Are We Changing Thailand?

[onzestan]

As I have stated before on TV I have been living here for over 17 years, and I think that we are changing Thailand indeed, and not always for the better.

It is human nature to try to adapt their surroundings to their needs and in many subtle, and some not so subtle ways we have succeeded.

We have succeeded to build farang ghetto’s all over Thailand.

We have succeeded in making many Thai’s despise us for what they perceive us to be.

We have succeeded in creating a complete industry build around getting the farang’s money with whatever means possible.

We have also brought some good to this country, but I fear that the bad outweighs the good.

Sure there are the farangs that come here with the best intentions, and I like to think that I’m one of them, and I also like to think that I have had a positive influence on some at least.

Anyway would be nice to learn your views on this.

Cheers

Onzestan

p.s. if this has been discussed before, I’m sorry.

[Mid]

gotta accept responsibility for plastic ..............................

[Dupont]

Gotta look at whose changing ie. the Thais. Don't see any reluctance on their part to join the modern world, own houses (as opposed to 3 generations living in the same house), motorbikes, cars, eat in restaurants, go to movies, nightclubs, beach holidays etc. etc.

Also, would it have stayed the same if we hadn't come? course not.

We also change, and most adopt some (if not many) Thai customs, taking off shoes, not touching heads, not raising voices, going to temples etc.

[meadish_sweetball]

For the better, and for the worse.

[canuckamuck]

Everything changes; the world is smaller place everyday. Thai morality is getting watered down as the current generation is losing touch with traditions of their past. It’s all rock and roll and a big fashion show now. Tuner cars and internet chat is more fun than threshing rice.

Did the farangs bring it here, sure, but they brought along top notch medical facilities, civil engineering, and attempted to bring education too.

The modern world is full of crap, but we live longer, and fewer babies die. Let’s just hope that they can sort out our mistakes and take more of the good than the bad.

[PhilHarries]

The world is fast becoming a cultural melting pot with all cultures absorbing both good and bad from each other. It's just a pity that it seems the West's bad points seem to travel better and faster than the good.

[DirkGently]

"We have succeeded to build farang ghetto’s all over Thailand", have we? What is a ghetto? We usually think of black or muslim ghettos in the sense they create a hellish dump for themselves to live in. Most of the places where farangs set up shop seem nice enough. Of course I won't bring Pattaya in to it as that really is a a peice of work.

"We have succeeded in making many Thai’s despise us for what they perceive us to be". Why wasn't I informed? As I walk up and down my rather traditional soi I often sense curosity, indifference and bewilderment, but never hate. If you mean the Thais doing buisness around Patpong or similar venus, then yes they proberbly do. However, the pendulam swings and drunk sex tourists wouldn't be there if Thais were no so eager to take/push the daughters of issan into such a place.

"We have succeeded in creating a complete industry build around getting the farang’s money with whatever means possible". Now this one had me stumped. Are you saying that Thais would never swindle other Thais, only us farangs. Do you really belive that after 17 years? One unpleasent thing I have witnessed in Thaialnd was on a bus back from up country. A pregnant lady got on and sat next to an old lady. They didn't know each other at the start, but soon got chatting. I could tell by gestures the old lady was asking about the baby to be etc etc. After sometime we pulled into a service area and the old lady got off and some words were exchanged between the two and I took it the old lady was offering to get her a drink or something. The pregnant lady got off too a minute or so later. Upon returning the old lady started a fuss and heads up and down the bus spun like mere cats. The pregnat lady had got off and taken the old ladies bag.

So it seems that this industry of cons seems to have been alive and well for some time. I guess the rewards are just larger if you swindle a farang.

Of course the foreign guys with interests in kids do nobody any good and I'm sure Thailand would be a better place without most drunk swaggering farangs, but they are largely only here for a short time and have no real effect.

I think it is better to dewll on the positives. There are a number of charities that have been set up to help the poor and needy, these certainly would not be set up by rich Thais. I'm sure Thais employed in foreign owned companies are grateful.

On a personal note I am certain my wifes family are happy to have me around. My wife has commented many times that her life is much better than she could have expected.

The Op said that some good things have come from farangs being here. I'm interested in what he thinks they are.

[OlRedEyes]

The world is much smaller. International trade is now indispensible. The world changes constantly. Not only the west's doing.

If a culture doesn't change to keep up with evolution, it dies. Progress/evolution is natural. Staying the same is unnatural.

Stop agonising over 'what you've done'. It is what others haven't done that is the problem.

[qwertz]

As I have stated before on TV I have been living here for over 17 years, and I think that we are changing Thailand indeed, and not always for the better.

It is human nature to try to adapt their surroundings to their needs and in many subtle, and some not so subtle ways we have succeeded.

We have succeeded to build farang ghetto's all over Thailand.

We have succeeded in making many Thai's despise us for what they perceive us to be.

We have succeeded in creating a complete industry build around getting the farang's money with whatever means possible.

We have also brought some good to this country, but I fear that the bad outweighs the good.

Sure there are the farangs that come here with the best intentions, and I like to think that I'm one of them, and I also like to think that I have had a positive influence on some at least.

Anyway would be nice to learn your views on this.

Cheers

Onzestan

p.s. if this has been discussed before, I'm sorry.

Ozestan, I think you're right but for the wrong reasons.

LOS is changing because it must and it wants to. The farangs (nebulous term) and other "undesirables" are only the implements of change. Change takes money and we're jointly pumping billions into their land so we'll all be tolerated as long as the cash keeps flowing. There is no other industry as lucrative as tourism and expatism, both have to buy their way in. Any other industry requires a higher level of training and work ethic, both of which don't sit well with tthe locals so we're all safe for another decade or two. Come the time when they don't need our money any more we'll be looked on in much the same way as the immigrants currently flooding to the west. We haven't changed the mentality there one iota, it's our money that rings the changes and provides the much needed prosperity.

P.S. olredeyes, bullseye.

Edited April 6, 2007 by qwertz

[Nebukanezar]

For this to really have any kind of accuracy one should really break down the various groups of forgieners in question. I have noticed some pecular similarities amongst different nationalities. Some like say Germans and Arabs like to create areas for themselves were they can stick together and be amongst each other... Nakula north of Pattaya and the Nana area soi 4 are good examples. This I think is kinda cool. As by doing this they build something long lasting in the community were folks can go and get a different cultural perspective. Like the Italian Maket or China Town areas in my home city of Philadelphia.

Then you have the expats who are more solitary be they teach, run a business, or exist off a retirement pension of some sort. So long as they are not committing crimes these guys are cool too.

Then you have the tourists, while being a expat I usually don't get really involved with tourists (unless they are friends that I am showing around) they have their benefits too in that they pour in stupid money to the economy. And yes they get ripped off, about the same here as anywhere else sheep minded tourists may go.

Oh and as for the Ghetto comment by the poster above. Ghettos were what English called the areas were the Jews lived. The term found its way to the States and stuck for awhile as well, as the Jews started making a exodus out of certain areas in the inner city, blacks moved in and bought up those houses( do to the racist mind state of many white people in America, the arrival of a black family in the neighborhood would drop the property value down. Hence a domino effect. The area however still retained it's name as a ghetto but the faces changed. And they were never really bad run downed hellish areas until recently say over the past 20-25 years people were poor but kept up what they had to the best of their ability. Thats when crack came around.......and well thats a whole other story. Though suffice to say if Thailand has a Ghetto it would have to be Kho Sarn rd. )

[oooooo]

i have to remind all of u that electricity, telephone, air-conditioners, washing machines, cars, airplanes, mobile phones, computers, and of course the internet were invented by thais.

we only managed to install some go-go bars here.

so respekkt to all of them thai inventors. what would we do without them in the west?

imagine poor bill gates, he wouldnt have been able to ship vista if it wasnt for the thais inventing the computer.

my my

[ThaiGoon]

i have to remind all of u that electricity, telephone, air-conditioners, washing machines, cars, airplanes, mobile phones, computers, and of course the internet were invented by thais.

we only managed to install some go-go bars here.

so respekkt to all of them thai inventors. what would we do without them in the west?

imagine poor bill gates, he wouldnt have been able to ship vista if it wasnt for the thais inventing the computer.

my my

We, Thais, obviously didn't invent any of those things you said. It's true that we might not have contributed anything significant to this world, but at least we didn't achieve in killing millions of innocent lives in both World Wars, an almost complete ethnic cleansing of indigenous people like native Americans, and enslaving of another human race (because the color of their skin was darker.) We also didn't invent nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. We also didn't manage to be the main culprits in causing global warming, the next major global disaster. I guess we Thais must give kudos to the West for all these amazing things.

Edited April 8, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[IMA_FARANG]

As I have stated before on TV I have been living here for over 17 years, and I think that we are changing Thailand indeed, and not always for the better.

It is human nature to try to adapt their surroundings to their needs and in many subtle, and some not so subtle ways we have succeeded.

We have succeeded to build farang ghetto's all over Thailand.

We have succeeded in making many Thai's despise us for what they perceive us to be.

We have succeeded in creating a complete industry build around getting the farang's money with whatever means possible.

We have also brought some good to this country, but I fear that the bad outweighs the good.

Sure there are the farangs that come here with the best intentions, and I like to think that I'm one of them, and I also like to think that I have had a positive influence on some at least.

Anyway would be nice to learn your views on this.

Cheers

Onzestan

p.s. if this has been discussed before, I'm sorry.

Change is inevitable.

From a Taoist viewpoint it is a natural and inevitable process.

Every thing that is full must empty itself, that which is empty can only filll.

That is the nature of the Tao.

But putting aside the philosophy, there have been a lot of changes in those 17 years. I've seen changes in attitudes in my own family in about the same time. Some I liked, some I disliked.

You have to say that the Thai life style, especially in Bangkok, isn't as friendly and easy-going as it was in 1979 when I first came to Bangkok. Matierially, the life has probably improved.

For women, life has become better, I'm sure. My thai girlfriend applied for a passport at least 20 years ago to make a trip to Singapore with me.

She had to get the permission then of her "divorced" (he ran off and left her with no money) husband in order to get a passport at that time.

Her half Thai, half Burmese children, then couldn't get a Thai I.D. card without ther father's agreement, even though there mother is full-blood Thai. No problem now, they are considered thai beacuse she is.

One thing I've noticed, the blind worship of anything "farang" isn't like it was in 1979.At one time it was accepted that any music from the U.S or Europe, as well as consumer goods was common, especially among the well-off Thai familes. I heard it said then that if it was Thai made, it couln't be as good as "farang" made. Not any more.

To sum it up, of course there have been changes.

Some have been good, some not.

[Luckydog]

Worst things we did was to bring them Mobile Phones and bloody Motorbikes!

Oh! and unqualified English Teachers!!!

[dominique355]

We, Thais, obviously didn't invent any of those things you said. It's true that we might not have contributed anything significantly to this world, but at least we didn't achieve in killing millions of innocent lives in both World Wars, an almost complete ethnic cleansing of indigenous people like native Americans, and enslaving of another human race (because the color of their skin was darker.) We also didn't invent nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. We also didn't managed to the main culprit in causing global warming, the next major global disaster. I guess we Thais must give kudos to the West for all these amazing things.

It is not so long ago that slavery has been abolished in Thailand (by King Rama V) and I am not so sure if the liquid in the klong outside my house wouldn't qualify as biological or chemical weapon. And what is coming out of all the Diesel engines and power plants in Thailand is probably only perfume, right?

OK, but let's see what Thailand has given to the world:

- The wai (still the most elegant and gracious greeting in the world)

- Jasmin rice

- Red Bull

- the most beautiful girls (my opinion)

- add yours ...

[Jimjim]

Farang expats have a minimal impact on the society, but they're certainly noticed by Thais in everyday life.

The big impact has come through foreign businesses, i.e. big corporations. That's what's changed Thailand much more than some farangs hanging out whoring and drinking. As for the globalization of Thai culture, that'd be more due to TV, music, and the internet.

I think the original poster overstates the importance of the average farang expat on Thailand and it's culture, society, etc.

[ThaiGoon]

It is not so long ago that slavery has been abolished in Thailand (by King Rama V) and I am not so sure if the liquid in the klong outside my house wouldn't qualify as biological or chemical weapon. And what is coming out of all the Diesel engines and power plants in Thailand is probably only perfume, right?

OK, but let's see what Thailand has given to the world:

- The wai (still the most elegant and gracious greeting in the world)

- Jasmin rice

- Red Bull

- the most beautiful girls (my opinion)

- add yours ...

There was already a thread about what Thailand has given to the world. I'm sure you can find it yourself. I myself can't be *rsed as you Brits say.

As for slavery in Thailand, mostly those poor people became slaves because they were in debt that they couldn't pay off. Thailand didn't actively go to another continent and recruit another race of human beings to be their slaves. I think there's quite a big difference there.

As for "Thai biological and chemical weapons," I'm pretty sure that those polluted canals have killed a lot less than the lovely weapons you folks invented. Finally Carbon emission, I'm sure you can look it up some where. Last I saw the US contributed about 20 or 25% of all carbon emission inthis world...but EU as a whole probably surpassed America. If you want exact numbers on this, try renting the inconvenient truth or google it. It's not that hard to find. Again I can't be *rsed.

Edit: Carbon Emission: US 24.3%, EU 15.3%, and Thailand 0.9%.

Edited April 8, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[onzestan]

i have to remind all of u that electricity, telephone, air-conditioners, washing machines, cars, airplanes, mobile phones, computers, and of course the internet were invented by thais.

we only managed to install some go-go bars here.

so respekkt to all of them thai inventors. what would we do without them in the west?

imagine poor bill gates, he wouldnt have been able to ship vista if it wasnt for the thais inventing the computer.

my my

my, my, my...... stepped on your toe did I?

To all of you who took the time to read my topic before replying, my thanks even if you don't agree with me.

I believe some explanation is due.

I used the word "ghetto" by want of a better word for the elite housing estates with high walls around them and security people at the gates.

I strongly believe that we have brought good to the country, but not on a level that could have been done.

The real improvements are done more on a personal level where farangs dedicate their free time and effort on improving life standards in their immediate surroundings, or as some of you mentioned the charities that do wonderful jobs.

As for the western, Japanese, Korean and other big industries are all here because of cheap labour, tax incentives, basically to make as much money as they can, which is OK because as a side effect it creates jobs and other benefits for the local, but that is just a side effect not a purpose.

The better medical care, again for the better who has enough money

Better schools again for the few that can afford it, I don't see an improvement on the local village school, on the contrary, the good teachers are of to the better paid private schools, and who can blame them. I don't.

I do love Thailand and not because this country is the only one in the world where the local girls would call me handsome for whatever reason, but because it IS the only country in the world that could have produced a lady like my wife, and there isn't a day that I'm not gratefull for that.

My biggest joy except from the above, is the genuine unbiased smiles on the children's faces when I'm helping out at some local school festivities, and the friendship I get from many of the Thais that know me,

and I'm very proud that my nickname amongst these is " Khun Subhaap"

Anyway to make a long story short, I was at Suwannapum yesterday to pick up a friend

and I'm sad to have to say that the much hated taxi touts were all better dressed and behaved better than most of the arriving farangs.

That's it

Cheers

onzestan

[ColPyat]

As for slavery in Thailand, mostly those poor people becamse slaves because they were in debt that they couldn't pay off. Thailand didn't actively go to another continent and recruit another race of human beings to be their slaves. I think there's quite a big difference there.

Actually, in the many Siamese-Laotian and Siamese-Cambodian wars the defeated population was regularly carried as slaves into Thailand, as was general use in the area in the past by all kingdoms. Don't try to make Thais better than they were/are. They are just humans, like the rest of us.

That the scale was lower than in many other countries you mentioned has more to do with lack of opportunity than a different nature of Thailand's inhabitants from the rest of humanity. In recent history Thailand has indeed excelled in some memorable and so far unpunished atrocities, the latest being the drug war killings, and Tak Bai, both supported by large sectors of society.

[ThaiGoon]

Actually, in the many Siamese-Laotian and Siamese-Cambodian wars the defeated population was regularly carried as slaves into Thailand, as was general use in the area in the past by all kingdoms. Don't try to make Thais better than they were/are. They are just humans, like the rest of us.

That the scale was lower than in many other countries you mentioned has more to do with lack of opportunity than a different nature of Thailand's inhabitants from the rest of humanity. In recent history Thailand has indeed excelled in some memorable and so far unpunished atrocities, the latest being the drug war killings, and Tak Bai, both supported by large sectors of society.

I think enslaving POW''s is quite different from intentionally and actively herding another race to use them as slaves. We didn't actively and regularly invade Cambodia or Laos with the intention of enslaving their people. Wars were always about expanding the territory. The intent was never about slavery. That's the difference.

[Pepe']

We, Thais, obviously didn't invent any of those things you said. It's true that we might not have contributed anything significantly to this world, but at least we didn't achieve in killing millions of innocent lives in both World Wars, an almost complete ethnic cleansing of indigenous people like native Americans, and enslaving of another human race (because the color of their skin was darker.) We also didn't invent nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. We also didn't managed to the main culprit in causing global warming, the next major global disaster. I guess we Thais must give kudos to the West for all these amazing things.

It is not so long ago that slavery has been abolished in Thailand (by King Rama V) and I am not so sure if the liquid in the klong outside my house wouldn't qualify as biological or chemical weapon. And what is coming out of all the Diesel engines and power plants in Thailand is probably only perfume, right?

OK, but let's see what Thailand has given to the world:

- The wai (still the most elegant and gracious greeting in the world)

- Jasmin rice

- Red Bull

- the most beautiful girls (my opinion)

- add yours ...

----------------------

Definitely the most beautiful girls, definitely...

[torngseea]

As for slavery in Thailand, mostly those poor people became slaves because they were in debt that they couldn't pay off. Thailand didn't actively go to another continent and recruit another race of human beings to be their slaves. I think there's quite a big difference there.

How about the Chinese, Loatians, Cambodians that are brought here against their will and fed into the sex-trade - do they qualify?

[ColPyat]

Actually, in the many Siamese-Laotian and Siamese-Cambodian wars the defeated population was regularly carried as slaves into Thailand, as was general use in the area in the past by all kingdoms. Don't try to make Thais better than they were/are. They are just humans, like the rest of us.

That the scale was lower than in many other countries you mentioned has more to do with lack of opportunity than a different nature of Thailand's inhabitants from the rest of humanity. In recent history Thailand has indeed excelled in some memorable and so far unpunished atrocities, the latest being the drug war killings, and Tak Bai, both supported by large sectors of society.

I think enslaving POW''s is quite different from intentionally and actively herding another race to use them as slaves. We didn't actively and regularly invade Cambodia or Laos with the intention of enslaving their people. Wars were always about expanding the territory. The intent was never about slavery. That's the difference.

I am sure that it was reassuring for the slaves that they were not intended to be slaves.

By the way, not all western countries and cultures took part in the slave trade.

Anyhow, every country/culture has some very dark spots in their history. It is childish trying to figure out which one was the worst (the victims would have their own opinions on that, i guess). Important though is trying to accept, and coming to terms with the dark parts of ones own history.

And in case of Thailand, the biggest problem is that most people are unaware of its real history, as history is still very selectively taught in school, and to what extends one has to go to find more realistic discourses.

[ThaiGoon]

As for slavery in Thailand, mostly those poor people became slaves because they were in debt that they couldn't pay off. Thailand didn't actively go to another continent and recruit another race of human beings to be their slaves. I think there's quite a big difference there.

How about the Chinese, Loatians, Cambodians that are brought here against their will and fed into the sex-trade - do they qualify?

You have to understand the difference between acts of individual criminals and a national policy/agenda. It's never a Thai national agenda to recruit sex slaves. The same thing can be said about slavery that was practiced in the West? (It's illegal for any Thai to do what you said, but was it illegal (or even discouraged) for your ancenstors to herd black people from Africa and then enslave them? )

Edited April 8, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[ThaiGoon]

Important though is trying to accept, and coming to terms with the dark parts of ones own history.

I agree.

[Nebukanezar]

i have to remind all of u that electricity, telephone, air-conditioners, washing machines, cars, airplanes, mobile phones, computers, and of course the internet were invented by thais.

we only managed to install some go-go bars here.

so respekkt to all of them thai inventors. what would we do without them in the west?

imagine poor bill gates, he wouldnt have been able to ship vista if it wasnt for the thais inventing the computer.

my my

We, Thais, obviously didn't invent any of those things you said. It's true that we might not have contributed anything significant to this world, but at least we didn't achieve in killing millions of innocent lives in both World Wars, an almost complete ethnic cleansing of indigenous people like native Americans, and enslaving of another human race (because the color of their skin was darker.) We also didn't invent nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. We also didn't manage to be the main culprits in causing global warming, the next major global disaster. I guess we Thais must give kudos to the West for all these amazing things.

Bravo Really Bravo...well put, man makes the inventions inventions don't make the man. Don't waste your time with that bigot whom has apparently nothing else better to do than to posture upon the next man's innovation.

And slavery...please don't even get me started on the The white man's genocidal slavery policy that was put in place in Africa makes anything the Thais did with war slaves pale in comparison. And even after slavery with the exploitation under colonization. Thailand was truly Blessed to escape their malevolent reign.

Edited April 8, 2007 by Nebukanezar

[snoophound]

Well the resort towns would be a lot nicer without the plethora of English and Irish Pubs..

i have to remind all of u that electricity, telephone, air-conditioners, washing machines, cars, airplanes, mobile phones, computers, and of course the internet were invented by thais.

we only managed to install some go-go bars here.

so respekkt to all of them thai inventors. what would we do without them in the west?

imagine poor bill gates, he wouldnt have been able to ship vista if it wasnt for the thais inventing the computer.

my my

We, Thais, obviously didn't invent any of those things you said. It's true that we might not have contributed anything significant to this world, but at least we didn't achieve in killing millions of innocent lives in both World Wars, an almost complete ethnic cleansing of indigenous people like native Americans, and enslaving of another human race (because the color of their skin was darker.) We also didn't invent nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. We also didn't manage to be the main culprits in causing global warming, the next major global disaster. I guess we Thais must give kudos to the West for all these amazing things.

Bravo Really Bravo...well put, man makes the inventions inventions don't make the man. Don't waste your time that bigot with nothing else better to do than to posture upon the next man's innovation.

[Pepe']

It is not so long ago that slavery has been abolished in Thailand (by King Rama V) and I am not so sure if the liquid in the klong outside my house wouldn't qualify as biological or chemical weapon. And what is coming out of all the Diesel engines and power plants in Thailand is probably only perfume, right?

OK, but let's see what Thailand has given to the world:

- The wai (still the most elegant and gracious greeting in the world)

- Jasmin rice

- Red Bull

- the most beautiful girls (my opinion)

- add yours ...

There was already a thread about what Thailand has given to the world. I'm sure you can find it yourself. I myself can't be *rsed as you Brits say.

As for slavery in Thailand, mostly those poor people became slaves because they were in debt that they couldn't pay off. Thailand didn't actively go to another continent and recruit another race of human beings to be their slaves. I think there's quite a big difference there.

As for "Thai biological and chemical weapons," I'm pretty sure that those polluted canals have killed a lot less than the lovely weapons you folks invented. Finally Carbon emission, I'm sure you can look it up some where. Last I saw the US contributed about 20 or 25% of all carbon emission inthis world...but EU as a whole probably surpassed America. If you want exact numbers on this, try renting the inconvenient truth or google it. It's not that hard to find. Again I can't be *rsed.

Edit: Carbon Emission: US 24.3%, EU 15.3%, and Thailand 0.9%.

-----------------------

Reality is if the US goes down, you all all down.

Truth is stranger than fiction.

[Nignoy]

We, Thais, obviously didn't invent any of those things you said. It's true that we might not have contributed anything significantly to this world, but at least we didn't achieve in killing millions of innocent lives in both World Wars, an almost complete ethnic cleansing of indigenous people like native Americans, and enslaving of another human race (because the color of their skin was darker.) We also didn't invent nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. We also didn't managed to the main culprit in causing global warming, the next major global disaster. I guess we Thais must give kudos to the West for all these amazing things.

It is not so long ago that slavery has been abolished in Thailand (by King Rama V) and I am not so sure if the liquid in the klong outside my house wouldn't qualify as biological or chemical weapon. And what is coming out of all the Diesel engines and power plants in Thailand is probably only perfume, right?

OK, but let's see what Thailand has given to the world:

- The wai (still the most elegant and gracious greeting in the world)

- Jasmin rice

- Red Bull

- the most beautiful girls (my opinion)

- add yours ...

As a 43 year veteran of thailand, I agree it has changed dramatically not always positively either!!, and foreign influence has turned some thai,s into globetrotters eager for knowledge to bring back to their villages and towns, I befriended thai marine engineers training in factories in northern germany in 1968,spent time in a thai buddhist retreat in Rapperswill switzerland in the 70,s you missed the most important thai exports off your list!!Friendship, Hospitality,respect for the elderly and the SMILES and tranquility, this is what my wife and I think that thailand has brought to the world Nignoy

[Clipped]

c'mon everyone knows the English are perfect, with no faults...

bwahahahahaha yeah right...!!!