Bangkok Air Pollution 2020

[DaveInSukhumvit]

On 3/19/2020 at 10:47 AM, MayPutThai said:

The point is, the Millions of house waste burner behind the house. They burn everything. So, how the Thai did over century. But the modern Thai burn even all the plastic and other <deleted>. This, on low Temperature produces a very good cocktail of very poison and cancer-generous gas like Dioxin (Seveso). 

Can you (or anyone) confirm that it is common for residential homes in BKK to burn everything outside?  I can see about 20-30 Thai homes from my condo in Onnut.  I have never seen any burning.  But sometimes in the morning I smell smoke. 

Thanks for sharing this perspective. 

[MaxYakov]

28 minutes ago, DaveInSukhumvit said:

Can you (or anyone) confirm that it is common for residential homes in BKK to burn everything outside?  I can see about 20-30 Thai homes from my condo in Onnut.  I have never seen any burning.  But sometimes in the morning I smell smoke. 

Thanks for sharing this perspective. 

I've seen burning several times, but olnly Chinese-Thai burning Joss paper. My landlord does it regularly, but I don't say anything. Being a farang, I would be ignored anyway. Superstition over Science (and Safety) is one of the elements of Thainess.

[Yom]

18 minutes ago, DaveInSukhumvit said:

But sometimes in the morning I smell smoke.

We had this(?) smell 20 minutes ago. The PM2.5 meter went up to 200 ug/m3

from about 40 before. Someone was cooking lunch on a charcoal fire.

It's less expensive than gas ...

[blackcab]

On 3/25/2020 at 12:30 PM, DaveInSukhumvit said:

Can you (or anyone) confirm that it is common for residential homes in BKK to burn everything outside?

 

It's not common in the Sukhumvit areas of Bangkok, but it can happen. The refuse collection in Bangkok is very good, so there is little need to burn refuse.

[DaveInSukhumvit]

Thanks for your replies regarding residential garbage burning.

Once this Covid mess has settled, I hope we all get a historic perspective about the shutdown impact on local air pollution.  Air has been so much better than before.  But weather patterns have changed also.  Constituent pollution level differences would be interesting (NO2/diesel, heavy metals/ewaste, etc .

[Yom]

DaveInSukhumvit

Bangkok should be ok today.
North is very bad.

          ***********

[DaveInSukhumvit]

Not my favorite April morning.  Seems like slow wind speed and burning is cause.  Thai friend says farmers think rainy season is starting so they burn rice stubble. I'm no expert on this, but with all the rain around BKK yesterday, it must have been the outskirts.  FIRMS doesn't show a lot of fires.

 

[TerraplaneGuy]

1 hour ago, DaveInSukhumvit said:

Not my favorite April morning.  Seems like slow wind speed and burning is cause.  Thai friend says farmers think rainy season is starting so they burn rice stubble. I'm no expert on this, but with all the rain around BKK yesterday, it must have been the outskirts.  FIRMS doesn't show a lot of fires.

 

Yes it’s a drag just when we were getting used to clean air for a change (and one of the few good things these days given the lockdown etc). I just fired up my air purifier for the first time in at least a week.  

[DaveInSukhumvit]

This looks interesting.  Can anybody guess where the South Bangkok Power Plant is located?????????????



Show of hands, who thinks it is a good idea to light a coal plant from South with winds blowing North?


 

[Yom]

2 hours ago, DaveInSukhumvit said:

where the South Bangkok Power Plant is located?

It's not so difficult to find?

https://www.egat.co.th/en/information/power-plants-and-dams?view=article&id=40

'The South Bangkok project was originally a thermal power plant

fueled with bunker oil. Later when natural gas was discovered in

the Gulf of Thailand, the modification was made for the power plant

to be combined cycle using natural gas instead of bunker oil.'

 

You should be glad you're not living near Lampang or Tak.

These are lignite fired power plants (Mae Moh/Mae Sot).

Another quality than natural gas...

                  ***********************

 

' winds blowing North? '

At this moment they seem to blow constantly from East with 3 - 4 mph

in 10, 100 and 250 m above ground level.

 

[DaveInSukhumvit]

21 hours ago, Yom said:

It's not so difficult to find?

https://www.egat.co.th/en/information/power-plants-and-dams?view=article&id=40

'The South Bangkok project was originally a thermal power plant

fueled with bunker oil. Later when natural gas was discovered in

the Gulf of Thailand, the modification was made for the power plant

to be combined cycle using natural gas instead of bunker oil.'

 

You should be glad you're not living near Lampang or Tak.

These are lignite fired power plants (Mae Moh/Mae Sot).

Another quality than natural gas...

                  ***********************

 

' winds blowing North? '

At this moment they seem to blow constantly from East with 3 - 4 mph

in 10, 100 and 250 m above ground level.

 

Thanks Khun Yom for your comments.  No worries about correcting me.  Probably we both know that the South Power Plant is located next to the red 155 AQI reading from yesterday.

 

Today the airflow shows the same (from the South) and AQI is much better~60.  Sometimes it is so simple as emissions from a power plant - maybe this is one of those times, maybe not.  Something is amiss.  Why do you think the reading was so high in that area yesterday, but not today?

[Yom]

2 hours ago, DaveInSukhumvit said:

Why do you think the reading was so high in that area yesterday, but not today?

Interesting question.

I think there might be several causes? Depends amongst other things how high the power plant chimneys might be, the wind speed, the exact wind direction at a given date etc.

Or, the stuff they were burning. Or, one day they were burning from 8 to 5, the next day?

Only some thoughts. A professional might give you a better answer?

But, what do you think?

 

 

[MaxYakov]

54 minutes ago, Yom said:

Interesting question.

I think there might be several causes? Depends amongst other things how high the power plant chimneys might be, the wind speed, the exact wind direction at a given date etc.

Or, the stuff they were burning. Or, one day they were burning from 8 to 5, the next day?

Only some thoughts. A professional might give you a better answer?

But, what do you think?

 

 

Or an intermittently defective sensor or something other than the power plant that is local to the sensor. I'm always ignoring outlying reading like the one identified as the Din Daeng Housing Authority which often gives high readings. On the other hand maybe there is a high-pollution source near the DDHA sensor.

[DaveInSukhumvit]

6 hours ago, Yom said:

Interesting question.

I think there might be several causes? Depends amongst other things how high the power plant chimneys might be, the wind speed, the exact wind direction at a given date etc.

Or, the stuff they were burning. Or, one day they were burning from 8 to 5, the next day?

Only some thoughts. A professional might give you a better answer?

But, what do you think?

 

 

The wind direction and speed for yesterday and today is virtually the same.  Pollution levels all over BKK were significantly higher yesterday than today.  A pollution hot spot is shown in red near the Phra Nakhon Tai Power Plant.  I think that plant was the difference in air quality.  Otherwise, the wind off the ocean was pretty good for both days with little evidence of transboundary pollution. 

I did read up on combined cycle power plants, and this plant in particular.  Phra Nakhon Tha (AKA South BKK Power Plant) is a dual fuel design burning natural gas and diesel.  Either fuel can be a large contributor to PM2.5 (the dominant factor in yesterday's high readings).  I think they brought more generators online yesterday because other sources of power were offline ... or perhaps switched fuel sources one day to the next ... or a combination.

I don't think it was a bad meter in that location.  I have 2 meters.  Both read significantly higher yesterday than today.  Also Air Visual numbers (shown above) are not perfect, but do generally represent fair readings in the areas shown.  My meters confirm those readings and the government stations.

*Not a professional.  Multiple heads are better than one.

[Yom]

A fast 'thanks' to you and your thoughts.

 

But, please don't take 'your' PowerPlant and their values too seriously.

There is so many dirt in the air, from Afghanistan to Japan,

from India to Mongolia, China etc.

The work should/must begin there first.

 

In the meantime? Duck and Cover?

Close doors and windows etc.

Everybody is responsible for it's own health?

 

I have great pity on the people who can't afford things like an air purifier

or a PM2.5-reader.

 

Hope you're well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TerraplaneGuy]

19 hours ago, DaveInSukhumvit said:

The wind direction and speed for yesterday and today is virtually the same.  Pollution levels all over BKK were significantly higher yesterday than today.  A pollution hot spot is shown in red near the Phra Nakhon Tai Power Plant.  I think that plant was the difference in air quality.  Otherwise, the wind off the ocean was pretty good for both days with little evidence of transboundary pollution. 

I did read up on combined cycle power plants, and this plant in particular.  Phra Nakhon Tha (AKA South BKK Power Plant) is a dual fuel design burning natural gas and diesel.  Either fuel can be a large contributor to PM2.5 (the dominant factor in yesterday's high readings).  I think they brought more generators online yesterday because other sources of power were offline ... or perhaps switched fuel sources one day to the next ... or a combination.

I don't think it was a bad meter in that location.  I have 2 meters.  Both read significantly higher yesterday than today.  Also Air Visual numbers (shown above) are not perfect, but do generally represent fair readings in the areas shown.  My meters confirm those readings and the government stations.

*Not a professional.  Multiple heads are better than one.

It was definitely a bad day on Tuesday, according to my monitor on Sathorn near BTS Chong Nonsi. 

[DaveInSukhumvit]

Another "special day" today leaving us to wonder why all the air pollution in BKK.  AFIK, it is all "self created" likely from factories starting up and burning.  (#MyTheory)
Air flow is shows that outside of BKK - on all sides - air is good.  Sad that we do this.






 

 

[JimShorts]

On 4/25/2020 at 9:36 AM, DaveInSukhumvit said:

Another "special day" today leaving us to wonder why all the air pollution in BKK.  AFIK, it is all "self created" likely from factories starting up and burning.  (#MyTheory)
Air flow is shows that outside of BKK - on all sides - air is good.  Sad that we do this.






 

 

Yes I noticed too, very interesting. Would really like to know the source. Especially considering there are much less autos on the streets. Some of it could be construction related?

[thedemon]

According to weather maps the wind direction is from the north and north-east now which usually means more haze. But it's a beautiful clear day today. Strange.

 

Both the temperature and humidity are a little bit lower this morning. That seems to be a factor. Maybe.

[MaxYakov]

1 hour ago, thedemon said:

According to weather maps the wind direction is from the north and north-east now which usually means more haze. But it's a beautiful clear day today. Strange.

 

Both the temperature and humidity are a little bit lower this morning. That seems to be a factor. Maybe.

Cannot rely on the weather maps. Best current wind and rain info is taken personally, outside IMHO.

[jojothai]

This can be moved into the pollution thread.

Its been very good for a while, as one may expect with reduced activity.

But this morning is a different story

AQI 140-170.

I thought the lockdown was extended yesterday.

Did i miss something?

 

[DaveInSukhumvit]

redundant

[DaveInSukhumvit]

On 4/28/2020 at 8:31 AM, MaxYakov said:

Cannot rely on the weather maps. Best current wind and rain info is taken personally, outside IMHO.

Thanks Max.  This is the second comment I have seen questioning wind direction and it caused me to learn something new.  I turns out that the Ventusky wind map last update was 12PM UTC (or 1AM BKK time).  I think they only update 4x/day.  This could make the readings off a little or a lot depending on wind changes.  I think Ventusky and AirVisual (pollution map) use similar models b/c they usually show same airflow patterns.



 

[Jimbo2014]

You havnt missed a thing and I thank you for posting this.  It boggles the mind that this government,  in a complete lockdown, is incapable of controlling the pollution.  This can only mean there is rampant burning taking place around Bangkok.  Cant anyone enforce anything other than an alcohol ban in this country?  Pollution has been shown to aid the spread of Covid and also cause major long term damage to the lungs and other organs exceeding Covid yet no-one seems to care.  The government is trying to promote outdoor cafes to limit the spread then kills people with the poor quality of the air.  The ship is sinking faster and all the lifeboats are almost gone.

[JimShorts]

Again today with the air pollution being high. This morning almost 160 reading on Airvisual. It is very odd (as noted) with so much less traffic and no burning (as can be seen from the Nasa Fire watch). It must be industrial and/or construction. It seems to mostly be coming from the areas west of Bangkok. I don't personally know much about those areas and if they have a lot of industry and/or construction. I would assume most the construction is in Bangkok. 

[JimShorts]

Harvard published a study on the link between air pollution (PM2.5) and Covid-19. The results are pretty crazy. 

 

Results: We found that an increase of only 1 μg/m3 in PM2.5 is associated with an 8% increase in the COVID-19 death rate (95% confidence interval [CI]: 2%, 15%). The results were statistically significant and robust to secondary and sensitivity analyses.

 

Data sources: COVID-19 death counts were collected for more than 3,000 counties in the United States (representing 98% of the population) up to April 22, 2020 from Johns Hopkins University, Center for Systems Science and Engineering Coronavirus Resource Center.

 

Study Source: https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/covid-pm/home

[jojothai]

Agree,

Crazy that they dont do anything much to curb the burning etc.

I dont see traffic that much reduced as expected. Rush hour obviously much less, but there still seems to be plenty on the roads during the day.

Ratchadapisek, rama 4, sukhumvit nearby.

So there still seems to be plenty of activity.

I see we have some rain now.

That was predicted yesterday.

Lets hope it helps to clear up some of this.

[Misty]

1 hour ago, JimShorts said:

Again today with the air pollution being high. This morning almost 160 reading on Airvisual. It is very odd (as noted) with so much less traffic and no burning (as can be seen from the Nasa Fire watch). It must be industrial and/or construction. It seems to mostly be coming from the areas west of Bangkok. I don't personally know much about those areas and if they have a lot of industry and/or construction. I would assume most the construction is in Bangkok. 

 

 

In Asoke-Thonglor area of Bangkok, it is high now and was high last night too. Industrial or construction makes sense, although not that much visible construction going on in this area, and certainly nothing new or unusual in the last day or so.  Plastic garbage burning? See "Plastic use soars after dine-in ban" 9 Apr from the source that cannot be named or linked to.

[DaveInSukhumvit]

I know one source of pollution right now.  Onnut Garbage dump is burning.  Sorry about those to the West


 

[DaveInSukhumvit]

Onnut Dump wishing residents to the West a good morning ????