Denied entry- Second attempt coming up

[NanLaew]

8 hours ago, peixotorms said:

... The thing I hate most about thailand is that we are always playing lottery with multiple entries, so never again for me.

Who is 'we'?

 

The way I understand it, if you apply for the visa that you are qualified to apply for, you will invariably be granted that visa whereupon any semblance of 'playing lottery' with Thai immigration evaporates.

[SteveK]

1 minute ago, NanLaew said:

Who is 'we'?

 

The way I understand it, if you apply for the visa that you are qualified to apply for, you will invariably be granted that visa whereupon any semblance of 'playing lottery' with Thai immigration evaporates.

You can apply for, and obtain a visa in your home country, but still be denied entry to Thailand on the grounds of some petty rubbish.

 

Don't you read this forum at all?

[NanLaew]

33 minutes ago, SteveK said:

36 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Who is 'we'?

 

The way I understand it, if you apply for the visa that you are qualified to apply for, you will invariably be granted that visa whereupon any semblance of 'playing lottery' with Thai immigration evaporates.

You can apply for, and obtain a visa in your home country, but still be denied entry to Thailand on the grounds of some petty rubbish.

 

Don't you read this forum at all?

Of course entry isn't a given but that applies for pretty much all countries where the IO 'at the gate' has the last say on whether you get allowed in to play hide the sausage with the current "mine's different" girlfriend. I do read the forum and the assessment of being subjected to "petty rubbish" is by far being expressed by people like the OP with long histories of visa-less entry, extensions, border-hopping and otherwise dodging the bullet.

 

The point I was making was with the member who stated the collective 'we' as if we ALL have constant battles with Immigration when the reality is only a lazy (like the OP), besotted (like the OP) and sometimes noisome minority who prefer to skate around the visa issue then get rowdy when they are (invariably) bailed up by the (invariably) stroppy female IO at (invariably) Don Meuang. If one doesn't care to work towards mitigating being harrassed by Thai immigration, then one deserves what one gets.

 

Apart from a detailed insight as to how U-Tapao airport immigration processes what would otherwise be an easy reject at other airports, all that the OP has managed to do is push that envelope once again. The downside, as he and more of his ilk test this 'back door' at U-Tapao, will inevitably be more oversight of everyone arriving at U-Tapao. More oversight at U-Tapao means that more people, including those with proper visas and better bona fides than a Thai hottie girlfriend will be subject to greater scrutiny which slows everyone's immigration 'experience'. Thanks!

 

The OP reckons this is his last time in the 'last chance saloon' of Thai immigration so here's hoping he does go home next time, gets a new passport and the appropriate visa for whatever his plans are. I hope he doesn't delude himself to try just one more small overstay or just one more land border shuffle until the weather's better in Norway. The fact is that all this previous dicking about is ALREADY in the Thai immigration database and will preclude any other similar subterfuges regardless of having the nice new passport with the appropriate visa... which I think was the main thrust of your rejoinder anyway.

Edited January 20, 2020 by NanLaew

[mockingbird]

It amazes me how some people get so up in arms about people attempting to enter Thailand regularly on tourist visa's/visa exemptions.

These people talk about scamming the system, loopholes etc....utter nonsense.

 

Anybody is perfectly entitled to try to enter Thailand legally, and Thai immigration officers are perfectly entitled to refuse entry if they see fit. There's no scams, no loopholes...all your entries,length of stays,overstays, are fully available for viewing to every IO. If they decide to let you in, good. If they don't, that's their prerogative.

[FritsSikkink]

15 hours ago, SteveK said:

You can apply for, and obtain a visa in your home country, but still be denied entry to Thailand on the grounds of some petty rubbish.

 

Don't you read this forum at all?

Most of the times this involves people who live here on tourist visas. 

[DaveK68]

Just going to leave this here and note that it doesn't give a time limit. lol

tourist

noun [ C ]

UK  /ˈtʊə.rɪst/ /ˈtɔː.rɪst/ US  /ˈtʊr.ɪst/

someone who visits a place for pleasure and interest, usually while on holiday:

 

P.S. The pecksniffian glory, though.
 

[NanLaew]

39 minutes ago, DaveK68 said:

Just going to leave this here and note that it doesn't give a time limit. lol

tourist

noun [ C ]

UK  /ˈtʊə.rɪst/ /ˈtɔː.rɪst/ US  /ˈtʊr.ɪst/

someone who visits a place for pleasure and interest, usually while on holiday:

 

P.S. The pecksniffian glory, though.
 

And you copy/pasted this from what Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs or Royal Thai Immigration Police website exactly?

[Traubert]

Pleased you made it.

 

Wouldn't recommend trying similar again.

[DaveK68]

32 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

And you copy/pasted this from what Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs or Royal Thai Immigration Police website exactly?

In so far as I can find, there is no official Thai immigration definition of tourism. Hence, I pulled that one from a dictionary. 

However, if one reads the actual Thai Embassy requirements for tourist visas, it states quite often that tourists must have appropriate means for living in Thailand so as not to become a burden to the State.


(2) Having no appropriate means of living following entry into the Kingdom.

Thai officials seem to wish for people to have a means of living in Thailand.

 

Edited January 21, 2020 by DaveK68

[DaveK68]

4 hours ago, mockingbird said:

It amazes me how some people get so up in arms about people attempting to enter Thailand regularly on tourist visa's/visa exemptions.

These people talk about scamming the system, loopholes etc....utter nonsense.

I agree 100%.

There's no need for the condescension or the insults. This is merely people communicating. If one cannot communicate civilly, perhaps one should stay in one's cave.

I came here for information as did the OP. Some, apparently, log on to provide snark and insult. The fellow above provided nothing of value with his demeaning, pharisaic pronunciation AND probably scared off a few hundred folks who might otherwise have made valuable members to the forum.

I was truly apprehensive about coming to this forum as it is famous for such. I hoped for information. Thanks to the better angels of this forums nature, I received such from the good folks of TV.

To be so openly hostile to folks about whom one knows nothing strikes me as indecent. But these folks always rear their ugly, self righteous heads in the chaos of the ether.

Edited January 21, 2020 by DaveK68

[DaveK68]

3 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Most of the times this involves people who live here on tourist visas. 

Except there is nothing that states one cannot "live here" on a tourist visa.

It actually states on embassy websites that one must have enough funds to live in Thailand and not become a burden to the State.

Take my case.

I came to Thailand for 6 to 8 months. I figured I'd have a break or two inbetween and would at those times obtain a new tourist visa. According to everything that I read, this is fine. There nothing that says I can't do this.

I read about the non-imm visas and none of those seemed to fit my purpose.

I figured that two SETVs with breaks in between would be cool and I'd be off to ride the sunset in Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam for the break between them.

Thailand begged to differ. 

The problem is that no Thai official websites made me believe that this would be frowned upon.

Couple that with the fact that I know guys who do monthly visa runs over long periods of time and have yet to run into issues and you've got me here scratching my head.

Perhaps, I just hit the embassy on a bad day.

There is also nothing that states that I should not go to the same embassy for consecutive visas. 

Give me a rule book and I'll follow it. I was in the Army for over a decade. I can follow me some rules.

A challenge to dealing with Thailand [now] is that there are these unwritten rules that seem to be wholly subjective to whomever is holding the stamps and stickers at the moment one's request slides across their desks.

 

[SteveK]

4 hours ago, DaveK68 said:

Give me a rule book and I'll follow it. I was in the Army for over a decade. I can follow me some rules.

You are forgetting that this is a third-world country.

 

If you are super rich or have status, in general you can ignore the rules. In Thailand the right sized brown envelope can clear you of almost any wrong doing.

 

For everyone else, the rules are deliberately vague. The purpose of this is that the official implementing said rules can interpret them however they want to cause upset, annoyance or distress in the hope of extracting tea money. Or at the very least cause frustration to someone they don't like the look of.

 

If the rules were super clear, officials couldn't bend them to annoy people, hence they would never get any "tips".

 

That's how it works here, in my opinion based on my observations.

Edited January 21, 2020 by SteveK

[acenase]

The fact you had a previous overstay had NO bearing at all on being denied entry. It was because you did not have the 3 proofs they ask for...

Even IF you have a valid visa for thailand in your passport IF you are asked by immigrations you need to show (1) proof of funds, (2) onward travel and (3) accomodation. 
Very rarely will the immigration officers void those requirements (and usually that's only for people on long-stay type visas or extensions).

A person denied entry is held at IDC at the airport he flew in at until he works out with his carrier where he will go.

The immigration officers do NOT care in the least where you go to, all they tell you is that you can't enter thailand. It is between you and your air carrier where you go back to. Some let you fly back to where you came from, some let you fly anywhere they fly to and some make you go back to the country your passport is from. 

[jacko45k]

19 hours ago, mockingbird said:

It amazes me how some people get so up in arms about people attempting to enter Thailand regularly on tourist visa's/visa exemptions.

I believe they get more distraught when the people making these attempts, are turned away and get on here complaining and crying unfair, and how they are a benefit to Thailand. They seem unwilling to accept the prerogative you mentioned of the IO and cry injustice most foul.

Edited January 22, 2020 by jacko45k

[DaveK68]

13 hours ago, SteveK said:

You are forgetting that this is a third-world country.

 

If you are super rich or have status, in general you can ignore the rules. In Thailand the right sized brown envelope can clear you of almost any wrong doing.

 

For everyone else, the rules are deliberately vague. The purpose of this is that the official implementing said rules can interpret them however they want to cause upset, annoyance or distress in the hope of extracting tea money. Or at the very least cause frustration to someone they don't like the look of.

 

If the rules were super clear, officials couldn't bend them to annoy people, hence they would never get any "tips".

 

That's how it works here, in my opinion based on my observations.

I completely agree.

That's why I don't get the condescending "Oh...if you would only follow the rules...all would be well, my dear wayward children" attitude from some folks.  lol

[DaveK68]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I believe they get more distraught when the people making these attempts, are turned away and get on here complaining and crying unfair, and how they are a benefit to Thailand. They seem unwilling to accept the prerogative you mentioned of the IO and cry injustice most foul.

The OP did not do that. There was no real reason for the condescension or insults. Other than it being the person's nature to be so which is probably the case here.

I do believe that Thailand is motivated by money, though. In that sense, each tourist is a benefit to their economy and esp. the tourist economy.  European tourists spend a third more per trip per person than your average Chinese tourist. The Thai government is learning this now. European tourism to Thailand has been down for various reasons. One is the hassles at the borders and airports. No other country in SEAsia requires all of these "proofs" to obtain a visa. People want to travel and enjoy themselves. No one wants to be hassled. It doesn't matter the reason. Thailand is getting a reputation that it probably doesn't want. Hell, to get into Laos and Cambodia, one needs a passport, 30ish bucks and a pulse.

While their numbers have gone up overall due to the Chinese, the receipts have gone down. By as much as 40%, I've read in some sources. I believe that is what is at the heart of this. Thailand was making a big push for Chinese tourists. Now that they've had them, there may be a bit of buyer's remorse.  lol Look for the "rules" to re-loosen over the next couple of years because of this...as the Thai government figures out where the butter for their tourism bread originates.

 

Edited January 22, 2020 by DaveK68

[Traubert]

38 minutes ago, DaveK68 said:

 European tourists spend a third more per trip per person than your average Chinese tourist.

 

Even if that were true, which it isn't, the Chinese numbers dwarf the Europeans. Roughly 10m to 2m per annum.

 

There are qualified analyses all over TVF but the tendency to howl 'false' at anything even mildly positive about tourism pushes them into the background.