Defence at Senate trial says ousting Trump would be 'massive interference' in election

By David Morgan and Richard Cowan

 

The U.S. Capitol is seen at night, on the fourth day of the Senate impeachment trial of U.S. President Donald Trump, in Washington, U.S., January 24, 2020. REUTERS/Erin Scott

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Lawyers for U.S. President Donald Trump told his Senate impeachment trial on Saturday that Democrats' efforts to remove the president from office would set a "very, very dangerous" precedent in an election year.

 

White House Counsel Pat Cipollone, the head of the defence team, told senators they would be denying voters their right to give their opinion on Trump at the Nov. 3 presidential election if they found him guilty and ousted him now.

 

In only the third presidential impeachment trial in U.S. history, Democrats argued earlier this week that Trump should be removed for encouraging Ukraine to interfere in the election by pressuring its leader to dig up dirt on former Vice President Joe Biden, a leading 2020 Democratic presidential contender.

 

The defence tried to turn that election interference line against the Democrats in its opening argument on Saturday by warning against removing a president less than 10 months before Americans vote on whether to give him a second term.

 

"For all their talk about election interference ... they're here to perpetrate the most massive interference in an election in American history, and we can't allow that to happen. It would violate our Constitution. It would violate our history. It would violate our obligations to the future," he said in a session that ran two hours, far shorter that the Democratic arguments of the preceding days.

 

The Democratic-led House of Representatives impeached Trump last month on charges of abuse of power and obstruction of Congress, setting the stage for the trial in the Republican-led Senate.

 

Trump is expected to be acquitted in the Senate, where a two-thirds vote is required to convict and remove a president from office. No Republican senator has voiced any support for his ouster.

 

Democrats rejected Cipollone's concerns about impeaching a president in an election year.

 

"They argue that we must not impeach the president and remove him from office, because this would upset the election, and after all, there's another election coming up. That argument would say that the impeachment process does not belong in the Constitution," said Representative Jerrold Nadler, part of the team that presented the House case.

 

While the main thrust of the defence's argument on Saturday was to warn about the consequences of ejecting Trump from the White House, his lawyers also tried to chip away at the Democrats' portrayal of a president who put U.S. national security goals at risk by trying to enlist a foreign country to help his own political career.

 

A major focus of the Democrats' case is a phone call last July in which Trump pressed Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy to investigate Biden on unsubstantiated corruption allegations.

 

Democrats contend that Trump was trying to find dirt on Biden and his son Hunter Biden, who had served on the board of a Ukrainian gas company, to help the president win a second term.

 

Democratic Representative Adam Schiff, the head of the prosecution, told Senators this week that the campaign of pressure on Ukraine was a "corrupt scheme" in which Trump also temporarily froze almost $400 million in military aid to Ukraine.

 

'VERY, VERY CONSEQUENTIAL'

 

Cipollone said removing Trump and taking him off the ballot in November would mean having to "tear up all of the ballots across this country on your own initiative, take that decision away from the American people."

 

"They are asking you to do something very, very consequential and, I would submit to you ... very, very dangerous," he said.

 

The articles of impeachment -- or formal charges -- against Trump call not only for his removal from office but also his "disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honour, trust, or profit under the United States."

 

Schiff wrote on Twitter that the defence was trying to deflect from discussing what witnesses have described as Trump's pressure campaign against Ukraine.

 

"They don't contest the facts of Trump's scheme. They're trying to deflect, distract from, and distort the truth. And they are continuing to cover it up by blocking documents and witnesses," he wrote.

 

Trump denies any wrongdoing. He wrote on Twitter on Saturday: "Any fair minded person watching the Senate trial today would be able to see how unfairly I have been treated and that this is indeed the totally partisan Impeachment Hoax that EVERYBODY, including the Democrats, truly knows it is. This should never be allowed to happen again!"

 

Mike Purpura, part of Trump's team, said most of the witnesses who testified in the House inquiry that led to Trump's impeachment had never actually spoken to the president.

 

Democrats counter that argument by saying the only reason the Senate did not hear from first-hand witnesses, such as former National Security Adviser John Bolton, was because Trump blocked them from testifying.

 

In wrapping up the prosecution's opening arguments on Friday, Schiff urged Republican senators to show "real political courage" and subpoena witnesses and new documents.

 

Trump's defence said on Saturday that subpoenas issued by Democratic-run committees for witnesses and documents in the inquiry were not valid, alleging that the probe itself lacked authority.

 

"All of those subpoenas were invalid," lawyer Patrick Philbin said. "That was the reason for not responding to them."

 

No president has ever been removed through impeachment, a mechanism the nation's founders devised to oust a president for treason, bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanours. One, Richard Nixon, resigned in the face of a looming impeachment.

 

(Reporting by Richard Cowan and David Morgan; Additional reporting by Makini Brice; Writing by Alistair Bell; Editing by Scott Malone and Daniel Wallis)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-01-26

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‘Defence at Senate trial says ousting Trump would be 'massive interference' in election’

 

 

Which is an activity that must be reserved for the Russians.

 

 

18 minutes ago, rooster59 said:

VERY, VERY CONSEQUENTIAL'

.........The articles of impeachment -- or formal charges -- against Trump call not only call for his removal from office but also his "disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honour, trust, or profit under the United States."

Why would anyone want Trump to hold another office?  POTUS has no government or political experience.

Always amazes me when Trump talks about Hunter Biden getting a job in the Ukraine with no experience because his father used his political power. 

Well Mr. Trump, you got your current job with no experience whatsoever because of republican fundraisers by political big wigs and duping the public and the GOP with lies.  

Pot calling the kettle black

Peace

Then mr trump you might consider honoring the oath of office try a little unity instead of division stop stabbing our allies in the back  take and act on advice by experts in their fields try treating others with respect and for heaven sake stop breaking the law that beeing said imo with trump gone there would be a lot less disruption 

54 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

Why would anyone want Trump to hold another office?  POTUS has no government or political experience.

Always amazes me when Trump talks about Hunter Biden getting a job in the Ukraine with no experience because his father used his political power. 

Well Mr. Trump, you got your current job with no experience whatsoever because of republican fundraisers by political big wigs and duping the public and the GOP with lies.  

Pot calling the kettle black

Peace

Not to be missed out on getting jobs without experience; Ivanka and Jared. 

It was a rigged Electoral College that put Trump in office not the votes of the citizens. Corruption is at its highest in USA politics and the citizens are still ambivalent. 

Interference in election. Wasn't it what Trump was trying to do? So the Republicans finally recognize that it was bad.

Edited January 26, 20206 yr by candide

1 hour ago, rooster59 said:

The articles of impeachment -- or formal charges -- against Trump call not only for his removal from office but also his "disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honour, trust, or profit under the United States."

Sounds good.  Any chance of throwing in some prison time?

Perhaps when this nest of snakes is cleaned out the redactions will be removed from the Mueller report and he'll be charged with treason.  By then he'll probably get in his private jet and go to be where he belongs: Russia.

Maybe Barr will go with him.

 

 

2 hours ago, rooster59 said:

ousting Trump would be 'massive interference' in election

That was the whole point.

12 minutes ago, rabas said:

That was the whole point.

Don’t worry. Putin will come to his rescue as it’s in Russia’s national interest to keep Trump in place. He (Trump) leaves a trail of diplomatic destruction across the world, alienating himself from his allies and causing him to be shunned by other world leaders. This will just weaken NATO and western democracy. China is just gleefully waiting by the sidelines. 

1 hour ago, Gweiloman said:

Don’t worry. Putin will come to his rescue as it’s in Russia’s national interest to keep Trump in place. He (Trump) leaves a trail of diplomatic destruction across the world, alienating himself from his allies and causing him to be shunned by other world leaders. This will just weaken NATO and western democracy. China is just gleefully waiting by the sidelines. 

trail of diplomatic destruction across the world,

 

Whoa. Soleimani was diplomatic. Who knew? Syrian chemical weapons, and research facilities were too. Putin was not happy, was he? Putin/Russia have been interfering is US elections since as least Reagan's time. Both Reagan and Trump strongly oppose Irani adventurism, Putin's love child.

 

I'm far more worried about our own citizenry blindly buying into all the political, MSM Russian collusion nonsense, which was initially targeted at disrupting the 2016 election.  You're on the wrong side of the fence, looking the wrong way, for the wrong reasons, at the wrong time. You need to start looking at who put you there and why.

Edited January 26, 20206 yr by rabas

Welcome again to the 45 cult of personality bubble world of alternative facts. Back in the old days, there was only one set of facts and the vast majority of people could be persuaded with reason and evidence to agree on those real world facts. But we are way beyond that. Face it people, the acquittal by the republican majority senators is preordained and the only purpose of this defense of the president reality tv show is provide talking points for the republican senators that come from more purple states. As 45 often tweets -- SAD.

 

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/01/25/trumps-lawyers-are-absolutely-entitled-their-own-facts/

 

(Headline and first three sentences only included)

 

Quote

 

Trump’s lawyers are absolutely entitled to their own facts

 

For three days, impeachment managers presented the facts to the Senate. On Saturday, the president’s lawyers presented the alternative facts.

 

As outlined in two hours on the Senate floor, theirs is a world in which Ukraine interfered in the U.S. election in 2016; where the FBI and intelligence community are disreputable; where the United States, not Europe, gives Ukraine the bulk of its foreign aid; where there was no quid pro quo with Ukraine and where a “transcript” of President Trump’s call conclusively proves it; where the halt of military aid to Ukraine was routine, and where Ukrainian officials didn’t even know about it; where the president was barred from impeachment proceedings; and where Robert Mueller totally vindicated Trump.

 

 

Edited January 26, 20206 yr by Jingthing

Violation of the Constitution is grounds for termination-argument over

3 hours ago, asiaexpat said:

It was a rigged Electoral College that put Trump in office not the votes of the citizens. Corruption is at its highest in USA politics and the citizens are still ambivalent. 

 

of course if electoral college got Clinton elected (even though Trump wins popular vote), EC would be the most glorious and fair system known to humankind. ????

53 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

of course if electoral college got Clinton elected (even though Trump wins popular vote), EC would be the most glorious and fair system known to humankind. ????

No it wouldn't have. 

But it would have helped build a bipartisan movement to advance a constitutional amendment to get rid of that relic. The electoral college not HRC. 

1 hour ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

of course if electoral college got Clinton elected (even though Trump wins popular vote), EC would be the most glorious and fair system known to humankind. ????

Even trump doesnt like it.

3 hours ago, rabas said:

trail of diplomatic destruction across the world,

 

Whoa. Soleimani was diplomatic. Who knew? Syrian chemical weapons, and research facilities were too. Putin was not happy, was he? Putin/Russia have been interfering is US elections since as least Reagan's time. Both Reagan and Trump strongly oppose Irani adventurism, Putin's love child.

 

I'm far more worried about our own citizenry blindly buying into all the political, MSM Russian collusion nonsense, which was initially targeted at disrupting the 2016 election.  You're on the wrong side of the fence, looking the wrong way, for the wrong reasons, at the wrong time. You need to start looking at who put you there and why.

Cancelling state visit to Denmark at the last minute because they won’t sell him Greenland. Touching the Finnish President’s knee and talking over him in a question from a reporter. Insulting the British Ambassador to the US. 
Need I go on?

Let him be the president of the moon.

6 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

The TDS is strong ???? in this thread so far... 

 

MAGA 

Yes still babbling about Russia. It really is a sickness.

8 hours ago, rooster59 said:

White House Counsel Pat Cipollone, the head of the defence team, told senators they would be denying voters their right to give their opinion on Trump at the Nov. 3 presidential election if they found him guilty and ousted him now.

????

9 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Defence at Senate trial says ousting Trump would be 'massive interference' in election

It would be ,DT is the Only President that did any good for the country ,Ok he's a bit off a Rogue but he calls a spade a spade ,Not like all the no hopers before him . DT is putting the country first and keeping it going ahead. 

I have never seen such disgusting behaviour by the opposition in American History. They were trying to get rid of him the day he was elected, and here was me thinking that democracy involved voting someone into the position, going along with them for 4 years, then having another vote to see if anyone more popular had appeared on the scene. Pathetic, presently the least democratic country in the world ????

42 minutes ago, digger70 said:

It would be ,DT is the Only President that did any good for the country ,Ok he's a bit off a Rogue but he calls a spade a spade ,Not like all the no hopers before him . DT is putting the country first and keeping it going ahead. 

 

He's a construction guy....he's not gong too be curtsying ad saying 'no I insist...after you'...LOL.

34 minutes ago, phantomfiddler said:

here was me thinking that democracy involved voting someone into the position,

Yet only 46% of the electorate voted for Trump, and 48% voted for HRC.  HRC received 2,840,000 more votes that Trump and yet "lost" the election. 

Your thinking about democracy is correct, just about the wrong person - 555

39 minutes ago, phantomfiddler said:

They were trying to get rid of him the day he was elected

POTUS started lying the day after his inauguration.  Saying his inauguration crowd was "the largest ever" , "Bigger than Obama's" 

Both lies. 

Peace

2 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

Yet only 46% of the electorate voted for Trump, and 48% voted for HRC. 

There's always a silver lining.

"Defence at Senate trial says ousting Trump would be 'massive interference' in election"

This is a defence?

 

8 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

The TDS is strong ???? in this thread so far... 

 

MAGA 

"TDS" is a term used by those who can't use facts nor argue using critical thinking. It's basically name calling and is just an RCH shy of trolling.

This has nothing to do with the 2016 election. It's exactly the same as getting into a college then getting kicked out when caught cheating.

20 minutes ago, J Town said:

This has nothing to do with the 2016 election. It's exactly the same as getting into a college then getting kicked out when caught cheating.

Yes and if he was to be removed, we get Pence, arguably much more right wing than 45. This isn't about ideology or policy. It's about his high crimes and misdemeanors. 

Just now, Jingthing said:

Yes and if he was to be removed, we get Pence, arguably much more right wing than 45. This isn't about ideology or policy. It's about his high crimes and misdemeanors. 

No. If Trump goes, Pence will be right behind him as he's been implicated just as much as 45. Next in line is Nancy Pelosi.