4 minutes ago, Chazar said:

One  day one of those  nutjob countries  will let go with their nukes they are secretly  building, its  bad enough too  many countries  have them  now but those  hotheads have no rights with them.

Ask the Kurds what they think after they were  gassed,next time gas wont be the only  thing, someone should  nuke N  Korea whislt theyre at it.

So, you don't have an explanation, just war mongering rhetoric.

Just now, Chazar said:

They couldnt  ask could  they thats  just how Saddam  liked it

 So the US decided they wanted democracy whether they wanted it or not?

10 hours ago, mike787 said:

Without the US they are nothing.

Ah come on, everyone is something.

6 minutes ago, giddyup said:

You sound just like another trigger happy Yank, certainly a trigger happy somebody.

Some people here seem to have disdain for Americans. It might have something to do with malnourisment, or over consumption of alcohol and drugs. All of which stem from psychic pain of coming from a powerless weak hellhole dependent upon others for their very existance due to the weakness of its people, and their institutions. I could be wrong.

Edited January 26, 20206 yr by WalkingOrders
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10 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Trump is so beholden to Israel, he would literally put the entire national security of the US at stake to protect them and to defend their extremist policies. 

A grossly unfair, unsubstantiated statement made in reply to someone who was making a fair point. The response is indicitive of someone who really has no understanding of the policy desires of Trump or the nationalist paleo conservatives that worked to put him in office. It is not easy for a President to push back against the Neoconservative/neoliberal 25 year consensus which includes the press, and bureucracy of the Intel, defense, and State department apparatus. Haven't noticed? Too busy following the herd?

Edited January 26, 20206 yr by WalkingOrders
Remove word

14 hours ago, bristolboy said:

You mean the President who promised to withdraw troops from the Mideast and instead has considerably raised their number? This is the President whose actions in the Mideast you support?

That's the guy.

1 minute ago, WalkingOrders said:

That's the guy.

Corrected ‘that’s the lying guy’. Done

13 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

Some people here seem to have disdain for Americans. It might have something to do with malnourisment, or over consumption of alcohol and drugs. All of which stem from psychic pain of coming from a powerless weak hellhole dependent upon others for their very existance due to the weakness of its people, and their institutions. I could be wrong.

I don't have a disdain for Americans per se, only Americas interference in other countries and their readiness to wage war unprovoked.

9 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

Some people here seem to have disdain for Americans. It might have something to do with malnourisment, or over consumption of alcohol and drugs. All of which stem from psychic pain of coming from a powerless weak hellhole dependent upon others for their very existance due to the weakness of its people, and their institutions. I could be wrong.

... and you could be right.

Your description sounds spot on for what the US has become in recent years.

10 hours ago, heybruce said:

By that standard (using diplomatic, economic and/or military power to register objection) China is also an imperialist power, and North Korea a regional imperialist.  In fact it's difficult to think of a country that is not an imperialist.

"Extending ones power or influence using military force" North Korea?

23 minutes ago, giddyup said:

 So the US decided they wanted democracy whether they wanted it or not?

They got the  choice and no theyre  gonna throw it away........for the second  time, wonder  how  half  the Iraqi  population of  women feel about their  choices in Iraq

3 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Corrected ‘that’s the lying guy’. Done

They  all  lie

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

You don't seem to grasp the fact that the US  invaded Iraq without provocation and motives based on lies.

Maybe I dont care, Saddam had it  coming for a  longtime

Edited January 26, 20206 yr by Chazar

3 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I don't have a disdain for Americans per se, only Americas interference in other countries and their readiness to wage war unprovoked.

Likewise, I have no disdain for non-Americans per se, only those with zero grasp of international relations, the realism of Great power politics, and history, unless they are farmers.

1 minute ago, Chazar said:

Maybe I dont care, Saddam had it  coming for a  longtime

The US has been happy to prop up other dictatorships when it suited them, bloody hypocrites.

4 minutes ago, Chazar said:

They  all  lie

Nothing on the scale like Trump.

9 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Corrected ‘that’s the lying guy’. Done

No that would be you.

Just now, Eric Loh said:

Nothing on the scale like Trump.

The US has a pretty good history of lying presidents, hard pushed to say who was the biggest liar.

4 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Then why bother to comment at all?

Why  not Im still free to do so , well at least on that subject.

4 minutes ago, giddyup said:

The US has been happy to prop up other dictatorships when it suited them, bloody hypocrites.

As  do  most other countries, its a <deleted>  unfair  world

Edited January 26, 20206 yr by Chazar

Just now, Chazar said:

Why  not Im still free to do so , well at least on that subject.

But you said you don't care.

Just now, giddyup said:

But you said you don't care.

I dont, does that mean I cant/mustnt answer your questions? its  just  my non caring opinion of this subject matter

1 minute ago, Chazar said:

I dont, does that mean I cant/mustnt answer your questions? its  just  my non caring opinion of this subject matter

Makes about as much sense as the rest of your replies.

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

Of course you can dislike them, just don't be vocal about it.

I  wonder  how many Iraqi women would  like the American freedoms in Iraq....its  half  the population

40 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I don't have a disdain for Americans per se, only Americas interference in other countries and their readiness to wage war unprovoked.

I do not have disdain for Americans. In a sense, they are my people. But, I have tremendous disdain for the politicians, and of course, Trump. I prefer integrity, decency, honor, and grace, over a gangland mentality. Sorry, but that is just me. 

1 hour ago, giddyup said:

 So the US decided they wanted democracy whether they wanted it or not?

I recall that the USA was freshly reeling from the horrible attacks of 9.11. This was a very fearful time in the United States. We had nearly 3000 dead, and were expecting more attacks. In this setting the Neoconservatives were able to capitalize. Even weak claims of Iraqi involvement, did not sit well. So what fell apart? The Neocons in the administration were able to override our own intelligence through manipulation. Even Colin Powell who made the case before the United Nations later said he was lied to. This presentation by Powell, a man trusted by most Americans pretty much sealed the deal for most Americans to get onboard. 

 

As for the fantasy of the Iraqi welcoming Americans with open arms, the creation of a thriving democracy etc. I dont think manyvAmericans ever bought that. And here we are decades later, and the idea is still pushed, and its still a bad idea.

 

The authorization for the Iraq war was bi-partisan, a refection of the neo-liberal/Neo-con policy consensus...but with the neocons leading the charge... fully capitalizing on the fear of the time. What if Bush was not President? I think that its difficult to think that an attack on Iraq would not have happened. The war may have been prosecuted differently, but it still would have happened. 

 

I think some fairness needs to be given to the Bush administration despite their obvious lies. That the same fear infecting the general population was affecting the Aministration is a reasonable assumption.

 

The 8 years of the Obama Clinton foreign policy apparatus resulted in nothing more then a extension of the Neolib/neocon apparatus with emphasis on regime change, while pushing a failed two state solution and pretending to be a neutral party with regard to Israel Palestine.

 

It is interesting to see that Trump, who calls for withdrawal of forces, a dropping of the phoney pretence of being a neutral party with regard to Israel, a retraction from Nato, de-escalation with Russia, and stronger stance regarding China, has met with absolute war from the policy appartaus of both parties (GOP neocon wing), and bureaucracy that wants to run policy.

 

You see how Trump has literally been forced to change, delay, or moderate positions. And who causes this the Neocons/neolibs who have created the evil orangeman fiction...which does what? Focuses hate on the man in Orwellian fashion, while hiding policy. 

Edited January 26, 20206 yr by WalkingOrders
Sp

Off topic trolling posts and the replies have been removed. 

49 minutes ago, giddyup said:

The US has been happy to prop up other dictatorships when it suited them, bloody hypocrites.

I bet some here cry just as loud that the USA has a responsibility to protect when suits them. That is the definition of hypocritical. Comes from a deep feeling of angst at being from someplace powerless even in their own self defense.

14 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

I recall that the USA was freshly reeling from the horrible attacks of 9.11. This was a very fearful time in the United States. We had nearly 3000 dead, and were expecting more attacks. In this setting the Neoconservatives were able to capitalize. Even weak claims of Iraqi involvement, did not sit well. So what fell apart? The Neocons in the administration were able to override our own intelligence through manipulation. Even Colin Powell who made the case before the United Nations later said he was lied to. This presentation by Powell, a man trusted by most Americans pretty much sealed the deal for most Americans to get onboard. 

 

As for the fantasy of the Iraqi welcoming Americans with open arms, the creation of a thriving democracy etc. I dont think manyvAmericans ever bought that. And here we are decades later, and the idea is still pushed, and its still a bad idea.

 

The authorization for the Iraq war was bi-partisan, a refection of the neo-liberal/Neo-con policy consensus...but with the neocons leading the charge... fully capitalizing on the fear of the time. What if Bush was not President? I think that its difficult to think that an attack on Iraq would not have happened. The war may have been prosecuted differently, but it still would have happened. 

 

I think some fairness needs to be given to the Bush administration despite their obvious lies. That the same fear infecting the general population was affecting the Aministration is a reasonable assumption.

 

The 8 years of the Obama Clinton foreign policy apparatus resulted in nothing more then a extension of the Neolib/neocon apparatus with emphasis on regime change, while pushing a failed two state solution and pretending to be a neutral party with regard to Israel Palestine.

 

It is interesting to see that Trump, who calls for withdrawal of forces, a dropping of the phoney pretence of being a neutral party with regard to Israel, a retraction from Nato, de-escalation with Russia, and stronger stance regarding China, has met with absolute war from the policy appartaus of both parties (GOP neocon wing), and bureaucracy that wants to run policy.

 

You see how Trump has literally been forced to change, delay, or moderate positions. And who causes this the Neocons/neolibs who have created the evil orangeman fiction...which does what? Focuses hate on the man in Orwellian fashion, while hiding policy. 

Sorry to disagree, but Trump has done a good enough job on his own, in creating the evil orangeman persona. Nobody had to do it for him. And never forget. He was the one who drew first blood from the media. He started that war. It was perhaps the most mindless thing he has done to date. And he has done hundreds of mindless things. An absolute barrage of mindlessness emanates from the very white house, on a daily basis. 

 

I do agree with you about Obama. I think on some levels, he was more conservative than Bush Jr. 

1 hour ago, WalkingOrders said:

I bet some here cry just as loud that the USA has a responsibility to protect when suits them. That is the definition of hypocritical. Comes from a deep feeling of angst at being from someplace powerless even in their own self defense.

Nope. never needed them, never will.