O-A to avoid insurance

[Peter Denis]

2 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Same as AU. They stopped providing non imm O based on retirement several years back. Only non O-A. BTW I just had check of Thai Embassy Canberra. There requirement for the non O-A appears to insist upon insurance from Thai company.

I couldn't see the option to have non Thai insurance and no mention of the "certificate" 

As usual with thai embassies/consultates, the requirements can differ.

http://www.thaiembassy.org/sydney/en/other/96010-NON-IMMIGRANT-VISA.html

The Sidney consulate does require thai-insurance but - in contrast with the Canberra embassy - ALSO accepts

> An original copy of the health insurance policy from an Australian insurance company

[rickudon]

11 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Two questions:

 

1. Were your 2 married friends (to a thai national I presume) staying here on an OA extension for reason of marriage?

I ask because many OA Visa holders married to a thai national, were 'tricked' by their local IO to apply for an extension for reason of retirement.  The OA-retirement extension requires much less paper-work to process and was therefore often pushed by 'lazy' IOs to OA extension applicants (even though the financials to be proven for that one were way higher than for a marriage-extension).

 

2. Irrespective whether their previous OA extension was for reason of retirement or for reason of marriage, the IO regulations foresee that when applying for an O or an OA extension you can pick the one of your choice (providing you meet the requirements of course). 

However, there are a couple of rogue IOs (e.g. Petchabun, Nonthaburi) that - incorrectly - insist that an applicant needs health-insurance for any OA extension.  They are blatantly wrong, as the PoliceOrder clearly stipulates that it is only required for OA - retirement extensions.

Therefor my 2nd question:

What was the IO your 2 friends applied for the OA - marriage extension?

 

Note: On hindsight your 80-old friend who inquired for a thai HI-policy and was not able to get one (thai insurers do not issue them when +75 years of age or with pre-existing conditions), got the best deal.  He will not be bothered by the bogus thai health-insurance scam anymore when applying for extensions for his new Non Imm O - marriage Visa.  Your other friend got a far worse deal as he will find out in years to come.  Not only did he buy a worthless paper just to satisfy the whims of the local IO, but he will be confronted with yearly increasing premiums.  The annual premium at 83 years for a coverage of 400K in-patient is 380K (yes, you read that correctly the premium is almost same as the coverage the policy provides > MADNESS!) 

They were both on just the retirement extension i think. Most people who originally get OA visas do seem to be a bit more affluent, and so usually do it because easier. I'm not aware of anyone in Udon getting away with not paying for health insurance because they did a marriage extension - i suppose it is possible. One friend was renewing in early November before most people knew it was being applied retrospectively as well. He was not allowed to change anything and didn't have time to do anything else. I very much doubt that he will be renewing that Thai health insurance again - he will either get his own policy accepted, change to an 'O' or go back to the USA.

 

Udon Thani immigration is under new management and it isn't as nice as they used to be.

[Vascoda]

On 2/3/2020 at 8:13 PM, david_je said:

Before insurance requirement, why were people doing this for many years instead of extending at CW?

I don't know why people were doing this I can only tell you why I was doing it. 1. No visit to CW, TM30, 90-day report etc, chasing to obtain useless papers like bank statement, bank certification, etc, keeping 800K in a Thai bank, and all the hassles associated with that. 2. Unlimited entry/exit without any questions, 3. Easy to obtain in the US. Just send your application, three-months statements from my roth-IRA account, a county police report obtained for free, and a free physcial from my doctor paid for by my insurance. 4. Send the package to Washington, DC and get the visa afer one and half week guranteed. 5. Once obtained, it is good for two years, 6. Money stayed in my roth account earning 20% last year.  The best visa for a frequent traveller over 50 years before they ruined it with health insurance requirements. 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Vascoda

[Langsuan Man]

10 hours ago, Vascoda said:

5. Once obtained, it is good for two years,

And I wonder how they are going to check the insurance requirement when you try and use that second year entry ?

 

One of the many unintended consequences of bureaucrats making rules about subjects they don't understand 

[Peter Denis]

1 hour ago, Langsuan Man said:

And I wonder how they are going to check the insurance requirement when you try and use that second year entry ?

...

The health-insurance requirement makes it more difficult for border-immigration.  When somebody on a post-Oct 31 issued OA Visa re-enters Thailand, they cannot simply stamp them in for the full-year the non-expired Visa normally provides.  They also have to look for the 'Embassy insurance note' with the date of the insurance-policy validity.  And you will be stamped in for whatever is shorter: the permission to stay based on your OA Visa OR the insurance-policy validity date.  

That's why it is recommended when you request your insurance-company to fill in the Foreign Insurance Certificate stating that you meet the thai IO health-insurance requirements, to have the policy expiry date extended to 2 years.  Then the thai embassy on issuing the Visa will add that 2 year 'Embassy insurance note' and it will allow you to make use of the 2nd year permission to stay that an OA Visa can provide.

>> Anyway, that's the theory how it should work.  But would be very interested to hear of people that have actually done it, but for sure there aren't many of those as the thai authorities successfully succeeded in making applications for an OA Visa as difficult as possible by requiring the mandatory health-insurance (and the near-impossible way to get that because of the Foreign Insurance Certificate, that many insurers refuse to sign as it refers to thai legislation they are not familiar with).

[Langsuan Man]

21 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

That's why it is recommended when you request your insurance-company to fill in the Foreign Insurance Certificate stating that you meet the thai IO health-insurance requirements, to have the policy expiry date extended to 2 years.

Ergo the rub with the whole system, Thailand can recommend all they want, doesn't mean any insurance company is going to sign a certificate that indicates that they will insure you for more than the term of your policy (usually one year)

 

How can the insurer be sure that you will obtain a second year from them ?  They can't,  so they are not going to sign a form saying that they can read into the future 

[Peter Denis]

22 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

Ergo the rub with the whole system, Thailand can recommend all they want, doesn't mean any insurance company is going to sign a certificate that indicates that they will insure you for more than the term of your policy (usually one year)

 

How can the insurer be sure that you will obtain a second year from them ?  They can't,  so they are not going to sign a form saying that they can read into the future 

FYI > A German TVF-member posted he had an 'indefinite' travel-insurance policy that met the IO health-insurance requirements, and he was able to have his insurer sign and fill in the Foreign Insurance Certificate mentioning 2 years as Policy expiry date (he didn't chose to have them mention 'indefinite' as that might not be understood by IO).

Note: As he had a pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa, he did not use that FIC to apply for the Visa at the German thai Embassy (who would have to add the policy expiry note to the OA Visa in his passport).  He only requested the FIC (and got it) in order not be harassed at border-entry (this was in the early November days with the OA health-insurance chaos at BKK airport border-entry).

[Langsuan Man]

26 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

FYI > A German TVF-member posted he had an 'indefinite' travel-insurance policy that met the IO health-insurance requirements, and he was able to have his insurer sign and fill in the Foreign Insurance Certificate mentioning 2 years as Policy expiry date (he didn't chose to have them mention 'indefinite' as that might not be understood by IO).

Note: As he had a pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa, he did not use that FIC to apply for the Visa at the German thai Embassy (who would have to add the policy expiry note to the OA Visa in his passport).  He only requested the FIC (and got it) in order not be harassed at border-entry (this was in the early November days with the OA health-insurance chaos at BKK airport border-entry).

This German and one American who has a policy with a small insurance company and a friendly agent have been the only two success stories of getting the Foreign Insurance Certificate reported here at TV

[Peter Denis]

2 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

This German and one American who has a policy with a small insurance company and a friendly agent have been the only two success stories of getting the Foreign Insurance Certificate reported here at TV

I know of 2 more cases > a Belgian and a Canadian.

But of course I agree that it is close to impossible to get the FIC signed by your home-country insurer (the referral to thai legislation unknown to them, is an immediate turn-down) unless you have a very good or personal relation with your insurer or his agent.