Canada, under pressure at home over plane crash, warns Iran world is watching

[rooster59]

Canada, under pressure at home over plane crash, warns Iran world is watching

By Steve Scherer and Rod Nickel

 

Mourners attend an outdoor vigil for the victims of a Ukrainian passenger jet which crashed in Iran, in Toronto, Ontario, Canada January 9, 2020. REUTERS/Chris Helgren

 

OTTAWA/EDMONTON, Alberta (Reuters) - The Canadian government, under pressure at home to be tougher on Iran over intelligence reports it shot down a passenger jet, on Friday reiterated calls for a full probe into the disaster and warned Tehran that "the world is watching".

 

Friends and families of some of the Canadians killed when a Ukrainian airliner crashed outside Tehran are demanding Prime Minister Justin Trudeau take a harder stance after accusing Iran of downing the plane, albeit probably by mistake. Iran denies the charge.

 

"Time will tell and the world is watching," said Foreign Minister Francois-Philippe Champagne when asked whether Iran was conducting its probe into what happened in good faith.

 

"I think transparency is what the international community is looking for now," he told a news conference.

 

Champagne said Ottawa now thought 57 Canadians died in the crash, down from an initial 63, and said an emergency task force was being created to help the families of the victims.

 

While Trudeau faces pressure at home to respond strongly, he has few options, especially after Canada broke off diplomatic relations with Tehran in 2012. Iran has said it will allow Canadian, U.S. and other international officials to participate in the investigation into Wednesday's crash.

 

The prime minister "completely misses the point" when he does not condemn the Iranian government, said Ali Ashtari, 39, a data scientist from Toronto who lost a friend in the crash.

 

Ashtari said Canada should designate Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) as a terrorist organization and impose sanctions on them. The government already lists the IRGC's overseas arm, the Quds Force, as a terrorist group.

 

"This is the minimum that we want from the government," Ashtari said at a vigil in Toronto. "Otherwise it's just giving speech with teary eyes, it gives nothing."

 

Trudeau said Ottawa had demanded Canadian access to Iran to provide consular services, identify victims and participate in the crash investigation.

 

Champagne said Iran had granted two visas so far to Canadian officials.

 

The crash on Wednesday, which killed all 176 people on board, occurred as Iran was on alert for possible reprisals after it launched missiles on bases housing U.S. troops in Iraq.

 

"We would just urge him (Trudeau) to use all his power to find out what really happened and hold the responsible accountable," Amir Arsalani, who lost his sister, her husband and their one-year-old daughter, told Reuters.

 

Trudeau sidestepped questions on Thursday as to whether the United States should be held at least partially responsible given that Iran's attack on U.S. forces was in retaliation for a U.S. drone strike that killed Qassem Soleimani, former Quds Force leader.

 

    The Canadian Broadcasting Corp. cited two government sources as saying Washington should have warned Canada in advance about the drone strike. Ottawa also wants a more thorough explanation of the thinking behind the attack, they added.

 

Champagne did not answer questions about whether Canada should have been warned.

 

Ottawa is focusing in talks with allies on how it can play as large a role as possible in the probe rather than expressing anger against either Iran or the United States, according to three sources familiar with the private conversations.

 

"There has been no fingerpointing or blame at this stage," said one of the sources, who requested anonymity given the sensitivity of the situation.

 

Relations between Trudeau and U.S. President Donald Trump are formal at best, with Trudeau last month caught on camera joking about Trump, and the president calling him "two-faced".

 

There was no benefit to the government to further sour relations by making "a big public statement" about the United States, said Stephanie Carvin, a former national security analyst and international relations professor at Carleton University in Ottawa.

 

Ottawa's best option for now was to persuade like-minded nations to put pressure on Iran, she added.

 

Champagne said Canada had formed a coordinating group with Britain, Ukraine, Sweden and Afghanistan to help the families of the victims and pressure Iran for a full probe.

 

Trudeau has few ways to punish Iran in the short term. Bilateral trade - already limited by sanctions related to Iran's nuclear program - totalled just over C$200 million in 2018.

 

Trudeau was due to meet privately with family members of the victims in Toronto on Friday.

 

(Additional reporting by Moira Warburton and Allison Martell in Toronto, Steve Scherer, David Ljunggren and Kelsey Johnson in Ottawa; Editing by Frances Kerry and Sonya Hepinstall)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-01-11

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[Tug]

Iran just admitted to accidentally shooting down the airliner a sad mistake by a nation under threat of attack a tragic incident rip to the lost and condolences to all the affected so sad and utterly unessary 

[pegman]

Lot of blame to go around especially to the cretin in the WH

[evadgib]

Iran plane crash: Ukrainian jet was 'unintentionally' shot down - state TV

[Baerboxer]

4 hours ago, Tug said:

Iran just admitted to accidentally shooting down the airliner a sad mistake by a nation under threat of attack a tragic incident rip to the lost and condolences to all the affected so sad and utterly unessary 

 

Iran was only "under threat" because they engage in proxy terrorist attacks and insurgencies against others. And have been doing for a long time. 

 

The lunatic IRGC probably panicked and fired anti aircraft missiles and no one it seems had the intelligence to delay civil aircraft taking off. Ramshackle bunch of cowboys with little discipline or organization.

 

The current Iranian regime chooses to cause trouble and death. 

 

Stop trying to pretend otherwise and score a political point from that pretense.

[Baerboxer]

18 minutes ago, car720 said:

At least Iran had the goolies to man up to it.  Not like some would have done.

 

Having initially denied it, claiming the idea was preposterous and "scientifically impossible" their reversal has been quick.

 

Not sure bravery has anything to do with it.

[irwinfc]

what iran did is inexcusable. flight PS572 took off from their own airport. defending iran and blaming others is just ridiculous. i doubt any of the 176 mourning families would find that amusing.

[RichardColeman]

8 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Ashtari said Canada should designate Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) as a terrorist organization and impose sanctions on them.

I'd go further and declare it an act of War and get the world to nuke this regime and religion into the stoneage

[canuckamuck]

Trudeau is going to head to Iran and put on his Prince of Persia costume. That will make everyone happy again.

He was upset however, when he found out the Iranians aren't black

[ThaiFelix]

1 hour ago, RichardColeman said:

I'd go further and declare it an act of War and get the world to nuke this regime and religion into the stoneage

What an unbelievable statement?? 

[Scott]

Numerous off-topic posts and replies removed.  

 

[White Christmas13]

7 hours ago, irwinfc said:

what iran did is inexcusable. flight PS572 took off from their own airport. defending iran and blaming others is just ridiculous. i doubt any of the 176 mourning families would find that amusing.

Is that so but it is OK for the US to do the same thing?

 

Iran Air Flight 655

Aircraft accident

 

Description

Iran Air Flight 655 was a scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai via Bandar Abbas that was shot down on 3 July 1988 by an SM-2MR surface-to-air missile fired from USS Vincennes, a guided-missile cruiser of the United States Navy. Wikipedia

 

Date: 3 July 1988

Fatalities: 290

Survivor: 0

[tropo]

12 hours ago, pegman said:

Lot of blame to go around especially to the cretin in the WH

Nonsense. Your name is apt, trying to peg everything on Trump.

 

The blame is all with Iran. As there was a clear risk of incoming missiles after Iran's attack on the Iraqi military bases, all commercial aircraft should have been grounded. It should have been declared a no-fly zone.

[irwinfc]

9 hours ago, White Christmas13 said:

17 hours ago, irwinfc said:

what iran did is inexcusable. flight PS572 took off from their own airport. defending iran and blaming others is just ridiculous. i doubt any of the 176 mourning families would find that amusing.

Is that so but it is OK for the US to do the same thing?

please tell me in which instance is shooting diwn a civilian aircraft full of passengers is justified. what iran did is indefensible but people find ways to point a finger at others. 

[White Christmas13]

2 hours ago, irwinfc said:

please tell me in which instance is shooting diwn a civilian aircraft full of passengers is justified. what iran did is indefensible but people find ways to point a finger at others. 

Refresh your memory

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

[dexterm]

21 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Iran was only "under threat" because they engage in proxy terrorist attacks and insurgencies against others. And have been doing for a long time. 

 

The lunatic IRGC probably panicked and fired anti aircraft missiles and no one it seems had the intelligence to delay civil aircraft taking off. Ramshackle bunch of cowboys with little discipline or organization.

 

The current Iranian regime chooses to cause trouble and death. 

 

Stop trying to pretend otherwise and score a political point from that pretense.

Retaliation to US meddling in the Middle East doesn't occur in a vacuum.
It's the chicken and the egg.

I'm sure they don't tell you on Fox News that USA and its proxies in the Middle East on an almost daily basis bombs Hezbollah and Iranians in Syria, where they were invited unlike US forces, and have been doing so for the last decade.

 

Trump quite unnecessarily a few days ago under false pretences (Iraq war deja vu) upped the ante and heightened tensions by assassinating the Iranian second in command, the equivalent of Iran killing Mike Pence or Mike Pompeio?

 

In paragraphs 2 and 3 you contradict yourself.

First you say it was an accident "lunatic... probably panicked..no-one it seems had the intelligence".
Then you claim it was deliberate "chooses to cause trouble and death".

[irwinfc]

4 hours ago, White Christmas13 said:

Refresh your memory

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

are you saying that the shooting down of flight 655 was justified? please re-read my post. 

 

i blame the US over 655 as much as iran over PS752. but you won't read from me making excuses for the US and shifting blame. 

[White Christmas13]

4 minutes ago, irwinfc said:

are you saying that the shooting down of flight 655 was justified? please re-read my post. 

 

i blame the US over 655 as much as iran over PS752. but you won't read from me making excuses for the US and shifting blame. 

No No No, I questioned the post which says KLM flight and not Iran Air 655.

[irwinfc]

7 minutes ago, White Christmas13 said:

No No No, I questioned the post which says KLM flight and not Iran Air 655.

you quoted me and cited 655 twice (posts #13 & #17) 

[White Christmas13]

2 minutes ago, irwinfc said:

you quoted me and cited 655 twice (posts #13 & #17) 

Let me explain again I don't agree with shooting down any civilian aircraft.

655 was just an example it happen before and the villain was the US.

 

[tropo]

On 1/12/2020 at 1:53 PM, dexterm said:

Trump quite unnecessarily a few days ago under false pretences (Iraq war deja vu) upped the ante and heightened tensions by assassinating the Iranian second in command, the equivalent of Iran killing Mike Pence or Mike Pompeio?

He did what should have been done years ago, but no one had the balls to do it.

[JimmyTheMook]

Trudeau appears absolutely helpless over this.

 

[HuskerDo]

On 1/10/2020 at 11:27 PM, pegman said:

Lot of blame to go around especially to the cretin in the WH

Let me get this straight. Trump took out one of the nastiest people in the world who was responsible for countless death and suffering and you are blaming Trump because the "military" in Iran can't tell a passenger plane from a military aircraft? Really?

 

The only cretin in your argument is the one that was killed by the drone.  

[sucit]

Imagine if a person walked up to someone's wife and hit her in the face. The husband then pulls out a gun, shoots the face hitter, but misses and kills and innocent person in the background. 

 

Who's fault was it all? Shy doesn't Canada pressure the US more. I suppose it is all relayed to the US petro dollar. International opinion is always completely lopsided. 

[HuskerDo]

4 minutes ago, sucit said:

Imagine if a person walked up to someone's wife and hit her in the face. The husband then pulls out a gun, shoots the face hitter, but misses and kills and innocent person in the background. 

 

Who's fault was it all? Shy doesn't Canada pressure the US more. I suppose it is all relayed to the US petro dollar. International opinion is always completely lopsided. 

So you're comparing Trump's actions on a known terrorist who was involved in, and responsible for, much death to someone's innocent wife getting hit in the face. Incredible.

 

"Why doesn't Canada pressure the US more". Exactly how and why?  The US did nothing to Canada in the attack. When missiles are being fired between two countries the best plan is to NOT FLY commercial craft in the area. 

 

There is such a lack of common sense in the world.

[sucit]

2 minutes ago, HuskerDo said:

Let me get this straight. Trump took out one of the nastiest people in the world who was responsible for countless death and suffering and you are blaming Trump because the "military" in Iran can't tell a passenger plane from a military aircraft? Really?

 

The only cretin in your argument is the one that was killed by the drone.  

"responsible for countless deaths and suffering", "nastiest in the world".

 

I got mixed up there I thought based on your statements you were talking about the US. 

 

This just got released a few hours ago. Have a look, please. Give yourself an opportunity to understand what is actually going on in the world 

 

 

 

[sucit]

5 minutes ago, HuskerDo said:

So you're comparing Trump's actions on a known terrorist who was involved in, and responsible for, much death to someone's innocent wife getting hit in the face. Incredible.

 

"Why doesn't Canada pressure the US more". Exactly how and why?  The US did nothing to Canada in the attack. When missiles are being fired between two countries the best plan is to NOT FLY commercial craft in the area. 

 

There is such a lack of common sense in the world.

I just explained to you how and why with an analogy. The plane being shot down was so easily avoidable. It was shot down because Iran was bombing a US military base in Iraq and Iran was on high alert. This is the kind of tragic mistakes that happen during (highly unnecessary) conflicts. 

 

You think there is a lack of common sense because you have no idea what is going on. 

 

Answer this simple question: who is the aggressor in these recent conflicts? US or Iran? 

[HuskerDo]

2 minutes ago, sucit said:

I just explained to you how and why with an analogy. The plane being shot down was so easily avoidable. It was shot down because Iran was bombing a US military base in Iraq and Iran was on high alert. This is the kind of tragic mistakes that happen during (highly unnecessary) conflicts. 

You explained nothing.

 

"The plane being shot down was so easily avoidable".... yes, by not taking off when bombs are dropping all around. 

 

As I said before there is such a lack of common sense in the world.

[HuskerDo]

8 minutes ago, sucit said:

"responsible for countless deaths and suffering", "nastiest in the world".

 

I got mixed up there I thought based on your statements you were talking about the US. 

 

This just got released a few hours ago. Have a look, please. Give yourself an opportunity to understand what is actually going on in the world 

 

 

 

Let this guy go live in Iran and see how quickly he touts the US as the best place to be and comes crawling back.

[sucit]

5 minutes ago, HuskerDo said:

Let this guy go live in Iran and see how quickly he touts the US as the best place to be and comes crawling back.

So then, no matter what the US does, they are always right because the US is a better place to live?

 

First step: get an actual argument that doesn't fall flat on its face before even being responded to.