German man found dead at home in Pattaya

[Enki]

40 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Doesn't the EU know that an EU passport holder is outside of the EU? 

No. Why/how would they?

[Leaver]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Have you lived in fear of your own government all your life?

Have you ever known your government to have the slightest competence in tracking terrorists and/or criminals (let alone an old guy on holiday)?

Well, as a white, middle aged, single, male, I am the most discriminated against by my Government, and their easiest target, so very easy for them to tax me and / or stop a pension.  

 

Would you disagree?

[Enki]

27 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I know what you are getting at, but I can't see how an EU citizen, leaving the EU from any country inside the EU, does not have any departure data held anywhere that they have left the EU.

The EU is not a surveillance state. The only one who *knows* you left the EU is the airline you used to do it. And if you go by car, in theory the officer at the checkpoint ... and that would be the _immigration_check_point_ of the other country.

Obviously if you are sought by interpol, they will sent letters to banks and credit card companies, and probably airlines etc. and find your trace.

But there is no database about were people are: that would be illegal. 

[Leaver]

3 minutes ago, Enki said:

No. Why/how would they?

It's called a passport for a reason.  ????

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Well, as a white, middle aged, single, male, I am the most discriminated against by my Government, and their easiest target, so very easy for them to tax me and / or stop a pension.  

 

Would you disagree?

Like the German in the OP,

I'm too old and sick to worry about the future.

I've enough already in the bank to last another 5 years, I suspect I won't last that long.

[Enki]

24 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Seriously, without doing something illegal, do you really think there is no paper trail of the money leading back to you in Thailand?

There is a paper trail, but the government, police, or what ever you want to call it: DOES NOT HAVE IT! To get it they need a court verdict. If someone comes to my bank and asks: can you give me the last 10 transactions of Enki, and tell me if he did transfers into foreign countries: they call the police!! I really wonder at what those silly questions aim.

[Leaver]

1 minute ago, Enki said:

The EU is not a surveillance state. The only one who *knows* you left the EU is the airline you used to do it. And if you go by car, in theory the officer at the checkpoint ... and that would be the _immigration_check_point_ of the other country.

Obviously if you are sought by interpol, they will sent letters to banks and credit card companies, and probably airlines etc. and find your trace.

But there is no database about were people are: that would be illegal. 

You have to present you passport for departure.  Are you suggesting that data is maintained NOWHERE?  

[Enki]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

4 minutes ago, Enki said:

 

You have to present you passport for departure.  Are you suggesting that data is maintained NOWHERE?

No, I presented a passport to board a plane. No one knows if I take a plane from Berlin to Palma de Mallorca, or to Morocco, or to Abu Dabi, or to BKK.

And no: the data is not kept. It is ILLEGAL!

[Leaver]

10 minutes ago, Enki said:

There is a paper trail, but the government, police, or what ever you want to call it: DOES NOT HAVE IT! To get it they need a court verdict. If someone comes to my bank and asks: can you give me the last 10 transactions of Enki, and tell me if he did transfers into foreign countries: they call the police!! I really wonder at what those silly questions aim.

And if Enki's family hasn't heard from him, from Thailand, for quite sometime, they may go to the police.  The police file a missing persons report.  That report now gets them a warrant to "search" Enki's bank account. (but the bank just hands over everything anyway)

 

The police find Enki's pension is being withdrawn from an ATM in a village in Issan.

 

They contact Interpol, who contact Thai police.  Thai police check Enki's TM30.  They send the local police around where Enki's Thai partner says, "He die one year ago, but his Government good.  Still send money for take care me."  ????

 

Enki's pension stops soon after and Enki's Thai partner is sad, and so is his family back in his home country.   ????

 

Of course, the above never happens.  ????

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Leaver

[Enki]

7 minutes ago, Leaver said:

And if Enki's family hasn't heard from him, from Thailand, for quite sometime, they may go to the police.  The police file a missing persons report.  That report now gets them a warrant to "search" Enki's bank account. (but the bank just hands over everything anyway)

 

The police find Enki's pension is being withdrawn from an ATM in a village in Issan.

 

They contact Interpol, who contact Thai police.  Thai police check Enki's TM30.  They send the local police around where Enki's Thai partner says, "He die one year ago, but his Government good.  Still send money for take care me."  ????

 

Enki's pension stops soon after and Enki's Thai partner is sad, and so is his family back in his home country.   ????

 

Of course, the above never happens.  ????

 

The above is exactly what happens, you miss the simple point: court verdict!! So no: the government or "the police" does not know where I am just because I flashed a passport at an airport.

 

And usually they know "anyway" where you are, because you get your next passport when the recent one expires at the embassy ????

 

And: they would not contact interpol as they only search for criminals, and not missed persons that simply can be narrowed down by a bank or CC company inquiry ...

 

You implied several times "They Know" ... there are no "Theys". Most EU countries not even have legislation to register where you live ... 

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Enki

[BritManToo]

15 minutes ago, Leaver said:

And if Enki's family hasn't heard from him, from Thailand, for quite sometime, they may go to the police.  The police file a missing persons report.  That report now gets them a warrant to "search" Enki's bank account. (but the bank just hands over everything anyway)

The police find Enki's pension is being withdrawn from an ATM in a village in Issan.

They contact Interpol, who contact Thai police.  Thai police check Enki's TM30.

Don't know about Enki but,

Haven't had any contact with my former UK family in the past 10 years (they don't know where I went).

The police were looking for me then, and didn't find me (my former family and friends didn't know where I went).

My UK bank has no payments to anyone outside the Uk (they would need a court order from a second UK bank to discover that).

When I first came to Thailand (first 5 years) I had a second Thai bank as a cut out, to my second UK bank, transfer money to 2nd UK bank, transfer from 2nd UK to 1st Thai bank, take cash out of 1st Thai bank and walk it to 2nd Thai bank.

I've never done a TM30, Thai immigration have no idea where I live.

 

I have no social media, or email accounts in my name.

When I needed a new passport, I flew back to the UK, and did it while I waited so they couldn't photocopy my old passport.

Edited January 20, 2020 by BritManToo

[Leaver]

22 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Haven't had any contact with my former UK family in the past 10 years.

The police were looking for me then, and didn't find me.

My UK bank has no payments to anyone outside the Uk (they would need a court order from a second UK bank to discover that).

When I first came to Thailand (first 5 years) I had a second bank as a cut out, transfer money to first Thai bank, take cash out and walk it to a second Thai bank.

I've never done a TM30, Thai immigration have no idea where I live.

I know how to live "off the grid."  The magnitude of a man hunt is dependent on the crime. if your crime was big enough, court orders and warrants are no problem, for any bank account, or anyone, associated with you.   

 

As some stage, particularly as a foreigner in Thailand, living "of the grid" breaches a law, even if it's overstay.  There are many old foreigners "off the grid" in little villages in Issan. 

 

The TM30 debate is not conclusive as to who breaches the law, the foreigner, or the landlord, but that discussion has been debated in other threads. 

 

A State Pension is not perpetual.  At some stage, the data base flags that a recipient is 150 years old, for example.  ????

 

In many cases, the surviving Thai partner can only continue to withdraw money for the validity of the ATM card, which can be another 2 or 3 years of use. This seems to be the common end to the gravy train. 

 

A lot of this is dependent on a foreigner burning all ties with friends and family back home, which a lot do. 

 

I also have a burner bank account, but not for the reasons you do.  ????

 

The use of a third party to facilitate transfers is handy for being "off the grid" but I don't require this service.  

 

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Leaver

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, Leaver said:

In many cases, the surviving Thai partner can only continue to withdraw money for the validity of the ATM card, which can be another 2 or 3 years of use. This seems to be the common end to the gravy train. 

I don't have a partner, my gf is rented, don't care what happens to her after I'm gone.

My 8yo son will be looked after by his 22yo sister.

Edited January 20, 2020 by BritManToo

[Enki]

34 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I have no social media, or email accounts in my name.

I just checked. There is indeed no facebook account in your name, what a shame!

So I think you are quite save and can continue to enlighten us with your insights ????

[Leaver]

28 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I don't have a partner, my gf is rented, don't care what happens to her after I'm gone.

My 8yo son will be looked after by his 22yo sister.

I wasn't questioning your specific circumstances.

 

I am very much talking in general, particularly with the older guys requiring a lot of care, and those up in Issan that are living the jungle life.  ????

[Leaver]

23 minutes ago, Enki said:

I just checked. There is indeed no facebook account in your name, what a shame!

So I think you are quite save and can continue to enlighten us with your insights ????

I hope he is posting whilst using Tor, but that's not even secure anymore.  ????

[Leaver]

2 hours ago, Enki said:

The above is exactly what happens, you miss the simple point: court verdict!! So no: the government or "the police" does not know where I am just because I flashed a passport at an airport.

 

And usually they know "anyway" where you are, because you get your next passport when the recent one expires at the embassy ????

 

And: they would not contact interpol as they only search for criminals, and not missed persons that simply can be narrowed down by a bank or CC company inquiry ...

 

You implied several times "They Know" ... there are no "Theys". Most EU countries not even have legislation to register where you live ... 

 

They do contact Interpol. 

 

Do you think your local police station in your home town makes a phone call to Thai Police HQ in Bangkok and speaks Thai to them?  ???? There re official channels when requesting the co-operation of a foreign law enforcement agency.

 

It's a missing person investigation, it's not a prosecution.  There is a difference between a verdict and a search warrant.  Once they get hold of your bank / credit card transactions, they will see you bought an air ticket to another country, but sure, you could have paid cash to a travel agent.

 

You still need to get to that money from another country, so when transfers to a Thai bank or withdrawals from ATM's in Thailand appear, they contact Interpol, who contact Thai police, so they make inquiries.  

 

Unless you leave your whole life behind, burning passports, ATM cards etc, and cease contact with family, and start a new life, working for cash, you leave a paper trail.  Thailand is not the easiest country to start a new life in because they keep a close eye on foreigners here, particularly those working, despite there being many.

 

Why do you think cryptocurrencies are a threat to law enforcement and national security?  Many times agencies follow the money that leads them to the  criminal.  You can't follow a crypto. 

 

I am talking about an EU citizen living OUTSIDE the EU.  Not a Brit hiding out in Spain, or a French hiding out in Germany.

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Leaver

[garyk]

7 hours ago, BritManToo said:

So you just don't tell them you retired abroad.

I certainly haven't retired abroad, I'm just here on holiday for a few weeks.

My bank is in the UK, they don't have any foreign address for me.

I've never transferred money from a bank in the UK to outside the UK.

Same here. I am from the USA and lived in Thailand for 10 years. Easy as pie. 

[jastheace]

it is a shame the guy died alone, and not discovered for a few days. this does happen in the west as well, no immediate family, lost contact, childless, wife passed away, and just living day to day alone, or just a few 'drinking buddies' to chat to now and then. just hope he enjoyed his later years here with some occassional company rather than sat in front of a television and 1 bar electric fire with nothing. i'm sure he had no regrets. 

[jacko45k]

12 hours ago, cyril sneer said:

more often than not i'd expect

No one? And what happens to the body in this case, buried in the garden? All too often it is a bad smell that gets these cases found. 

[Leaver]

4 hours ago, garyk said:

Same here. I am from the USA and lived in Thailand for 10 years. Easy as pie. 

Where did you get your current passport from?

[overherebc]

On 1/19/2020 at 4:16 PM, Don Mega said:

Amazing Thailand, whats the chances of an old person dieing !!

 

Agree. That's why I refuse to go into a hospital. I've heard old sick people die in them as well.

[overherebc]

4 hours ago, jastheace said:

it is a shame the guy died alone, and not discovered for a few days. this does happen in the west as well, no immediate family, lost contact, childless, wife passed away, and just living day to day alone, or just a few 'drinking buddies' to chat to now and then. just hope he enjoyed his later years here with some occassional company rather than sat in front of a television and 1 bar electric fire with nothing. i'm sure he had no regrets. 

Not everybody can be a Harry Brown.  2009 movie Micheal Caine.

[Traubert]

15 hours ago, Leaver said:

Well, as a white, middle aged, single, male, I am the most discriminated against by my Government, and their easiest target, so very easy for them to tax me and / or stop a pension.  

 

Would you disagree?

Not at all, I would emphatically agree.

 

Its why I don't live there anymore.

[Leaver]

10 minutes ago, Traubert said:

Not at all, I would emphatically agree.

 

Its why I don't live there anymore.

I'm the same, but unfortunately, most of my money generating assets still do, and western Governments don't like income being earned in their country, but being spent in another country's economy.   ????

[ThaiBunny]

3 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I'm the same, but unfortunately, most of my money generating assets still do, and western Governments don't like income being earned in their country, but being spent in another country's economy.   ????

That seems to strike at the very heart of the global marketplace that relies in imports and exports

[Traubert]

3 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I'm the same, but unfortunately, most of my money generating assets still do, and western Governments don't like income being earned in their country, but being spent in another country's economy.   ????

If it's UK (and it sounds familiar) I moved the lot to the Isle of Man. It's true what you say, the last step in the process was getting  HMRC to sign it off, thus regretfully admitting they had squeezed me for every penny they could.

[balo]

On 1/19/2020 at 2:54 PM, dutchinlondon said:

People die when they're old.  That's the way life works

77 is not very old, most people living a healthy lifestyle today should have no problems to reach 80 or 90 year if they avoid cancer and other serious diseases. 

 

Edited January 21, 2020 by balo