Trump says he will suspend all immigration into U.S. over coronavirus

[jimmybcool]

2 hours ago, Slip said:

Really?  I had you down as smarter than that TBL.  I mean that NZ's decision is a short term reaction to a global pandemic and nothing whatsoever to do with immigration.  Quite the opposite of Trump's tub thumping anti-immigrant stance.

That comment as well as this one from the article:

 

""The move, which the Republican president announced on Twitter, effectively achieves a long-term Trump policy goal to curb immigration, making use of the health and economic crisis that has swept the country as a result of the pandemic to do so.""

 

Both imply something that isn't factual.  The implication is Trump does not want any immigration to the USA.  What Trump advocated, and many Americans supported, was an end to ILLEGAL immigration.  Pretty sure most nations have the same goal in mind and work to prevent people ignoring their borders and walking in.  I've no idea your nationality but I assume if 20,000,000 people were living in your country and driving down wages for manual labor you might be peeved as well.  

 

Legal immigration has never been an issue with most in the USA.  Controlled legal immigration.  Including Trump who is married to a legal immigrant.  

 

A major part of the surprise win by Trump in 2016 that the DEMs didn't understand was that blue collar workers understand on a basic level that they can't demand higher wages when someone there illegally will do the work for less.  Mind you there are alternatives to a wall to achieve control of illegal immigration.  For one - seriously crack down on any business that employs illegals.  If the jobs aren't here they will stop coming.  It has surprised me that hasn't been part of his effort.  But then maybe he likes the issue and will run on it again.

 

 

 

[JackThompson]

41 minutes ago, Sujo said:

The policy does not relate to foreign workers, so your post is irrelevant.

The policy stops immigration - and, yes, that includes those "from foreign countries" (i.e. "immigrants") who compete with Americans for jobs by underbidding them.

 

I did read they are letting the ag-worker program continue, which is a shame.  This labor-sector never became part of middle-class America, though it formerly paid enough that college-students would work it during summer-breaks - their summer-earnings covering much of their costs of the rest of the school-year. 

 

This is a missed opportunity to eliminate a poverty-wage labor-sector once and for all.

[Tug]

3 hours ago, Kelsall said:

Waiting for Pelosi and Schiff to say coronavirus is not all that bad, borders should be reopened and illegal immigration should be allowed to once again thrive.

Ahh you do know that before trump became potus illegal immigration was at a decades low rate that’s fact.since trump took office it exploded and lots and lots of un Christan un American and just plan wrong things were and are beeing done under this  administration but don’t worry November is rite around the corner lots of change coming and hopefully immigration reform will be one of those things

[mikebike]

39 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Just need to offer a decent-wage. 

Well there’s the rub, no? ALL jobs in the USA could be filled by Americans if a decent wage and benefit package was offered.

 

Unfortunately I am afraid farmers would have to eat the wage difference, not the consumer, as they are competing with imported produce from countries with much lower standards of living.

[mikebike]

39 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

 It suggests you may not be aware of what is happening here. I don't think you know how desperate conditions are going to become in the next 6 months here.

Are you suggesting that what is happening there is worse than the rest of the world?

[Cryingdick]

Just now, mikebike said:

Are you suggesting that what is happening there is worse than the rest of the world?

 

Certainly in NYC and New Jersey. They are on the verge of collapse. Mid-America is still just about alright and used to boredom so not cracking up. I am surprised SF and LA are doing well.

 

But in NYC the word is the homeless live on the subways. That's pretty scary. 

 

Yes I think it is going to be a lot worse than most people think.

[DoctorG]

15 minutes ago, Tug said:

Ahh you do know that before trump became potus illegal immigration was at a decades low rate that’s fact.since trump took office it exploded and lots and lots of un Christan un American and just plan wrong things were and are beeing done under this  administration but don’t worry November is rite around the corner lots of change coming and hopefully immigration reform will be one of those things

Wondering where you got that illegal immigration stat from as Homeland Security site is not very helpful.

[JackThompson]

46 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

Two solid posts. I don't know if the average retiree living in Thailand actually realizes how things have changed here. The competition is fiercer than ever. Especially down in the southwest or on the left coast.

It literally drove me out of the country in the end - after I got a STEM degree for a "job of the future" (remember the Gore-Perot debate?), and was replaced by an Indian national.   So, my track record was, "replaced by illegal-alien", then "job outsourced," then "replaced by 'legal' foreign-worker."  

 

55 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

I actually thinking you should be able to openly trade your passport.

I would love this - but would feel sorry for the Thai whom I made a sucker's-trade with.  They would end up like me - with No Homeland on Earth - just an "global economic extraction zone," where they are "permitted" to be exploited.

 

There is plenty of exploitation here - and the same use of foreign-workers to undermine Thai's job opportunities.  I know Thais that have to travel 1/2 way around the world to do the Same Construction or Hospitality Job which a Camobdian replacement-worker is doing in THEIR country. 

 

But, Thailand does not allow the foreigners to get green-cards/permanent residence for working here (*edit - nearly as easily), so Thais still have a "Thai homeland," in the broader sense.  And they are not being "property-taxed" off their farms, and out of their homes, as Americans routinely are.

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by JackThompson

[Cryingdick]

1 minute ago, DoctorG said:

Wondering where you got that illegal immigration stat from as Homeland Security site is not very helpful.

 

Have you ever been to the US Embassy in Bangkok? when it opens if you are a citizen you go on one side and there are epically long lines for foreigners. The same is true in Tokyo and anywhere else in the world.

[JackThompson]

45 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

It's happening now because there is no longer a choice.

And it's an election year.  Anything we don't get before November from the Trump Policy Promise-list to the base - forget about it.  I've seen this my entire life with 2nd terms - both parties - when the base is no longer needed. 

Trump's real intentions became clear when he didn't hire MAGA staff in January 2017, carried out the R-party wish-list, and adopted the "bring in more workers" policy.  He justified this with unemployment numbers, which he admitted were "fake" as a candidate.  Those stats do not count "out of the workforce" working-age (very high), but DO count those with below-subsistence part-time jobs.

[Cryingdick]

2 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

It literally drove me out of the country in the end - after I got a STEM degree for a "job of the future" (remember the Gore-Perot debate?), and was replaced by an Indian national.   So, my track record was, "replaced by illegal-alien", then "job outsourced," then "replaced by 'legal' foreign-worker."  

 

I would love this - but would feel sorry for the Thai whom I made a sucker's-trade with.  They would end up like me - with No Homeland on Earth - just an "global economic extraction zone," where they are "permitted" to be exploited.

 

There is plenty of exploitation here - and the same use of foreign-workers to undermine Thai's job opportunities.  I know Thais that have to travel 1/2 way around the world to do the Same Construction or Hospitality Job which a Camobdian replacement-worker is doing in THEIR country. 

 

But, Thailand does not allow the foreigners to get green-cards/permanent residence for working here (*edit - nearly as easily), so Thais still have a "Thai homeland," in the broader sense.  And they are not being "property-taxed" off their farms, and out of their homes, as Americans routinely are.

 

I know all of that. That's why I at times wonder why people living over there keep crying over Trump while they submit themselves to that?

 

I only have one conclusion is that financially they are better off. Otherwise it is a dodgy trade off. I don't understand your comment about a sucker if you have an American passport. I am going to make a thread in the pub section that should be interesting with a poll. Nuff said for me.

[JackThompson]

47 minutes ago, simple1 said:

You think the trump administration / republicans would take any meaningful action for increasing the wage for unskilled labour - haven't they been fighting such changes for years?

Yes - contrary to the Entire MAGA 2016 Campaign.  But it's been a bi-partisan policy ever since Bill Clinton, who sold out the former "labor party" to the moneyed interests. 

 

Prior to that, the labor-unions, corrupt as they were, provided some job-security and decent wages to tens of millions of now-poor Americans - only possible via their influence in the Democratic party.   The Ds switched from supporting their base via high-wages, to saying, "The jobs are gone, sorry, but here's some handout money."  That worked, because the Republican party was busy calling the Americans thrown out of their careers "lazy" and "too demanding" in terms of pay-scales. 

[Cryingdick]

2 minutes ago, mikebike said:

NYC’s infection rate is still lower than many European countries.

 

Great. It's the unemployment rate that is the problem.

[JackThompson]

46 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

 

Until very recently wages were increasing. If you actually look today wages have also increased for the very few working by $2-$3 an hour. That's Amazon and Walmart jobs.

Wages went up from below-subsistence (Amazon and Wal-Mart workers got food-stamps plus a paycheck) to bare-subsistence.  That is hardly MAGA - returning to the American Middle-Class "dream" - where one 40 hour paycheck paid for a high standard of living for a family of 5.  Many work-in-poverty careers used to provide that.

 

46 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

You want to know why wages stagnated so long? This won't be popular but for a very long time women entered the work force and often took less. 

Forcing women out of the home, by slashing their husband's salaries, was an effective tactic - as it further flooded the labor market.   I am not talking about female professionals who love what they do - who should have every right to work in their chosen field.  I mean the Vast Majority of women who hate their jobs, but have no choice. 

 

46 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

It used to be you had one person earning and covered the whole household. As millions more workers entered the work force getting paid much less until recently wages didn't budge.

 

It was a supply glut of workers and we are going to experience a glut of job seekers again very soon. We may have to stop buying an iPad for every kid we have and go back to living in single income households.

Agree - except consumer-products that cost less, in constant-dollars, than a TV-set in the 1970s, are not a significant factor.  Technology made many formerly expensive things much less expensive.  Granted, an Android device would be the more affordable option.

[Cryingdick]

9 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Wages went up from below-subsistence (Amazon and Wal-Mart workers got food-stamps plus a paycheck) to bare-subsistence.  That is hardly MAGA - returning to the American Middle-Class "dream" - where one 40 hour paycheck paid for a high standard of living for a family of 5.  Many work-in-poverty careers used to provide that.

 

Forcing women out of the home, by slashing their husband's salaries, was an effective tactic - as it further flooded the labor market.   I am not talking about female professionals who love what they do - who should have every right to work in their chosen field.  I mean the Vast Majority of women who hate their jobs, but have no choice. 

 

Agree - except consumer-products that cost less, in constant-dollars, than a TV-set in the 1970s, are not a significant factor.  Technology made many formerly expensive things much less expensive.  Granted, an Android device would be the more affordable option.

 

I buy the shares not the products so it is fine with me.

[JackThompson]

35 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Well there’s the rub, no? ALL jobs in the USA could be filled by Americans if a decent wage and benefit package was offered.

 

Unfortunately I am afraid farmers would have to eat the wage difference, not the consumer, as they are competing with imported produce from countries with much lower standards of living.

That is what TARIFFS are for - and how they worked to keep America Great, in the past. 

[Cryingdick]

Just now, JackThompson said:

That is what TARIFFS are for - and how they worked to keep America Great, in the past. 

 

OPEC EMBARGO

[mikebike]

43 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

 

Great. It's the unemployment rate that is the problem.

Hmmm... so what is the difference between NYC/USA and euro countries in that regard?

[Cryingdick]

1 minute ago, mikebike said:

Hmmm... so what is the difference between NYC/USA and euro countries in that regard?

NYC will never recover to what it was. Nor will London for that matter.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Cryingdick

[mikebike]

1 minute ago, Cryingdick said:

NYC will never recover to what it was. Nor will London for that matter.

Who will?

[mikebike]

48 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I mean the Vast Majority of women who hate their jobs, but have no choice. 

So... what is your take on the vast majority of men who hate their jobs but have no choice?

[mikebike]

38 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

That is what TARIFFS are for - and how they worked to keep America Great, in the past. 

So in this catch-22 scenario what happens first, raising the price of consumer goods or raising wages?

[metisdead]

Posts which were advocating potentially illegal activities have been removed as well as the replies. 

[JackThompson]

11 minutes ago, mikebike said:

So... what is your take on the vast majority of men who hate their jobs but have no choice?

Better that they make more money for selling their lives by the hour, so they can retire younger.  Plus, with a stay-at-home smiling-wife waiting to see them at the end of their shift, it can be "worth it." 

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

Believe all you want, I believe this temporary suspension is just a ploy designed to deflect away from bad news.

 

“Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing”

Disagree, he is just using the opportunity to implement this with only a fraction of the resistance he would have faced otherwise.

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed. 

[Bluespunk]

22 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Disagree, he is just using the opportunity to implement this with only a fraction of the resistance he would have faced otherwise.

Likewise disagree with your interpretation. 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Bluespunk

[cmsally]

An off topic post has been removed.

[metisdead]

A post containing a link to a donation site has been removed:

 

22) Members are forbidden to ask for or accept donations, gifts or commissions from other members, any charities must contact support for approval before joining to be approved. https://forum.thaivisa.com/contact/
 

[mlmcleod]

Finally, Trump has his way!  This has been his number 1 priority since the day he took office.  Next he will deport all of the unworthies!

 

The USA will become a whites only nation!