Thanathorn reveals the way forward after Future Forward

[NanLaew]

23 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

On 3/8/2020 at 5:42 AM, rooster59 said:

He believes that a creative idea can conquer guns, and vote ballots will triumph over bullets. The group will bring hope to fight fear, democracy against authoritariansim and future against the past. Once it can win the battle of ideas, it can win other wars and by that time true change will come.

Guns, bullets, fight, battle, wars...

Are we in a war? When was the last time the current government used violence to suppress voters?

Or does Thanathorn plan to bring democracy to Thailand with violent groups like the bloody red-shirts?

 

If he wants to improve things he should do it peacefully - including peaceful language. If he shows that he is not corrupt and he does a good job to make life better for many Thais then they and we will remember his work.

Creative idea, ballots, hope, democracy and the future were my personal takeaways from his remarks.

 

For want of a better word, yes, there is a war when it comes to personal freedoms. Suppression doesn't necessarily mean overt violence as many people holding an alternative opinion who were detained as guests at unidentified military bases will attest way back when a putsch was a putsch. Then there's the all seeing, all embracing computer crime act, the lese majeste of the new, digital age.

 

With regard to your takeaways of "Guns, bullets, fight, battle, wars..." all those items are the remit of the armed forces and incumbent government which you may have noticed are pretending to be something that the people need despite the recent elections clearly indicating otherwise.

 

Thanathorn is already tainted goods when it comes to corruption... the recent court rulings have taken care of that. The same will happen to the next squeaky-clean, honest young politician who dares to suggest that the army has no place in government.

[OneMoreFarang]

48 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Thanathorn is already tainted goods when it comes to corruption... the recent court rulings have taken care of that. The same will happen to the next squeaky-clean, honest young politician who dares to suggest that the army has no place in government.

For me Thanathorn was tainted the moment he started to work together with Thaksin. That's an unforgivable sinn for anybody who wants to be seen as honest and not corrupt.

 

That does not mean Thanathorn doesn't have any good ideas. But simply I don't see how we can trust him with that Thaksin connection.

[JAG]

21 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

For me Thanathorn was tainted the moment he started to work together with Thaksin. That's an unforgivable sinn for anybody who wants to be seen as honest and not corrupt.

 

That does not mean Thanathorn doesn't have any good ideas. But simply I don't see how we can trust him with that Thaksin connection.

It is not for you to trust him, but for the Thai people to trust him. Thanathorn's support base are fully aware of what are perceived as Thaksin's faults , they also are aware of the  depth of the support for him which remains, especially  amongst a lot of older people. If you preach a philosophy  of harnessing and establishing a diverse population wide movement to replace the current authoritarian regime, then you must work with that group, and trust them.

 

[Artisi]

On 3/8/2020 at 6:11 AM, Thaiwrath said:

It's not just the local administration elections they dominate, they practically run the country !

It will be hard to change that, with certain people at the helm, unfortunately.

But that can change as demonstrated by history in other countries. 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, JAG said:

Thanathorn's support base are fully aware of what are perceived as Thaksin's faults

Really? It seems most people who support some politicians support them no matter what. Once these people made up their mind they support person X. And anything which does not fit into their picture of person X as hero is ignored.

 

It would be wonderful if people would look at fact and don't hero worship certain people. And it would be wonderful if the so called experts, or the people who think they are experts, forget about that idea that most people make intelligent informed decisions. They don't!

 

 

 

 

[AussieBob18]

16 hours ago, scorecard said:

Agree, however I see:

- Junta will continue to unethically and immorally twist whatever to stop both entities including directing the judiciary.

- Eventually the junta will create an enormous unethical and immoral mess using whatever means which becomes unworkable and the whole thing will collapse.

- I Hope that's not too far away.  

You are probably correct - the Junta will not give up easily.  Clearly the opposition will continue to grow and become stronger and stronger in the minds of the people, whilst the economy continues to tank. 

 

In China where they have been able to suppress the poor through decades of fake economic growth from infrastructure projects, they have 'passed down' some wealth, but as is always the case in socialist/communist countries, decades of fake economic growth through 'social investment projects' will always come home to roost. 

 

But in Thailand it has been a limited Democracy for a long time and it is still a Kingdom - the political environment and the people's 'acceptance' is not so easily controlled.  And with the Junta failing to deliver economic wealth to the vast majority of people, in fact quite the opposite, the people will support a political opposition - and it will not be so easy to shut down. And with some help and external pressure from other countries, especially threatening sanctions and barriers, and with China also under economic pressure, I can see this going in the right direction. It is no coincidence that the press conference was held with foreign press - they know they need external help - and that will not come from China or any of its 'friends'. 

 

There is an election scheduled for 2023, but I have the feeling that the Junta might not last that long. They are in fact a minority Government and if they could lose the support of other Parties, who would do that because they fear electoral destruction in 2023. Politicians want to remain in power and if they know/fear they are going to be voted out, then they will do whatever they can do to stay - and that includes dumping any partnership if it would be to their own benefit. 

 

In politics a day is a long time, and a year is an eternity.  And inevitably in politics, those that live by the ***** also die by the *****.  

 

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

You are probably correct - the Junta will not give up easily.  Clearly the opposition will continue to grow and become stronger and stronger in the minds of the people, whilst the economy continues to tank. 

 

In China where they have been able to suppress the poor through decades of fake economic growth from infrastructure projects, they have 'passed down' some wealth, but as is always the case in socialist/communist countries, decades of fake economic growth through 'social investment projects' will always come home to roost. 

 

But in Thailand it has been a limited Democracy for a long time and it is still a Kingdom - the political environment and the people's 'acceptance' is not so easily controlled.  And with the Junta failing to deliver economic wealth to the vast majority of people, in fact quite the opposite, the people will support a political opposition - and it will not be so easy to shut down. And with some help and external pressure from other countries, especially threatening sanctions and barriers, and with China also under economic pressure, I can see this going in the right direction. It is no coincidence that the press conference was held with foreign press - they know they need external help - and that will not come from China or any of its 'friends'. 

 

There is an election scheduled for 2023, but I have the feeling that the Junta might not last that long. They are in fact a minority Government and if they could lose the support of other Parties, who would do that because they fear electoral destruction in 2023. Politicians want to remain in power and if they know/fear they are going to be voted out, then they will do whatever they can do to stay - and that includes dumping any partnership if it would be to their own benefit. 

 

In politics a day is a long time, and a year is an eternity.  And inevitably in politics, those that live by the ***** also die by the *****.  

 

Nice points...

I quote your paragraph:

 

"Politicians want to remain in power and if they know/fear they are going to be voted out, then they will do whatever they can do to stay - and that includes dumping any partnership if it would be to their own benefit. "

 

Absolutely true of course and plenty of precedents in Thailand. And along with that many of the current politicians (all parties) have an ulterior purpose, the most obvious example being - get a chance at the trough.

 

So I hope 'Move Forward' doesn't allow the scaly trough seekers to jump to their new party. If they do allow these folks in then we will just see another repeat of what's been happening so decades and no progress in moving forward.

 

IMHO one of the high points Khun Thanathorn and Khun Pits referred to is that they realize they didn't allow enough time to vet the folks who applied to join FF which allowed many undesirable applicants to get in.

 

Plus I sense from their comments they realize this is a critical error not to be repeated. Hope so.

[Artisi]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Nice points...

I quote your paragraph:

 

"Politicians want to remain in power and if they know/fear they are going to be voted out, then they will do whatever they can do to stay - and that includes dumping any partnership if it would be to their own benefit. "

 

Absolutely true of course and plenty of precedents in Thailand. And along with that many of the current politicians (all parties) have an ulterior purpose, the most obvious example being - get a chance at the trough.

 

So I hope 'Move Forward' doesn't allow the scaly trough seekers to jump to their new party. If they do allow these folks in then we will just see another repeat of what's been happening so decades and no progress in moving forward.

 

IMHO one of the high points Khun Thanathorn and Khun Pits referred to is that they realize they didn't allow enough time to vet the folks who applied to join FF which allowed many undesirable applicants to get in.

 

Plus I sense from their comments they realize this is a critical error not to be repeated. Hope so.

Possibly they did rush things resulting in a few errors, but they did score 6 million runs before the stumps were removed - so it would seem that their support team over-looked any minor problems. 

It now looks to me that dismantling the FFP will blow-up in someone's face which will be well deserved and can't happen soon enough. 

[scorecard]

38 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Possibly they did rush things resulting in a few errors, but they did score 6 million runs before the stumps were removed - so it would seem that their support team over-looked any minor problems. 

It now looks to me that dismantling the FFP will blow-up in someone's face which will be well deserved and can't happen soon enough. 

Good points.

[Artisi]

22 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Good points.

A good result for the first innings. 

With the captain now assuming the role as coach and the selection team re-vamped - the second innings should result in a much better showing. 

[Haddo]

23 hours ago, BobbyL said:

Only had a quick skim through but they're very impressive. Educated, articulate (even with the language barrier), confident speakers, westernised in their approach to democracy, able to hold an audience and openly discuss their ideas.

 

Could you imagine Prayut and Prawit being able to do something like this even in Thai? Not a chance. The differences are staggering between them and the current regime. Thailand badly needs people like them for its future. 

In fact PM Prayut has an open invitation to address the FCCT - a tradition that has happened over a number of years with former Thai prime ministers. A date was set for late February, but this was delayed until possibly March, but now has been indefinitely delayed.   

[JAG]

7 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Really? It seems most people who support some politicians support them no matter what. Once these people made up their mind they support person X. And anything which does not fit into their picture of person X as hero is ignored.

 

It would be wonderful if people would look at fact and don't hero worship certain people. And it would be wonderful if the so called experts, or the people who think they are experts, forget about that idea that most people make intelligent informed decisions. They don't!

 

 

 

 

Leaving aside your slightly barbed comment about "so called experts" - I make no claim to be an expert, merely an observer; it is unfortunate that you are unable to conceive that co=operating with Thaksin's party in order to present a coherent opposition in Parliament does not constitute the sort of uncritical and total acceptance of his leadership, either by the leadership of Future Forward or by those who voted for it. After all, if those six million plus idolised Thaksin as you seem to suggest, then they would presumably have voted for him. They didn't. they voted for a totally different philosophy. However that does not preclude co-operating with Thaksin in opposition, or possibly, who knows, in some form of coalition government.

[OneMoreFarang]

15 minutes ago, JAG said:

Leaving aside your slightly barbed comment about "so called experts" - I make no claim to be an expert, merely an observer; it is unfortunate that you are unable to conceive that co=operating with Thaksin's party in order to present a coherent opposition in Parliament does not constitute the sort of uncritical and total acceptance of his leadership, either by the leadership of Future Forward or by those who voted for it. After all, if those six million plus idolised Thaksin as you seem to suggest, then they would presumably have voted for him. They didn't. they voted for a totally different philosophy. However that does not preclude co-operating with Thaksin in opposition, or possibly, who knows, in some form of coalition government.

That's like working together with the mafia and pretending to fight crime.

It's one or the other. It can't be a combination of both. Otherwise it's BS talking.

[Artisi]

44 minutes ago, JAG said:

Leaving aside your slightly barbed comment about "so called experts" - I make no claim to be an expert, merely an observer; it is unfortunate that you are unable to conceive that co=operating with Thaksin's party in order to present a coherent opposition in Parliament does not constitute the sort of uncritical and total acceptance of his leadership, either by the leadership of Future Forward or by those who voted for it. After all, if those six million plus idolised Thaksin as you seem to suggest, then they would presumably have voted for him. They didn't. they voted for a totally different philosophy. However that does not preclude co-operating with Thaksin in opposition, or possibly, who knows, in some form of coalition government.

I just hope if they ever get the opportunity of co-operating with Thaksins party, it is at arms length - and a long arm at that. 

[from the home of CC]

On 3/8/2020 at 6:27 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

Guns, bullets, fight, battle, wars...

Are we in a war? When was the last time the current government used violence to suppress voters?

Or does Thanathorn plan to bring democracy to Thailand with violent groups like the bloody red-shirts?

 

If he wants to improve things he should do it peacefully - including peaceful language. If he shows that he is not corrupt and he does a good job to make life better for many Thais then they and we will remember his work.

wants to sacrifice the blood of children for his 'noble' cause by using them as pawns, I hope he ends paying dearly and just doesn't run away to Dubai like the other billionaire a**hole.. 

[owl sees all]

On 3/8/2020 at 2:58 PM, yellowboat said:

The junta's only real concern are foreigners, foreign opinion.  They need them and cannot control them.  Many past discussions like this were preceded by threats, but this one was not.  One can only wonder why? 

 

A Hong Kong friend wanted to move to Thailand, as she was sickened by the government's actions.  Her Thai friends told her Thailand was better.  Said if she wanted guaranteed freedom, Taiwan was probably best.

 

A non favorable, international spotlight is what terrifies the junta.

My TRUE package allows both Aljazeera and RT live to be watched live. I view both for their slant on the International affairs. Every time a new item about Thailand is shown, it is blanked out. I have to go to ## live on the internet to find out what I missed. France 24 is the same.

 

Just paranoid.