O conversion denied at Jomtian - Wants 800K in Thai bank only

[Eocene]

I arrived last week with a visa exemption and 30-day stay. Went to Jomtian immigration with the following financial documents for a O conversion, besides usual documents like form, passport copy, pics. etc. 
1. My latest 401K statements from the US showing +600K USD

2. My ally bank savings account showing +10 K USD

3. My Motif brokerage account showing +100K USD.

 

Jomitian immigration office refused to accept and kept saying 800,000 in a Thai bank only. After that they gave me a print out that shows retirement extension requirements like 800K in a Thai bank, 65K/month, etc. 

Is there any neighboring country where can I get a single entry O for retirement with the above financial documents? Or there is another way to get O for retirement? 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Eocene

[steve187]

not sure what the rules are for overseas money in Laos, an agent could do it for you, saves the trip, but costs big bucks

[Eocene]

9 minutes ago, steve187 said:

not sure what the rules are for overseas money in Laos, an agent could do it for you, saves the trip, but costs big bucks

Where in Laos and do you have a contact for this Laos agent? How much is it going to cost? I'm ready to pay around $300 USD

Edited March 4, 2020 by Eocene

[lopburi3]

Yes that is the requirement for conversion at immigration.  For a visa you can often use external funds and many local Thai Consulates will issue a non immigrant O visa.  Will let others advise Consulate/requirements but believe Laos and Malaysia are often used.

[Peter Denis]

HI Eocene,

I did sent you a PM-message on a related topic.  I don't post it here as I do not want to divert the topic of the thread.

>> To access your PM-messages, just click the letter-icon next to your Profile when logged in to the Forum.

[steve187]

3 minutes ago, Eocene said:

Where in Laos and do you have a contact for this Laos agent? How much is it going to cost? I'm ready to pay around $300 USD

sorry i meant an agent in Pattaya and the embassy in Vientiane and consulate in Savannakhet for the visa

[DrJack54]

OP, eventually you are going to need the 800k in a Thai bank when you apply for your 12 month extension. That money will need to be in Thai bank for 2 months prior to apply for extension.

Personally I would open Thai bank a/c and transfer the 800k baht into that account (need to show money came from o/s) then do your conversion of VE to non o at immigration. 

Other option is to obtain non o at nearby consulates as mentioned above.

Note. If you use an agent then you would need to use agent for subsequent extensions. 

Edited March 4, 2020 by DrJack54

[SEtonal]

48 minutes ago, Eocene said:

Where in Laos and do you have a contact for this Laos agent? How much is it going to cost? I'm ready to pay around $300 USD

The agents are in Pattaya, not Laos.  Agent will charge about 35,000 baht to get you a Thai bank account, a 90 day Non O visa, and a 12 month extension (for a total of 15 months). Using an agent, you do not have to put any money in the bank but the bank might require you to buy accident insurance.

[Max69xl]

2 hours ago, SEtonal said:

The agents are in Pattaya, not Laos.  Agent will charge about 35,000 baht to get you a Thai bank account, a 90 day Non O visa, and a 12 month extension (for a total of 15 months). Using an agent, you do not have to put any money in the bank but the bank might require you to buy accident insurance.

OP has $300 to spend for an agent.

????

[Eocene]

5 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

OP, eventually you are going to need the 800k in a Thai bank when you apply for your 12 month extension. That money will need to be in Thai bank for 2 months prior to apply for extension.

I want to do monthly transfer, not 800K in the bank.

 

2 hours ago, Max69xl said:

OP has $300 to spend for an agent.

I can spend little more but 35K seems very high. I want to do only the O conversion and think about extension later. I don't want to do both at the same time. Do I have to do both at the same time?

 

4 hours ago, SEtonal said:

get you a Thai bank account

 

5 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

I would open Thai bank a/c

I already have a bank account. I opened around 2011 when I lived in Bangkok on tourist visas. 

 

I talked  to few agents and they quoted 12-15K BHT for a conversion only using the financial documents i mentioned in my initial post. But they are pushing for extension also for another 12-15K

Edited March 4, 2020 by Eocene

[Peter Denis]

3 minutes ago, Eocene said:

I talked  to few agents and they quoted 12-15K BHT for a conversion only using the financial documents i mentioned in my initial post. But they are pushing for extension also for another 12-15K

It's logical that the agent that can fix your 90-day Non Imm O - retirement application using the money-in-bank method, also has to do the subsequent application for an extension of stay.  Otherwise you would have the same problem again (no seasoned 800K on your thai bank-account) for the extension.

But indeed, when using the monthly-transfer method, if the agent can clear the path for your 90-day Non Imm O - retirement application, you would normally have no problems applying for the subsequent extension of stay, when you can show at least two monthly income transfers with foreign origins proven.

[Max69xl]

31 minutes ago, Eocene said:

I want to do monthly transfer, not 800K in the bank.

 

I can spend little more but 35K seems very high. I want to do only the O conversion and think about extension later. I don't want to do both at the same time. Do I have to do both at the same time?

 

 

I already have a bank account. I opened around 2011 when I lived in Bangkok on tourist visas. 

 

I talked  to few agents and they quoted 12-15K BHT for a conversion only using the financial documents i mentioned in my initial post. But they are pushing for extension also for another 12-15K

12-15k x 2 is very expensive. 

Can't you transfer 800k to your thai account immediately and use the money just for the conversion?  Are you on a 30 days Visa exempt now? 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Max69xl

[Eocene]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

Can't you transfer 800k to your thai account immediately and use the money just for the conversion?  Are you on a 30 days Visa exempt now? 

Yes, I am on a 30-day visa exempt. I could but I don't want to at present. I also checked Penang requirements but they want a proof of retirement. May be I could get a sworn statement from US embassy that I retired and try Penang.

 

There is also uncertainty in that. Before leaving  US, i already initiated a $500 USD last week that arrived on March 2 in Bangkok Bank coded as FTT. I will continue my weekly transfer of $500 USD every friday and that will reach my Bangkok bank on the following Monday. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Eocene

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, Eocene said:

Yes, I am on a 30-day visa exempt. I could but I don't want to at present. I also checked Penang requirements but they want a proof of retirement.

There was a recent report that they did not ask for the proof of retirement when they applied for a non-o visa.

[Max69xl]

17 minutes ago, Eocene said:

Yes, I am on a 30-day visa exempt. I could but I don't want to at present. I also checked Penang requirements but they want a proof of retirement. May be I could get a sworn statement from US embassy that I retired and try Penang.

 

There is also uncertainty in that. Before leaving  US, i already initiated a $500 USD last week that arrived on March 2 in Bangkok Bank coded as FTT. I will continue my weekly transfer of $500 USD every friday and that will reach my Bangkok bank on the following Monday. 

 

 

 

 

You will not get a sworn statement from the US Embassy. If you're going for the 65k monthly method, immigration won't accept several $500 transfers. They want at least 65k per transfer monthly at about same time of the month. 

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

You will not get a sworn statement from the US Embassy.

I think they would let him do a affidavit stating he is retired.

[Max69xl]

Just now, ubonjoe said:

I think they would let him do a affidavit stating he is retired.

I read reports from late last year that they didn't issue affidavits. But as always, things changes. But a sworn affidavit is imo just bogus. 

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

I read reports from late last year that they didn't issue affidavits. But as always, things changes. But a sworn affidavit is imo just bogus. 

They only stopped doing income affidavits.

Anything with a embassy stamp would be accepted at the consulate.

[Peter Denis]

47 minutes ago, Eocene said:

There is also uncertainty in that. Before leaving  US, i already initiated a $500 USD last week that arrived on March 2 in Bangkok Bank coded as FTT. I will continue my weekly transfer of $500 USD every friday and that will reach my Bangkok bank on the following Monday.

Instead of doing weekly transfers of 500 US $ with foreign origin proven, better switch to monthly transfers of the equivalent of +65.000 THB.  Crazy but true, some IOs (and I believe that includes the Pattaya IO) do not accept multiple transfers even when if added up they meet the monthly requirement tresshold.

[Max69xl]

35 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

They only stopped doing income affidavits.

Anything with a embassy stamp would be accepted at the consulate.

The report I read late last year was not about the income affidavits. 

[Max69xl]

26 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Instead of doing weekly transfers of 500 US $ with foreign origin proven, better switch to monthly transfers of the equivalent of +65.000 THB.  Crazy but true, some IOs (and I believe that includes the Pattaya IO) do not accept multiple transfers even when if added up they meet the monthly requirement tresshold.

It's not crazy, because a pension isn't paid in portions of $500. I guess that's how immigration reason.

[Eocene]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

I read reports from late last year that they didn't issue affidavits. But as always, things changes. But a sworn affidavit is imo just bogus. 

US embassy never issued any affidavit. It is always a sworn statement. Earlier for income statement it was a sworn statement in a standard form but you can still get a sworn statement to say anything you want. And yes,I know it is bogus and you're not supposed to lie. On the other hand, first amendment allows you to lie. Hence, it is difficult for prosecutors to prosecute you for for lying under oath unless it causes great harm to others or breaking another US law by your lies

Edited March 4, 2020 by Eocene

[ubonjoe]

22 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

The report I read late last year was not about the income affidavits. 

See this page. https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/

"Services we CAN provide:

Affidavits"

[Peter Denis]

28 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

It's not crazy, because a pension isn't paid in portions of $500. I guess that's how immigration reason.

It's well possible and even probable that they think like this, but this of course very shallow thinking.

If your pension is being paid in your foreign bank-account (proven by a pension statement), why would you have to transfer it exactly in 1 transfer each month.  Only reason for not allowing that is that the immigration officer cannot add up these transfers (or is too lazy to do that).

But yes, we do know their pettiness in these matters so indeed I suggested to do it in 1 monthly transfer preferably in approx same window. 

[Max69xl]

17 minutes ago, Eocene said:

US embassy never issued any affidavit. It is always a sworn statement. Earlier for income statement it was a sworn statement in a standard form but you can still get a sworn statement to say anything you want. And yes,I know it is bogus and you're not supposed to lie. On the other hand, first amendment allows you to lie. Hence, it is difficult for prosecutors to prosecute you for for lying under oath unless it causes great harm to others or breaking another US law by your lies

Those sworn income statements was the reason the US Embassy stopped issuing them. Thai immigration knew they were bogus and simply required a stamped and signed income letter based on a certificate from a pension provider. 

[lopburi3]

2 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Thai immigration knew they were bogus

I and many other declared actual income and do not appreciate being called a lair.  

5 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

based on a certificate from a pension provider. 

There was never any such requirement for a certificate from a pension provider.

[Max69xl]

22 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

See this page. https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/

"Services we CAN provide:

Affidavits"

I've read it before, and I repeat, imo those sworn statements are bogus. I don't understand why an embassy or consulate provides them. A notarized statement, on the other hand, that's something else. 

[DrJack54]

I would love to have 1 USD for every post I have read about issues with income method and various problems with proof the "pension" came from overseas. At one point I had a dream that my gf name was TransferWise. 

IMO if can afford to retire in Los then stick 800k in bank. Leave it. Simple life. Hells bells that's under 30k USD. Hardly a sheep station amount. 

Then just live off your transfers. 

Lame way to import money but that's another story.

[Eocene]

32 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

(proven by a pension statement),

I don't have pension statements. 

[DrJack54]

16 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

I've read it before, and I repeat, imo those sworn statements are bogus. I don't understand why an embassy or consulate provides them. A notarized statement, on the other hand, that's something else. 

Just to add (bit off topic) ...OZ embassy stopped "stat decs". Not just for previous proof of annual income.  USA calls them affidavits. No proof was required. 

I was at Oz embassy on another matter and asked the person I dealt with about the previous income letters that were subsequently stopped. Her reply..."stat Dec is only valid for use in Australia. Embassy should never have been providing them"

Might also explain why I cannot obtain Dec to satisfy residence certificate needed for drivers license process.

I agree with you. Sworn statements are not worth a pinch here in Thailand. Yes granted in own country serious offence potentially if you made a false one.

Edited March 4, 2020 by DrJack54