Widespread sugarcane burning continues uninterrupted by local authorities

[URMySunshine]

22 minutes ago, thaibook said:

Has anybody on TV heard of irony?

I normally get irony but it was a long day....and it was well done.

[Saint Nick]

Dear Thai- citizens and expats

just shut up about the bad air!

Here...have a mask and please stay inside!

Keep your children out of school - not that they learn much there, anyways!

And please...Chinese New Year is coming- use less joss sticks, please!

We take care of the problem next year...or the year after....or the one after that...whenever we get a break from laughing at you, all the way to the bank!

 

Yours truly

the freely elected government and their elite backers

[ThomasThBKK]

7 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Sounds to me Rumak that you have finally started to see the trees through the forest through the eyes of a Thai.  "Why do this", "Why do that", "Why Change", "We are all going to die, so why do anything to change when we die"....Thai logic, and you now have it..... Thainess.  If people would think about how there actions affect others outside of the bubble we live in maybe we would live in a better place with no whining or moaning, but then life would be boring wouldn't it!!!!!!!  We ALL have moral values which differ, but cultural differences where we force our own culture and views on others is just Bigotry.......Welcome to the world Archie Bunker.

You can't say that, most thais are as <deleted> off about all this stuff. They aren't stupid.

 

There's just not much you can do against a bunch of guys with Tanks, let's face it.

[ujayujay]

16 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

Someone lost their life burning sugar cane?

you seem to be a leading intellectual of this century????????????

[ThailandRyan]

9 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

You can't say that, most thais are as <deleted> off about all this stuff. They aren't stupid.

 

There's just not much you can do against a bunch of guys with Tanks, let's face it.

Nowhere in my comment did I say anything about most Thais and being stupid.  Choose your words wisely.  As I indicated there is something they can do about it.  Stop burning, fix there vehicles which spew exhaust.  Do not blame the fact they do this because they are poor.  Its done because as you say the government does not enforce this.....wrong!!!!!! As I said its accepted and they just continue on with daily life, even though they are ticked off about it.  Its like someone complaining that they can not do anything to change the world we live in...ego aside, everyone can make a difference and his comments were what I responded too.

[Sydebolle]

All this whining is justified as a few filthy rich elitarian members of Thailand's oligarchy (CP Group might spring to mind) are the sole beneficiary of this environmental damage. 

30+ years ago you had the occasional burnt field, no nuisance to nobody (except possibly the micro organism world which got incinerated on that particular field) and i.e. Chiang Mai was a lovely place to visit all year round.

This, notabene, has changed drastically; the haze in Chiang Mai hinders quality life for months and all that PM reading these days confirm, that it gets worse and worse. Take Pattaya with top bad readings; where does all that fine dust come from? Not the girlie bars nor the soapies, most likely it is strong West wind blowing the stuff in from Cambodia. Some now will argue, that this is ridiculous but some of you know about the Saharan sand dust across the Mediterranean sea which was traceable on French alps. 

Thailand is free falling towards a banana republic and those affected most do not even realize it - how sad! 

[Krataiboy]

Thailand should follow the Netherlands example and start suing the government and local tessabahns for failing to protect their citizens.

 

The publicity such a strategy would generate, with disastrous effects on tourism, should get officials off their backsides, whatever the courts may decide.

[URMySunshine]

4 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

All this whining is justified as a few filthy rich elitarian members of Thailand's oligarchy (CP Group might spring to mind) are the sole beneficiary of this environmental damage. 

30+ years ago you had the occasional burnt field, no nuisance to nobody (except possibly the micro organism world which got incinerated on that particular field) and i.e. Chiang Mai was a lovely place to visit all year round.

This, notabene, has changed drastically; the haze in Chiang Mai hinders quality life for months and all that PM reading these days confirm, that it gets worse and worse. Take Pattaya with top bad readings; where does all that fine dust come from? Not the girlie bars nor the soapies, most likely it is strong West wind blowing the stuff in from Cambodia. Some now will argue, that this is ridiculous but some of you know about the Saharan sand dust across the Mediterranean sea which was traceable on French alps. 

Thailand is free falling towards a banana republic and those affected most do not even realize it - how sad! 

The toxic air is my personal red line. Air purifiers are doing a roaring trade - the Numchai Samsung has just come in and we can get a credit note for the spare filter as they are totally out for weeks to come. So if you have one , are buying one stock up in filters. In Hat Yai the air is still fresh and my lungs are starting to feel good again. 

[kmj]

12 hours ago, rumak said:

type this in for AQI.     then on search go to  hua hin    or  prachuap kk  or  khon kaen  

it's everywhere !      https://www.airvisual.com/thailand/chiang-mai

Hi, take a look at https://www.airvisual.com/air-quality-map to understand where the readings are taken from for an area like Phetchaburi where there are only 2 meters taking readings 70km apart and both in built up areas. Then those readings are taken as an average in a 200km area, you can click on the individual markers to see the true reading of that meter.

[CGW]

51 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

You can't say that, most thais are as <deleted> off about all this stuff. They aren't stupid.

Indeed, they no longer have a voice, "they" control the government and the media, long fight back - if they ever do?

[ThomasThBKK]

38 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Nowhere in my comment did I say anything about most Thais and being stupid.  Choose your words wisely.  As I indicated there is something they can do about it.  Stop burning, fix there vehicles which spew exhaust.  Do not blame the fact they do this because they are poor.  Its done because as you say the government does not enforce this.....wrong!!!!!! As I said its accepted and they just continue on with daily life, even though they are ticked off about it.  Its like someone complaining that they can not do anything to change the world we live in...ego aside, everyone can make a difference and his comments were what I responded too.

yes you did, you called it thainess and it's just a stupid generalisation implying all thais are ignorant.

 

Most of the burning here is caused by 1 sugarcane manufacturer right now, a guy that happens to be the richest anti corruption commitee member: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitr_Phol_Group

 

they are the worlds fifth largest sugar producer, asias largest.

They are producing so much oversupply that they crashed the entire sugar market last year: http://sugar-asia.com/rise-sugar-industry-to-overhaul-the-sugar-system-of-thailand/

 

What is a thai going to do against them? It would be the governments job to stop them burning. But they won't, they are the government. literally.

[URMySunshine]

1 minute ago, CGW said:

Indeed, they no longer have a voice, "they" control the government and the media, long fight back - if they ever do?

I imagine the elite are not exactly happy with their countries air turning to shiite. The costs of fixing it are far lower than of the costs of maintaining the deteriorating status quo. The problem comes is that the levers of power don't really work when the push comes to shove and they are confronted with a crisis. 

 

[URMySunshine]

8 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

yes you did, you called it thainess and it's just a stupid generalisation implying all thais are ignorant.

 

Most of the burning here is caused by 1 sugarcane manufacturer right now, a guy that happens to be the richest anti corruption commitee member: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitr_Phol_Group

 

they are the worlds fifth largest sugar producer, asias largest.

They are producing so much oversupply that they crashed the entire sugar market last year: http://sugar-asia.com/rise-sugar-industry-to-overhaul-the-sugar-system-of-thailand/

 

What is a thai going to do against them? It would be the governments job to stop them burning. But they won't, they are the government. literally.

Looks we have ourselves a new Thaksin - well said. And to think bioethanol is supposed to be more green. That said remember 'Andy Hall'. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Hall_(activist)

[ThailandRyan]

10 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

yes you did, you called it thainess and it's just a stupid generalisation implying all thais are ignorant.

 

Most of the burning here is caused by 1 sugarcane manufacturer right now, a guy that happens to be the richest anti corruption commitee member: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitr_Phol_Group

 

they are the worlds fifth largest sugar producer, asias largest.

They are producing so much oversupply that they crashed the entire sugar market last year: http://sugar-asia.com/rise-sugar-industry-to-overhaul-the-sugar-system-of-thailand/

 

What is a thai going to do against them? It would be the governments job to stop them burning. But they won't, they are the government. literally.

Straight from TAT:  Their definition, and in no way did I imply they were ignorant.  You need to do a little homework....

 

TAT's executive director of Advertising and Public Relations said: "Thainess is a distinctive characteristic that lies at the heart of the national and cultural identity of Thai people. To convey Thainess, especially to foreigners, is a challenging task, so we have defined seven areas that we are promoting to the foreign target market: Thai food, Thai arts, Thai ways of life, Thai wisdom, Thai wellness, Thai festivity and Thai fun. This, in a nutshell, is how the TAT has defined Thainess .

 

From the Phuket News:  "embrace the longevity-enabling optimistic outlook for which Thainess is foremost and firmly rooted. Mai Pen Rai na, Yaa Kit Maak ไม่เป็นไรนะ อย่าคิดมาก – It’s alright na, don’t stress it!" 

 

Its why they just go with the flow Thomas...…..change is hard, its work, its a fight, just accepting something is as it is, leaves one as a part of the problem.  If your kids throw trash on the ground, do you just walk by and leave it, or do you pick it up and put it where it belongs.  To accept things as you see them as being just fine is not a solution to the ever widening issue.

[CGW]

11 minutes ago, URMySunshine said:

I imagine the elite are not exactly happy with their countries air turning to shiite. The costs of fixing it are far lower than of the costs of maintaining the deteriorating status quo. The problem comes is that the levers of power don't really work when the push comes to shove and they are confronted with a crisis. 

Indeed, they are confronted with a crisis! - that they manufactured, fixing it will be difficult at best as it will mean stopping burning and "annoying" the agricultural sector, a lot of the pollution is exasperated by traffic pollution, if they were to take all the polluting vehicles off the road the country would grind to a halt!

Their current plan would appear to be stay silent and do nothing!

[ThomasThBKK]

9 minutes ago, CGW said:

Indeed, they are confronted with a crisis! - that they manufactured, fixing it will be difficult at best as it will mean stopping burning and "annoying" the agricultural sector, a lot of the pollution is exasperated by traffic pollution, if they were to take all the polluting vehicles off the road the country would grind to a halt!

Their current plan would appear to be stay silent and do nothing!

 

Cars are not much of an issue according to real science, sure they make it worse but they aren't a fix for the issue we have: 

https://towardsdatascience.com/identifying-the-sources-of-winter-air-pollution-in-bangkok-part-i-d4392ea608dc 

https://towardsdatascience.com/identifying-the-sources-of-winter-air-pollution-in-bangkok-part-ii-72539f9b767a

 

Quote

The PM 2.5 level has a complex relationship with various factors: number of fires, weather patterns, and traffic. But this analysis confirms the suspicion that many people have — agricultural burning is the root cause of PM 2.5 pollution in Thailand. Burning activities as far as 720 km away from Bangkok, an area which extends into Myanmar, Laos, and Cambodia, can cause air problems in Bangkok. Solving this problem will not be easy. It will require a collaborative international effort among the Southeast Asian countries.

 

In other words we are skrewed.

 

If this was coming from Thailand and Malaysia only, then maybe.... but Laos and Cambodia, Myanmar will not ever give a <deleted> without a military intervention.

[CGW]

2 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Cars are not much of an issue according to real science, sure they make it worse but they aren't a fix for the issue we have: 

I keep reading this, if this were 100% true in the off season the levels of pollution would be a lot lower than what they are especially in the cities. But there not! ?

[malibukid]

Thai's do not see the big picture.  never been able to connect the dots.  no forward thinking or planning.  utter disaster. 

[ThomasThBKK]

2 minutes ago, CGW said:

I keep reading this, if this were 100% true in the off season the levels of pollution would be a lot lower than what they are especially in the cities. But there not! ?

It's all in the articles....

 

Quote

One of the sources of PM 2.5 particles is car engine exhaust. While campaigning for more public transportation usage is in general good for the environment, the effectiveness toward reducing PM 2.5 pollution is unclear. Here is why.

 

We have seen that PM 2.5 levels are related to the time of day. The pollution is lower around 3 pm, but remains high during the night time. When plotted against the traffic data, the relationship with the pollution level is very noisy. There does not seem to be a strong correlation.

 

 

Also there aren't any big pollution issues in offseason. Chiang Mai, Phuket and co are fine then. Bangkok is no worse than many european cities.

 

[zydeco]

32 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Most of the burning here is caused by 1 sugarcane manufacturer right now, a guy that happens to be the richest anti corruption commitee member: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitr_Phol_Group

This is in that wiki link. Absolutely incredible. They got an award for protecting the environment!  

Quote

Mitr Phol was awarded the Bonsucro Sustainability Award in 2015 for helping sugarcane farmers shift their focus to smart farming, reducing the cost of production by adopting new technology. In 2016, the group became the first company in Thailand and the second firm in Asia to be certified by Bonsucro, an international not for-profit organisation that promotes sustainable sugar cane. Its aim is to reduce the environmental and social impacts of sugarcane production.^[5] The group has won numerous other awards.^[9]

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

10 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

Cars are not much of an issue according to real science, sure they make it worse but they aren't a fix for the issue we have: 

https://towardsdatascience.com/identifying-the-sources-of-winter-air-pollution-in-bangkok-part-i-d4392ea608dc 

https://towardsdatascience.com/identifying-the-sources-of-winter-air-pollution-in-bangkok-part-ii-72539f9b767a

 

 

In other words we are skrewed.

 

Thanks for posting that. I'd never seen those articles before. But just finished reading both of them...

 

I must say, that lady author clearly has a brain and knows how to use it. A very interesting and complicated, well sourced piece of scientific/environmental analysis.

 

Despite Thai authorities almost exclusive public focus on the vehicle emissions side of air pollution here, a lot of us who live here clearly have been aware that agricultural and general waste burning is a major factor... and in the author's assessment... the dominant factor is our seasonal smog woes.

 

[URMySunshine]

9 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

Cars are not much of an issue according to real science, sure they make it worse but they aren't a fix for the issue we have: 

https://towardsdatascience.com/identifying-the-sources-of-winter-air-pollution-in-bangkok-part-i-d4392ea608dc 

https://towardsdatascience.com/identifying-the-sources-of-winter-air-pollution-in-bangkok-part-ii-72539f9b767a

 

 

In other words we are skrewed.

 

If this was coming from Thailand and Malaysia only, then maybe.... but Laos and Cambodia, Myanmar will not ever give a <deleted> without a military intervention.

If you are waiting to be saved by the cavalry then you may be waiting a long time. If you are thinking should I buy an air purifier think no more as it says in the Lion King "it is time" . At least in the 12 hours you spend in your house/condo the air will be clean. 

[ThomasThBKK]

Just now, URMySunshine said:

If you are waiting to be saved by the cavalry then you may be waiting a long time. If you are thinking should I buy an air purifier think no more as it says in the Lion King "it is time" . At least in the 12 hours you spend in your house/condo the air will be clean. 

I have 2 in our condo but it doesn't solve the issue really.

Even on the island where we have a house, where no cars are allowed, the air is totally skrewed. What's the point of having an island getaway if you dye from coughing there...

 

We are currently looking for RE in Lisbon, as you said, help yourself... still sucks that millions have to suffer for a handful of people to make big bucks.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, kmj said:

Hi, take a look at https://www.airvisual.com/air-quality-map to understand where the readings are taken from for an area like Phetchaburi where there are only 2 meters taking readings 70km apart and both in built up areas. Then those readings are taken as an average in a 200km area, you can click on the individual markers to see the true reading of that meter.

 

The AirVisual site, for simplicity purposes, has two general types of PM2.5/AQI readings...

 

1. are those from government and privately operated air quality sensors that report real time results for their location.

 

2. are AirVisual's own "modeled" ESTIMATES for areas where there are NO sensors. So they use the closest available sensors along with satellite data to make estimated pollution levels for those non-sensor locations.

 

There are two ways to know when a location on AirVisual doesn't reflect an actual sensor reading, and instead is a modeled estimate.

1. the AQI value listed on their website or app is followed with an "*" asterisk.

2. the geographic maps shown by AirVisual with the little round AQI value indicators only show actual sensor locations. They don't show any values for the modeled locations.

 

[anchadian]

Good read from the Bangkok Post today.......Govt blames public for PM2.5 levels

[CNXexpat]

14 hours ago, rumak said:

guess some of you don't know the sultan of satire.   ok ok,  it was pretty believable 

Because nobody can see your smiling face when you are writing to know that you are not serious, a smart man or women invented the ????  

There are so many strange and stupid comments about every topic in the internet they are meant serious, that it´s difficult for readers to find out if the comment writer really means what he writes or not. 

[anchadian]

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/bangkoks-samsen-road-the-most-polluted-today/

 

 

[CGW]

7 minutes ago, anchadian said:

Good read from the Bangkok Post today.......Govt blames public for PM2.5 levels

Interesting how they make no mention of them paying farmers to start growing sugar cane! knowing full well that it would be burnt!

[Chazar]

18 hours ago, YetAnother said:

to me it all boils down to intelligence

nah,  it  all boils down to whats easiest, cheapest, laziest and the........ i dont  care  attitude

[URMySunshine]

33 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

I have 2 in our condo but it doesn't solve the issue really.

Even on the island where we have a house, where no cars are allowed, the air is totally skrewed. What's the point of having an island getaway if you dye from coughing there...

 

We are currently looking for RE in Lisbon, as you said, help yourself... still sucks that millions have to suffer for a handful of people to make big bucks.

Lisbon is a refreshing '11' - Portugal is on a lot of folk's radar at the moment it would seem.