Some more troll posts and the replies have been removed. 

1 hour ago, WalkingOrders said:

I bet some here cry just as loud that the USA has a responsibility to protect when suits them. That is the definition of hypocritical. Comes from a deep feeling of angst at being from someplace powerless even in their own self defense.

The world doesn't need America as much as America thinks it does.

19 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Nope. never needed them, never will.

This response plainly indicates a failure to understand the simple meaning of my post.

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

The world doesn't need America as much as America thinks it does.

Glad to hear it! please join me in my quest to have the USA withdraw all forces from the middle east, and Europe. And kindly don't ask for any assistance if you can help it. America First! 

1 minute ago, WalkingOrders said:

Glad to hear it! please join me in my quest to have the USA withdraw all forces from the middle east, and Europe. And kindly don't ask for any assistance if you can help it. America First! 

That's right, fix the  massive problems you have at home first.

7 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

This response plainly indicates a failure to understand the simple meaning of my post.

You wish.

18 minutes ago, giddyup said:

That's right, fix the  massive problems you have at home first.

That's right.

5 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

I recall that the USA was freshly reeling from the horrible attacks of 9.11. This was a very fearful time in the United States. We had nearly 3000 dead, and were expecting more attacks. In this setting the Neoconservatives were able to capitalize. Even weak claims of Iraqi involvement, did not sit well. So what fell apart? The Neocons in the administration were able to override our own intelligence through manipulation. Even Colin Powell who made the case before the United Nations later said he was lied to. This presentation by Powell, a man trusted by most Americans pretty much sealed the deal for most Americans to get onboard. 

 

As for the fantasy of the Iraqi welcoming Americans with open arms, the creation of a thriving democracy etc. I dont think manyvAmericans ever bought that. And here we are decades later, and the idea is still pushed, and its still a bad idea.

 

The authorization for the Iraq war was bi-partisan, a refection of the neo-liberal/Neo-con policy consensus...but with the neocons leading the charge... fully capitalizing on the fear of the time. What if Bush was not President? I think that its difficult to think that an attack on Iraq would not have happened. The war may have been prosecuted differently, but it still would have happened. 

 

I think some fairness needs to be given to the Bush administration despite their obvious lies. That the same fear infecting the general population was affecting the Aministration is a reasonable assumption.

 

The 8 years of the Obama Clinton foreign policy apparatus resulted in nothing more then a extension of the Neolib/neocon apparatus with emphasis on regime change, while pushing a failed two state solution and pretending to be a neutral party with regard to Israel Palestine.

 

It is interesting to see that Trump, who calls for withdrawal of forces, a dropping of the phoney pretence of being a neutral party with regard to Israel, a retraction from Nato, de-escalation with Russia, and stronger stance regarding China, has met with absolute war from the policy appartaus of both parties (GOP neocon wing), and bureaucracy that wants to run policy.

 

You see how Trump has literally been forced to change, delay, or moderate positions. And who causes this the Neocons/neolibs who have created the evil orangeman fiction...which does what? Focuses hate on the man in Orwellian fashion, while hiding policy. 

Any kind of strategy in stead of present ad hoc decisions would be great.

On ‎1‎/‎25‎/‎2020 at 9:22 AM, TopDeadSenter said:

America saved the Iraqi's from the oppressive and tyrannical Saddam, then the Iraqi's had a chance to make their lives and country great. But, instead they chose to fight each other about power and religious opinions and made a right pig's ear of the opportunity the USA gave them. Now they blame it all on America. Ungrateful, and they deserve exactly the mess they are in. End of.

Chose to fight each other over power and religious opinions , now I wonder which other  country in the world can hold its hand up ...........

7 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

I bet some here cry just as loud that the USA has a responsibility to protect when suits them. That is the definition of hypocritical. Comes from a deep feeling of angst at being from someplace powerless even in their own self defense.

im sure you think its ok for the US to beg for other countries to helo with their wars.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't 

On 1/25/2020 at 6:22 PM, WalkingOrders said:

Retreat? This isn't a run from battle, I favor US Forces leaving Iraq and Afghanistan, as remaining is failed policy. Am I being disagreed with here. As for side steppinq a question, what question is that? I oppose taking in futher refugees, I believe in withdraw from Iraq, and Afghanistan. I speak based on reality here not hypothetical principle. Likwise I favor leaving the NATO alliance, and withdraw from Germany and South Korea. Clear I think. I prefer bilateral to multinational treaties, and harsh responses to attack on US interests, and otherwise withdraw from intanglements. State your argument.

Sadly for you, it doesn't matter what you favour should happen to the US military worldwide. That is down to the US government and "(Deity" preserve us all) the POTUS, Donald J Trump who seems to change his mind more often than his underwear.

 

He scares more people in the world as he interferes in military matters with a clue what he is doing. He has p*ssed off so many allies who have supported the USA since 1941 and even they have no idea what he will do tomorrow let alone the rest of the week.

 

He makes long term military and diplomacy a nightmare to work with.

 

The very best thing that he could do for the USA and the world, is to resign and go back to bankrupting contractors who work for him, but even they have caught on that he is not to be trusted.

 

On 1/25/2020 at 9:33 AM, giddyup said:

It was the tyrannical Sadam that kept a lid on the sectarian violence. You can't force democracy on a country.

Exactly. Just like Gaddafi and Libya. When the civil war there broke out in Libya, i remember telling my son 'It will not end well' History, Iraq and Afghanistan all pointed to this. Pity our politicians thought otherwise. And Europe in particular has had to live with the fallout from these disasters. 

Troll post reported and removed.  

 

18 hours ago, giddyup said:

The US has a pretty good history of lying presidents, hard pushed to say who was the biggest liar.

Why are you upset at the USA?

18 hours ago, giddyup said:

The US has been happy to prop up other dictatorships when it suited them, bloody hypocrites.

Relax!  Tell us what countries politicians do you worship or admire.

Edited January 26, 20206 yr by mike787

There are actually posters that support the US presence in Iraq?

 

If you find yourself to be one of these people...you may want to realize what kinda person you really are..you know in terms of..being human..

12 hours ago, billd766 said:

Sadly for you, it doesn't matter what you favour should happen to the US military worldwide. That is down to the US government and "(Deity" preserve us all) the POTUS, Donald J Trump who seems to change his mind more often than his underwear.

 

He scares more people in the world as he interferes in military matters with a clue what he is doing. He has p*ssed off so many allies who have supported the USA since 1941 and even they have no idea what he will do tomorrow let alone the rest of the week.

 

He makes long term military and diplomacy a nightmare to work with.

 

The very best thing that he could do for the USA and the world, is to resign and go back to bankrupting contractors who work for him, but even they have caught on that he is not to be trusted.

 

"Allies that supported the US since 1941" this line alone stands out as an indicator of the lack of understanding of the poster. Just another anti-American post by a leftist.

1 minute ago, Solinvictus said:

What does his home country have to do with the thorough and valid points of their post regarding US foreign policy. @ThaiFelix

 

Sky must be green again?

Plenty, as often the most virulent American haters don't like to discuss if they have reaped benefit from the USA, they hide either this fact, or the fact they come from absolute powerless and weakness, even for self defense, the question was posed to you? Are you this persons knight?

The discussion here should be about US reaction, Iraqi politics, the engineering of withdraw, the future of Iraq. Instead its liberal group think: Orangman bad! I hate the USA!, and revisionist numbskull history for wannabe anarco-socialists. As usual.

Off topic trolling posts and the replies have been removed. 

15 hours ago, Sujo said:

im sure you think its ok for the US to beg for other countries to helo with their wars.

My own view is that the USA should totally withdraw from Europe, and leave NATO, additionally that all forces should be pulled from Iraq and Afghanistan. Are we in agreement?

On 1/25/2020 at 11:31 AM, WalkingOrders said:

Re the Russians developing weapons rendering the US a second rate power. Simply untrue laughably so. 

Russian hypersonic cruise missile.. mach 9    US still using museum grade slow 'tomohawk' easily shot down by cheap airdefenses.   Russian S-400 superior to Patriot , Egypt, Turkey, India, all lining up to get it, no one wants the patriot pos.  US has F-22, F-35 but they are only stealth if no eexternal fuel tank and minimal munitions, which makes them short range abd then they'll get hit on the ground by smethig liketheFateh-110.  After billions spent on US bases in gulf highly vulnerable, when the iranians attacked alasad the americans had to seek shelter in saddam era bunkers because they hadn't constructed their own.  US spent billions on uparmouring road vehicles, useless in conventional warfare.

On 1/25/2020 at 9:28 PM, WalkingOrders said:

Just out of curiousity, do you think that Donald Trump is surrounded by people who support withdrawal? Is it your belief that one of the two parties in the USA support withdrawing? Do you think its the Democrats position? Have you ever listened to other anti-globalist nationalists or paleoconservatives who supported Trump? Do you have a general understanding of Trumps stated policy objectives and positions, as opposed to say Neoconservatives neoliberals? The two headed coin of the US foreign policy consensus? Have any understanding of the blowback Trump received from defense, and intel bureaucratic establishment for daring to challenge this consensus? You think all this argument and against Trump is simply about the man?  You  recall the backlash about claims that Trump was against NATO, or wanted total mideast withdraw? You think he operates unconstrained by the establishment. You see, the Left are the ones supporting this Neocons arose from the left , they brought the Iraq war, it is a consensus of policy elites. The policy you support is what its all about. You think a guy like Bernie, can control the monster? Or Warren...shes part of it. Trump is the only challenge to a think tank, elitist press, bureucratic agency monster... military/industrial/owned press complex in 25 years...

But you dont know that. You are against a guy who they accused of being a Russian spy why? For challenging long held assumptions on NATO, for giving even small consideration to changing relations with Russia, for challenging China. For exposing the intel community of the USA over their power... so powerful they tried to take him out. Now the ex intel heads work for the same press, as propagandists....but you think Trump is the bad guy?

Well then why has there been no withdrawel ? instead he gets deeper into the iraq quagmire

3 minutes ago, pkspeaker said:

Russian hypersonic cruise missile.. mach 9    US still using museum grade slow 'tomohawk' easily shot down by cheap airdefenses.   Russian S-400 superior to Patriot , Egypt, Turkey, India, all lining up to get it, no one wants the patriot pos.  US has F-22, F-35 but they are only stealth if no eexternal fuel tank and minimal munitions, which makes them short range abd then they'll get hit on the ground by smethig liketheFateh-110.  After billions spent on US bases in gulf highly vulnerable, when the iranians attacked alasad the americans had to seek shelter in saddam era bunkers because they hadn't constructed their own.  US spent billions on uparmouring road vehicles, useless in conventional warfare.

And the source for the claim that Russia has hypersonic nuclear missiles is none other than Vladimir Putin. I guess for some people, he's a reliable source. 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, WalkingOrders said:

Plenty, as often the most virulent American haters don't like to discuss if they have reaped benefit from the USA, they hide either this fact, or the fact they come from absolute powerless and weakness, even for self defense, the question was posed to you? Are you this persons knight?

Got some exciting news for you. THis is an open forum. If you require a response from a particular poster, that's what PMs are for.

21 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

Glad to hear it! please join me in my quest to have the USA withdraw all forces from the middle east, and Europe. And kindly don't ask for any assistance if you can help it. America First! 

You might first want to recruit Donald Trump. The US now has more forces in the region than it did when Trump took office.

12 minutes ago, pkspeaker said:

Well then why has there been no withdrawel ? instead he gets deeper into the iraq quagmire

Read my post again  and answer your own question. Please do not make me have to slow to a crawl here in my explanation of the concept of Presidential constraint.

Off topic deflection/trolling posts about incidents in Libya have been removed. 

10 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

Read my post again  and answer your own question. Please do not make me have to slow to a crawl here in my explanation of the concept of Presidential constraint.

There is no constraint,he is the Commander IC.  He gives theorder and it has to be done.  He would not face a coup. He talks this talk because he knows the alt+right sentment is high amoung his supporters so he is leading you on, but ultimatly he is a deep state stooge.

Edited January 27, 20206 yr by pkspeaker