36 minutes ago, Benmart said:

The last sentence is unnecessary and dilutes the rest.

Why, it is very true.

55 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I think Russia wasn't mentioned because they're not involved in this, US is.

Putting the Georgia shootings on Russia's plate is too easy.

The plane was  shot down by two Russian Tor missiles and surely the Irani receive Russian training. Some of Russia's relaxed attitude towards indiscriminate bombing of civilians  (more recently in Syria) may also have rubbed off in Iran. The national guard and Quds don't have a good record. So yes, the Russians are involved at least peripherally. 

 

3 hours ago, Rimmer said:

No doubt the civilian aircraft was squawking its ID and they should have been able to pick that up and correctly identify it, they did not because the were probably not properly trained or their system did not have IFF civilian ID integrated into the system.

 

All very sad because even flightradar on their hand phone would have told them exactly what that aircraft was.

I'm hearing this a lot today - that back in 1988 when the US shot down an Iranian passenger plane the technology didn't exist to identify commercial aircraft. I'm no expert, but I assume that's why the two incidents shouldn't be compared? 

2 hours ago, Sujo said:

2 hours ago, claynlr said:

The Iranians have killed many of their own citizens, and I can promise you they don’t give one hoot about the lost Canadians. You can’t take a western “There’s no earthly reason why the Iranians would do that” attitude.

What a load of rubbish. To use your words, how can you possibly know iranians dont give one hoot about the lost canadians,or anyone else for that matter. Your extremist vitriol is showing.

Do you acknowledge that the Iranian regime are routinely shooting and killing their own citizens who they view as dissidents? Just curious to hear your thoughts on this. 

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

They were simply trying to get away with a lie.

  They were simply trying to get away with murdering civilians ..

 

24 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Do you acknowledge that the Iranian regime are routinely shooting and killing their own citizens who they view as dissidents? Just curious to hear your thoughts on this. 

In the recent protests, the Revolutionary Guards killed as many as 1,500 demonstrators in the streets. Since their founding in 1979, the IRGC has gone far beyond their original purpose and now controls vast swathes of the Iranian economy. For all those conspiracy nuts who go on about the Hillary Clinton/George Soros “deep state,” this is what an actual deep state looks like, and the Guards have too much at stake economically to allow street demonstrations to get out of hand.

 

Still, there’s no reason under the sun why the Guards or the regular military in Iran would knowingly shoot down a civilian airliner; it was clearly an error. These are two entirely different matters.

3 days deny, deny and lie over something that they already knew has happened by their own air defense. They tried hard to cover it up by keeping the black box.
If it was their own domestic flight, they would cover it up by lie and they wouldn't tell the truth to the people. 

1 hour ago, Cory1848 said:

In the recent protests, the Revolutionary Guards killed as many as 1,500 demonstrators in the streets. Since their founding in 1979, the IRGC has gone far beyond their original purpose and now controls vast swathes of the Iranian economy. For all those conspiracy nuts who go on about the Hillary Clinton/George Soros “deep state,” this is what an actual deep state looks like, and the Guards have too much at stake economically to allow street demonstrations to get out of hand.

 

Still, there’s no reason under the sun why the Guards or the regular military in Iran would knowingly shoot down a civilian airliner; it was clearly an error. These are two entirely different matters.

I agree with your last statement. But what I don't understand is how some people are aiming their vitriol at Trump, rather than considering the atrocities that the Iranian regime have been getting away with against it's own citizens, and citizens across the ME, in Iraq, Syria etc. 

 

The US were right to take out Soleimani. They should save the Trump hatred for when it's warranted. Even a stopped clock is right 2 times a day! 

Edited January 11, 20206 yr by CG1 Blue

9 hours ago, rabas said:

The blame should be squarely on Soleimani who spent his career assassinating and killing people at will. Hezbollah, financed by Iran, is in Soleimaini's responsibility portfolio. They were behind the horrific assassination of  Prime Minister of Lebanon Rafic Hariri. They used a 1-2 ton car bomb to make sure they got him, along with  22 other innocent bystanders. Just another work day for Soleimani.

Soleimani was dead at the time the Ukrainian aircraft was shot down.

4 hours ago, Sujo said:

Like the US that shot down a commercial flight?

Right

but this has happened 2 min from Iran's international airport. Where the air defense must know about flight schedule (if no radar available) since their site located too close to the airport (very sensitive location) and aircrafts fly lower altitude. If it is a restricted area then it should be no fly zone. 
It means that some missile operators suddenly woke up and saw a flying object in sky, right. 
educate yourself before getting in any argument, suggested.  

Edited January 11, 20206 yr by The Theory

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

I agree with your last statement. But what I don't understand is how some people are aiming their vitriol at Trump, rather than considering the atrocities that the Iranian regime have been getting away with against it's own citizens, and citizens across the ME, in Iraq, Syria etc. 

 

The US were right to take out Soleimani. They should save the Trump hatred for when it's warranted. Even a stopped clock is right 2 times a day! 

My post that you’re responding to said nothing at all about Trump. But now that you mention it, he made the Iran situation much worse from the very beginning of his administration by unilaterally pulling out of an agreement that was working, without a clue what to do next. Just a few days ago, given the opportunity to stand down from the brink, he did just that, and for that I give him full credit; it’s one of the few good decisions he’s made in three years. But bear in mind: “Trump hatred” is not some sort of derangement or disease; it’s a direct and logical response to his reprehensible policies, behavior, and calculated divisiveness.

59 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I agree with your last statement. But what I don't understand is how some people are aiming their vitriol at Trump, rather than considering the atrocities that the Iranian regime have been getting away with against it's own citizens, and citizens across the ME, in Iraq, Syria etc. 

 

The US were right to take out Soleimani. They should save the Trump hatred for when it's warranted. Even a stopped clock is right 2 times a day! 

 

    Stopped clock , you mean President Trump . 

     He needs to be woken up , and do what a man needs to do .

     Do not delay the inevitable … 

 

 

1 minute ago, elliss said:

 

    Stopped clock , you mean President Trump . 

     He needs to be woken up , and do what a man needs to do .

     Do not delay the inevitable … 

 

 

And that would be (?) If you mean, he should do what he needs to do and resign gracefully from the presidency, I'm with you on that.

41 minutes ago, Cory1848 said:

My post that you’re responding to said nothing at all about Trump. But now that you mention it, he made the Iran situation much worse from the very beginning of his administration by unilaterally pulling out of an agreement that was working, without a clue what to do next. Just a few days ago, given the opportunity to stand down from the brink, he did just that, and for that I give him full credit; it’s one of the few good decisions he’s made in three years. But bear in mind: “Trump hatred” is not some sort of derangement or disease; it’s a direct and logical response to his reprehensible policies, behavior, and calculated divisiveness.

You responded to my comment, which was in response to a Trump blamer. 

 

As I understand it, many felt the JCPOA was not watertight enough, particularly around site inspections. There were legitimate concerns about Iran cheating under the deal, given Iran’s past nuclear activities and attempts to build covert facilities. Concerns that they might attempt a 'sneakout' from the agreement using covert facilities and supply chains. 

 

Critics say Obama conceded on too many areas of the JCPOA in order to seal the deal, and secure his legacy as a peacemaker.

 

I don't know who is telling the truth, but I know for sure I don't trust a brutal theocratic regime that is willing to kill thousands of it's own citizens for protesting, and imprison hundreds of women for campaigning for freedom to remove the head scarf. 

 

 

 

Edited January 11, 20206 yr by CG1 Blue

44 minutes ago, elliss said:

 

    Stopped clock , you mean President Trump . 

     He needs to be woken up , and do what a man needs to do .

     Do not delay the inevitable … 

 

 

Why don't you call him and let him know what you think about him ????????

you sound very knowledgable.???? I'll vote you if you run for presidency this year. 

Edited January 11, 20206 yr by The Theory

1 hour ago, The Theory said:

Right

but this has happened 2 min from Iran's international airport. Where the air defense must know about flight schedule (if no radar available) since their site located too close to the airport (very sensitive location) and aircrafts fly lower altitude. If it is a restricted area then it should be no fly zone. 
It means that some missile operators suddenly woke up and saw a flying object in sky, right. 
educate yourself before getting in any argument, suggested.  

The issue is Supper Powers supplying some of the most sophisticated military hardware to be operated by conscripted radicalised hot heads...

5 hours ago, ThaiFelix said:

Have you never denied something only to discover later you were wrong and ADMIT it.

You mean like have I shot down a civilian aircraft and lied my head off until caught bang to rights?

49 minutes ago, Basil B said:

The issue is Supper Powers supplying some of the most sophisticated military hardware to be operated by conscripted radicalised hot heads...

So now we have someone who thinks army personnel aren't issued with instructions when to fire missiles. More attempts at whitewashing our Iranian Mullah friends.

3 hours ago, The Theory said:

3 days deny, deny and lie over something that they already knew has happened by their own air defense. They tried hard to cover it up by keeping the black box.
If it was their own domestic flight, they would cover it up by lie and they wouldn't tell the truth to the people. 

Exactly.

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

You mean like have I shot down a civilian aircraft and lied my head off until caught bang to rights?

They admitted it didnt they.  They took responsibility.  Very unlike some other country that has a reputation for denial even when the evidence/or lack of, is right in its face ie WMDs, imminent threats etc etc

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Exactly.

But they have admitted it.  If they were as you have been brainwashed to think they are, why would they end up admitting it?

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

So now we have someone who thinks army personnel aren't issued with instructions when to fire missiles. More attempts at whitewashing our Iranian Mullah friends.

Clearly they never understood the instructions, I find it hard to comprehend how you can mistake a cruse missile with a 737. 737 is a lot larger (about 80tons compared to the cruse missile typically 1.5tons), in the climb probably less than 300mph (500Km/h) where as a Cruse Missile probably 500mph (800km/h) 

2 hours ago, Basil B said:

Clearly they never understood the instructions, I find it hard to comprehend how you can mistake a cruse missile with a 737. 737 is a lot larger (about 80tons compared to the cruse missile typically 1.5tons), in the climb probably less than 300mph (500Km/h) where as a Cruse Missile probably 500mph (800km/h) 

Clearly phooey. PS It was night time.

3 hours ago, ThaiFelix said:

They admitted it didnt they.  They took responsibility.  Very unlike some other country that has a reputation for denial even when the evidence/or lack of, is right in its face ie WMDs, imminent threats etc etc

After lying their heads off, the evidence stuffed them. Next, hold on to black box and bulldoze the site.

Edited January 12, 20206 yr by SheungWan

10 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

As I understand it, many felt the JCPOA was not watertight enough, particularly around site inspections. There were legitimate concerns about Iran cheating under the deal, given Iran’s past nuclear activities and attempts to build covert facilities. Concerns that they might attempt a 'sneakout' from the agreement using covert facilities and supply chains. 

 

Critics say Obama conceded on too many areas of the JCPOA in order to seal the deal, and secure his legacy as a peacemaker.

 

I don't know who is telling the truth, but I know for sure I don't trust a brutal theocratic regime that is willing to kill thousands of it's own citizens for protesting, and imprison hundreds of women for campaigning for freedom to remove the head scarf.

Some criticisms of the Iran deal may have been valid, but it was a workable structure and at least to date had been effective. More importantly, it was signed not only by the US and Iran but by the EU, so by unilaterally reneging on the deal, the US basically abandoned its allies. Meanwhile, the Iranians can launch headlong back into a nuclear weapons program, with no structure in place to restrain them. As for new negotiations, why should the Iranians trust anything the US might have to offer? They have no incentive to even enter into negotiations. The Americans have proven to be unreliable negotiating partners.

 

You’re right, the regime in Iran is not trustworthy. But, with Trump in charge, Washington has proven to be even less so. Pulling out of that deal was a disastrous move.

Whether some like it or not the end is coming soon. It is just a matter of time. 

Arresting UK diplomats Won't help  ????????
 

Edited January 12, 20206 yr by The Theory

55 minutes ago, The Theory said:

Whether some like it or not the end is coming soon. It is just a matter of time. 

Arresting UK diplomats Won't help  ????????
 

 

I didn't see a thread on that news report here...

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51077897

 

Quote

 

The UK ambassador to Iran was arrested during anti-government protests in Tehran after officials admitted shooting down a passenger plane.

Rob Macaire was held for three hours, in what the UK described as a "flagrant violation of international law".

It is understood he was attending a vigil for those who died in the crash, which turned into a protest.

 

 

This part of the world is inhabited by trigger happy savages, back in the Iran-Iraq war, Iran AA gunners would frequently target their own aircraft and if the pilot bailed out they would shoot him too when his parachute opened. Even a few years ago an Iran F14 was taken out by a friendly missile battery.

Im surprised these events dont happen more often

 

 

 

 

NO big shocking revelation, this. Anyone with half a brain at least suspected this from the get-go. My half a brain certainly did. 

22 hours ago, stevenl said:

I think Russia wasn't mentioned because they're not involved in this, US is.

Putting the Georgia shootings on Russia's plate is too easy.

Apart from Russia selling the missile system to Iran, and presumably also helping with maintenance and spare parts?