Youtube

[wintermute]

Banning youtube will have the opposite effect of what the military junta wanted. It will just make people want to see it more and cause debate over free speech (something they want to stifle) laws in Thailand. Plus it just makes Thailand look reactionary and backwards. You know countries that usually cry for banning websites aren't the sort that are viewed in a positive light in most cases.

[sriracha john]

I am on True and I cannot access YouTube. I would think that whatever they are trying to achieve by blocking this site they undo by all the adverse publicity they get through doing so.

I think what "they" are trying to do is worthwhile and reflects the view of millions and millions and millions of Thais.

It is hoped that YouTube can be educated in the process and perhaps even be the recipient of some of this adverse publicity in that it has to couch their tremendous power in the use of the world-wide Internet with the sensitivity that not all people want to see anything and everything and that some subjects are unsuitable to show.

They already demonstrate that knowledge to some degree in other areas in that they don't show full-on nudity, but obviously they need to learn this about other areas as well.

You sound like you like censorship.

Youtube has ZERO responsibility against some people taking offence. That is the risk anyone takes by opening their mouth - someone takes offence. it doesn't mean they should be shut up.

And you really think the government blocking the site, is something the people here would like to see? Really? You think people are going "they said something bad about us on a site, thank God they blocked the site so I cannot read it!" - while the rest of the world will still be able and in the end can be ridiculed for blocking the content in the first place.

Why does YouTube not allow full-on nudity?

Why does YouTube not show beheadings?

Why do they have a "Report as Offensive" button on each video?

It's because they DO self-censor clips. They are just chosing not to on this one. Why?

Why don't they respond to the wishes of the probably by now hundreds of requests to delete this video?

This isn't about the junta censoring a website. ANY Thai government would make a move to block this. It's about deceny and respect for someone an entire country reveres. It's about an issue that many Westerners may have difficulty comprehending, but anyone who has any inkling whatsoever about Thailand shouldn't.

It's an issue that that Thai people take extremely seriously and for those not clued in, it's something that Mr. Jufer is finding out about now as he sits in the Chiang Mai prison, or wherever, for the next 10 years.

As for my favoring censorship... that's laughable. I'm very much anti-censorship... I am, however, on this issue, pro-decency and pro-respect. It's not that difficult to comprehend, is it?

Edited April 4, 2007 by sriracha john

[DirkGently]

It is the modern day version of burning books.

Dont ever, at all, for any reason let people think for themselves.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Why does YouTube not allow full-on nudity?

Why does YouTube not show beheadings?

Why do they have a "Report as Offensive" button on each video?

It's because they DO self-censor clips. They are just chosing not to on this one. Why?

Why don't they respond to the wishes of the probably by now hundreds of requests to delete this video?

This isn't about the junta censoring a website. ANY Thai government would make a move to block this. It's about deceny and respect for someone an entire country reveres. It's about an issue that many Westerners may have difficulty comprehending, but anyone who has any inkling whatsoever about Thailand shouldn't.

Was there any full nudity in the banned video? Or any beheadings?

What exactly would be deemed obviously offensive in the banned video?

If a culture is more easily offended then should allowable content to changed to reflect that sensitive culture? Obviously most of the world is offending Muslim societies. Should we change the standard of content to reflect Saudi Arabia for example?

[chevykanteve]

In all fairness, Thailand isn't the only country to have blocked YouTube from its viewing public. If I recall, so did IRAN.

[Tywais]

What exactly would be deemed obviously offensive in the banned video?

If a culture is more easily offended then should allowable content to changed to reflect that sensitive culture? Obviously most of the world is offending Muslim societies. Should we change the standard of content to reflect Saudi Arabia for example?

If you remember, there was significant fallout across the globe from the cartoons of the prophet being published. I believe a lot of changes happened after that.

[sriracha john]

Why does YouTube not allow full-on nudity?

Why does YouTube not show beheadings?

Why do they have a "Report as Offensive" button on each video?

It's because they DO self-censor clips. They are just choosing not to on this one. Why?

Why don't they respond to the wishes of the probably by now hundreds of requests to delete this video?

This isn't about the junta censoring a website. ANY Thai government would make a move to block this. It's about decency and respect for someone an entire country reveres. It's about an issue that many Westerners may have difficulty comprehending, but anyone who has any inkling whatsoever about Thailand shouldn't.

Was there any full nudity in the banned video? Or any beheadings?

Point being it's not a free for all at youtube... they do have limits... that they DO delete video clips... that they DO censor themselves. I would suspect that they DO have a function for the "report as offensive" button, so the question then becomes why not honor the wishes of so many people who have clicked on it? Would it be because with 32 news articles it's publicity and a money-maker for them?

What exactly would be deemed obviously offensive in the banned video?

Any of the news reports and/or posted remarks describing it should be rather self-explanatory, yes?.

If a culture is more easily offended then should allowable content to changed to reflect that sensitive culture? Obviously most of the world is offending Muslim societies. Should we change the standard of content to reflect Saudi Arabia for example?

What is that standard that YouTube uses? Is it related to their "offensive" button? Most likely, things are looked at on a case-by-case basis. I would imagine that there has been content that has been deleted as it was deemed offensive to different groups over time, be they Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, or Christians. For example, I wouldn't expect to find White Supremacists hate speech video clips on YouTube.

[jetjock]

The offending video has now been removed from You tube. I just logged on to You Tube from the US and attemped to view video but get the message that it has now been removed for rule violations.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

What exactly would be deemed obviously offensive in the banned video?

If a culture is more easily offended then should allowable content to changed to reflect that sensitive culture? Obviously most of the world is offending Muslim societies. Should we change the standard of content to reflect Saudi Arabia for example?

If you remember, there was significant fallout across the globe from the cartoons of the prophet being published. I believe a lot of changes happened after that.

Thats a good point about the cartoons. It was resisted on the basis of freedom of speech but nobody wanted their embassy set on fire or other violence. Interestingly Iran held cartoon about jesus or something in retribution. Censorship by coercion.

A number of other countries have temporarily or continually blocked youtube. Brazil, Turkey, Iran, China, North Korea (duh)

The two way street argument is one that begs to be asked. Why would Thailand continue to have the worlds big draw sex industry when it offends many muslim cultures including its southern neighbor? It seems cultures want the benefits of being inflexible about its own culture but others should be flexible for theirs.

[Crushdepth]

Their miserable attempts at internet censorship are doomed. It is trivially easy to bypass and the more they crack down the more people become aware of it.

It is so utterly ineffective that I can only think they do it for reasons of face.

[sriracha john]

The offending video has now been removed from You tube. I just logged on to You Tube from the US and attemped to view video but get the message that it has now been removed for rule violations.

So much for "quick" response to viewer's requests... but at least they ultimately did respond.

[cclub75]

The offending video has now been removed from You tube. I just logged on to You Tube from the US and attemped to view video but get the message that it has now been removed for rule violations.

So much for "quick" response to viewer's requests... but at least they ultimately did respond.

Wrong.

As I said before (but my post was deleted, it's amazing).

The video is still on line.

And many people, not thai, send comments (not nice). They came BECAUSE of the ban.

Bravo for the publicity work...

[Wolfie]

The offending video has now been removed from You tube. I just logged on to You Tube from the US and attemped to view video but get the message that it has now been removed for rule violations.

Just tried to access it from within Thailand.. cannot.

Hopefully this will be the end of this farcical episode

[roblin]

its still there

[Upcountry]

I agree with many comments made so far regarding censorship, though I get the sense that the video is indeed offensive. The only reason, ironically, that I had any interest in viewing it was because someone said I wasn't allowed to do so!

As said before, the censors are experiencing the "Banned in Boston" effect.

As for discussions of workarounds to censorship here on this forum, I suggest that this is not the best place to ask the question or find the answer. A simple search on the *net will provide intriguing solutions. I forgot a good one and found it by searching that way. So there is no reason to give the TV mods a headache. ;-)

Fast is this is this is not the last time we will be bugged by censorship here. Long live darknet.

* (think wiki, etc.)

[marquess]

its still there

The world doesn't beat to just one drum!

[A_Traveller]

As of now 23:08 04/04 the video is still on line, it has been viewed 16,019 times and comments are still operational with 328 logged, though the last was 18 minutes ago.

Regards

/edit update figures //

Edited April 4, 2007 by A_Traveller

[jetjock]

its still there

I am sorry I posted the wrong information. My apologies to all. I just went back and tried accessing the video and contrary to what I posted, Yes the video is still there. I am not sure why I got the message that it had been removed on my previous attempt to view it.

The interesting part is that I normally would have never looked at the video however when Thailand censored its viewing, it made me curious enough to watch it. Just goes to show that if you want to promote something--just ban it ! I found the videos attempt at humor to be even more stupid than offensive.

Edited April 4, 2007 by jetjock

[wintermute]

What is that standard that YouTube uses? Is it related to their "offensive" button? Most likely, things are looked at on a case-by-case basis. I would imagine that there has been content that has been deleted as it was deemed offensive to different groups over time, be they Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, or Christians. For example, I wouldn't expect to find White Supremacists hate speech video clips on YouTube.

Honestly, I can see why the youtube administration didn't care one bit. Only people in this country can manage to get so riled up over something so trivial to anyone who isn't Thai. Last time I saw Youtube is owned by Google and it's an American company. In America there is this thing called Freedom of Speech and damned if some tin-pot military dictators in a foreign country will try and tell them what they can or can't do. They gave similar responses to the islamofascists that were crying about the Mohammad drawings too. I expect they will hold their ground on this as well and bravo to them.

It's unfortunate that people like you believe that censorship is the solution in one to everyone's problems. History as shown that those that are willing to burn books and suppress speech will be willing to burn humans next.

Edited April 4, 2007 by wintermute

[dantilley]

I would never normally have seen the video but now, just out of curiosity, I'll view it when I'm at work tomorrow on a computer that allows me to. Just to see what all the fuss is about. Many, many more people will be viewing this video than they ever would have done if this block wasn't put in place.

[Prakanong]

I would never normally have seen the video but now, just out of curiosity, I'll view it when I'm at work tomorrow on a computer that allows me to. Just to see what all the fuss is about. Many, many more people will be viewing this video than they ever would have done if this block wasn't put in place.

I agree - I would not have bothered myself if it had not been reported so widely!

[wintermute]

I would never normally have seen the video but now, just out of curiosity, I'll view it when I'm at work tomorrow on a computer that allows me to. Just to see what all the fuss is about. Many, many more people will be viewing this video than they ever would have done if this block wasn't put in place.

Exactly. The internet has a way of rallying grass roots efforts against censorship. This will attract a LOT of negative attention towards Thailand. More than they can ever imagine because it will become a running joke too. Guess who will probably end up being the target?

[sriracha john]

What is that standard that YouTube uses? Is it related to their "offensive" button? Most likely, things are looked at on a case-by-case basis. I would imagine that there has been content that has been deleted as it was deemed offensive to different groups over time, be they Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, or Christians. For example, I wouldn't expect to find White Supremacists hate speech video clips on YouTube.

Honestly, I can see why the youtube administration didn't care one bit. Only people in this country can manage to get so riled up over something so trivial to anyone who isn't Thai. Last time I saw Youtube is owned by Google and it's an American company. In America there is this thing called Freedom of Speech and damned if some tin-pot military dictators in a foreign country will try and tell them what they can or can't do. They gave similar responses to the islamofascists that were crying about the Mohammad drawings too. I expect they will hold their ground on this as well and bravo to them.

It's unfortunate that people like you believe that censorship is the solution in one to everyone's problems. History as shown that those that are willing to burn books and suppress speech will be willing to burn humans next.

Has YouTube EVER deleted a video? If so, why?

and once again, this has nothing to do with the present government.... it has to do with His Majesty the King... and anyone who doesn't understand that offensive portrayals of His Majesty are going to upset millions of Thais doesn't understand Thailand.

and yet again, I don't believe censorship is "the solution in one to everyone's problems" as you overstate. Free speech comes with responsibility firmly stapled forever to it. It's why there are limits placed on it in every country of the world.

It's also why YouTube DOES censor.

[jetjock]

If you have not yet seen the video but you enjoy the type of humour where someone draws a mustache on a girl in a billboard, then you will think the video is funny. If you are like me and do not find this type of humour funny, then you will agree that this video is so stupid that it appears to be a feeble attempt by someone with the mentality of less than a 5 year old !

[wintermute]

What is that standard that YouTube uses? Is it related to their "offensive" button? Most likely, things are looked at on a case-by-case basis. I would imagine that there has been content that has been deleted as it was deemed offensive to different groups over time, be they Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, or Christians. For example, I wouldn't expect to find White Supremacists hate speech video clips on YouTube.

Honestly, I can see why the youtube administration didn't care one bit. Only people in this country can manage to get so riled up over something so trivial to anyone who isn't Thai. Last time I saw Youtube is owned by Google and it's an American company. In America there is this thing called Freedom of Speech and damned if some tin-pot military dictators in a foreign country will try and tell them what they can or can't do. They gave similar responses to the islamofascists that were crying about the Mohammad drawings too. I expect they will hold their ground on this as well and bravo to them.

It's unfortunate that people like you believe that censorship is the solution in one to everyone's problems. History as shown that those that are willing to burn books and suppress speech will be willing to burn humans next.

Has YouTube EVER deleted a video? If so, why?

and once again, this has nothing to do with the present government.... it has to do with His Majesty the King... and anyone who doesn't understand that offensive portrayals of His Majesty are going to upset millions of Thais doesn't understand Thailand.

and yet again, I don't believe censorship is "the solution in one to everyone's problems" as you overstate. Free speech comes with responsibility firmly stapled forever to it. It's why there are limits placed on it in every country of the world.

It's also why YouTube DOES censor.

Just to give you a historical anecdote to work with here..Stalin used to be revered by millions too and he used to "disappear" individuals and media that was unfavorable to his image. I know what the status of the leadership here is and NO i'm not equating him to Stalin but it's the principle that counts. At the heart of things it's the same and that's why I really doubt the world would accept Thai standards for censorship and nor should we. The rest of the world isn't answerable to the social sensitivities of one nation. If they don't like it then they can close their borders up like North Korea and sulk.

[cclub75]

Exactly. The internet has a way of rallying grass roots efforts against censorship. This will attract a LOT of negative attention towards Thailand. More than they can ever imagine because it will become a running joke too. Guess who will probably end up being the target?

Done.

Enough to read the comments on YouTube...

This morning it was only outraged reactions from thai viewers.

And since this afternoon... Well the tone has totally changed if I may say...

And you're right : some comments are now even more offensive than the video, especially from a politic point of view....

[jetjock]

And you're right : some comments are now even more offensive than the video, especially from a politic point of view....

Curiosity got the best of me after reading your remarks about the comments being more offensive than the video so I just went back to read the comments. Your were absolutely correct. By reading the comments, it was a learning experience as I have now learned hundreds of new ways to use the <deleted> word. I also agree that many of the comments were much more offensive than the video. An obscure video that would have passed relatively unnoticed due to its stupidity has now gained national recognition due to being banned. Once again, great thinking by the Thai government.

[wintermute]

Curiosity got the best of me after reading your remarks about the comments being more offensive than the video so I just went back to read the comments. Your were absolutely correct. By reading the comments, it was a learning experience as I have now learned hundreds of new ways to use the <deleted> word. I also agree that many of the comments were much more offensive than the video. An obscure video that would have passed relatively unnoticed due to its stupidity has now gained national recognition due to being banned. Once again, great thinking by the Thai government.

A similar situation happened when Thailand took a very aggressive and demanding approach to ban the book The King Never Smiles. They even sent a big diplomatic entourage to go and try to persuade George Bush Sr. to get it banned from his alumni Yale because the book was being published at Yale University Press. Basically Bush Sr. told them that constitutional freedom of speech is an unalienable right in America. They left home all sullen and started up a slander campaign against the author of the book. Instead it increased sales of the book and made the author an international spokesman on the political situation on Thailand.

Thailand is truly unbelievable sometimes they just can't fathom that the rest of the world doesn't follow their illogical rules.

Edited April 4, 2007 by wintermute

[Midnight Blue]

Would anyone ever know what they looked like if they never saw their reflection?

Should people not expect the same fate as the fate of those whose company we keep?

Funny, I used videos from Youtube for instructing 30+ students.

[Upcountry]

http://www.bangkokpost.com/Database/04Apr2007_data71.php

This is NOT about circumventing censorship; I’m referring readers to today’s BP Database article that suggests a tool for discovering what’s going on with redirection when they access websites.

I installed software from http://www.insecure.org, and got this result when I tested youtube:

D:\nmap >nmap.exe -v -P0 -A youtube.com

Starting Nmap 4.20 ( http://insecure.org ) at 2007-04-05 00:02 SE Asia Standard Time

Warning: Hostname youtube.com resolves to 2 IPs. Using 208.65.153.251.

Initiating Parallel DNS resolution of 1 host. at 00:02

Completed Parallel DNS resolution of 1 host. at 00:02, 0.34s elapsed

Initiating SYN Stealth Scan at 00:02

Scanning 208.65.153.251 [1697 ports]

SYN Stealth Scan Timing: About 8.78% done; ETC: 00:08 (0:05:18 remaining)

Stats: 0:05:46 elapsed; 0 hosts completed (1 up), 1 undergoing SYN Stealth Scan

SYN Stealth Scan Timing: About 99.26% done; ETC: 00:08 (0:00:02 remaining)

Completed SYN Stealth Scan at 00:08, 346.67s elapsed (1697 total ports)

Initiating Service scan at 00:08

Warning: OS detection for 208.65.153.251 will be MUCH less reliable because we did not find at least 1 open and 1 closed TCP port

Initiating OS detection (try #1) against 208.65.153.251

Host 208.65.153.251 appears to be up ... good.

All 1697 scanned ports on 208.65.153.251 are filtered

Too many fingerprints match this host to give specific OS details

OS and Service detection performed. Please report any incorrect results at http://insecure.org/nmap/submit/ .

Nmap finished: 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 354.859 seconds

Raw packets sent: 3418 (152.672KB) | Rcvd: 0 (0B)

This may be helpful too, also suggested in the article:

http://livehttpheaders.mozdev.org./

I haven’t followed up on that yet.