somchai who can't pinpoint where he lives?

 

That might be valid in some situations. I still don't buy it for booking a Grab, but I can see some scenarios where it's a factor.

[CNXexpat]

On 1/9/2020 at 4:05 PM, scottiddled said:

These drivers are able to see the customer name--and the name sure isn't Thai. Do they expect a fluent farang?

From which country do you come? If there the delivery drivers read a foreign name, what do you think would they do? Expecting that the customer understands the language of the country or wouldn´t they call? 

[Momofarang]

8 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I don't think many Thais are taught to read a map. The people in my GF's village can't.

Perhaps certain elements in Thailand feel more comfortable knowing few of the poorer Thais can find them.

Indeed, and immigration think that google maps printout are too complex, that's why they request a less "technical" hand drawn map to our house.

It is not only maps, most people here don't understand the significance of the zeros on the right of the numbers.

Had great fun today, I explained to my 8 years old daughter that addition and multiplication, unlike subtraction and division, are reflexive. Which she took 30 seconds to comprehend, while my wife (masters degree (Thai)) went to the kitchen, came back 10 minutes later with her delicious Lamb Madras, and said: "errr, think I got it, but could you say again?).

[scottiddled]

16 hours ago, CNXexpat said:

From which country do you come? If there the delivery drivers read a foreign name, what do you think would they do? Expecting that the customer understands the language of the country or wouldn´t they call? 

Interesting point, but there are major differences between Western countries and Thailand.

 

I come from a country where people with all sorts of diverse-looking names live as citizens. They can almost all speak the primary language. So you wouldn't really look at a name and think "they can't speak the language."

 

Still, online/app culture is such that an Uber/Grab driver, food delivery driver, etc. is unlikely to want/need to call to clarify where to go. They have the address and can read a map. Their phones give them directions. They trust that when someone orders a meal online, they got the order right and you don't need to call them to confirm (kind of defeats the purpose of ordering online and not calling to begin with).

 

And if someone visiting my country doesn't speak the language, they're far less likely to be ordering things online that require a phone conversation from the driver anyway. How would they figure out how to order (the website isn't in their language). In contrast, a significant portion of the people in Thailand at any given moment are non-Thai (many of them non-Asian) and speak English (or Mandarin, or Russian...). Their names look drastically different from Thai names. If you're a Grab driver in Bangkok and a white girl's face pops up with a name like Jane Smith, chances are better than not they're not going to speak much Thai. 

[CNXexpat]

4 hours ago, scottiddled said:

Interesting point, but there are major differences between Western countries and Thailand.

 

I come from a country where people with all sorts of diverse-looking names live as citizens. They can almost all speak the primary language. So you wouldn't really look at a name and think "they can't speak the language."

 

Still, online/app culture is such that an Uber/Grab driver, food delivery driver, etc. is unlikely to want/need to call to clarify where to go. They have the address and can read a map. Their phones give them directions. They trust that when someone orders a meal online, they got the order right and you don't need to call them to confirm (kind of defeats the purpose of ordering online and not calling to begin with).

 

And if someone visiting my country doesn't speak the language, they're far less likely to be ordering things online that require a phone conversation from the driver anyway. How would they figure out how to order (the website isn't in their language). In contrast, a significant portion of the people in Thailand at any given moment are non-Thai (many of them non-Asian) and speak English (or Mandarin, or Russian...). Their names look drastically different from Thai names. If you're a Grab driver in Bangkok and a white girl's face pops up with a name like Jane Smith, chances are better than not they're not going to speak much Thai. 

If I am in California or Florida, don´t speak English but Spanish, the website where I order is also in Spanish, can I expect that the delivery man speaks also Spanish? 

[scottiddled]

1 hour ago, CNXexpat said:

If I am in California or Florida, don´t speak English but Spanish, the website where I order is also in Spanish, can I expect that the delivery man speaks also Spanish? 

The delivery person doesn't need to speak anything in California or Florida. They know how to type an address into Google Maps and get there. If you need to communicate with them, your limited English and their (probably) limited Spanish will probably work out. 

[tropo]

On 1/9/2020 at 4:05 PM, scottiddled said:

[Disclaimers: I love it here, I am endeavoring to improve my Thai language skills (it's an uphill battle), and most problems in Thailand have worked out as friendly people usually put in some effort. And this is hardly a major issue.]

 

All that said, I find it mildly annoying how common it is for Thai drivers (mostly Grab drivers, sometimes delivery drivers) to feel the need to call you on the phone. There are two elements at play.

 

On one hand, if you can't speak fluent Thai, the phone conversation isn't going to accomplish much. These drivers are able to see the customer name--and the name sure isn't Thai. Do they expect a fluent farang? Either way, the conversation more often than not decreases my confidence that the driver is actually going to arrive.

 

The other element is related. One of the major positive features of using an app or web order is you get to avoid awkward conversations and explaining directions. Yay, technology! These drivers are accepting a Grab booking or preparing a nearby delivery in situation where they can see exactly where they are supposed to go: both in writing and on a map. In the case of Grab, the app can even direct them. In all cases, the driver is calling from a cell phone and can easily use an app to find the location and the best route.

 

I found it annoying in my home country when I would get an unnecessary call from a driver, restaurant, etc. Or, for that matter, from anyone. Maybe it's a generational thing when it comes to loathing phone calls. Every once in a blue moon, the call is necessary (driver is having a problem, restaurant is out of an item you ordered), but even then, it's a "bad news" call. When you throw in a language barrier--a big reason non-Thai speakers would prefer to avoid ordering a taxi/food by phone and gravitate toward web/apps--the desire to avoid phone calls is even greater.

 

Come on, Thailand. You can read a map. Just come to the dot. No need to chat me up. ????

I find it very annoying too, as I often get calls from couriers that have my address written clearly on the parcels, asking me where I am. They probably expect that all Farang have got Thai partners to help with these conversations. Sometimes these people have detailed maps in addition to the address. Of course this leaves me to run around looking for a Thai person to help them with directions.

 

An incident a couple of months ago takes the cake. I was expecting a package from Hong Kong, by EMS. It was a valuable package. EMS tracking indicated the package had been signed for, but by a person I don't know. Eventually I found out the package had been delivered to a condo down the road because the guy that signed called my telephone number that was on the package. These are mailmen, that cannot find well marked addresses, but not to worry, if they can't find the address they just give the package to someone else. 

[Zikomat]

Most of Thais are not fond of maps. There is too much abstract thing in the maps. Abstraction is always suspicious. 

[donnacha]

I am always bemused by these calls, especially Grab drivers and Grab Food.

The kicker in my case is that I also include my house number and street address in the order notes that the drivers are meant to read. They apparently find it easier to just call.

I don't speak any Thai either but it appears that hearty encouragement does that trick:

"Yes, okay, yes, I am here, look on the map, yes, I am there, blue dot on the map, okay? Yes? Okay! Yes!"

Somehow they do always managed to find me, so, I think it is more that they are reluctant to use the map and will only do so as an absolute last resort, despite the entire Grab business being built on maps and blue GPS dots.

I grumbled to my partner about this just the other day and she said that it is not as easy as Westerners think, we get taught this stuff in school, they don't. I somehow find that hard to believe. Aren't maps something kids would pick up naturally, especially being raised on video games. Now that everyone has smartphones, too, surely there is a huge incentive to use the free map apps.

 

[White Christmas13]

53 minutes ago, Zikomat said:

Most of Thais are not fond of maps. There is too much abstract thing in the maps. Abstraction is always suspicious. 

No they can't read maps my wife(ex now) has been in Australia for 15 years and my nephew,seven years in Australia not one can read a map. They use their GPS on their phones,I use my map before I depart and I am

faster than they are.

[fhickson]

sorry to say, but its stupidity.

 

they cant follow a simple gps map with a moving location and target marker. thats what grab is. as simple as it gets.

Edited January 11, 2020 by fhickson

[Langsuan Man]

Why do you think Thailand was never colonized by a foreign power ? ; there were no maps available for any invader to use 

[jackdd]

13 hours ago, tropo said:

They probably expect that all Farang have got Thai partners to help with these conversations.

Why would somebody need a Thai partner to explain your location? This is some of the most basic Thai.

I would feel kind of helpless if i would have to rely on other people to do such basic tasks. Does your mother partner also have to make a doctors appointment for you or take you to the bank?

 

12 hours ago, donnacha said:

Aren't maps something kids would pick up naturally, especially being raised on video games. Now that everyone has smartphones, too, surely there is a huge incentive to use the free map apps.

Wouldn't speaking Thai be something that people would pick up naturally when living in Thailand? No? Then why do you expect that they naturally learn to use a map.

[scottiddled]

Quote

  14 hours ago, tropo said:

They probably expect that all Farang have got Thai partners to help with these conversations.

Why would somebody need a Thai partner to explain your location? This is some of the most basic Thai.

I would feel kind of helpless if i would have to rely on other people to do such basic tasks. Does your mother partner also have to make a doctors appointment for you or take you to the bank?

 

  13 hours ago, donnacha said:

Aren't maps something kids would pick up naturally, especially being raised on video games. Now that everyone has smartphones, too, surely there is a huge incentive to use the free map apps.

Wouldn't speaking Thai be something that people would pick up naturally when living in Thailand? No? Then why do you expect that they naturally learn to use a map.

 

I'm usally on board with you, and I get the logic here, but I think you're a bit off/harsh here (the "mother partner" line, in particular).

 

Thai is hard. Really hard. I consider myself good with languages and I feel lost. Considering that I started work within a week of arriving (and had to settle in, get over the jet lag, etc.), it's not like I've had a ton of time for formal Thai lessons. My experience is not uncommon.

 

Like a lot of my colleagues and folks in similar situations, I'm trying to learn. I'm cobbling together "survival Thai." Reading? That's probably not going to happen any time soon. Telephone conversations over a staticky line with a driver from Isan? It's a real struggle. I have HR to help me through some things (setting up the bank account), and kind friends/colleagues who are willing to make a phone call or translate a letter if need be. To your point: yes, I "feel kind of helpless" (or at least limited in my options) from time to time. That's strangely related to this thread. Using something like Grab or ordering food delivery online is something I would do a bit less if I had mastery of the language. The technology is supposed to function to reduce the need for vocal communication.

 

There's another element here that I'm a little uneasy throwing out there, but I will anyway. Every Thai studies English--even at government schools--for years. This isn't a "you should speak my language!" argument by any stretch, but it is shocking how bad the English skills can be in Thai professional environments. If I go into a bank with 8 employees, yes, I feel that someone should have enough "survival English" that--combined with my "survival Thai" and some good will (and maybe a little technology)--enables us to have a successful interaction. Same with a hospital. 

 

Sadly, that's not always the case. 

Edited January 12, 2020 by scottiddled
trying (unsuccessfuly) to fix a bungled nested quote

[scottiddled]

14 hours ago, donnacha said:

I am always bemused by these calls, especially Grab drivers and Grab Food.

The kicker in my case is that I also include my house number and street address in the order notes that the drivers are meant to read. They apparently find it easier to just call.

I don't speak any Thai either but it appears that hearty encouragement does that trick:

"Yes, okay, yes, I am here, look on the map, yes, I am there, blue dot on the map, okay? Yes? Okay! Yes!"

Somehow they do always managed to find me, so, I think it is more that they are reluctant to use the map and will only do so as an absolute last resort, despite the entire Grab business being built on maps and blue GPS dots.

I grumbled to my partner about this just the other day and she said that it is not as easy as Westerners think, we get taught this stuff in school, they don't. I somehow find that hard to believe. Aren't maps something kids would pick up naturally, especially being raised on video games. Now that everyone has smartphones, too, surely there is a huge incentive to use the free map apps.

 

I must've been absent the day they taught Google Maps navigation in school. Or I finished school before smartphones were a thing, that's right. Westerners still aren't (to my knowledge, as someone involved in the education system) extensively schooled on Google Maps or navigation in general.

 

Maybe some of it has to do with Thais not being good with maps, as some posters say. But I think there's something to the whole notion that they just find it more comfortable/convenient to call, as if they'll figure it out faster if they talk to you and ignore the information they've received (or talk to you AND look at it). There are some Westerners who are like this too--the kind who never really got into the whole "texting" thing who think it's easier to settle something with a call. Yeah, they're right sometimes. But we're in an era of discontinuous, "don't-bother-me" communication. And Thais are in that era, too.

 

It's one thing if an older relative who hates texting wants to call, or if a colleague who really wants to talk through something prefers a chat (or a sit-down). There's value to that. But redundant phone calls from strangers who should be able to figure things out on their own? No thank you. It defeats the purpose of the app/online order: providing all that information in writing (or better) so the customer can avoid confusion and move on with their life until the driver arrives.

[observer90210]

I still prefer 1000 times a GRAB, then an official Thai taxi and/or tukTuk cheat....and will continue to use Uber/Grab.

[donnacha]

2 hours ago, jackdd said:

Wouldn't speaking Thai be something that people would pick up naturally when living in Thailand? No? Then why do you expect that they naturally learn to use a map.

 

Because it is their job, the thing they do professionally, for a living.

Because the map is right there, in front of them, in the app.

Because the map is of their city, which they spend most of their time driving around, whereas the customer is possibly not a local.

Because it is ridiculous, sanctimonious bullcrap to expect the almost 40 million foreigners who visit Thailand every year to learn a complex, tonal language to the level of conversational fluency necessary to direct a caller to their location.

I am so sick of this greasy, hypocritical modern habit of turning everything into moral oneupmanship.

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by donnacha

[metempsychotic]

On 1/10/2020 at 4:25 PM, smutcakes said:

Its not just village Thais who cant. In our office i would say its 50/50 on those who could or not and most of these are chula, thammasat, mahidol, assumption graduates. Its just not a skill they teach at school anymore.

 

Having said that i bet you could ask a group of 30 and unders in your home country and the number proficient in map reading would be far lower than 10-20 years ago.

 

 

 

 

I doubt it given they all use satnav in cars etc.

 

Map reading here is a major issue though. 

 

I find most drivers can follow a google map up until they are right on top of the destination.

Edited January 12, 2020 by metempsychotic

[scottiddled]

4 hours ago, metempsychotic said:

I doubt it given they all use satnav in cars etc.

 

Map reading here is a major issue though. 

 

I find most drivers can follow a google map up until they are right on top of the destination.

I actually had a taxi driver stare at my phone for over a minute, twisting it and rotating it, with it displaying a Google maps route of a straight line...

 

...the road he was already on

...going the same direction he was facing.

 

I even clicked "start" and zoomed out so he could see it was a straight line forward. I then explained "go straight, 7 km" (I can at least say that much in Thai).

 

I ultimately gave up and went up to the next driver at the taxi stand. If someone is that stupid, that deceptive (i.e. they get it and are playing dumb for some reason), or that bad at navigating, I don't want them driving me.

[tropo]

10 hours ago, jackdd said:

Why would somebody need a Thai partner to explain your location? This is some of the most basic Thai.

I would feel kind of helpless if i would have to rely on other people to do such basic tasks. Does your mother partner also have to make a doctors appointment for you or take you to the bank?

Don't be ridiculous. It takes a Thai person quite a while to explain my location on a phone, and you're bragging that you could achieve it with your basic Thai. I'm calling bs on that - you would not be able to... but rather than using this thread to boast about your Thai language skills, it's about the fact that couriers and other people cannot follow basic maps.

 

And in reply to your comment about needing a mother to take care of my basic needs etc.... ********

Edited January 12, 2020 by tropo