I flew in from europe yesterday and I got problems again

[ThaiBunny]

Just now, Kaopad999 said:

they do NOT represent the majority of Thai people.

Of course they don't, they represent the elite and its interests, which is why Thaksin was such an abomination to them when he bought his way to power

[fordguy61mi]

It’s their country. They make the rules. I’ve never seen so many tourists to one country that seem so entitled, like how dare you even think about not letting me in. They really don’t have to do squat for you. Just be thankful you do get to come visit sometimes. It’s teally not your right no matter how entitled you may feel to be able to come and go at will. Just a reality check there.

[luckyluke]

6 minutes ago, Kaopad999 said:

over a period of time are so kind and caring and friendly.

Being 20 years here, it is my experience that most of them are acting this way for a reason.

But than it is possible that I mostly met the wrong people.

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, fordguy61mi said:

It’s their country. They make the rules. I’ve never seen so many tourists to one country that seem so entitled, like how dare you even think about not letting me in. They really don’t have to do squat for you. Just be thankful you do get to come visit sometimes. It’s teally not your right no matter how entitled you may feel to be able to come and go at will. Just a reality check there.

I've never encountered a country before that didn't want to let me in to spend money.

If they've sold me a VISA, and a plane ticket, as far as I'm concerned, I'm entitled to enter.

 

 

Edited February 14, 2020 by BritManToo

[Kaopad999]

4 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Being 20 years here, it is my experience that most of them are acting this way for a reason.

But than it is possible that I mostly met the wrong people.

Please do elaborate....  because I'm not talking about stinking, dirty tourist areas like Pattaya and Phuket, I'm talking about in real local areas where thney just want to have a conversation with me and learn about my culture and views on this life  

[mrmicbkktxl]

19 hours ago, madmen said:

Also he didn't come too often me thinks, hence he got the visa."

 

Yep and was also stamped in. 

 

Lots of" I was nearly rejected posts which are simply not true. Being questioned is NOT nearly rejected but simply just questioned. 

 

So for you it's normal he had to call his gf?What if he didn't have a gf?If he want a beach vacation only then what?They should clarify their rules and stop bothering tourists.Right now they should be happy for every tourist what comes here.

[Kaopad999]

1 minute ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

So for you it's normal he had to call his gf?What if he didn't have a gf?If he want a beach vacation only then what?They should clarify their rules and stop bothering tourists.Right now they should be happy for every tourist what comes here.

Exactly, if only allowed 1 tourist visa per year, then okay, fine, make that an official rule. It really is that simple! 

[mrmicbkktxl]

18 hours ago, madmen said:

Wow if getting stamped in has created this much drama for you, I would hate to see how you would behave if you actually were rejected lol

Yes this is drama,he has a visa,he has money,he said he doesn't work here.Finished.Everything else is harassment.Or why immigration website can't clarify what they need and wanT.If you enjoy to get harassed by those grumpy .... then that is fine ,but it shouldn't be the normal thing.Besides that,right now they should say thanks to everybody who arrives right now.Maybe by any chance you noticed the decrease in tourists at the moment.

[luckyluke]

1 minute ago, Kaopad999 said:

Please do elaborate

My  experience in Bangkok ( Thonglor ), Korat, and Pattaya is that most people are acting nicely when any kind of  finances are involved, if not they are not interested in who you are or what you do, there are exceptions of course, but they are what they are : exceptions.

Now you may of course have a totally different experience.

It is similar to the experiences each of use  encounter at Immigration, different from one  office to another, from one officer to another in the same office, from the same officer dealing with one individual to another.

[Baerboxer]

20 hours ago, parafareno said:

i see falang being treated now very harsh....9 years ago when I was a frequent traveler here, falang was treated very nice......with nothing to complain at all.....

 

They are under pressure from their relatively new boss, and were from his immediate predecessor. 

 

They have much publicized campaigns to catch overstayers - with their biometrics, smart cars and "new" super duper hitec approach. 

 

Similarly they like to show how they've clamped down on visa misuse, and people entering too often on the wrong sort of visas or coming on tourist visas intending to work etc.

 

Unfortunately, in this culture, that sort of pressure, to do the job correctly and proactively, drives this theatrical "must be seen to be nasty and stern" and very nit picky attitude. 

 

Everyone here fears displeasing their boss and so act in a way they think their boss expects them to act.

 

All of this means problems for the foreigners and not just the bad ones. But that's not something they particularly care about.

[BritManToo]

6 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Similarly they like to show how they've clamped down on visa misuse, and people entering too often on the wrong sort of visas or coming on tourist visas intending to work etc.

If they have a problem with VISA misuse, shouldn't they be clamping down on the places selling the VISAs?

How could you displease your boss? They had a VISA, so I stamped them in. Job done.

The main problem as I see it, is corrupt (or possibly stupid) immigration officers looking for trouble.

Edited February 14, 2020 by BritManToo

[mrmicbkktxl]

10 hours ago, BritTim said:

The rules state that all extensions are at the discretion of the immigration officer. As a practical matter, they do not deny extensions unless they think it can lead to some benefit to themselves (such as pushing you towards agent assisted extensions where they take a cut). They are not under instructions to aggressively screen extensions to tourist entries, so they do not. They just do what is easiest.

"Discretion of the io",that's exactly the problem with Thai immigration,the whole country is like that,never a clear yes or no,but 1000 maybes

[bbi1]

21 hours ago, parafareno said:

I felt sick in my stomach...I spend so much money here and it is not good for them......he said that buying a condo is ILLEGAL to my girlfriend....so what is this all about.....how can it be <deleted> illegal to buy a condo? It is a legit purchase....why is it illegal for the immigration lady?

So, did they let you into the country afterwards?

[murikamba]

25 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If they have a problem with VISA misuse, shouldn't they be clamping down on the places selling the VISAs?

Which places selling visas? That is an outright fraud. It will result in arrest not a entry denial.
 

25 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

How could you displease your boss? They had a VISA, so I stamped them in. Job done.

Nope, job is not done. Did you verify that he did not get his valid visa lying, cheating, or other nefarious ways? Did you verify his real reason for living in Thailand on a tourist visa. DId you determine why he frequently coming to Thailand and staying for two months or 3 months at a time. There are so many questions IOs need to find out and eventually deny  entry based on their only available criteria which in most cases is not sufficient money.

Edited February 14, 2020 by murikamba

[bbi1]

20 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Op was unlucky i was using tourist visas for years without 1 question, lucky I'm 50 now....I agree that buying a condo is a mistake if under 50 plus until the uncertainty over health insurance requirements in the future is gone.

 

I do wonder why the Op was targeted, did they profile you?

Wonder what the OP's nationality was. He said he flew from Europe but doesn't mean he was a European or a caucasian.

[ujayujay]

This is the new LOS welcome culture. Its not alone the high Baht or the Corona Virus who People let avoid Thailand.

[ThaiBunny]

3 minutes ago, murikamba said:

Which places selling visas? That is an outright fraud. It will result in arrest not a entry denial.

Unfortunately a number of people believe the application fee they pay when applying for a visa = a purchase price. They don't seem to realise that if you are denied a visa you don't get a refund

[JustAnotherHun]

52 minutes ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

So for you it's normal he had to call his gf?What if he didn't have a gf?If he want a beach vacation only then what?They should clarify their rules and stop bothering tourists.Right now they should be happy for every tourist what comes here.

Maybe3 it is not normal, but why did the OP tell them more than he needed to? No use to try smalltalking IOs.

"Why you come Thailand / Whay want stay so long?"

Answer: "holidays".

[ThaiBunny]

31 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If they have a problem with VISA misuse, shouldn't they be clamping down on the places selling the VISAs?

How could you displease your boss? They had a VISA, so I stamped them in. Job done.

You don't "buy" a visa, you pay an application fee and if you are turned down you don't get your money back. Typically a visa shows the conditions under which you can stay in the country if and only if the Immigration Officer decides to grant you entry at the airport or land crossing. That is true of most countries; Thailand is no different

[scottiddled]

20 hours ago, Just Weird said:

So Immigration questioned you, as is their privilege, then stamped you in.  So the problem is what, exactly?

Textbook apologia from one of the Salty Squad's top propaganda ministers.

 

This is borderline trolling, really. You know what the problem is. You just don't think it's significant, so you reframe the issue by defending aggressive questioning of a tourist as the authorities' "privilege."

 

I think we all see the problem here. They have the prerogative to [mis?]enforce their laws, and millions of farang have the prerogative to choose where to spend their vacations, gap years, retirements, and money. 

 

Take off your snarky cap for just a minute and be honest: do you think it's perfectly OK for authorities, on a whim, to aggressively question visitors--up to and including having extended conversations with their significant others?

 

I'll even meet you half way. I'm not a tourist, but if I were pulled out of the immigration line and randomly/arbitrarily questioned (maybe a routine cross-check of TM9173 compliance), I wouldn't necessarily be enraged by it.

 

There are ways to treat people with respect, like not yelling at them and asking why the "spend so much time" in the country when they're breaking no law (and in the OP's case, not even crossing unwritten thresholds discussed in these forums). Maybe you can be polite and apologize for the inconvenience. Maybe you can explain, even if only vaguely, the reason for the extra scrutiny ("Sorry for the inconvenience, sir. You've been randomly selected for additional screening as part of our Wangdoogle Crosscheck Initiative. This should just take a moment.") And when it comes to fishing around for bogus grounds to deny someone entry--remember: there are no statutory or regulatory lines that are being crossed by someone coming to Thailand too often or for too long--a little courtesy is even more important.

 

Even if it's just his biased perspective, do you have any reason to doubt the OP's story? Do you think the "angry" female IO was really a smiling young woman who wanted to flirt with him? I don't. It jibes with other stories I've read. So quit the trollish denialism and reflexive defending of a broken system.

 

We all know how most of the Salty Squad feels about...well, everyone who isn't them. If you're not on a long-stay visa because you've got money to burn on Thai Elite or a Thai wife or a Thai agent, or just managed to find a way to work within the system, you should "get the right visa" or stay out. Preferably the latter, I suspect, is what most Salty Squadders would prefer. Not only are you denying reality and tacitly condoning corruption and dysfunction, you're working against your own interests. When it comes to unfair treatment of farang, be it through dumb laws, poor training, corruption, or whatever, everyone should be on the same page. BKK denials might not affect you, just as the Thai insurance debacle doesn't affect long-stay tourists. None of it affects me, but I'll still stand up against what's wrong in this otherwise pleasant country. Because otherwise we could all find ourselves like the frog boiled in a pot of TM30/90day/triple-stamped bureaucracy...one degree at a time.

[Mansell]

When people are acting angry I usually ask them, “Are you angry with me?” This usually shocks them into realizing how obnoxious they are being, and many times the attitude changes. Mainly they are having a bad day. I think he should have asked for a supervisor and pointed out he was coming into the country as a tourist and the IO is very angry and rude to him.....what is going on? And tell them this doesn’t happen in other countries. Interesting to see if there is any response. I can only take so much of their bullsh@( and would end up saying Shove It and get a flight to Vietnam.

[bbi1]

12 hours ago, madmen said:

Nothing wrong with obtaining a holiday home and millions do it around the world. 

IO are more concerned about younger men working illegally or old guys trying to avoid the 800k and ducking and weaving and scamming the visa system 

So you mean they are concerned about any male over the age of 18. If they are still a male kid under 18 or a female then the IO's aren't really concerned???

[mrmicbkktxl]

6 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

Maybe3 it is not normal, but why did the OP tell them more than he needed to? No use to try smalltalking IOs.

"Why you come Thailand / Whay want stay so long?"

Answer: "holidays".

Well some guys maybe get nervous,I'm on non O  since 20 years,but still don't feel to comfortable dealing with those grumps

[Burma Bill]

I also experienced a very abrupt middle aged lady Immigration Officer whilst crossing back over land from Poi-Pet (Cambodia) to Aranyaprathet (Thailand). I have a one year Non O Retirement visa and a one year multiple re-entry permit. On inspecting my passport, she stated I have two recent land crossings from Cambodia back into Thailand and no more were allowed. I was told in no uncertain terms that my next crossing back into Thailand must be by AIR. I did not argue as I was returning from inspecting my new apartment in Siem Reap in which I take up residence tomorrow. Bye Bye Thailand after nearly 20 years.

[Tchooptip]

21 hours ago, Just Weird said:

So Immigration questioned you, as is their privilege, then stamped you in.  So the problem is what, exactly?

 Up to you, if going so far as calling the girlfriend is OK? 
They did not question him they bullied him if you cannot see the difference!????

Edited February 14, 2020 by Tchooptip

[scottiddled]

44 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

They are under pressure from their relatively new boss, and were from his immediate predecessor. 

[...]

Similarly they like to show how they've clamped down on visa misuse, and people entering too often on the wrong sort of visas or coming on tourist visas intending to work etc.

 

39 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If they have a problem with VISA misuse, shouldn't they be clamping down on the places selling the VISAs?

How could you displease your boss? They had a VISA, so I stamped them in. Job done.

The main problem as I see it, is corrupt (or possibly stupid) immigration officers looking for trouble.

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I've never encountered a country before that didn't want to let me in to spend money.

If they've sold me a VISA, and a plane ticket, as far as I'm concerned, I'm entitled to enter.

 

 

I agree, BritMan, but you know what's coming. All you have to do is give them a crack and they'll ignore the broader point and........

14 minutes ago, murikamba said:

Which places selling visas? That is an outright fraud. It will result in arrest not a entry denial.
 

Nope, job is not done. Did you verify that he did not get his valid visa lying, cheating, or other nefarious ways? Did you verify his real reason for living in Thailand on a tourist visa. DId you determine why he frequently coming to Thailand and staying for two months or 3 months at a time. There are so many questions IOs need to find out and eventually deny  entry based on their only available criteria which in most cases is not sufficient money.

Clever sophistry. Pick on one thing that isn't central to the thesis but that you can score points on, then you're off to the races. One old-time scholar of argument I met told me he calls your move a "quibble." 

 

Sure, they're not "selling" them. We get it. But, figuratively speaking, they are. And if they deny everyone, or almost everyone, or even enough people that word spreads and demand for the visa--err...applications--dries up, they'll be missing out on business--err...applicants.

 

You get it. I've seen your posts. You're many things, but not a fool. It's a nice revenue stream; much better than free visa exemptions. It keeps people employed stamping forms and manufacturing stamps and selling tea to those in the Stamp Industrial Complex.

 

As for the "so many questions" thing, you're out of your depth. Many regulars (I believe Brit is one of them) have thoroughly debunked this line of argument. IOs at the border have very specific authority/tasks and narrow grounds to deny entry. Their job is not to relitigate visa issuance decisions. It's not even to decide who's been in Thailand too often/long. The fact that their most frequent official grounds for denial is "not sufficient money" (your words)--even when that's not true--shows how hamstrung they are. They're attempting to accomplish separate policy objectives without the tools, or even the official mandate, to do so.

 

That's what leads to the biggest headache of Thai bureaucracy: uncertainty due to vague (or not updated) laws/regulations and umpteen thousand fiefdoms (one for each IO) trying to fix all of Thailand's problems through their own judgment. The unintended consequence is that the fix is the headache, with plenty of people who aren't the egregious violators being caught up (or fearing being caught up) in the oversized nets. This person said it well:

31 minutes ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

"Discretion of the io",that's exactly the problem with Thai immigration,the whole country is like that,never a clear yes or no,but 1000 maybes

[FalangJaiDee]

11 hours ago, BritTim said:

As someone else suggested, you may need to be selective about where you enter in future. With a visa, you can consider airports like Chiang Mai and U-Tapao. If seeking visa exempt entry, use land crossings.

Whats wrong with going to a land border with an SETV or METV? 

[Suradit69]

21 hours ago, Just Weird said:

So Immigration questioned you, as is their privilege, then stamped you in.  So the problem is what, exactly?

The problem is that "they" dared to question Khun Farang. Devastating loss of face.

[slammma]

20 hours ago, parafareno said:

they are not nice anymore like they were 9 years ago.....things changed......a lot......

Airport security and immigration has become almost universally unpleasant. There are a few exceptions in my experience including Singapore and Hong Kong and this is because immigration is largely completely automated - no interview.

Entering the USA e.g. can be terrifying if you get selected for additional questioning: They start with:
Empty out all of your pockets.

Take off your socks and show me your feet.

Any question you ask will be met with "I'm asking the questions here".
..proceeds to rifle through luggage while interrogation continues:
Do you have pornography on your laptop?
Are you carrying syringes?
What were you doing in <insert country(s) you traveled to>?

Show me your hands. Flip them over.
Have you used any firearms recently?
...and so on.

This was my experience one time (dozens of times with no issue). I have heard worse, including being compelled to strip naked and receive cavity probes. Being held in detention rooms with no information whatsoever for lengthy periods of time. Apparently, when you are in an international immigration area of an airport, all dignity and rights are stripped. Literally.

[Sujo]

16 minutes ago, Burma Bill said:

I also experienced a very abrupt middle aged lady Immigration Officer whilst crossing back over land from Poi-Pet (Cambodia) to Aranyaprathet (Thailand). I have a one year Non O Retirement visa and a one year multiple re-entry permit. On inspecting my passport, she stated I have two recent land crossings from Cambodia back into Thailand and no more were allowed. I was told in no uncertain terms that my next crossing back into Thailand must be by AIR. I did not argue as I was returning from inspecting my new apartment in Siem Reap in which I take up residence tomorrow. Bye Bye Thailand after nearly 20 years.

Correct. I live and work in malaysia. Last year i went by land to dannok in january and april. 4 days each time. Went again in october and refused as they only allow 2 xings per calendar year.

 

I understand why they did it that way but it wasnt put in place for people like me that do short visits, its for people that stay in thailand.

 

IO only seems to have discretion to refuse, not to allow. I havent been back since, now do my holiday time to vietnam and philippines 4 times a year.