COVID-19 death toll in England 41% higher than early data suggested: ONS

[Forethat]

3 hours ago, cmarshall said:

Don't we know that methods used in South Korea and Taiwan are the best practices?  And didn't we know that before the pandemic?

As much as you want to believe so, but no one knew that before the pandemic.

 

South Korea have done remarkably well, yes. But keep in mind that their sharp rise in cases happened in late February and began to drop off in March. At that point the virus was most likely widespread in the UK and our sharp rise began around two weeks later. It's easy to say AFTER the event that the Korean model would be successful. But nobody knew it at the time, that's my whole point.

 

But for what it's worth, this is about being able to account for every person who dies, regardless of where. And I can guarantee that if someone dies in a Korean care home where the doctor issues a death certificate and send it to the registrar via post, he won't be included in the daily count.

 

As I said, it's easier to complain and act like a tosser while others attempt to solve the problem...

Edited April 23, 2020 by Forethat

[Chomper Higgot]

15 minutes ago, Forethat said:

As I said, it's easier to complain and act like a tosser while others attempt to solve the problem...

Running out of arguments?

[Forethat]

11 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Running out of arguments?

My arguments stand up pretty well against Piers', don't you think? Or, in what way to you think he's trying to solve the problem?

[Chomper Higgot]

9 minutes ago, Forethat said:

My arguments stand up pretty well against Piers', don't you think? Or, in what way to you think he's trying to solve the problem?

It’s not Piers’ job to ‘solve problems’.

 

He’s pointing out the Government’s failures, doing so does not mean he owes anyone a solution.

[Forethat]

If anyone believe that the difficulty to accurately identify and report deaths caused by COVID-19 is unique to UK, you might want to think again.

It is NOT an automagical process. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html

 

And before someone comes up with the tin foil hat theory that the all these countries are trying to deceive the citizens by not revealing the correct death toll, please, they're not. It's just that it's b-y complex and difficult. 

[cleopatra2]

14 minutes ago, Forethat said:

If anyone believe that the difficulty to accurately identify and report deaths caused by COVID-19 is unique to UK, you might want to think again.

It is NOT an automagical process. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html

 

And before someone comes up with the tin foil hat theory that the all these countries are trying to deceive the citizens by not revealing the correct death toll, please, they're not. It's just that it's b-y complex and difficult. 

One hospital trust is known to have issued guidance that covid 19 was not required to be mentioned when known to be covid 19 proven.

The trust stated pneumonia or community acquired pneumonia was acceptable.

Under the process of preliminary litigation  the trust has removed the guidance.

[Forethat]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s not Piers’ job to ‘solve problems’.

 

He’s pointing out the Government’s failures, doing so does not mean he owes anyone a solution.

He's not "pointing out failures". He's making faces, insults people, brings incorrect stats to the table, refers to non-existing statements and interrupts people. To mention a few of his qualities. I for one have no issues appreciating that some of his guests begin to laugh during his interviews; they're laughing at PIERS conduct, and Piers himself doesn't realise that. But if you find him likeable I guess you're happy. 

 

He's an obnoxious sensationalist tosser, if you ask me. He'd probably make faces, insult and interrupt the Queen if it generated Twitter clicks.

 

 

[Forethat]

14 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

One hospital trust is known to have issued guidance that covid 19 was not required to be mentioned when known to be covid 19 proven.

The trust stated pneumonia or community acquired pneumonia was acceptable.

Under the process of preliminary litigation  the trust has removed the guidance.

Is that in the US?

[Sheryl]

2 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Is that in the US?

Must be UK.

 

US doesn't have hospital "trusts". 

[Forethat]

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Must be UK.

 

US doesn't have hospital "trusts". 

Wow. In that case, not even NHS reporting is accurate. 

Do you have a link to this info, @cleopatra2?

[cleopatra2]

1 hour ago, Forethat said:

Wow. In that case, not even NHS reporting is accurate. 

Do you have a link to this info, @cleopatra2?

I am not in a position to make the name or area of trust public.

However here is a link that may not be permitted by this site

https://goodlawproject.org/covid-19-deaths/

[Forethat]

2 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

I am not in a position to make the name or area of trust public.

However here is a link that may not be permitted by this site

https://goodlawproject.org/covid-19-deaths/

Well, I'm sorry, but then the trust isn't "known".

[cleopatra2]

10 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Well, I'm sorry, but then the trust isn't "known".

The hospital trust is known. Otherwise how could legal proceedings be brought or the trust's response received.

[Forethat]

2 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

The hospital trust is known. Otherwise how could legal proceedings be brought or the trust's response received.

Legal proceedings are official in this country. Link please, or it never happened.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Forethat

[cleopatra2]

25 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Legal proceedings are official in this country. Link please, or it never happened.

The legal company involved

Rook Irwin and Sweeney

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-HfARNCNQczvrnO7lhcSa5aZMaKSXq23/view

Edited April 23, 2020 by cleopatra2

[cmarshall]

19 hours ago, Forethat said:

As much as you want to believe so, but no one knew that before the pandemic.

 

South Korea have done remarkably well, yes. But keep in mind that their sharp rise in cases happened in late February and began to drop off in March. At that point the virus was most likely widespread in the UK and our sharp rise began around two weeks later. It's easy to say AFTER the event that the Korean model would be successful. But nobody knew it at the time, that's my whole point.

 

But for what it's worth, this is about being able to account for every person who dies, regardless of where. And I can guarantee that if someone dies in a Korean care home where the doctor issues a death certificate and send it to the registrar via post, he won't be included in the daily count.

 

As I said, it's easier to complain and act like a tosser while others attempt to solve the problem...

The Koreans learned their lessons about managing an epidemic from having made mistakes with MERS in 2015.  In the MERS outbreak they hadn't tested enough, their hospitals had too high a patient density, and their management of tracking data was poor.  After that the Koreans reformed their public health system to correct their failings.  It's not as though they happened on their successful management of Covid-19 by luck.

 

Now that the US and UK have badly botched their own management of Covid-19 watch what happens next: neither country will learn from their mistakes and reform their public health systems.  Instead they will look for scapegoats to avoid their own blame.

 

On February 4, the Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention took advantage of the post-MERS reform and authorized an unlicensed Covid-19 test; the government went on to test an extraordinary number of people. By February 26, Korea had tested 46,127 cases, while by that point, Japan had tested just 1,846 cases and the United States only 426. Tests still remain hard to come by in the United States, despite the Trump administration’s repeated suggestions that widespread testing is imminent.

 

https://thebulletin.org/2020/03/south-korea-learned-its-successful-covid-19-strategy-from-a-previous-coronavirus-outbreak-mers/#