Visa & Ins turning 70

[JWRC]

My current situation is that I am 69 years old and on a OA retirement visa, I am self funded as far as medical goes.

 

I realise that when the visa ext is due in June, that If I stay on the "OA" I will need to have medical Insurance. I'm not quite sure the difference between an "O" and an "OA" retirement visa although I think the "OA" is when you obtain it outside of Thailand and the "O" when you obtain it in Thailand, I'm sure someone will let me know about that.

 

I have thought about getting the required Insurance but I don't feel it's value for money, also I have some issues that wouldn't be covered for anyhow so it seems I would be paying out money for nothing. An option that I have read about here is to change to the "O" visa, but... I feel it is possible and indeed quite likely that this type will also have the medical requirement attached to it at some point. If that was the case, I would then be 70 years old and quite possibly due to age not able to get Insurance anyhow, I have been told it's hard to get after 70. What happens to people if they cannot get Insurance due to age? this must have happened to a few at least.

 

Also I suspect that premiums may increase after 70, Of course everything goes up over time, but do they double or anything ridiculous like that?

 

I am hoping for some normal sensible replies and will appreciate those. Thank you.

[jackdd]

48 minutes ago, JWRC said:

What happens to people if they cannot get Insurance due to age? this must have happened to a few at least.

Currently they have the option to change to a non-O visa. This is probably also what you will have to do.

 

If in the future Thailand should decide to also require health insurance for non-O visas, and you are not able to get a health insurance policy, then you would have to choose between tourist visas (and visa runs), the Thailand Elite visa, or to leave Thailand.

Edited January 13, 2020 by jackdd

[tonray]

22 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Currently they have the option to change to a non-O visa. This is probably also what you will have to do.

 

If in the future Thailand should decide to also require health insurance for non-O visas, and you are not able to get a health insurance policy, then you would have to choose between tourist visas (and visa runs), the Thailand Elite visa, or to leave Thailand.

He might save enough for the Elite if he's banking the same amount that he would have paid in premiums..but then again.. Still no coverage for major issues

[SEtonal]

2 hours ago, jackdd said:

Currently they have the option to change to a non-O visa. This is probably also what you will have to do.

 

If in the future Thailand should decide to also require health insurance for non-O visas, and you are not able to get a health insurance policy, then you would have to choose between tourist visas (and visa runs), the Thailand Elite visa, or to leave Thailand.

I believe it has been proposed that those who do not qualify for insurance would be allowed to self insure.

[Maestro]

7 hours ago, JWRC said:

...I'm not quite sure the difference between an "O" and an "OA" retirement visa although I think the "OA" is when you obtain it outside of Thailand and the "O" when you obtain it in Thailand, I'm sure someone will let me know about that...

 

To verify on what type of visa your current retirement extension is based, look at the latest visa in your passport and check the visa category.

 

If the visa is on an old passport, look at the first page of your current passport, where you will find an immigration stamp indicating the visa category.

[oldcpu]

wrt Health Insurance costs increasing as one goes older, I read the following (but I have no 1st hand experience on this increase as I have been on same international Health Insurance plan since age-51 (I am now 66)): 

 

Common age ranges are from 61 to 65, 66 to 70, 71 to 75, 76 to 80 and 81 to 85. Under this scenario, premiums would be the same for a 61 and 65 year old, only increasing at age 66 when you move into the next age bracket (some provider’s, however, will increase your rates every year). The most drastic price increases usually occur at ages 71, 76, 81 and 86.

[izod10]

Just go to India,Calcutta best,sure will find half the NHS staff on turn-a-round there........really good and cheap,spent lots of medical visits there   2 hours away   I just have accident ins here  5000 a year    medifee.com

[oldcpu]

20 hours ago, SEtonal said:

I believe it has been proposed that those who do not qualify for insurance would be allowed to self insure.

I read the Health Insurance for Type-OA (based on retirement) is nominally a 'trial'. 

 

My hope that is IF this Health Insurance is sometime in the future applied to other Visas, then the 'lessons learned' from the Type-OA (based on retirement) will be applied. Aspects I think would benefit Thailand and the Thai hospitals (and the Visa holders) would be to accept:

• superior International Health Insurance (including foreign government health insurance) not on the Thai approved list (coming up with a good verification method for Thai immigration by drawing on private Thai hospitals expertise) 
• self insurance for those who have the money to afford self insurance, using a TBD large amount deposited in a Bank fixed account, with conditions applied to allow Thai hospitals to access if the insured is invalid in a hospital.  This would benefit those who are at an age where private insurance is outrageously expensive, and having saved over the years they have sufficient money to afford self insurance.

At the moment thou, it reads that the Type-O Visa for retirement, or Type-OA (based on marriage with a Thai spouse) are acceptable workarounds wrt providing proof of Health Insurance.

[billsmart]

On 1/13/2020 at 1:54 PM, tonray said:

He might save enough for the Elite if he's banking the same amount that he would have paid in premiums..but then again.. Still no coverage for major issues

I have proposed the "self insure" option to over 40 insurance companies in the form of a method that is used in the USA. It's called a "surety bond in lieu of insurance." Without going into all the details, it would amount to your having to deposit THB440K in a year-long bond, like with an insurance company or a government agency, and then use that money to pay any health bills during the year. If it was with an insurance company, you could file claims and they would just pay them out of your money, not theirs. At the end of the year and to renew your bond, you'd have to replenish it back up to the THB440K. If you were to die, or at the end of the year not renew, the remainder in the account would be refunded to you or your beneficiary. Of course the insurance company or other agency would charge you a fees for all of this, but it should come out much less than paying an insurance policy if you are 70 or more. Also, this could be used by people of any age and with any kind of medical history.

So far, out of about 40 inquiries, I've only received two replies saying they'll look into it. I don't know if that's a real promise or they're just being polite.

So, if anyone else knows any agency that offers, or would consider offering, this kind of service, please let me know. I can send them an email explaining how it works and why its good for everyone concerned: Thailand (medical bills will be paid), the insurance company (they earn fees without any risk), and of course the Falang (can meet the Thai THB440K insurance requirements no matter what age or what their medical condition is as long as they have the money to post the bond).

[jimn]

1 hour ago, billsmart said:

I have proposed the "self insure" option to over 40 insurance companies in the form of a method that is used in the USA. It's called a "surety bond in lieu of insurance." Without going into all the details, it would amount to your having to deposit THB440K in a year-long bond, like with an insurance company or a government agency, and then use that money to pay any health bills during the year. If it was with an insurance company, you could file claims and they would just pay them out of your money, not theirs. At the end of the year and to renew your bond, you'd have to replenish it back up to the THB440K. If you were to die, or at the end of the year not renew, the remainder in the account would be refunded to you or your beneficiary. Of course the insurance company or other agency would charge you a fees for all of this, but it should come out much less than paying an insurance policy if you are 70 or more. Also, this could be used by people of any age and with any kind of medical history.

So far, out of about 40 inquiries, I've only received two replies saying they'll look into it. I don't know if that's a real promise or they're just being polite.

So, if anyone else knows any agency that offers, or would consider offering, this kind of service, please let me know. I can send them an email explaining how it works and why its good for everyone concerned: Thailand (medical bills will be paid), the insurance company (they earn fees without any risk), and of course the Falang (can meet the Thai THB440K insurance requirements no matter what age or what their medical condition is as long as they have the money to post the bond).

Ridiculus suggestion. They need to scrap the idea totally. I have totally adequate insurance from the UK for under £300, 440k is over £11,000. Your not so smart are you Bill. 

[BritManToo]

On 1/13/2020 at 12:42 PM, JWRC said:

realise that when the visa ext is due in June, that If I stay on the "OA" I will need to have medical Insurance. I'm not quite sure the difference between an "O" and an "OA" retirement visa although I think the "OA" is when you obtain it outside of Thailand and the "O" when you obtain it in Thailand, I'm sure someone will let me know about that.

Tourist VISA is 60 days (per entry).

O VISA is 90 days (per entry).

OA VISA is 1 year (per entry).

Edited January 14, 2020 by BritManToo

[Martyp]

Since you need to do something by June there is no point in speculating about the future of the O visa. Just get it. There is a bit of effort, costs and a process but it is probably worth it. I have seen some posts by people who are disabled and for which the travel involved in a consideration. If you want to delay the decision for an O visa for a year then contact Pacific Cross to discuss insurance options. 

Edited January 14, 2020 by Martyp

[LarryLEB]

Hi, JWRC

 

I have sent you a personal message that I hope will be of some help!

 

Regards,

                                   -----Larry-----

Edited January 14, 2020 by LarryLEB

[JetsetBkk]

1 hour ago, billsmart said:

I have proposed the "self insure" option to over 40 insurance companies in the form of a method that is used in the USA. It's called a "surety bond in lieu of insurance." <snip>

This is similar to what the owner/manager of Bangkok Insurance Brokers in Phuket tried. No interest from the insurance companies he tried.

[JetsetBkk]

45 minutes ago, jimn said:

Ridiculus suggestion. They need to scrap the idea totally. I have totally adequate insurance from the UK for under £300, 440k is over £11,000. Your not so smart are you Bill. 

Your £300 is spent. Gone. Every year.

His 440k baht would be deposited. Not spent. Not gone.

[oldcpu]

2 hours ago, billsmart said:

I have proposed the "self insure" option to over 40 insurance companies in the form of a method that is used in the USA. It's called a "surety bond in lieu of insurance." Without going into all the details, it would amount to your having to deposit THB440K in a year-long bond, like with an insurance company or a government agency, and then use that money to pay any health bills during the year. If it was with an insurance company, you could file claims and they would just pay them out of your money, not theirs. At the end of the year and to renew your bond, you'd have to replenish it back up to the THB440K. If you were to die, or at the end of the year not renew, the remainder in the account would be refunded to you or your beneficiary. Of course the insurance company or other agency would charge you a fees for all of this, but it should come out much less than paying an insurance policy if you are 70 or more. Also, this could be used by people of any age and with any kind of medical history.

I like this idea/method, for those who don't already have good health insurance, and need to find a form of Insurance to satisfy Thailand's concerns, where some may find the Insurance company's on the Thai insurance list are not appropriate (either due to monthly cost, or due to a failure to sufficiently cover one or a refusal to cover one). 

 

I did not know it existed in the USA.

 

Presumably the Insurance company has a TBD managerial fee that it charges its clients (every year) who adopt this plan?

 

Hopefully such could be considered as an alternative in a future Thailand update (???) to their present acceptable Health Insurance list.

Edited January 14, 2020 by oldcpu

[jimn]

6 minutes ago, JetsetBkk said:

Your £300 is spent. Gone. Every year.

His 440k baht would be deposited. Not spent. Not gone.

Until he needs to dip into it and then its gone.

[Sheryl]

On 1/13/2020 at 4:27 PM, SEtonal said:

I believe it has been proposed that those who do not qualify for insurance would be allowed to self insure.

 

There is no allowance  for that  in the Police Order.

 

If you have an OA visa and cannot get insurance, due to age or pre-exisitng conditions, you cannot extend. You would have to leave and get another visa type, or leave altogether.

 

You can get an idea of premium costs at different ages here:

 

 Note that with Pacific Cross considerable reduction in premiums can be gotten by taking a deductible. Of course, you should be sure you can afford to self pay the deductible amount.

 

At age 70 there are only a few options, and by 75 there will be none, that meet Imm requirements.

 

Changing to an O visa would remove the requirement at least for now.  What will happen in future is anyone's guess.

[Caine]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Tourist VISA is 60 days (per entry).

O VISA is 90 days (per entry).

OA VISA is 1 year (per en

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by Caine
Wrong information

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, Caine said:

Wrong single entry tourist visa is 30 days.

A single entry tourist allows a 60 day entry that can be extended for 30 days.

Perhaps you are thinking of a 30 day visa exempt entry.

[emptypockets]

4 hours ago, LarryLEB said:

Hi, JWRC

 

I have sent you a personal message that I hope will be of some help!

 

Regards,

                                   -----Larry-----

Why not share with all of us?

Many members will be interested.

[jackdd]

6 hours ago, billsmart said:

Of course the insurance company or other agency would charge you a fees for all of this, but it should come out much less than paying an insurance policy if you are 70 or more.

If they are going to make less money this way, why should they implement it?

[xtrnuno41]

On 1/13/2020 at 7:30 AM, jackdd said:

Currently they have the option to change to a non-O visa. This is probably also what you will have to do.

 

If in the future Thailand should decide to also require health insurance for non-O visas, and you are not able to get a health insurance policy, then you would have to choose between tourist visas (and visa runs), the Thailand Elite visa, or to leave Thailand.

WIth the Thai elite visa, there is a section 11 in it, saying:

If benefits are in contradiction with the Thai law, benefits will be erased.

 

Meaning, for instance, if Thai government makes it a law for all their visa's to have health insurance, so also the Thai elite should LOOSE the benefit of not having a health insurance and again you pay. 

Nothing is for sure with all visa"s , even the Elite 

[SEtonal]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

There is no allowance  for that  in the Police Order.

 

I did not say it was in the police order.  I said it was a proposal. A proposal is a suggestion.

[JWRC]

I appreciate all the replies, thank you.

[billsmart]

10 hours ago, jackdd said:

If they are going to make less money this way, why should they implement it?

I understand that rationale, but they could limit this service to people who are over the age they would insure on a regular policy, like say over 75, and it could also include people with pre-existing medical conditions that they would not now insure. So, it actually expands their prospective customer base.

[billsmart]

15 hours ago, jimn said:

Ridiculus suggestion. They need to scrap the idea totally. I have totally adequate insurance from the UK for under £300, 440k is over £11,000. Your not so smart are you Bill. 

I have been Smart for 74 years now ???? , am in good health, but most insurance companies won't even consider giving me a policy at my age. ???? Those that do quote THB80K to THB100K per year. This type of service could also be offered to other "non-insurables" like those with a pre-existing medical condition ???? .

IMO, this type of program would not be a ridiculous proposition for me or many other falangs who are older or have medical problems. ????

[Max69xl]

On 1/13/2020 at 4:27 PM, SEtonal said:

I believe it has been proposed that those who do not qualify for insurance would be allowed to self insure.

Where have you read that? 

[Momofarang]

18 hours ago, billsmart said:

I have proposed the "self insure" option to over 40 insurance companies in the form of a method that is used in the USA. It's called a "surety bond in lieu of insurance." Without going into all the details, it would amount to your having to deposit THB440K in a year-long bond, like with an insurance company or a government agency, and then use that money to pay any health bills during the year. If it was with an insurance company, you could file claims and they would just pay them out of your money, not theirs. At the end of the year and to renew your bond, you'd have to replenish it back up to the THB440K. If you were to die, or at the end of the year not renew, the remainder in the account would be refunded to you or your beneficiary. Of course the insurance company or other agency would charge you a fees for all of this, but it should come out much less than paying an insurance policy if you are 70 or more. Also, this could be used by people of any age and with any kind of medical history.

So far, out of about 40 inquiries, I've only received two replies saying they'll look into it. I don't know if that's a real promise or they're just being polite.

So, if anyone else knows any agency that offers, or would consider offering, this kind of service, please let me know. I can send them an email explaining how it works and why its good for everyone concerned: Thailand (medical bills will be paid), the insurance company (they earn fees without any risk), and of course the Falang (can meet the Thai THB440K insurance requirements no matter what age or what their medical condition is as long as they have the money to post the bond).

Your idea is smart, Bill. But, are you sure that the 40/400 limit is yearly or yearly per Illness?

[tinca tinca]

a frend of mine (71) has had to pay over 3100 G B P for his health insurance...!!