SURVEY: Time to open up or not?

[Skeptic7]

3 hours ago, smutcakes said:

What do you mean let the individual deal with it?

It means take responsibility for yourself and deal with the information as the individual sees fit. People in the high risk "vulnerable" groups (or those just so frightened aka "scaredy cats") should take the proper actions necessary to protect themselves, if that suits them. If they don't want to take precautions...up to them. Meanwhile the VAST majority (99+%) of the rest of the world continues actually "living" life as usual. 

[moogradod]

15 minutes ago, transam said:

I have Corvid19 insurance, cost peanuts....

With 100,000 US$ coverage ? Would need insurance anyway only for the permission to reenter. If I contract the virus I would be dead anyway - or all the specialists lie.

[transam]

2 minutes ago, moogradod said:

With 100,000 US$ coverage ? Would need insurance anyway only for the permission to reenter. If I contract the virus I would be dead anyway - or all the specialists lie.

No, I live in LOS, if I get it the Corvid insurance takes care of me, if I pop off with it, my next of kin gets 1,000,000bht..

[Skeptic7]

54 minutes ago, Oldie said:

I think it is not that easy. Many older people here if they are not Thais have no health insurance but will cause a lot of problems and expenses if they get sick. Who will take care of this? 

For a bit of perspective...Tobacco causes way more expense and death every single day of every single year for decades...and tobacco is not banned. So i'll turn your question back atcha...who takes care of this? 

 

About 106,000 people die in Thailand each year from smoking-related diseases.

https://www.tobaccofreekids.org/problem/toll-global/asia/thailand

[moogradod]

15 minutes ago, transam said:

No, I live in LOS, if I get it the Corvid insurance takes care of me, if I pop off with it, my next of kin gets 1,000,000bht..

So do I. But I would like to visit Vietnam before October this year and if this is possible at all I would (maybe still) need a Covid-free certificate plus a 100,000 Covid insurance for boarding the return flight. Hope they will drop these requirements, though.

 

The 1 Mio is not so bad. Corresponds to the estimated treatment cost. But I do not need any treatment anymore if it catches me. I guess you may say that next of kin is my (Thai) wife, the only thing that would make sense if she would get the 1 Mio. May I ask what company and what premium ? Does not depend on age I suppose ?

[fourpack]

Well looking through the replies here thank God I don't live anywhere near most of you.

Talk about not seeing or more than likely not wanting to see the bigger picture.

But hey your life so I suggest opening say two soi's where you all can go and catch whatever you want.

Don't come moaning if you die mind

[Oldie]

17 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

For a bit of perspective...Tobacco causes way more expense and death every single day of every single year for decades...and tobacco is not banned. So i'll turn your question back atcha...who takes care of this? 

 

About 106,000 people die in Thailand each year from smoking-related diseases.

https://www.tobaccofreekids.org/problem/toll-global/asia/thailand

You are right. But if for instance a tourist or an expat here gets seriously sick because of Corona there is not much time to react and your options will be very limited. You might/will not be able to fly back to your home country. So you will be trapped here with your problem if you want it or not. Tobacco related diseases give you more time. 

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, superal said:

Restaurants , will you get served by a waitress with 2 meter long arms ? will the tables and chairs be sanitised after each sitting ?

Some restaurants did a lot of cleaning and distance between the tables before they were closed.

It seems the risk of getting the virus from touching the same surface that an infected person touched is very low. Looking at the stats and stories who got how infected there was always person to person contact - at least that is what I read. The possibility to get infected from surfaces is certainly not zero. But it seems very very low. I take that risk - at least in a place which is cleaned how a restaurant should be cleaned.

 

2 hours ago, superal said:

I believe Thailand and other SEA countries have avoided the virus plague by virtue of their climate and high UV rating more so than quarantine , testing and masking etc

Is there any UV light in Bangkok? I live here since forever and I don't get any darker skin, even in direct sunlight. Some time ago I visited a guy once a week in Minburi on my bike. I was maybe for 10 minutes exposed to sunlight in the Minburi area and my arms were brown when I returned. 10min vs all the time in inner city Bangkok. This is why I am convinced there is not much UV light in inner city Bangkok.

[papa al]

4 hours ago, smutcakes said:

Yawn, troll somewhere else.

 

I just did some quick search and found this, according to John Hopkins

 

COVID-19: Approximately 197,578 deaths reported worldwide; 51,949 deaths in the U.S., as of Apr. 25, 2020.*

 

Flu: 12,000 to 61,000 deaths in the U.S. per year.

 

So in 51 days since the 1st case in the US there have been 51,000 deaths compared to a normal yearly US total of up to 61,000. And this is with huge pressure on social distancing, stay at home etc. With exponential growth and no social distancing it would be a scary number. Not just normal flu.

 

I saw in UK news that 18 Transport for London Bus drivers have passed away.... is that like normal flu?

US hospitals are blaming deaths on Covid with no evidence.

NY mayor admits it.

Hospital gets paid more for Covid than for flu

 

Covid pays $7500

Pneumonia pays $3500

The doc can write whatever he wants

on the death certificate.

Car-wreck trauma, + Covid-19 comorbidity = $$$$$

 

[Tropposurfer]

I think cautious staged openings.

High density areas such as bars - unless outdoor areas exist and social distancing is observed, movie theatres, churches, mosques etc should not open for a while yet and be legislated so.

Schools can be re-opened if all kids are tested prior to re-entering the school precincts, class sizes reduced and distancing adhered to. 

Get back to drive-ins for movie enjoyment ????

Entrance numbers to other places such as gyms, beaches, parks, pro sports e.g. football, and other team sports (crowdless and only after all players and staff are tested and pronounced clear - and regular re-testing as is now done with drug testing), department stores and other shops, banks etc open but staff at entrances to limit entry numbers at any one time.

Hand sterilisation, mandatory wearing of masks (as is now in some countries).

Government organised systematic cleaning of public areas as we are seeing being taken up across many countries. 

 

No international travel. No one in no one out for a while longer.

Close all wet markets - worldwide.

Stop the sale and consumption of exotic animals worldwide as in Wuhan district i.e. bats (thought to be the origin of Covid 19).

National education programs in countries that have such wet markets to  educate the people how to and why such changes are needed to deflate the demand for such meats.

 

Herd immunity mentioned in posts in this thread is not assured with Covid 19 post-virus infection and recovery.

It appears that some of the 4 known strains of Covid see re-infection of previous infected people (not down to false negative readings on testing). We don't even know if the virus actually dies within the body of those infected as yet so talking about a developed natural immunity being developed within people is pure supposition (Sweden as a govt is included in this assumptive thinking). https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/25/us/who-immunity-antibodies-covid-19/index.html

https://www.mtpr.org/post/no-evidence-recovered-covid-19-patients-are-immune-who-says

https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/14/999515/why-simply-waiting-for-herd-immunity-to-covid-19-isnt-an-option/

In a nutshell herd immunity means: If you get enough people in the populace infected and recovered then the disease has nowhere to live and grow and therefore will all but die out (or be so small in infection rates per capita as to be acceptable to society).

 

I think mass testing with cost effective, fast, easy to get anywhere 15 minute tests such as the one developed at Chula Uni Hospital - BKK  https://www.chula.ac.th/en/news/28822/, the Netherlands https://www.hospimedica.com/covid-19/articles/294781366/new-rapid-coronavirus-test-gives-results-in-just-15-minutes.html, and England (sorry link I can't find - but saw the medical director of epidemiology speak directly to camera about and show the small hand held disposable device that tests not for antibodies (not definitive for not being infected) but for the virus itself. It differed from others test kits in that it was a nasal mucous sample test i.e. test for the virus not antibodies. 

Blanket testing with capacity to re-test randomly thereafter will identity infected, allow for targeted caring quarantining and allow the rest of the populace to move about and work.

 

This I think is the way to go a two pronged approach:

1. Pool world resources necessary (as in war time) to get these kit made and distributed as fast as can be, and pathology labs built by govt. to test for low low cost. 

Mobilise these actions through emergency legislation such as the War Act Trump has used to direct companies to switch production to make these test kits.

2. Provide the same open-door policy and procedures in asap vaccine development.

Use this experience to set up necessary medical supply factories and keep them working to manufacture masks, and all other PPE products so there are supplies for this and any other pandemic that comes down the pipe.

 

NOTE: The shortfall in, lack of production of, and stockpiles of PPE was flagged by the WHO and other major world health organisations some years back!!!!

Take back the pharmaceutical industry from offshore manufacturer and support development of factories and labs in lesser wealthy countries. Liberate this whole industry from the profit system, and make medicines of this type at super-cheap nationally run and funded prices.

 

 

 

[Sharp]

The great lock down hoax!! It will be referred to in due course!

[papa al]

27 minutes ago, sungod said:

Easy, I've just turned the other side of 50 and am not elderly. Unless you are a world renowned cage fighter in your 20's, then I'm up for some Marquis of Queensbury with you girls blouse......

boxing illegal now

[mauGR1]

12 minutes ago, papa al said:

US hospitals are blaming deaths on Covid with no evidence.

NY mayor admits it.

Hospital gets paid more for Covid than for flu

 

Covid pays $7500

Pneumonia pays $3500

The doc can write whatever he wants

on the death certificate.

Car-wreck trauma, + Covid-19 comorbidity = $$$$$

 

I really hope that this is not true, although in the current climate one can be expect anything.

[sungod]

20 minutes ago, papa al said:

boxing illegal now

I know, thats why i was gobbing off  ????

[lamyai3]

3 hours ago, Oldie said:

They should keep the existing curfew for people over 50 for a while until there is not so much danger for the elderly anymore. 

Are you worried people in their 50's are going to go around mugging the elderly? 

[Pilotman]

7 hours ago, fred110 said:

There never should have been a shutdown.

well said.  This whole sorry mess has been media driven from the beginning. Yes its bad, but there are worse things around that kill. The cure being worse than the disease has never been a more apt saying.  The world economy is being trashed while China sits back and waits to take advantage.  

Edited April 26, 2020 by Pilotman

[CGW]

8 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

Yes its bad, but there are worse things around that kill.

Exactly, if the same "risk standard/analysis" was applied to driving, there would never be a car on the road. Stairs - no far too dangerous, etc, etc....

But the media is continuing to push the agenda! Politicians are being caught out lying daily, The MSM, YouTube etc deletes anything that doesn't fit the agenda, just WHO is in the driving seat? 

[ParkerN]

8 hours ago, fred110 said:

There never should have been a shutdown.

 

That's probably a statement from someone who has not been infected.  Whilst everybody's entitled to an opinion, and in general, having an opinion is better than not having an opinion, I think I'd be inclined to take it more seriously if it had been prefixed by the words "I am a recovered COVID-19 patient".

 

 

[owl sees all]

Apart from having to wear uncomfortable masks to get into Big C and PEA, the C-19 has had little effect on us. No-one wears any mask around the village. Social distancing; having a laugh.

 

The best thing is the water throwing didn't happen this year, and the worst is that we couldn't eat in Big C as the eating area was closed.

 

Carry on like this I reckon. Cheap solar and benzine, better exchange rate soon.

[ParkerN]

1 hour ago, owl sees all said:

Apart from having to wear uncomfortable masks to get into Big C and PEA, the C-19 has had little effect on us. No-one wears any mask around the village. Social distancing; having a laugh.

 

The best thing is the water throwing didn't happen this year, and the worst is that we couldn't eat in Big C as the eating area was closed.

 

Carry on like this I reckon. Cheap solar and benzine, better exchange rate soon.

Yes, me too, but I couldn't find the right words, so thank you for doing that. There could be a silver lining to all this, with the Thai economy tanking, prices will go down (and if they don't go down because of the normal Thai reaction to hard times, at least they won't go up by very much - please God).

 

One hopes that Thailand will learn a little something about the value of having ex-pats in the country, and insofar as I'm concerned, anything that reduces the arrogance index of Thais in general is to be welcomed.

 

As a codicil to the above comment, I am regularly astonished to learn that no matter how bad their behaviour becomes it seems that most Thais would be horrified to think that I regard their their behaviour as often crossing over into arrogance. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting, I shall have to think about that for a bit, perhaps it's just a lack of self-confidence, which I'm taking the wrong way.

 

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by ParkerN

[Pilotman]

7 minutes ago, ParkerN said:

 

That's probably a statement from someone who has not been infected.  Whilst everybody's entitled to an opinion, and in general, having an opinion is better than not having an opinion, I think I'd be inclined to take it more seriously if it had been prefixed by the words "I am a recovered COVID-19 patient".

 

 

the vast majority of the world's population don't know if they have had it or not because hardly anyone is being tested. Every number you read is mere speculation, opinion, guess, shot in the dark; pick your own word for it.  

[Pilotman]

1 minute ago, ParkerN said:

Yes, me too, but I couldn't find the right words, so thank you for doing that. There could be a silver lining to all this, with the Thai economy tanking, prices will go down (and if they don't go down because of the normal Thai reaction to hard times, at least they won't go up by very much - please God).

 

One hopes that Thailand will learn a little something about the value of having ex-pats in the country, and insofar as I'm concerned, anything that reduces the arrogance index of Thais in general is to be welcomed.

it won't and they won't

[lagavulin1]

8 hours ago, UbonThani said:

Open up

You cannot stop disease

 

Smallpox, Polio, ring any bells? 

[CGW]

12 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Cheap solar and benzine, better exchange rate soon.

All comes at a price, 10,000 oil related jobs were lost just in Texas last week, cheap solar will go back years or be forgotten as cannot compete with cheap oil.

Better exchange rate against what? don't place any money on the MIGHTY Baht falling!

[lagavulin1]

31 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

well said.  This whole sorry mess has been media driven from the beginning. Yes its bad, but there are worse things around that kill. The cure being worse than the disease has never been a more apt saying.  The world economy is being trashed while China sits back and waits to take advantage.  

 An asymptomatic carrier can infect 60000 people indirectly. How many deaths do you want on your hands. 

[kingdong]

6 hours ago, robbioff said:

Exactly...for a virus that is only really dangerous for the over 70’s with underlying issues, why punish the whole population with this lockdown  b/s? Life has to go on.

Got a link to support your claim?

[ParkerN]

1 hour ago, Pilotman said:

the vast majority of the world's population don't know if they have had it or not because hardly anyone is being tested. Every number you read is mere speculation, opinion, guess, shot in the dark; pick your own word for it.  

 

 That seems like a good point of commentary.

 

 

[Pilotman]

5 minutes ago, lagavulin1 said:

 An asymptomatic carrier can infect 60000 people indirectly. How many deaths do you want on your hands. 

says who? 

[Relocated]

40 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

well said.  This whole sorry mess has been media driven from the beginning. Yes its bad, but there are worse things around that kill. The cure being worse than the disease has never been a more apt saying.  The world economy is being trashed while China sits back and waits to take advantage.  

If this happen again, the media has to lock down first.

[olfu]

6 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The problem is that many people are stupid. If nobody tells them what to do they do whatever they want - without any thinking.

If all people would be smart and rational then we wouldn't need speed controls, laws which don't allow driving under influence and laws against many more stupid activities. Fact is those laws are necessary to stop at least many if stupid idiots.

Probably. But why we have laws against prostitution?