20/4 Fasting

[UbonThani]

Done this for 4 weeks and lost 8kgs no exercise. No special diet just a mix of good stuff. Lasted 23,24 hours somedays and lowest is 17 hours. Even had beers and chips on weekend. I just have salt, water and black coffee until noon then try to wait til 3 or later to eat. The fasting is easier than I thought and coffee helps reduce hunger.

 

The next step is try carnivore plus 20/4. Start slowly and work into it.

[Straight8]

I hope you're not doing this everyday.. and unless you were over 250 pounds (125kg), that loss in that time span seems too much & unhealthy long term

[Tayaout]

I do the same for over a year now. I usually drink coffee with butter in the morning. Bone broth around 11h then main meal 1-2h later. 

 

It's much more healthy than eating the standard 6 meals a day since it promotes autophagy. However you will notice that your weight loss with plateau pretty soon. 

 

 

 

 

[bkk6060]

You are going to do this the rest of your life?

Otherwise, you will gain it all back.

[Moonlover]

Personally I prefer to enjoy my food (Mrs Moon is a great cook) and take plenty of exercise. Good for the mind as well as the body. But I do prefer to follow the 12 hour intermittent fast routine whenever possible.

 

Where does the 'standard 6 meals a day' come from @Tayaout?

 

 

Edited February 15, 2020 by Moonlover

[Tayaout]

9 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Personally I prefer to enjoy my food (Mrs Moon is a great cook) and take plenty of exercise. Good for the mind as well as the body. But I do prefer to follow the 12 hour intermittent fast routine whenever possible.

 

Where does the 'standard 6 meals a day' come from @Tayaout?

 

 

Breakfast, snack, lunch, snack, diner, snack. 

[villagefarang]

I am a fan of 20/4 fasting but have cheat days in an effort to be sociable. ????

[c18gmr]

40 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

You are going to do this the rest of your life?

Otherwise, you will gain it all back.

This isn’t true for IF as if you are doing it correctly you should still be consuming the correct number of calories. 
 

the main function is to stop the constant spiking of insulin, which actually allows your body to use its body fat for fuel. 
 

The carnivore or Keto versions help lose fat even faster as insulin is reduce even further with no /little carbs in the diet. 

[bkkcanuck8]

Quote

Done this for 4 weeks and lost 8kgs no exercise. No special diet just a mix of good stuff. Lasted 23,24 hours somedays and lowest is 17 hours. Even had beers and chips on weekend. I just have salt, water and black coffee until noon then try to wait til 3 or later to eat. The fasting is easier than I thought and coffee helps reduce hunger.

 

The next step is try carnivore plus 20/4. Start slowly and work into it.

Understand that when you put your body into starvation mode it will try to rationalize and get rid of unwanted excess weight etc. and become more efficient so you can survive longer.  Muscle is the most dense when it comes to weight so the priority will be to dispose of muscle mass and then fat (secondary priority).  So while you are getting rid of fat you are also getting rid of muscles.  The larger the muscle the more calories you will burn for normal daily exercise... So typically leg exercises (legs having the larger muscle) will consume more calories...  (a good run will do wonders if you don't injure yourself)...  In the end the starvation diet will lower your calorie count that you will be able to consume and not gain weight for a long time... which usually ends up in yo yo diet, gain more than you lost cycles.

[Denim]

1 hour ago, Tayaout said:

It's much more healthy than eating the standard 6 meals a day

 

6 meals a day ??? Who's standard is that ?

 

3 more like.

[justin case]

if you over 40, look it up, you only need 2 meals a day, no snacks

[Tayaout]

5 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

Understand that when you put your body into starvation mode it will try to rationalize and get rid of unwanted excess weight etc. and become more efficient so you can survive longer.  Muscle is the most dense when it comes to weight so the priority will be to dispose of muscle mass and then fat (secondary priority).  So while you are getting rid of fat you are also getting rid of muscles.  The larger the muscle the more calories you will burn for normal daily exercise... So typically leg exercises (legs having the larger muscle) will consume more calories...  (a good run will do wonders if you don't injure yourself)...  In the end the starvation diet will lower your calorie count that you will be able to consume and not gain weight for a long time... which usually ends up in yo yo diet, gain more than you lost cycles.

Don't confuse starvation and intermittent fasting. You can starve on 6 meals a day too. You could add some source to your post. 

 

[stephenterry]

14 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

Understand that when you put your body into starvation mode it will try to rationalize and get rid of unwanted excess weight etc. and become more efficient so you can survive longer.  Muscle is the most dense when it comes to weight so the priority will be to dispose of muscle mass and then fat (secondary priority).  So while you are getting rid of fat you are also getting rid of muscles.  The larger the muscle the more calories you will burn for normal daily exercise... So typically leg exercises (legs having the larger muscle) will consume more calories...  (a good run will do wonders if you don't injure yourself)...  In the end the starvation diet will lower your calorie count that you will be able to consume and not gain weight for a long time... which usually ends up in yo yo diet, gain more than you lost cycles.

That's incorrect science, or not fully explained. Sorry to intervene, no offence intended.

 

Fasting switches the metabolism. This makes sense, since protein is functional tissue and there is no point to burning useful tissue while fasting when there is plenty of fat around. So, no, most people do not 'burn' muscle during fasting. Rationale is that the human body is designed to prevent loss of life during a (starvation) fasting period, and muscle is needed for humans (to move) to obtain sustenance, fat isn't.

 

However, what some people could lose, if 50+, is the ready ability to build new muscle tissue while on a IF regime - or in my case it's bloody hard work; weight training is a critical benefit, and rebuilding muscle tissue is the rationale why most elderly people do need more protein than the daily recommended amount - but not overdoing it.

[spinner2020]

Been doing this since forever. I fast 20 hours every day and have just four one-hour 'zones' when I can eat. I call them “breakfast”, “lunch”, “tea” and “dinner”. Works for me.

[Tbone999]

41 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

That's incorrect science, or not fully explained. Sorry to intervene, no offence intended.

 

Fasting switches the metabolism. This makes sense, since protein is functional tissue and there is no point to burning useful tissue while fasting when there is plenty of fat around. So, no, most people do not 'burn' muscle during fasting. Rationale is that the human body is designed to prevent loss of life during a (starvation) fasting period, and muscle is needed for humans (to move) to obtain sustenance, fat isn't.

 

However, what some people could lose, if 50+, is the ready ability to build new muscle tissue while on a IF regime - or in my case it's bloody hard work; weight training is a critical benefit, and rebuilding muscle tissue is the rationale why most elderly people do need more protein than the daily recommended amount - but not overdoing it.

I'm no expert, but currently following the Rapid Fat Loss Diet by Lyle McDonald. He goes a long way into the science of dieting, and quoting from him, he says that the brain requires energy that can only be derived from a protein source, so if there is no protein intake from food, then that will be garnered from your muscles regardless of how much fat you have stored, which is why he quotes fat loss rather than weight loss. Another view anyway.

[Tayaout]

34 minutes ago, Tbone999 said:

I'm no expert, but currently following the Rapid Fat Loss Diet by Lyle McDonald. He goes a long way into the science of dieting, and quoting from him, he says that the brain requires energy that can only be derived from a protein source, so if there is no protein intake from food, then that will be garnered from your muscles regardless of how much fat you have stored, which is why he quotes fat loss rather than weight loss. Another view anyway.

The brain use glucose or ketone as fuel source. It uses mostly ketone when in a state of ketosis due to low to no carbs intake for several days.

 

Ketone are produced by the liver by converting fat. Since the body always need a small amount of glucose if the carbs intake is insufficient then the liver will convert proteine to glucose via gluconeogenesis.

 

Like previously said the body will use fat before proteine because in survival mode you need muscle to find food. It won't use muscle unless in an extreme state of starvation. 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2020 by Tayaout

[Iron Tongue]

How much do you weigh?  

Unless you exercise, you're losing muscle mass, not just fat.  

Are you keeping track of your body fat & muscle %?  You can lose more muscle than fat and end-up straining your body/heart even more by losing the wrong type of weight.

[Tayaout]

15 minutes ago, Iron Tongue said:

How much do you weigh?  

Unless you exercise, you're losing muscle mass, not just fat.  

Are you keeping track of your body fat & muscle %?  You can lose more muscle than fat and end-up straining your body/heart even more by losing the wrong type of weight.

I'm another thread he said he started keto as well. In the first couple weeks most weight loss is water. His weight loss will plateau soon unless he is starving himself (unlikely). 

[TigerandDog]

When I moved here in 2014 I was 93kgs. In 2016 I started Intermittent fasting, 16/8 method. This means 16 hours of fasting and an 8 hour eating window. I chose to make the eating window between 12 noon & 8.00 p.m.  I have 1 cup of coffee of a morning, no sugar, and then nothing until 12 noon when I have breakfast. Still eat around the same amount of food in the 8 hour window as I used to prior to starting IF. By the middle of 2017 I had lost 8kgs with absolutely no exercise involved. I took up cycling towards the end of 2017 and combined with the IF I have lost another 10kgs. All my cycling is done of a morning on an empty stomach, other than the coffee, which means I burn more body fat.

[TigerandDog]

34 minutes ago, Iron Tongue said:

How much do you weigh?  

Unless you exercise, you're losing muscle mass, not just fat.  

Are you keeping track of your body fat & muscle %?  You can lose more muscle than fat and end-up straining your body/heart even more by losing the wrong type of weight.

Not correct with regards to loss of muscle mass. Intermittent fasting puts your body into ketosis, which means that fat is burned for energy NOT muscle mass. There's a lot of scientific proof that this is correct and that as long as the bod remains in ketosis ( hence the keto diet too ) you will only burn fat.

[Tayaout]

10 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

Not correct with regards to loss of muscle mass. Intermittent fasting puts your body into ketosis, which means that fat is burned for energy NOT muscle mass. There's a lot of scientific proof that this is correct and that as long as the bod remains in ketosis ( hence the keto diet too ) you will only burn fat.

Intermittent fasting won't put you in ketosis unless you reduce your carbs. However, keto/carnivore and intermittent fasting goes hand in hand since you become fat adapted.

 

It's hard to understand how much you get less hungry when fat adapted unless you try it. Sometimes, I'm with some friends who start to feel bad or irritated when it's their usual meal time (low blood sugar). On the other hand if I'm busy my meal time doesn't matter and I can easily skip a day without feeling hungry. 

[stephenterry]

2 hours ago, Tbone999 said:

I'm no expert, but currently following the Rapid Fat Loss Diet by Lyle McDonald. He goes a long way into the science of dieting, and quoting from him, he says that the brain requires energy that can only be derived from a protein source, so if there is no protein intake from food, then that will be garnered from your muscles regardless of how much fat you have stored, which is why he quotes fat loss rather than weight loss. Another view anyway.

A healthy brain produces hundreds of neurotransmitters needed for regular maintenance of the brain and needs proteins to do so. But the brain also needs carbohydrates for fuel and other nutrients for repair and maintenance of brain cells. You don't need to load up on protein.

[khunPer]

6 hours ago, Tayaout said:

It's much more healthy than eating the standard 6 meals a day...

OMG, is that US-standard?

In my home country 3 meals a day is considered standard, and even I only eat 2 a day – of which one is very light cheese snack for my breakfast coffee – i manage to fight with some 2-4 kilos too much around the belly...

Wonder what would happen if I begin to eat 6 meals a day...????

[Tayaout]

14 minutes ago, khunPer said:

OMG, is that US-standard?

In my home country 3 meals a day is considered standard, and even I only eat 2 a day – of which one is very light cheese snack for my breakfast coffee – i manage to fight with some 2-4 kilos too much around the belly...

Wonder what would happen if I begin to eat 6 meals a day...????

I was semi serious but if you include snacking between meals then you can get 6. Breakfast, snack at morning break, lunch, snack at afternoon break, diner and snack before bed. Some bodybuilders do it on purpose and some restrictive weight loss diet. 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2020 by Tayaout

[NotYourBusiness]

For myself, keto diet didn't work at all until I also included intermittent fasting. By "didn't work" I mean I steadily GAINED weight eating three small low carb meals every day. Calories in, calories out mantra just doesn't work for me. Of course, it's no surprise that this creates major friction with well-meaning friends who think they know my body better than me.

Question: Why are fat people hungry? Think about it. Fat people might have a MILLION calories in storage. They shouldn't be hungry at all. Why are they? If you can't answer this basic question, then you haven't got the whole thing figured out. Search Youtube for "Butter Bob" and you can find the answer. He's the only guy that explained my problem in a simple way, explained the solution, and I am down 10kg, effortlessly, and not hungry. It will change your life.

Edited February 15, 2020 by NotYourBusiness

[Ireland32]

I do the 8 hour of eating and 16 fasting

[stephenterry]

1 hour ago, khunPer said:

OMG, is that US-standard?

In my home country 3 meals a day is considered standard, and even I only eat 2 a day – of which one is very light cheese snack for my breakfast coffee – i manage to fight with some 2-4 kilos too much around the belly...

Wonder what would happen if I begin to eat 6 meals a day...????

Latest science favours eating a king's breakfast as the body's metabolic rate is at its highest in the morning, and declines during the day. Hence you could consume more calories which get burnt off with fat. Fill your bowl with whole fruits, berries, nuts and oatmeal topped with coconut milk to take you through to a light prince's lunch and a pauper's dinner.

[Tayaout]

46 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Latest science favours eating a king's breakfast as the body's metabolic rate is at its highest in the morning, and declines during the day. Hence you could consume more calories which get burnt off with fat. Fill your bowl with whole fruits, berries, nuts and oatmeal topped with coconut milk to take you through to a light prince's lunch and a pauper's dinner.

Link please? 

[Monkeyrobot]

Can you still eat Pussy on this diet??

[khunPer]

6 hours ago, stephenterry said:

Latest science favours eating a king's breakfast as the body's metabolic rate is at its highest in the morning, and declines during the day. Hence you could consume more calories which get burnt off with fat. Fill your bowl with whole fruits, berries, nuts and oatmeal topped with coconut milk to take you through to a light prince's lunch and a pauper's dinner.

Thanks. 

Latest science is to eat depending of your blood sugar, some can eat carbon hydrates, others shall eat more proteins; and if your are near to a diabetes level, it's a different issue. Some says skip all meals but dinner – almost what I do, but I'm up late, and wake-up late – and some says, like you, that it's the breakfast, which are the most important meal.

 

I think it's very individual – that's also what latest science shows – and mainly a question of input compared to output; i.e. if you eat more than your need, then your body store it as fat.

 

Unfortunately both my girlfriend and I make too delicious food, and there are too many good restaurants around us...???? ...but my BMI is not that bad, 20.1...????

Edited February 15, 2020 by khunPer
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