I'm a Farang, wife passed away and want to transfer condo?

[newnative]

   At this point I think you should just, if you haven't already done so, make a new Will with your son as beneficiary of the condo.

[SoSoCNX]

Forget lawyers, Just take your son and go to land office 

[Max69xl]

On 2/3/2020 at 6:49 PM, Syke1911 said:

The problem seems to be the condo is co-owned by the deceased. This must be rectified so that I am the sole owner, before I can transfer to my son. 

Why can't you go to the land office and ask them what documents you need? Why do you need a lawyer? 

[emptypockets]

On 2/3/2020 at 6:26 PM, Peterw42 said:

OP, how much is the approx value of the condo. A percentage of the 150k would be the land office tranfer fee. The tranfer fee may be most of the amount.

 

How have you achieved joint ownership of the condo, is it company owned ? You mention 51%, is that the building quota (making it a Thai title condo) ? Could ba as easy as changing the company directors names

 

I imagine family chart refers to family tree, show relationship to son etc.

What company are you referring to?

[emptypockets]

On 2/3/2020 at 8:09 PM, Peterw42 said:

OP, it appears you and your wife owned 49% of a company that owns the Condo and a Thai person owns the other 51%, Is that the case ?

What is your relationship to the majority Thai company shareholder ?

 

If the 51% majority share holder is co-operative, it should just be a matter of transferring your 49% of the company to your son, your son would then have the same ownership structure that you and your wife had.

 

In reality you are looking at the transfer of ownership/control of a company, that you own 49% of.

 

By chance, is the 51% majority owner also your Thai lawyer ?

 

 

You make no sense. Where do you get the idea that the OP and his wife formed a company to buy a condo. The percentages he refers to are the requirements for a condo building to be 51%  Thai owned to be legal.

[Bundooman]

I know nothing of these procedures, but one thing that glares out is the Decree Nisi.

 

Maybe he is referring to perhaps a previous marriage you may have had, either in your home country or here in Thailand, (or elsewhere for that matter).

 

It may possibly be required in a Thai court to prove that you are legally married to your recently departed lady. 

 

In any case, you would need a Decree Absolute which finalises the divorce.

 

Just athought, good luck.

[Delight]

 This is my understanding of this situation

1) The condo is in a Thai company name.

2) You reference 51% which suggests that originally you and your then wife each owned 25.5% of the share allocation. Is that  what you think?

This to my mind is illegal. Foreigners can only own 49%. That is total foreign ownership is 49%. 

Of course your wife could have been a Thai-You do not specify

Questions :

 Do you control 100% of the voting  rights?

Did your wife leave a will ?. If so are you the main beneficiary?

It seems to me that you need a lawyer who is an expert in company law.

Such laws will deal with your circumstance.

That said -if you control 100% of the voting rights then you can  possibly transfer that which you own to your son. The allocation that his mother owned becomes irrelevant.

It is the voting rights that count.

Get a decent lawyer would be my advice.

 

 

 

 

[donmuang37]

I don't understand Peterw42's post because the OP has said nothing about a Thai company, but has said no Thai people are involved.  He also indicated that 51% of the building is is Thai owned and thus 49% is available for foreign ownership. So the process would appear to be:

1. Transfer ownership from joint with his wife to sole ownership to him, and then

2. Transfer ownership from him to his farang son.

 

I'd say, get a 2nd opinion & price from another lawyer.  Good luck!

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, emptypockets said:

What company are you referring to?

Op was referring to his condo as a 51% thai majority owned condo, which most would take to means a condo in the Thai 51% quota, the only way a non-thai can own a condo in the 51% thai quota is via a company.

 

To quote the OP,

"The condo is worth 3M THB or so. It It is a Thai majority owned condo"

"The ownership of the condo is majority Thai."

 

I was asking the OP what he meant by a 51% thai owned condo, later clarified as he appears to be referring to the quota for the block,not the ownership of his individual condo.

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Peterw42

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, donmuang37 said:

I don't understand Peterw42's post because the OP has said nothing about a Thai company, but has said no Thai people are involved.  He also indicated that 51% of the building is is Thai owned and thus 49% is available for foreign ownership. So the process would appear to be:

1. Transfer ownership from joint with his wife to sole ownership to him, and then

2. Transfer ownership from him to his farang son.

 

I'd say, get a 2nd opinion & price from another lawyer.  Good luck!

OP was initially referring to his individual condo as being "51% Thai owned", I misunderstood this mean that the OP owned a condo in the 51% Thai quota via a company.

 

[NanLaew]

On 2/3/2020 at 6:18 PM, Golden Triangle said:

Decree absolute is only relevant if you were divorced, so as far as I can see that is irrelevant.

 

Family chart no idea, maybe someone else can help on that one.

 

 

Agreed. Divorce related paperwork is non-applicable here and the family chart is a total unknown.

 

On 2/3/2020 at 6:23 PM, steven100 said:

speak to a cheaper lawyer ... 

Or at least one that hasn't done a copy/paste on documentary requirements without checking if any of them don't apply to the OP's circumstances.

[Golden Triangle]

@Syke1911 When you find out what a family chart is could you tell us on here please, thanks.

[ChaiyaTH]

150K for a straightforward case like this sounds like waaaayyy too much. Get a different lawyer, if you ask me, this should cost you less than 20-30K baht.
Worse case you should easily save 50% of the quoted costs.

Edited February 5, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[Fairynuff]

He and his wife bought a condo. It’s in joint names. That’s the end of that part of the story.

The “lawyer” is just a scammer.

If I was in this situation my first move would be to try the land office and see what they say. Have a trusted Thai friend with you if at all possible.

Make a Thai will if you can, or if you think you need it.

In BKK I went to a lawyer recommended by a very good Thai friend. It cost me 20k which I know is high but I felt it was worth it. 

[dksharron]

A few years ago, a Foreign friend's mother died.  Both he and his foreign mother were on their condo land deeds.  Foreign owners, 49% of condo allotment.   In order for him to sell the condo, he needed to first transfer her off the land deed and then transfer to the new buyer.  It was a long day and he had to pay a lot at the land office.  

 

In your case, take a Thai-speaking friend into the and office and ask a few questions. NO LAWYER

 

First ask about transferring to your son upon your death, from your and your wife's wills.  Ask about the fees.  I know for a Thai person to transfer property to their children after their death, there are some fees,  5,000 - 10,000 for a small house of two million baht land office price, but nothing outrageous.   My friend's widow's son did this about six years ago.

 

Next, ask about transferring your wife off the land deed now.  I think you will have the fees my friend had, which were normal land office transfer fees, thus very costly.

 

Also find out about the difference in fees between

 

1. Your wife's will leaving her share of the condo to you.  Husband and wife, I hope would be different than my friend's situation mother to son.  

 

2. Your wife's will leaving her share of the condo to your son.   And then your will doing the same thing

 

Then create wills accordingly.

 

I have found the land office in Pattaya always happy to provide assistance in situations like yours.

 

[samuttodd]

Couldn't he sell his interest in the home to his son for 1 baht... Then his son would own it outright.  

[Delight]

On 2/3/2020 at 7:20 PM, Syke1911 said:

 

 

The ownership of the condo is majority Thai.

 

 

 

 

 This  makes no sense.

When you say 'Majority Thai owned ' do you mean the condo is in a Thai Company ?

In which case what is your share allocation ?

Who has the voting rights?

 

This  issue can never be resolved until you detail these 2 points.

 

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Delight
spelling

[rech]

These lawyers working with foreigners must be millionaire with so many weak people ready to pay this kind of money for no reason...

 

[steven100]

3 hours ago, samuttodd said:

Couldn't he sell his interest in the home to his son for 1 baht... Then his son would own it outright.  

bingo   !     then the title get put in his sons name at minimal cost.

[samuttodd]

1 minute ago, steven100 said:

bingo   !     then the title get put in his sons name at minimal cost.

That is what I'd do.

[Fairynuff]

3 hours ago, Delight said:

 This  makes no sense.

When you say 'Majority Thai owned ' do you mean the condo is in a Thai Company ?

In which case what is your share allocation ?

Who has the voting rights?

 

This  issue can never be resolved until you detail these 2 points.

 

 

It means that the majority of condos in the building are owned by Thai people. At no point did he ever say a company was involved, as was pointed out way back in the thread.

[ThomasThBKK]

1 hour ago, steven100 said:

bingo   !     then the title get put in his sons name at minimal cost.

Not how any of it works...

 

They'll simply use what they expect it to cost at the land office.

[inThailand]

1 hour ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Not how any of it works...

 

They'll simply use what they expect it to cost at the land office.

Yup. The Land Dept knows everyone reports a lower sales price than reality. This is why they use the assessed value to calculate fees. I use 5% as an estimate. Any attorney can go down to the Land Dept and find out the condo's assessed value. Assessments are suppose to be done every 4 years, but this LOS.

 

If the son is not interested in keeping the condo why pay the Land Dept fees twice, once to him and once to the new buyer?

[Suradit69]

On 2/3/2020 at 6:12 PM, Syke1911 said:

Well if I pass away, the condo would go into some sort of Thai probate court from what I gather and my son would need to deal with that process which I'd like to avoid.

 

On 2/3/2020 at 6:18 PM, Golden Triangle said:

Family chart no idea, maybe someone else can help on that one

If he dies intestate, the order of succession of statutory heirs is shown below .  He could make a Thai will, but if his child is not living in Thailand at the time it will  mean he would need to spend more time in Thailand dealing with probate as well as probably trying to sell the condo. The child would need to document the death of both parents if the property was still in both names and prove no new spouse exists since if the father remarried she would be at the top of the list of heirs if no will exists.

 

I think he would find it less expensive and less of a burden to the child if he transfers the ownership now. I see no reason to say his lawyer is a crook, aside from the usual default to Thai bashing.

 

 

Quote

 

In Thailand, there are six classes of statutory heir namely:

1. Descendants;

2. Parents;

3. Brothers and sisters of full blood;

4. Brothers and sisters of half blood

5. Grandfathers and Grandmothers;

6. Uncles and Aunts.

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

The surviving spouse is also considered as a statutory heir and the share of the surviving spouse depends on who she/he concurs. If the decedent left several wives who acquired their legal status prior to the effectivity of the Thai Civil and Commercial Code, all wives shall inherit equally. However, as between the wives, the secondary wife is entitled to only one half of the share to which she is entitled.

The statutory heirs of the same class shall be entitled to equal shares under the laws of Thailand. If there is only one heir in that class, he or she gets the whole portion. The share of the surviving spouse shall be in accordance with the following:

1. If the decedent left a spouse and children, the spouse is entitled to 50% of the estate and the children are entitled for the remaining 50% which shall be equally distributed among them.

2. If the decedent left his spouse and parents, the spouse is entitled to 50% and the parents to the other 50%;

3. If the decedent left his spouse and his brothers and sisters of full blood,  the spouse is entitled to 50% and the other 50% goes to his brothers and sisters;

4. If the decedent left his spouse and heirs in classes 4, 5, 6 (brothers and sisters of full blood, grandparents, uncles and aunts, then the spouse will inherit 2/3s of the estate and the remaining heirs will be entitled to the other 1/3 which will be divided in equal shares among them. The surviving spouse takes the whole estate in the absence of any other statutory heir.

Under the Thai laws, when upon the death of a person, he left no statutory heir; the estate of the deceased person shall pass to the State, subject to the rights of the decedent’s creditors.

 

https://www.thailandlaw.org/intestate-succession-in-thailand.html

 

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Suradit69

[Langsuan Man]

Mods close this thread the OP has ghosted and: