China's blame game doesn't solve anything.

[ThailandRyan]

The beginning of burying their dead has started in Wuhan, but it is unlike anyone of us would expect when trying to bury a family member.  The article outlines what those families must go through in order to obtain the cremated remains of those deceased family members and what they must endure when trying to bury them.  

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/wuhan-residents-finally-line-up-to-bury-their-dead-after-coronavirus-lockdown/ar-BB12uAa6?ocid=msedgdhp

[ChouDoufu]

3 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Bats, it was the Bats man, not Batman...such a great cuisine, have you not heard, it was the first story out of China, that it came from a bat in the wet market in Wuhan....

 

https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/world/bat-virus-bioweapon-what-the-science-says-about-covid-19-origins/ar-BB12sMhR?li=BBr8Cnr

yes, it was the first story, and it was a beautiful story.  but it was just a story.

 

i don't believe they eat bats in wuhan.  dogs perhaps, but not bats.  that was all based on a chinese travel blogger who posted a social media video eating bat soup in indonesia.  even the latest update, in the guardian i think, titled something like "wet markets open again, bats back on the menu" or similarly clickbaity title, used a photo of an indonesian market stall selling bats to inform their readers.

[rvaviator]

55 minutes ago, chessman said:

Right, but my post asked about systematic coverage. I understand that there are crazies everywhere and we can find examples of that but that is not the same thing at all. Did Chinese news sources accept and publish what this guy said? Does anybody know?

I am in Beijing - Have been throughout this outbreak.

 

All I can say to try and answer you question. Myself and the Chinese I work with have not seen or heard any national coverage saying that C-19 started in the west. Yes some official made a comment that 'who to say that the virus was not planted by US' Which i think was in response to questions from the west regarding the origin of the virus ... Apart from that I have not seen any systematic narrative to push that statement on a national level. Anyone I have spoken to about this all say the same ... Wuhan ...

 

Now you can not enter China if you do not have a Chinese passport. Some foreigners have had  problems when they returned before that ban came into effect. Some high profile cases did not want to stay isolated for 14 days and that caused issues in the media. The high numbers of new infections in the rest of the word - are reported. Not everyone know that foreigners can not return to china - Hence I can understand that some may be a bit  'scared' if they see a white face (not so easy to see behind a mask .. haha) ...  I have had no personal issues .. people are as friendly as they always have been (or as unfriendly ... ) No difference.

 

Just my experience ..... 

 

 

[ThailandRyan]

2 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

yes, it was the first story, and it was a beautiful story.  but it was just a story.

 

i don't believe they eat bats in wuhan.  dogs perhaps, but not bats.  that was all based on a chinese travel blogger who posted a social media video eating bat soup in indonesia.  even the latest update, in the guardian i think, titled something like "wet markets open again, bats back on the menu" or similarly clickbaity title, used a photo of an indonesian market stall selling bats to inform their readers.

More deflections of reality.... 

[ChouDoufu]

3 hours ago, garrya said:

the difference between coronaviruses is a little. 

So yes, it definitely doesn't prove anything. I am only 1 kg lighter and 1 cm shorter than my brother. That's 96% different.

 

So let's do it again. Have they found Covid in any other bats? Nope, but something similar.

 

In COVID-19, 'CO' stands for 'corona,' 'VI' for 'virus,' and 'D' for disease. Formerly, this disease was referred to as “2019 novel coronavirus” or “2019-nCoV”. There are many types of human coronaviruses including some that commonly cause mild upper-respiratory tract illnesses.

 

many varieties of covid's, many found in bats.  i think the chinese from wuhan were doing research on bats in yunnan that carry something very similar, although not an exact match, to the specific new virus identified in 2019.

[ChouDoufu]

17 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

More deflections of reality.... 

i'm sorry.  i don't understand.  please explain.

 

you posted something about the "story" of bats sold at the market in wuhan, and bats eatin in wuhan as some sort of proof.  but if bats are neither sold at that market nor eaten in wuhan, how is that deflection?  we know where the bat soup theory started.  travel vlog.

 

did you read the article you linked? 

[watthong]

31 minutes ago, rvaviator said:

I am in Beijing - Have been throughout this outbreak.

 

All I can say to try and answer you question. Myself and the Chinese I work with have not seen or heard any national coverage saying that C-19 started in the west. Yes some official made a comment that 'who to say that the virus was not planted by US' Which i think was in response to questions from the west regarding the origin of the virus ... Apart from that I have not seen any systematic narrative to push that statement on a national level. Anyone I have spoken to about this all say the same ... Wuhan ...

 

Same as Trump putting this out there: "who to say Russia was the only one who interfered in the election? How about China, etc..." Deflect, deflect, deflect. Now let's get back to an examination of China's propaganda machine, and others (looking at you, Kremlin) at work during this Wuhan virus crisis.

 

 

[GinBoy2]

This is a complex societal issue as much as it is a Chinese Government issue.

 

I doubt many of you have actually seen the so called 'wet' markets, I have.

 

I lived in China for several years, and trust me, go visit one and all you want to do is have a shower when you get home they are so awful.

 

I was living there through the SARS episode, again it originated in a animal to human transfer, they shut everything down, but as soon as it was over, everything started back up just like before.

 

Until they, as a society have a 'Eureka' moment and recognize this practice of humans slaughtering wild animals in unsanitary conditions is a problem, this will happen again

Edited April 12, 2020 by GinBoy2

[crobe]

2 hours ago, chessman said:

Right, but my post asked about systematic coverage. I understand that there are crazies everywhere and we can find examples of that but that is not the same thing at all. Did Chinese news sources accept and publish what this guy said? Does anybody know?

Yes, China Peoples Daily - which is a paper sponsored by the Chinese state - do your own research from now on

Edited April 12, 2020 by crobe

[chessman]

12 minutes ago, crobe said:

Yes, China Peoples Daily - which is a paper sponsored by the Chinese state - do your own research from now on

I had a look. Strongish propaganda stuff but nothing there I could see claiming The virus did not originate in China. 
 

I’d rather take the word of the person who has been in Beijing and followed the Chinese media. 

[ukrules]

7 hours ago, Liverpoolfan said:

Just for the record I am NOT blaming China for this.

I stopped reading there....you should be, it is their fault.

[WineOh]

1 minute ago, ukrules said:

I stopped reading there....you should be, it is their fault.

I'm not really into too much finger wagging as i find it doesn't achieve much.

Exposing liars however is a different story ????

[ChouDoufu]

31 minutes ago, chessman said:

I had a look. Strongish propaganda stuff but nothing there I could see claiming The virus did not originate in China. 
 

I’d rather take the word of the person who has been in Beijing and followed the Chinese media. 

to be fair, there have been some twatter/social media quotes from some chinese officials.  i wouldn't necessarily put much value on those twatterings, likely just their trolling response to trumpisms.  and to be fairer still, trump does make it easy at times.  he needs to stop and think before he twoots.

 

i don't watch much chinese television (jeeze, it's gawdawful!), and have trouble following the news broadcasts, but have seen no indication the government or the people are blaming anyone for accidentally (or on purpose) importing a virus.  they're saying the virus outbreak began in hubei province, suspected to have been related to the wuhan market.

 

will be very interesting to see what other countries find.  there were a number of unexplained outbreaks of respiratory illness with flu-like symptoms reported in other locations mid- to late 2019.  could be a chance this thing was bouncing around the world, mutating into different strains, ultimately landing in wuhan where it found the right conditions to spread. 

 

i read earlier today, san francisco was looking into possible coronavirus cases there before the wuhan outbreak.  they're now testing blood donations from that time to look for antibodies.  with 10% immigrant population from china, we still get to blame china if we so choose.

 

this link is behind an ad-wall:

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-11/bay-area-coronavirus-deaths-signs-of-earlier-spread-california

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, ChouDoufu said:

i'm sorry.  i don't understand.  please explain.

 

you posted something about the "story" of bats sold at the market in wuhan, and bats eatin in wuhan as some sort of proof.  but if bats are neither sold at that market nor eaten in wuhan, how is that deflection?  we know where the bat soup theory started.  travel vlog.

 

did you read the article you linked? 

There is nothing in my posted story of "bats being sold or eaten", I think you need to read the posted link again.  The story does have this portion in it:

 

“The result suggests that the novel coronavirus outbreak is highly relevant to the trading of the wild animals,” experts said.  Wildlife sold at the market for human consumption included wolf cubs, civet cats, bats, dogs, pigs, snakes, chickens, donkeys, badgers, bamboo rats, hedgehogs and deer. Wet markets place people and live and dead animals in close contact, making it easy for a virus to jump species.

Had you actually viewed the article which is titled : "Tests confirm source of deadly coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan"

 

You would have read that Chinese disease experts have carried out scientific tests to pinpoint exactly where the deadly coronavirus outbreak began in Wuhan and Experts from the Chinese Centre for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said tests confirmed the virus first jumped from animals to humans inside the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in the heart of city, according to China’s state-owned Xinhua news agency. The “wet” market which includes live animals for sale had been reported as the source of the outbreak, however samples now confirm that is the case after testing was carried out.

 

However, you just want to keep on insisting I posted a link to it being bats.....What I have posted were possible sources listed by the experts who investigated the possibility of where it came from.  In Addition, you still want to insist that the virus did not start in Wuhan contrary to all investigative reports and experts who conducted tests in the Wet Market.

 

Nothing in any of my links is a Travel Vlog, so try again.....

 

My first link was to a story entitled "Bat virus? Bioweapon? What the science says about COVID-19 origins",  I may have joked about it being Bats by saying "it was the Bats man, not Batman...such a great cuisine, have you not heard, it was the first story out of China, that it came from a bat in the wet market in Wuhan"  but had you read the actual link I posted it tells you exactly again what the science is saying.....

 

https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/world/bat-virus-bioweapon-what-the-science-says-about-covid-19-origins/ar-BB12sMhR?li=BBr8Cnr

Edited April 12, 2020 by ThailandRyan

[ChouDoufu]

9 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

There is nothing in my posted story of "bats being sold or eaten", I think you need to read the posted link again.  The story does have this portion in it:

 

“The result suggests that the novel coronavirus outbreak is highly relevant to the trading of the wild animals,” experts said.  Wildlife sold at the market for human consumption included wolf cubs, civet cats, bats, dogs, pigs, snakes, chickens, donkeys, badgers, bamboo rats, hedgehogs and deer. Wet markets place people and live and dead animals in close contact, making it easy for a virus to jump species.

Had you actually viewed the article which is titled : "Tests confirm source of deadly coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan"

 

You would have read that Chinese disease experts have carried out scientific tests to pinpoint exactly where the deadly coronavirus outbreak began in Wuhan and Experts from the Chinese Centre for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said tests confirmed the virus first jumped from animals to humans inside the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in the heart of city, according to China’s state-owned Xinhua news agency. The “wet” market which includes live animals for sale had been reported as the source of the outbreak, however samples now confirm that is the case after testing was carried out.

 

However, you just want to keep on insisting I posted a link to it being bats.....What I have posted were possible sources listed by the experts who investigated the possibility of where it came from.  In Addition, you still want to insist that the virus did not start in Wuhan contrary to all investigative reports and experts who conducted tests in the Wet Market.

 

Nothing in any of my links is a Travel Vlog, so try again.....

1.  you yourself in your text mentioned the bats eaten in wuhan.  i referenced the travel vlog as the source of the batman story.

 

2.  i agree the outbreak started in wuhan, apparently at the wet market.  chinese researchers linked most of the first 20-some cases to that market, although some were unrelated.  they think their patient zero was a shrimp seller at the market.

 

3.  yes, i did read the article you linked.  the overall gist of it was there are endless theories, and groundless speculation is pointless.  it's too early to know the definitive causes at this stage of the investigation.

 

4.  you are referencing a different article.  in your batman post, you link to:

 

Bat virus? Bioweapon? What the science says about COVID-19 origins

 

https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/world/bat-virus-bioweapon-what-the-science-says-about-covid-19-origins/ar-BB12sMhR?li=BBr8Cnr

Edited April 12, 2020 by ChouDoufu

[Cake Monster]

7 hours ago, Liverpoolfan said:

So we shall be doomed to suffer the same fate time and time again due to this very reason.

It's so sad, Charlie.

Humanity will never progress if we never learn from our mistakes.

 

Some Nations do not want their Populations to progress too much.

Progression  = Intelligence, and to some that is a very scary proposition.

[Mavideol]

2 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

i don't believe they eat bats in wuhan.

maybe it's worth a visit and you will be surprised with their eating habits.... including the very famous local Bat Soup and fried bat, please, feel free, go and check

[garrya]

4 hours ago, Liverpoolfan said:

They eat raw bats in China.

They sold bats for food at this wet market.

Coronaviruses live inside birds (including and especially bats).

 

Do you see the correlation yet???

So they eat bats and we are 100% sure, the Covid-19 comes from those bats. 

I am yet to see an article that clearly proves that scientists INDEED have found the same Covid-19 in those cruel bats. LOL

[Mavideol]

2 minutes ago, Cake Monster said:

Some Nations do not want their Populations to progress too much.

Progression  = Intelligence, and to some that is a very scary proposition.

usually nations with dictatorship and communists type governments do like some type of  regression of their citizens to avoid being challenged

[rvaviator]

1 hour ago, watthong said:

 

Same as Trump putting this out there: "who to say Russia was the only one who interfered in the election? How about China, etc..." Deflect, deflect, deflect. Now let's get back to an examination of China's propaganda machine, and others (looking at you, Kremlin) at work during this Wuhan virus crisis.

 

 

Thanks for the link to the above video - You sort of expect what different groups will say based on who they are and who they support ..

[WineOh]

3 minutes ago, garrya said:

So they eat bats and we are 100% sure, the Covid-19 comes from those bats. 

I am yet to see an article that clearly proves that scientists INDEED have found the same Covid-19 in those cruel bats. LOL

You've kind of proven my point in my previous posts now mate.

Wish I hadn't bothered now ????

Edited April 12, 2020 by Liverpoolfan

[garrya]

3 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

All viruses mutate when they cross the species barrier and the genome becomes different by a few %. To have a virus that is virtually identical to the SARS-Cov-2 virus in bats means it is almost certainly the origin. No, CoVid-19 has not been found in bats - because that's the disease not the virus and bats don't get sick from the viruses they carry (which is a whole other fascinating story, incidentally).

But where is the "real" evidence mate?

You are so biased that you can't see the forest for the tree. Give me an evidence!

 

By the way, coronaviruses are responsible for a large percentage of common cold infections. Coronaviruses, but not exactly COVID-19. See links:

https://web.stanford.edu/group/virus/corona/colds.html

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2759815

 

There is not much difference in virus genomes. You have to understand that the word "evidence" has a meaning. Science cannot rely on "maybe" because it is "almost" the same.

The funny thing is that I am not with China, nor do I support them in any way. In fact, I dislike China as it is. I am simply a neutral person who reads beyond the headlines of mainstream b..ls..t. 

Please spend a couple of hours on this topic, read through articles, especially the ones that were written by independent scientists who are not paid by any government nor are funded by the big pharma. Then you will see a new world. 

Until then there is no point in arguing because you only see one side of the coin.

 

On another note, bats have been eaten for centuries, and these bats have come from the same caves, and locals have eaten them with no problems at all. Then this virus mutated in one single bat right in front of this geezer in his hot soup. Of course :-) Could be a new horror film: "The revenge of the dead bat!"

That Chinese high level virus lab was a mere 8 mile from the wet market, by the way. That was the lab that was headed by a leading virologist who actually studied SARS type viruses and visited the Canadian lab where they stored versions of this COVID. But here, there is no correlation ????  LOL

Edited April 12, 2020 by garrya

[cyril sneer]

daily mail reporting that they have 24-hour furnaces burning dead bodies in China

 

their lying is making the situation worse

[garrya]

12 minutes ago, Liverpoolfan said:

You have kind of proved my point in my previous posts now mate.

Wish I hadn't have bothered now ????

Where is the undeniable evidence mate! Jeez

[ChouDoufu]

40 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

maybe it's worth a visit and you will be surprised with their eating habits.... including the very famous local Bat Soup and fried bat, please, feel free, go and check

thanks, i'll pass.  wuhan isn't on my bucket list this week.

 

but have YOU personally confirmed they eat bats in wuhan? 

 

i've been most everywhere in hainan, yunnan, guangxi, guizhou and hunan.  tens of thousands of kilometers touring by bicycle, staying in small towns, visiting the local markets.  i've seen cat, dog, horse, water buffalo, frogs and turtles.  snakes in alcohol in guangdong.  no bats.  of course absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

 

i've got a neighbor from hubei, about 100km from wuhan, currently doing her 14-day quarantine.  sent her a message asking about crazy wuhanese eating bat soup.  i'll let you know what she says.  but if she says no, how do we know she's not lying?

 

https://observers.france24.com/en/20200203-china-coronavirus-bat-soup-debunk-videos-viral-palau-indonesia

 

**hubei lady says she is unaware of anyone in her province eating bats, says wuhan people are afraid of them.  she's a university professor if that means anything.  gf and i have been to local hubei restaurants with her family.  in addition to normal food, they have also ordered "pigeon soup" and "ocean duck soup."  no bats observed on the menu, but i'll check very carefully next time!**

Edited April 12, 2020 by ChouDoufu

[WineOh]

5 minutes ago, garrya said:

Where is the undeniable evidence mate!

Flat earthers say the same exact thing..

anyone with half a brain can see that they are nuts.

[ChouDoufu]

21 minutes ago, garrya said:

But where is the "real" evidence mate?

You are so biased that you can't see the forest for the tree. Give me an evidence!

 

By the way, coronaviruses are responsible for a large percentage of common cold infections. Coronaviruses, but not exactly COVID-19. See links:

https://web.stanford.edu/group/virus/corona/colds.html

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2759815

 

There is not much difference in virus genomes. You have to understand that the word "evidence" has a meaning. Science cannot rely on "maybe" because it is "almost" the same.

The funny thing is that I am not with China, nor do I support them in any way. In fact, I dislike China as it is. I am simply a neutral person who reads beyond the headlines of mainstream b..ls..t. 

Please spend a couple of hours on this topic, read through articles, especially the ones that were written by independent scientists who are not paid by any government nor are funded by the big pharma. Then you will see a new world. 

Until then there is no point in arguing because you only see one side of the coin.

 

On another note, bats have been eaten for centuries, and these bats have come from the same caves, and locals have eaten them with no problems at all. Then this virus mutated in one single bat right in front of this geezer in his hot soup. Of course :-) Could be a new horror film: "The revenge of the dead bat!"

That Chinese high level virus lab was a mere 8 mile from the wet market, by the way. That was the lab that was headed by a leading virologist who actually studied SARS type viruses and visited the Canadian lab where they stored versions of this COVID. But here, there is no correlation ????  LOL

 

have to be careful quoting scientific studies.  sometimes really big-sounding numbers aren't telling us what we think.

 

human and gorilla dna is about 98% identical, humans and chimps have only about 1% genetic difference.

[Mama Noodle]

Its fascinating all the people hell bent on defending china and denying what everyone globally already agrees, that the virus spawned from wet markets and bats in CHINA - through some form or another. 

[rabas]

10 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

have to be careful quoting scientific studies.  sometimes really big-sounding numbers aren't telling us what we think.

 

human and gorilla dna is about 98% identical, humans and chimps have only about 1% genetic difference.

For those who understand the numbers, they tell us what we think they do. Numbers and equations are just another form of communication.

[garrya]

21 minutes ago, Liverpoolfan said:

Flat earthers say the same exact thing..

anyone with half a brain can see that they are nuts.

But you are the flat earther bro. Lol