2020 overall deaths interesting comparison site.

[Aland]

1 hour ago, Matzzon said:

What facts are you talking about? Please elaborate on your wise and trendy cliché expression.

I guess besides your other faults, you have a memory lapse too. I am talking about the facts stated in the link from the original post to which you replied with your “tell that to...” tripe. Is it your contention that the claims made in the link are incorrect? Should people not see those facts out of reverence to those that have died of Covid19 or complications because of Covid19. I was just curious as to why you found it necessary to attack the original poster for having posted a link stating some mortality facts. “What am I supposed to do with this?” The answer to that is simple, click on the link, learn something, if the truth offends you then move along.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Aland

[RichardColeman]

6 hours ago, Thailand said:

https://deathmeters.info/

Funny, most of the high death are basically due to obesity. You'd imagine if the virus kills so little and fat kills so many, there would be a travel ban to the cake shop, concrete barriers outside chocolate shops and people forced from quarantine houses onto exercise machines. 

 

Ones things for sure, there will be more obesity deaths due to people staying at home getting fatter - wonder if that will negate the virus deaths saved ? 

[Traubert]

4 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Covid has a mortality rate 20-30 times higher than the flu and a transmission rate 2-3 times higher than the flu. The Flu has a vaccine every year. 

You are comparing apples with oranges.

 

Governments all over the world want the figures to be smaller, if they could pin the deaths to the normal flu, they would.

I don't care if an apple or an orange kills me I'll still be very, very DEAD.

 

So will you.

 

 

[FarFlungFalang]

25 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

It is the rate of contagion, the over burdening on hospitals. The deaths of frontline workers, the draining on scarce resources. 

They do not build field hospitals and dig trenches in NYC to bury the dead in a "normal" flu season

 

Fortunately Thailand appears at this point in time to be escaping the major disaster, which cannot be said for so many other countries

I'm not sure what you mean by rate of contagion so I'll await further clarification on that point.The overburdening of hospitals would possibly come from this epidemic coming on top of the normal flu so why isn't it the flu that is causing the overburdening?If someone dies from flu don't they dig trenches to bury them i.e. graves?Are they doing the mass grave thing in NYC or just extra graves for the unidentified fatalities or are you say trenches for dramatic effect?The building of field hospitals is a good idea to keep the infections from entering the normal hospital system and could also be applied the the normal flu pandemics and epidemics.The fact that Thailand and "many" other tropical and sub tropical climate countries don't seem to be suffering nearly as much creates wildly varying death rates and spread rates which makes saying C19 is more contagious when taken on a global level and again the rate of infection numbers mere estimates and guesses as no scientist is saying what they actually are as it's not only to early to tell but how does one actual prove this.How is one supposed to say who is infecting who is there some magical way the can tell where someone actual got the infection from?Is there some form of metadata that indicates the origin of the infection,I think not.The scientists are investigating this thing and they make estimates and guesses to help Governments to combat the disease not so people on forums can quote their guesses to validate their arguments.

[FarFlungFalang]

28 minutes ago, Rancid said:

The Covid reaction from most governments has largely been a fear reaction, fear of not being re-elected. Seems there are lots of statistics floating around, some countries have it mild and others much worse. Re two bad ones, Italy has said the actual covid deaths are actually 10% of the total deaths. In the US a couple of doctors have come out and said they have been told by CDC to record all deaths as covid. So appears western stats are as dodgy as Chinese stats.

Death rates appear somewhere between .035% and 1%, it is worse than the flu, but not as dramatically as made out. Also it seems to target more the old and those with other problems, whereas the flu is more general.

Some believe its a pandemic that will kill us all, others that its just a nasty flu, some a Chinese plot with others a US plot, and then of course others who think lizard aliens started it all.

In Oz the progressive press were all screaming for lock downs for years until a vaccine appears. Now the meme is shifting to gradual release of lock downs, except the vulnerable, until everybody gets natural immunity. Why, because closing borders and lock downs will eventually kill the economy completely, and there may never even be a vaccine. Great Depression Part II is starting to look more like a worse option.

Well said but lacks panic riddled fear, "could do better" was often mentioned on my report cards at school!

[chessman]

It’s a right wing conspiracy theory that doctors are being told to record Unrelated deaths as covid related. It’s doing the rounds on Fox News but no evidence for it

[yourauntbob]

8 minutes ago, chessman said:

It’s a right wing conspiracy theory that doctors are being told to record Unrelated deaths as covid related. It’s doing the rounds on Fox News but no evidence for it

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/coronavirus/Alert-2-New-ICD-code-introduced-for-COVID-19-deaths.pdf

 

Looks like it's a "left wing conspiracy" to deny the facta

 

 

[Aland]

Here’s  your proof

: DR. DEBORAH BIRX: So, I think in this country we've taken a very liberal approach to mortality. And I think the reporting here has been pretty straightforward over the last five to six weeks. Prior to that when there wasn't testing in January and February that's a very different situation and unknown.

There are other countries that if you had a preexisting condition and let's say the virus caused you to go to the ICU and then have a heart or kidney problem some countries are recording as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death. Right now we are still recording it and we will I mean the great thing about having forms that come in and a form that has the ability to market as COVID-19 infection the intent is right now that those if someone dies with COVID-19 we are counting that as a COVID-19 death.

[Brunolem]

4 hours ago, Matzzon said:

Really!? You can´t be serious. Most countries will bounce back after less than a year. The housing crisis was much worse. Signs started already 2003, and nobody took any notice except Warren Buffet. That led to a collapse at the end of 2006 and was also what created the global financial crisis between 2007-2009. Economic collapse? Now, the world recovered fine. Any changes after that? No, people still not learned anything. Another crisis will come. This is just a minor bump in the road, that will soon be forgotten. Nothing will change at the end, until next time something comes up that makes people suffer.

You drink way too much of this kool aid...

[Peterw42]

3 hours ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Didn't you say that C19 is 20-30 times worse than the flu?If so the flu kills about 30,000 each month and 20-30 times 30,000 is 600,000-900,000 each month is that not what you are saying?

The flu has a (many) vaccine/s yet 400,000 still manage to die!It's less deadly?Are you suggesting that those who die from the flu are less dead?How it that possible?Is that why we don't do global shutdowns for the flu because they are less dead?If you can't see the similarities between the two I suggest you try harder and I can help you understand if you are willing to try by debating and arguing and providing support for those arguments as it's a great way to learn.I highly recommend it!

There is nothing wrong or shameful in conceding points in an argument even if it means losing face I know because I have very little face left as it was well and truly stripped away in my youth by mostly being off my face a large amount of time.

Happy days.

400,000 people die of the flu "when" 40,000,000 have the flu, a mortality rate of 0.1%.

40,000,000 people dont have covid yet, if we get to a point where 40,000,000 have covid then the deaths will be 20-30 times higher than the flu deaths. (then it will be 600,000)

Any flu death figures you choose to quote are 0.1% of the total flu cases.

When the total covid  cases reach the same number, the death rate will be 2-3% of the total.

 

You are still comparing apples with oranges, the yearly flu figures with 2 months of covid figures. The flu figures from after its finished to the covid figures 2-3 months into the covid virus.

 

The only way the flu figures are relevant is if you have the yearly covvid figures, and we wont have those figures for another 9-10 months.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Peterw42

[chessman]

1. New code... makes sense. Where are doctors being told to record all deaths as covid?

2. unsourced anecdotal evidence

[Brunolem]

4 hours ago, chessman said:

It’s certainly not lasting a year or more, very likely that by the summer most things will be back to normal.

Dream on.

 

Trump, Mr optimism, in a recent meeting with the heads of major pro sports, said he hoped that things would be back to normal in September.

 

And he was talking about sports events within the US, not about international travelling, tourism, and so on.

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, Aland said:

Should people not see those facts out of reverence to those that have died of Covid19 or complications because of Covid19.

No, they should not. That out of the reason it´s absolutely not comparable facts, and are just used to deviate from the dangerous facts or a pandemic that yet not have a vaccin.

[chessman]

2 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Dream on.

 

Trump, Mr optimism, in a recent meeting with the heads of major pro sports, said he hoped that things would be back to normal in September.

 

And he was talking about sports events within the US, not about international travelling, tourism, and so on.

He also said recently that things will be back to normal by Easter - he hasn’t exactly been consistent with this. 
 

Common international travel and sport (with crowds) will be the last things to return to ‘normal’. The US models say the peak number of deaths there will be in the next few days. Even their worst case scenario models have deaths at almost 0 in June. If that occurs then most things will open up in the summer.

[Matzzon]

17 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

You drink way too much of this kool aid...

And you are talking too much about things you don´t have a clue about.

[Brunolem]

14 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

400,000 people die of the flu "when" 40,000,000 have the flu, a mortality rate of 0.1%.

40,000,000 people dont have covid yet, if we get to a point where 40,000,000 have covid then the deaths will be 20-30 times higher than the flu deaths. (then it will be 600,000)

Any flu death figures you choose to quote are 0.1% of the total flu cases.

When the total covid  cases reach the same number, the death rate will be 2-3% of the total.

 

You are still comparing apples with oranges, the yearly flu figures with 2 months of covid figures. The flu figures from after its finished to the covid figures 2-3 months into the covid virus.

 

The only way the flu figures are relevant is if you have the yearly covvid figures, and we wont have those figures for another 9-10 months.

So you mean that we are in lock down until we reach at least 40 million cases, so that we have a better idea of the mortality rate.

 

That may take some time...as in...years...

 

By that time, more will be dead of hunger, or suicide...

[Brunolem]

1 minute ago, Matzzon said:

And you are talking too much about things you don´t have a clue about.

Are you referring to the kool aid?

[Aland]

39 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

No, they should not. That out of the reason it´s absolutely not comparable facts, and are just used to deviate from the dangerous facts or a pandemic that yet not have a vaccin.

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Aland

[Brunolem]

8 minutes ago, chessman said:

He also said recently that things will be back to normal by Easter - he hasn’t exactly been consistent with this. 
 

Common international travel and sport (with crowds) will be the last things to return to ‘normal’. The US models say the peak number of deaths there will be in the next few days. Even their worst case scenario models have deaths at almost 0 in June. If that occurs then most things will open up in the summer.

Countries with much less cases and deaths than the West, notably in Asia, are not reopening.

 

So, what will it take, in numbers, for the West to reopen?

 

Dr Fauci recommendation is to maintain the lock down until the number goes down to...zero!

 

This may take a little bit longer than a couple of months.

 

The fact is that, as of today, the governments have no idea of the when and how they will reopen...with the exception of Austria...

[chessman]

8 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Dr Fauci recommendation is to maintain the lock down until the number goes down to...zero!

Quote please. Sounds like nonsense or something taken out of context to me. He has said there will inevitably be an increase in new cases when things reopen  but that is just stating fact.

[Brunolem]

The coronavirus hysteria exists because of five or six powerful countries, who have the overwhelmingly larger number of cases and deaths: the US, the UK, France, Italy, Spain, and to a lesser extent Germany.

 

These countries are among the very few with over 100,000 cases and 10,000 deaths each, numbers on average ten times higher than those of most other countries.

 

People, and notably the media, ignore the large majority to focus on the (powerful) exceptions.

 

So, yes, if you happen to live in one of these countries, there is reason to worry, but if you don't, then there are probably more pressing issues to worry about.

[yuyiinthesky]

7 hours ago, Thailand said:

https://deathmeters.info/

Thanks, it is important to understand that there are more diseases around than this virus, diseases which are killing more people than this virus, and that every single day.

I wish there would be only half the effort put into fighting tuberculosis, malaria, influenza than into fighting this virus.

I'm sorry for every single one having to die, but that includes the huge number of unnecessary deaths from diseases other than Covid-19.

[chessman]

fact checking from the Washington Post. Food for thought.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/03/27/those-covid-19-death-toll-figures-are-incomplete/

 

Giving reasons why the number of covid deaths is actually being underreported. Interesting that the number of Swine flu deaths at the time was much lower and then revised upwards later when people analysed the numbers of deaths. 

 

 

[Brunolem]

8 minutes ago, chessman said:

Quote please. Sounds like nonsense or something taken out of context to me. He has said there will inevitably be an increase in new cases when things reopen  but that is just stating fact.

 

“Fauci said that we can start to “relax” social distancing once there are “no new cases, no deaths.” 

[Matzzon]

28 minutes ago, Aland said:

Ahhh, censorship. ????????

Mmmm... says it all. stylish post with only one word after you finished what you were doing. Apparently you succeeded also, judging out of the positive emoticon. 

And no, it has nothing to do with censorship. Good guess, though. Now go back and do the long procedure, and try again.

[Matzzon]

32 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Are you referring to the kool aid?

No, everything except that. In that area I hope you have expertise, due to your try to judge me.

[chessman]

8 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

The coronavirus hysteria exists because of five or six powerful countries, who have the overwhelmingly larger number of cases and deaths: the US, the UK, France, Italy, Spain, and to a lesser extent Germany.

 

These countries are among the very few with over 100,000 cases and 10,000 deaths each, numbers on average ten times higher than those of most other countries.

 

People, and notably the media, ignore the large majority to focus on the (powerful) exceptions.

 

So, yes, if you happen to live in one of these countries, there is reason to worry, but if you don't, then there are probably more pressing issues to worry about.

What do you make of the spread from that Thai boxing event? Lots of cases and deaths attributed to that. Imagine if Thailand had taken no steps to ban mass gatherings after that... there could easily have started to be similar mass gatherings where the virus was spread.

 

these are ‘what ifs’ of course but you can see why a country would look at what was happening in Italy at the time and be overly cautious.

[chessman]

23 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

“Fauci said that we can start to “relax” social distancing once there are “no new cases, no deaths.” 

I just watched the press conference question where he said this. It’s easy to find. He was answering a specific question about ‘some social distancing guidelines’ in the summer for things like baseball matches or concerts. So it’s implied the no new cases or deaths is for summer events like concerts or baseball - he then goes on to say the models showed that that should happen before summer.

 

So the quote is taken out of context, but I agree he could have worded it better.

[Brunolem]

24 minutes ago, chessman said:

What do you make of the spread from that Thai boxing event? Lots of cases and deaths attributed to that. Imagine if Thailand had taken no steps to ban mass gatherings after that... there could easily have started to be similar mass gatherings where the virus was spread.

 

these are ‘what ifs’ of course but you can see why a country would look at what was happening in Italy at the time and be overly cautious.

Of course, precautions need to be taken... up to a certain extent... 

 

Look at India, with its 1.3 billion people, mostly poor, under full lock down for weeks... because of a few hundred deaths. 

 

And even Thailand, which is adding more and more restrictions, even though the numbers are going down day after day. 

 

Hence my question: what numbers are low enough to go back to normal? 

[Brunolem]

34 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

No, everything except that. In that area I hope you have expertise, due to your try to judge me.

You don't "judge" people when you don't agree, or dismiss their statements.

 

All your statements regarding the state of the economy pre crisis, and its coming rebound post crisis, are wrong I am afraid...but this is not the object of this thread...there are many other threads for that, where you can enjoy reading my "expertise"...