10 minutes ago, chessman said:

There is no basement for how low the right will go to try and deflect blame. 
 

how about a government that says “we made a lot of mistakes but it was a difficult and unprecedented problem (look, many European countries made similar mistakes) and we are trying to improve, let’s work together to overcome this”

In other words, act-out the DNC's fall campaign-commercial for them?  With a little "cut and paste" editing, that would work out well for them. 

Let's face it, CAVING does little good in politics - even if it would be "the right thing to do," in some (not all) cases.  Just ask Bernie about this - who refused to attack his "good friend" Biden in the D-primary season this year, or criticize Hillary effectively, in the last round.  Meanwhile, Trump blasted away at his R-rivals relentlessly - which worked.

I am not one of those who think Trump is "duh heero" - but in the early stages, his positions on the CCP-Virus were BETTER than the opposition, and many in his own party.

23 minutes ago, Canuck1966 said:

You are making my point for me 

You don’t have a point. You are only spewing Fox and Hannity’s talkings points.

A very long post containing unattributed content has been removed.  Please provide a valid link to the source of information when posting and abide by the following forum rule when doing so:

 

 14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

29 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

Wrong. The right are not blaming the Dems or Media - they are refuting the rubbish claims that Trump has killed thousands of people and all the deaths are his fault.

Nobody is saying that.

1 hour ago, d2b2 said:

February! February is the month between January and March.it is the month where when you searched for action by Trump’s administration and you came up empty handed. It is the month where his only actions were to mislead about the virus and saying it would magically disappear. 

The flawed travel ban still permitted 430000 entries from China after it was enacted. And the huge numbers that already entered before the ban remained in the country. 

Did you get those 'facts' from WaPo, NYT, or do you keep the dial set on CNN?

 

They probably didn't tell you that the great majority of infections in the US came from Europe. That's from science, not the MSM.

Fake news,it's 47 is all,i mean they got a great team working on this,great companies ,Great President,it's all gonna be great for the few thousand that are alive when it's over.

1 hour ago, chessman said:

You know this is not true. The right are doing plenty of blaming and scapegoating. 

No they are not. You are being told that by the left wing media - but it aint true.

Go watch right wing media for a while - twitter - facebook - blogs - they aint blaming the Dems for the deaths.

What criticism there is of the Dems is way less than the 24/7 criticism of Trump on most MSM and by Dems.

Just look at this post mate - deaths go up - blame Trump.

Anything bad happens - blame Trump.

Anyway, arguing on here isnt solving the problem.

 

I hope all your folks at home are safe and the numbers start to show it. Look after them. They're a long time gone.

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed. 

 

A post with a link to a Conspiracy-Pseudoscience site and the replies have been removed. 

56 minutes ago, rabas said:

Did you get those 'facts' from WaPo, NYT, or do you keep the dial set on CNN?

 

They probably didn't tell you that the great majority of infections in the US came from Europe. That's from science, not the MSM.

But Trump didn't ban travel from continental Europe until much later. And even later for the UK and Ireland.

27 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

No they are not. You are being told that by the left wing media - but it aint true.

Go watch right wing media for a while - twitter - facebook - blogs - they aint blaming the Dems for the deaths.

What criticism there is of the Dems is way less than the 24/7 criticism of Trump on most MSM and by Dems.

Just look at this post mate - deaths go up - blame Trump.

Anything bad happens - blame Trump.

As the President, he should be able to take the good and bad. As a good leader, he should take a little more than his share of blame, a little less than his share of credit.

1 hour ago, rabas said:

Did you get those 'facts' from WaPo, NYT, or do you keep the dial set on CNN?

 

They probably didn't tell you that the great majority of infections in the US came from Europe. That's from science, not the MSM.

The Trump administration says the China travel ban saved millions of lives. How is that possible, when you ( the arbitrator of all things factual) say the bulk came from Europe? The China ban was too little, too late and riddled with holes allowing the million + already in the US to continue to travel coast to coast and allowed an additional 430,000 + entries from China after it was enacted.

The reality is, the US has no idea where the infections came from. The Government's failed test as well as it's refusal to accept WHO or foreign testing led to month long delays and the loss of any ability to do meaningful tracking. Another failure in a cascade of failures, by the administration, which they refuse to accept responsibility for. When it comes to Trump, the buck ALWAYS stops somewhere else. 

I know it must be hard to admit the president is unqualified and ill- equiped for the office he illegitimatly obtained, but you will come to that conclusion eventually. I have faith ( but it will,sadly be after the needless loss of life and treasure). Maybe you could take some hydroxycholoquine to feel better. There will be plenty available, now that it has been shown to be ineffective and having dangerous and deadly side effects...same as Trump's policies. 

 

4 hours ago, rabas said:

NOTE: The specific date range Feb 1 to mid March. Why?

 

President Trump issued a "Proclamation on Suspension of Entry as Immigrants and Non immigrants or Persons who Pose a Risk of Transmitting 2019 Novel Coronavirus" on January 31, 2020. This prevents most foreign nationals from being able to enter the U.S. if they have travelled to China within the past 14 days.  President Trump issued a travel ban to European countries in March 2020. 

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-travel-exclusi/exclusive-u-s-to-add-britain-ireland-to-european-travel-ban-airline-u-s-officials-idUSKBN2110UF

And he continued to allow both Chinese with green cards and Americans to travel back and forth after that date, with no screening in place, allowing countless infected souls to enter the US. Huge mistake. 

1 hour ago, AussieBob18 said:

No they are not. You are being told that by the left wing media - but it aint true.

Go watch right wing media for a while - twitter - facebook - blogs - they aint blaming the Dems for the deaths.

What criticism there is of the Dems is way less than the 24/7 criticism of Trump on most MSM and by Dems.

Just look at this post mate - deaths go up - blame Trump.

Anything bad happens - blame Trump.

So if my limited understanding is correct ..

 

A) The Dem blame Mr T for acting poorly / badly ... and are somewhat neutral vs China and 'blame' .. sort of ... Lets not argue about who did not shut the gate .. the horse is gone .. lets get it back ...

 

B) The Rep blame China for everything and thinks Mr T is doing a great job

 

Is that it in a nut shell ?

3 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

This thread is useless - list of what Trump/administration did, and the list of what the CCP did - Forbidden to convey this information to others.   I am critical of the administration, but this antifa-style "shut it down" of anything against the 'agenda' makes meaningful-discussion impossible. 

Not forbidden at all, there are quite a few of those lists on the site.

4 hours ago, d2b2 said:

He literally did nothing in February except downplay the problem, attend rallies and golf. 
his orders to ban travel from China was flawed and still allowed over  430,000 people to travel to US after the ban was put in place. 
he failed to provide access to testing because he didn’t want foreign assistance or to allow the people to know the extent of infection.

he consistently downplayed the risks and severity of the problem, even saying it would “magically disappear” 

your perception is the one clouded by magical thinking

I did post something of a timeline, but it appears that I contravened the TVF rules with it, so I'm giving it another try and hope it to be in the right format.......

 

GENEVA, Jan 14 (Reuters) - There has been “limited” human-to-human transmission of a new coronavirus that has struck in China, mainly small clusters in families, but there is potential for wider spread, the World Health Organization (WHO) said on Tuesday.Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove, acting head of WHO’s emerging diseases unit, told a Geneva news briefing that the agency had given guidance to hospitals worldwide about infection control in case of spread, including by a “super-spreading” event in a health care setting.

https://www.reuters.com/article/china-health-pneumonia-who/who-says-new-china-virus-could-spread-its-warning-all-hospitals-idUSL8N29F48F 
https://time.com/5824322/who-coronavirus-response-maria-van-kerkhove/

So there were warnings early on, but they were dismissed, with the famous phrase, "we have it under control" being used in January, not to mention that "it would miraculously disappear".

The slow reaction of the government, following trumps dismissive prose about it, leaves no room for doubt.
 

I must admit, I love the poster about Trump covering his anus.

Going on about sueing China.

China & WHO of course have it on record (which Trump refuses to talk about) as to exactly when they officially informed the world about Covid 19 & some suggestions to take.

How long did he joke about the "Chinamans Flu " before action.

Something like 26 days A lifetime in any viruses life

11 hours ago, rvaviator said:

So if my limited understanding is correct ..

 

A) The Dem blame Mr T for acting poorly / badly ... and are somewhat neutral vs China and 'blame' .. sort of ... Lets not argue about who did not shut the gate .. the horse is gone .. lets get it back ...

 

B) The Rep blame China for everything and thinks Mr T is doing a great job

 

Is that it in a nut shell ?

Your limited understanding is correct.

Not that what you wrote is correct, but that your limited understanding means that you think that the Dems are good and that the GOP/Trump is bad.  All things you believe, follow on from those core understandings of any situation.  It is called cognitive dissonance and it affects to different degrees all people.  I sincerely hope you do not have it so bad that any rational thought is not possible, when it comes to GOP or Trump or Dems, like many others I could name. 

 

11 hours ago, JackThompson said:

This thread is useless - list of what Trump/administration did, and the list of what the CCP did - Forbidden to convey this information to others.   I am critical of the administration, but this antifa-style "shut it down" of anything against the 'agenda' makes meaningful-discussion impossible. 

One big problem with that list is that it doesn't include the things President Trump should have done but didn't do or did too late.

There has been a lot of rubbish written here and in the media claiming that Trump didnt act quick enough, and Trump made things worse, bla bla bla.  Here are some examples of where that is completrely and utterly wrong.  Sure he and his Admin were not perfect, byt statements that Trump has caused the deaths of thousands is utter rubbish.

 

The following is a timeline on the international travel bans - in response to claims about Trump.  The same can be said about the vast majority of other attacks against Trump. Yes Trump and his Admin have made mistakes, but they way some pundits are saying it, it is all Trump's fault - and that is patently false.

 

29th February 2020

"WHO continues to advise against the application of travel or trade restrictions to countries experiencing COVID-19 outbreaks."

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200218-sitrep-29-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=6262de9e_2

 

8th March 2020

"WHO is urging all countries to prepare for the potential arrival of COVID-19 by readying emergency response systems;  increasing capacity to detect and care for patients; ensuring hospitals have the space, supplies and necessary personnel; and developing life-saving medical interventions."

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200308-sitrep-48-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=16f7ccef_4

 

9th March 2020

"Now that the virus has a foothold in so many countries, the threat of a pandemic has become very real.  But it would be the first pandemic in history that could be controlled.  The bottom line is: we are not at the mercy of this virus."

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200309-sitrep-49-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=70dabe61_4

 

10th March 2020

"WHO reiterates that measures that restrict the movement of people during this outbreak should be proportionate to
the public health risk, short in duration and reviewed regularly as more information about the virus, the disease
epidemiology and clinical characteristics becomes available. See WHO recommendations on international traffic, published on 29 February 20204"

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200310-sitrep-50-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=55e904fb_2

 

11th March 2020

"WHO Director-General in his regular media briefing today stated that WHO has been assessing this outbreak around the clock and we are deeply concerned both by the alarming levels of spread and severity, and by the alarming levels of inaction. WHO therefore have made the assessment that COVID-19 can be characterized as a pandemic"

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200311-sitrep-51-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=1ba62e57_10

 

WHO has still not revised its international travel recommendations as of 29th February and still recommends against the application of travel or trade restrictions.

 

Meanwhile a brief outline of the Trump Admin's responses:

The White House Coronavirus Task Force "coordinates and oversees the Administration's efforts to monitor, prevent, contain, and mitigate the spread" of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). The task force was established on January 29, 2020. 

On January 31, the Trump administration declared a public health emergency, and placed travel restrictions on entry for travellers from China. 

n February 26, 2020, U.S. Vice President Mike Pence was named to chair the task force, and Deborah Birx was named the response coordinator. 

On March 10, 2020, U.S. Senate Republicans who had attended a briefing with President Donald Trump had encouraged him to hold more briefings and to make Anthony Fauci the "face of the federal government's response".

On March 13: Trump declares a national emergency - the first in over 50 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Coronavirus_Task_Force

 

This link details a timeline of how COVID-19 has unfolded in the US:

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/nation/2020/04/21/coronavirus-updates-how-covid-19-unfolded-u-s-timeline/2990956001/

1 hour ago, AussieBob18 said:

There has been a lot of rubbish written here and in the media claiming that Trump didnt act quick enough, and Trump made things worse, bla bla bla.  Here are some examples of where that is completrely and utterly wrong.  Sure he and his Admin were not perfect, byt statements that Trump has caused the deaths of thousands is utter rubbish.

 

The following is a timeline on the international travel bans - in response to claims about Trump.  The same can be said about the vast majority of other attacks against Trump. Yes Trump and his Admin have made mistakes, but they way some pundits are saying it, it is all Trump's fault - and that is patently false.

 

29th February 2020

"WHO continues to advise against the application of travel or trade restrictions to countries experiencing COVID-19 outbreaks."

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200218-sitrep-29-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=6262de9e_2

 

8th March 2020

"WHO is urging all countries to prepare for the potential arrival of COVID-19 by readying emergency response systems;  increasing capacity to detect and care for patients; ensuring hospitals have the space, supplies and necessary personnel; and developing life-saving medical interventions."

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200308-sitrep-48-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=16f7ccef_4

 

9th March 2020

"Now that the virus has a foothold in so many countries, the threat of a pandemic has become very real.  But it would be the first pandemic in history that could be controlled.  The bottom line is: we are not at the mercy of this virus."

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200309-sitrep-49-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=70dabe61_4

 

10th March 2020

"WHO reiterates that measures that restrict the movement of people during this outbreak should be proportionate to
the public health risk, short in duration and reviewed regularly as more information about the virus, the disease
epidemiology and clinical characteristics becomes available. See WHO recommendations on international traffic, published on 29 February 20204"

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200310-sitrep-50-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=55e904fb_2

 

11th March 2020

"WHO Director-General in his regular media briefing today stated that WHO has been assessing this outbreak around the clock and we are deeply concerned both by the alarming levels of spread and severity, and by the alarming levels of inaction. WHO therefore have made the assessment that COVID-19 can be characterized as a pandemic"

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200311-sitrep-51-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=1ba62e57_10

 

WHO has still not revised its international travel recommendations as of 29th February and still recommends against the application of travel or trade restrictions.

 

Meanwhile a brief outline of the Trump Admin's responses:

The White House Coronavirus Task Force "coordinates and oversees the Administration's efforts to monitor, prevent, contain, and mitigate the spread" of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). The task force was established on January 29, 2020. 

On January 31, the Trump administration declared a public health emergency, and placed travel restrictions on entry for travellers from China. 

n February 26, 2020, U.S. Vice President Mike Pence was named to chair the task force, and Deborah Birx was named the response coordinator. 

On March 10, 2020, U.S. Senate Republicans who had attended a briefing with President Donald Trump had encouraged him to hold more briefings and to make Anthony Fauci the "face of the federal government's response".

On March 13: Trump declares a national emergency - the first in over 50 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Coronavirus_Task_Force

 

This link details a timeline of how COVID-19 has unfolded in the US:

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/nation/2020/04/21/coronavirus-updates-how-covid-19-unfolded-u-s-timeline/2990956001/

So what did US do between end of January and mid march?

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

So what did US do between end of January and mid march?

Good point.......they faffed about, doing nothing that would stop the spread and posts numbered 50, 74 and 77 highlight this.

 

A warning from the WHO was given on January 14th that the virus could easily spread to a pandemic, yet posters delight in trying to deflect from this fact, and as others have pointed out, the trump rhetoric contained phrases that will go down in history as "Nero fiddles whilst Rome burns" moments. The stable genius said..............

 

"it's like the flu":

 

“We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control".

 

"It’s going to be just fine.”

 

“Looks like by April, you know, in theory, when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away.”

 

“The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. … Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

 

“It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”

 

And now reality bites...........

 

Seems like we're gonna hit 60,000 deaths and 1,000,000 cases around the same day, ~ next Tuesday, April 28.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, mtls2005 said:

Seems like we're gonna hit 60,000 deaths and 1,000,000 cases around the same day, ~ next Tuesday, April 28.

 

 

 

 

Sad numbers indeed, and I'm just thankful that in NZ (my country) the number of infections and deaths are very low in comparison to many others.

4 hours ago, stevenl said:

So what did US do between end of January and mid march?

No need to worry now because the "stable genius" has just suggested a couple of possible cures, and if you ever wanted to know just how stupid this man is, then you need to look and read, because it's all over the media – – yes actual footage and reporting.

 

I didn't know whether to laugh or cry at the stupidity of this man, but judge for yourself......

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/23/trump-coronavirus-treatment-disinfectant 

trump has stunned viewers by suggesting that people could receive injections of disinfectant to cure the coronavirus, a notion one medical expert described as “jaw-dropping”……..
“And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute,” Trump said. “One minute! And is there a way we can do something, by an injection inside or almost a cleaning?

 

And Dr Birx's reaction to this suggestion is clear to see if you care to watch the online clip.

 

The man is clearly an idiot, plain and simple for all to see – – 

I think Americans, as is their right, should be given a free choice, lockdown at 50% pay or no lockdown and back to work. Dems can stay at home, Republicans can go out to work, bars, restaurants, ball games............let natural selection take its course.