1 hour ago, Saltire said:

 

When my old-skool dad watched television reports of middle east countries protesting in the streets, he'd always say 'these people would follow a donkey'.

 

Much like some following the duck...

 

1 hour ago, AussieBob18 said:

Undoubtedly those blaming Trump for this are in need of a serious self-evaluation.  This issue is above politics. Of course it was accidental - innocent people died because of the incompetent Iran military and using this to make a political statement about Trump is disgusting.

 

 

I rest my case (and he’s not even from the land of Retardistan (see John Cadogan on YT))

1 hour ago, trainman34014 said:

Must say i've wondered from the start if it was shot down intentionally.  Not nice thoughts perhaps but when you consider there were 176 people on that Plane that would reach Western countries and be able to tell the World how the Iranian General Public were reacting to life in Iran at this time.   Remember just about three weeks ago they were protesting in the streets about how bad things were and it is said that the now dead General oversaw the killing of around 3,000 of his own people involved in the protests.   One can only imagine how many Iranian Nationals and people with Dual Nationality must be feeling right now and i doubt the devious and brutal Ruling Regime want too many people leaving the country and telling the rest of the World about it.

With people going in and out of the country on a daily basis and communications everywhere, your post makes no sense at all.

Edited January 11, 20206 yr by stevenl

5 minutes ago, JAG said:

Whilst I rather agree that the assassination was the trigger of a series of events which led to this shooting down of a civilian airliner it cannot be blamed on Trump.

 

It is what happens, almost inevitably, when a military force is effectively beyond control of a civil government, and is driven by ideology and religious or political fanaticism. 

 

I will not expect any meaningful action to be taken against the Revolutionary Guards. They answer only to the theocracy which rules Iran. To them, any Muslim victims are martyrs and any unbelievers of no account.

This sounds very familiar.

I agree.

Of course the person who fired the missile in error is responsible for the tragic deaths.

But you also have to ask yourself in clear conscience: what is the likelihood of this accident having happened even a week ago, when the atmosphere was not so jittery, and who had recently created that atmosphere by unnecessarily escalating the conflict.
Trump bears part of the responsibility for these deaths.

 

When leaders do reckless things, sometimes unexpected consequences occur.

 

RIP for the passengers and crew.

2 hours ago, ezzra said:

The whole bloody country of Iran is one human error as long as those muhllas are dictating life there and keeping magnificent country such as Iran in the dark ages...

Would it be in the USA's interest if they'd be be way more developed?

 

I a kind of doubt that. 

7 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Of course the person who fired the missile in error is responsible for the tragic deaths.

But you also have to ask yourself in clear conscience: what is the likelihood of this accident having happened even a week ago, when the atmosphere was not so jittery, and who had recently created that atmosphere by unnecessarily escalating the conflict.
Trump bears part of the responsibility for these deaths.

 

When leaders do reckless things, sometimes unexpected consequences occur.

 

RIP for the passengers and crew.

I agree Trump bears part of the responsibility but the main part is still the guy who fired the rocket. I wonder if he gets punished. Its rare for people in the military to get punished harsh. If you look at US mistakes they hardly ever punish them hard. I would not expect Iran to be any different. Though a lot of the victims are their own.

2 hours ago, Blackheart1916 said:

If it was shot down, then it has to be intentionally.

Iran Air Flight 655 was a scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai via Bandar Abbas that was shot down on 3 July 1988 by an SM-2MR surface-to-air missile fired from USS Vincennes, a guided-missile cruiser of the United States Navy.

Lying from the very first minute.

The head of of Iranian air safety on the day of the killing:

As an air safety agency we do not speculate, we have to find the facts.

But for sure it was not a rocket.

 

And the barbarians are already bulldozing the crash site!

What has become of a Persian high culture.

 

 

2 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

It wouldn’t have happened if that mistake of a human being sitting in the white house  hadn’t assassinated

Gwelloman, so I assume Trump should have just allowed Qassim Solemani to continue his objective of killing Americans.  I suppose however you had no problem with Obama having hundreds of military strikes and of course killing Osama Bin Laden.  Perhaps Trump should have followed Obama's example and let a few more terrorists out of Guantanamo and sent Iran a few hundred billion for good measure.  

 

 

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

Yes, they said it was mechanical failure until it came out that they had shot it down and then they admitted it. 
 

so yes, after they got caught they decided to do the right thing.

I  think id  mechanically  fail if  a missile  went up my jacksy.......mind you after todays  digging along with the other 4  months  worth I think ive already taken too  much inbound.....  dont mention the   1000 tons  of  stone.....slightly  off  topic

Maybe the russians can admit now they shot down Malaysian Air flight 17.

I don't understand why the Iranians let a passenger airplane leaving from Teheran while they waiting for incoming rockets,respectively shooting rockets to Iraq

45 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

Gwelloman, so I assume Trump should have just allowed Qassim Solemani to continue his objective of killing Americans.  I suppose however you had no problem with Obama having hundreds of military strikes and of course killing Osama Bin Laden.  Perhaps Trump should have followed Obama's example and let a few more terrorists out of Guantanamo and sent Iran a few hundred billion for good measure.  

 

 

The blame game is too obvious, and too futile; sure, we can go back to Mosaddegh, or Thermopylae if you like. But what happened in this latest dust-up is that virtually no military personnel lost their lives, whereas a few hundred civilians died (including at the funeral stampedes in Iran). What I see are two aggressive, hyperactive boys roughhousing in the living room while mom and dad are out, cheered on by other boys, and suddenly an antique lamp gets knocked over and busted. Whoops.

 

It’s been one of Obama’s better post-presidential ideas that maybe women should be given a shot at running the world (of course, many already have, but there are still notable barriers -- President Klobuchar, anyone?). Women might come up with the idea of using international support and cooperation to build a memorial at the Ukrainian Airlines crash site in Tehran and having everyone come for the opening, and while we’re all there, let’s seriously discuss ways to simmer down, starting with interests that we share, and how do we preserve those. Sure, that’s stupid and naïve (not to mention sexist), but at this point I’m at a freakin’ loss.

No country should be run be a Bronze Age, misogynist cult.  They may punish the soldier who fired the missile, but who gave the orders?

 

Dysfunctional leadership seems to be the norm in most countries these days.  

The shoot down WAS intentional. 

Do you seriously think they fired the missile as a "warning shot" ?

They saw a plane flying,  they shot a missile with the INTENTION of shooting down that plane. 

Therefore,  the act was intentional and resulted in what their intention was.... a shot down plane.

As to lying about it to start... their belief is that it is okay to lie to an Infidel about anything, because Infidels are of no consequence.

In regards to the people mentioning Iran getting Nuclear Weapons.... Iran has already said that it would not hesitate to shoot a Nuclear Missile into Saudi Arabia. 

16 minutes ago, Xavnel said:

The shoot down WAS intentional. 

Do you seriously think they fired the missile as a "warning shot" ?

They saw a plane flying,  they shot a missile with the INTENTION of shooting down that plane. 

Therefore,  the act was intentional and resulted in what their intention was.... a shot down plane.

As to lying about it to start... their belief is that it is okay to lie to an Infidel about anything, because Infidels are of no consequence.

In regards to the people mentioning Iran getting Nuclear Weapons.... Iran has already said that it would not hesitate to shoot a Nuclear Missile into Saudi Arabia. 

As many people here have already pointed out, the shootdown was intentional, but with the assumption that it was a hostile aircraft. The ground crew acted hastily and stupidly, but they did not deliberately murder civilians. As for “lying to infidels,” people in power regardless of their faith lie for tons of reasons, 15,000 lies and counting for instance coming out of the White House alone these past three years. Faced with irrefutable evidence, the Iranians stopped lying.

 

When Americans shot down an Iranian passenger airliner in 1988, the Pentagon initially denied any knowledge about it, and no one was ever called to account for that “intentional” shootdown.

3 hours ago, darksidedog said:

For the sake of the families I am happy that the Iranians have decided to come clean about the affair. It was only a matter of time before the truth was unequivocally proven and it could be denied no longer. I am sure Boeing are breathing a huge sigh of relief too.

 

Indeed. But let's not all forget that the Iranians claimed it was "scientifically impossible" to shoot the plane down initially.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Cory1848 said:

As many people here have already pointed out, the shootdown was intentional, but with the assumption that it was a hostile aircraft. The ground crew acted hastily and stupidly, but they did not deliberately murder civilians. As for “lying to infidels,” people in power regardless of their faith lie for tons of reasons, 15,000 lies and counting for instance coming out of the White House alone these past three years. Faced with irrefutable evidence, the Iranians stopped lying.

 

When Americans shot down an Iranian passenger airliner in 1988, the Pentagon initially denied any knowledge about it, and no one was ever called to account for that “intentional” shootdown.

 

And nothing you have written excuses the Iranians or denies the evil nature of the current regime that imposes its rule on Iranians.

1 hour ago, JAG said:

Whilst I rather agree that the assassination of Soleimani was the trigger of a series of events which led to this shooting down of a civilian airliner it cannot be blamed on Trump.

 

It is what happens, almost inevitably, when a military force is effectively beyond control of a civil government, and is driven by ideology and religious or political fanaticism. 

 

We shouldn't expect any meaningful action to be taken against the Revolutionary Guards. They answer only to the theocracy which rules Iran. To them, any Muslim victims are martyrs and any unbelievers of no account.

 

Totally agree.

 

Why Reuters and other media keep on referring to the IRGC as "elite" is bewildering. They are no more than a collection of religious zealots and fanatics prepared to bully, torture and murder their own citizens let alone foreigners and non Muslims. Nothing elite about them at all; other than they report directly to the guy in control.

8 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

And nothing you have written excuses the Iranians or denies the evil nature of the current regime that imposes its rule on Iranians.

I did not intend to excuse anyone -- I was just pointing out that the Iranians did not set out to kill civilians. As for the “evil nature” of the regime in Tehran, I try to be careful with words like that.

We only have their word that it was a mistake, an accident, unintentional. Folks their first words were "we didn't shoot it down". 

I am expecting that the next stage in this process; will be a public execution.

 

Some lowly figure, depicting the Shooter (though not  necessarily have to be him) will be summarily beheaded

- for all to see that they have balanced the books...

4 hours ago, robblok said:

Sure they fired the missiles with intention to bring the plane down however they did not know it was a passenger plane but thought it was something else. So it was unintentional in that sense and everyone with half a brain understands that they never wanted to shoot down a passenger airplane on purpose.

How do you know ever heard of double Jeopardy.

The system suspected of shooting down the airliner, is a short-range Tor-M1, used for local defense. The operators would not be front line soldiers and would most likely operate at a much lower skill level than those found in long-range air-defense units.

 

After a week of alerts and spending all that night staring at a radar scope in their tiny mobile cabin they would be on edge and very tired and expecting the worst to happen at any moment.

 

Probably poorly trained and not even told that any attack would first take out their radar eyes then death would immediately follow at Mach 2   arriving through the roof of their vehicle,  they would never even see the threat or know it was coming so of course they were jumpy. 

 

My guess when the low level radar blip turned toward them they panicked and pressed the button. 

 

No doubt the civilian aircraft was squawking its ID and they should have been able to pick that up and correctly identify it, they did not because the were probably not properly trained or their system did not have IFF civilian ID integrated into the system.

 

All very sad because even flightradar on their hand phone would have told them exactly what that aircraft was.

Deliberate murder, but they wont be admitting that and will kill another couple of their own after a trial where they will say what they are told, or their families get it.

A post has been removed Can we stay on topic please

1 hour ago, Cory1848 said:

I did not intend to excuse anyone -- I was just pointing out that the Iranians did not set out to kill civilians. As for the “evil nature” of the regime in Tehran, I try to be careful with words like that.

How do you possibly know that? Where you in with the person that  pushed the button?? 

2 hours ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

Maybe the russians can admit now they shot down Malaysian Air flight 17.

I don't understand why the Iranians let a passenger airplane leaving from Teheran while they waiting for incoming rockets,respectively shooting rockets to Iraq

Perhaps the government is pretty disfunctional? Certainly, the Revolutionary Guards who are the enthusiasts for firing rockets at "The Great Satan" are one gathers not exactly known for liaising and co-ordinating with other parts of the Iranian government, or with anyone for that matter, apart from the junta of mullahs.

5 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

It wouldn’t have happened if that mistake of a human being sitting in the white house  hadn’t assassinated QS.   Blame should be shared equally. Law of unintended consequences. 

And again: Trump derangement syndrome raises its head. Trump was 100% right in taking out a mass murdering terrorist that in fact Obama had placed on the kill list. He was in Iraq and had just caused the death of another American added to the list of over 600 American deaths he was responsible for along with the thousands of others in the region and around the world. Trump has done more to protect American lives as a line has been drawn and upheld by him that I wish my own country would follow: kill one of our countrymen (the term covers all sexes and ages) and there will be serious consequences. Well done Trump. 

4 minutes ago, Scot123 said:

And again: Trump derangement syndrome raises its head. Trump was 100% right in taking out a mass murdering terrorist that in fact Obama had placed on the kill list. He was in Iraq and had just caused the death of another American added to the list of over 600 American deaths he was responsible for along with the thousands of others in the region and around the world. Trump has done more to protect American lives as a line has been drawn and upheld by him that I wish my own country would follow: kill one of our countrymen (the term covers all sexes and ages) and there will be serious consequences. Well done Trump. 

Well said Scot. Duck your head tho, here come the Iranian extremist apologists 

31 minutes ago, claynlr said:

How do you possibly know that? Where you in with the person that  pushed the button?? 

Because there is no earthly reason why the Iranians would knowingly shoot down a passenger airliner filled with Iranians and Canadians (can you tell me why they might want to do that?), whereas there’s every reason in the world why a jittery launchpad operator, fully expecting an incoming US air attack, might misinterpret a blip on the radar screen and fire prematurely. How do you know the moon isn’t made of green cheese? Have you been there?