Retirement Visa expires 31st May.

[pingping]

Hi, My Retirement visa expires 31st May my home is in Chiangmai but currently I am staying in Chumphon South Thailand, do I have to be back in Chiangmai to renew it before the 31st May or am I included in the current amnesty and have until I have until the 31st July. Thanks in advance!

[DrJack54]

Here we go. You will get mixed responses. 

I assume your referring to your current permission of stay (extension) based on retirement. 

I would renew it prior to May 31 in CM

Edited April 29, 2020 by DrJack54

[ubonjoe]

You need to apply for your extension. It is not clear if you could easily apply for another one if you let it expire and tried later under the "amnesty".

If you formally changed your address to Chumphon you could apply for your extension at immigration there.

[Peter Denis]

When your permission to stay expires after 26 March you are not required to visit your IO to extend it, as everybody's permission to stay is extended till the end of the Amnesty (31 July).

So there will be NO fines and NO bans to re-enter the country, as you will be covered by the Amnesty.

HOWEVER, it is not sure that IO will be willing to extend your 1-year permission to stay when you did not apply for it before your present permission to stay expired.  There will be no fine or ban from that, but in that case you would have to start from scratch again to apply for a new Visa and subsequent extension.  It is possible your local IO will be lenient for those that did not do it (and surely when roadblocks or lock-downs prevented you from doing it), but there are 2 reports of IOs that confirmed you would have to leave the country and re-apply for a new Visa in case you did not extend your 1-year permission to stay when it was due.

So better check with your IO what would be the consequences of not doing it.

[pingping]

Yes I have been getting mixed messages, I own my home in chiangmai so could not change my formal address.The airport at Chumphon is not opening until June and the same with flights from Surat Thani direct to Chiangmai. I could fly from Surat Thani to Bkk and take another plane to Chiangmai, just don't want to risk it. Thanks for your help

Edited April 29, 2020 by pingping

[HarrySeaman]

As I understand it, the automatic visa extension applies to tourist visas and Non O retirement or marriage visa holders.  It does not apply to Non O-A retirement visas.

 

I recommend you mask up, pocket an alcohol gel dispenser, and go to the Thai Immigration Office closest to where you are staying and ask what to do.  Of course what they tell you there will only apply to that office since TIT but it is the safest course of action.  The last thing you want to do is overstay.

 

My guess, and it is only a guess, is that you might be able to get a 30 or 60 day extension, which of course will cost you extra but should allow time for travel restrictions to be relaxed.  This is what I would do if I was in your predicament.

[roath]

23 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You need to apply for your extension. It is not clear if you could easily apply for another one if you let it expire and tried later under the "amnesty".

If you formally changed your address to Chumphon you could apply for your extension at immigration there.

Has anyone translated the actual order which may or may not have clarification as to the actual technical status of the extension?

 

According to the infographic posted online in English and Thai (and which seem to emanate from Immigration), there is an automatic extension of stay for ALL visa types until 31st July, so according to this, nobody should have over-stayed their visa/extension permissions, provided they apply before the end of the automatic extension, in which case, they shouldn't need to have to get a new visa. 

 

I am not saying that I don't appreciate that IOs won't come up with their own interpretations, but respectfully (for what little it is worth), I don't believe that on the basis of the automatic extension, they would be legally correct in requiring applicants to obtain new visas.

 

It's madness that they are issuing legal advice effectively on the back on a postcard as a one size fits all approach, but TIT

[markwhite]

I prepared my 90 day report yesterday half expecting to be told that it wasn't needed because of the delay order, but they* just dealt with it as usual. I also asked when I should apply for an extension to the non-OA based on retirement which expires on 15th May and they said to bring the paperwork in about a week beforehand. So no reference was made to the delay order, but that doesn't mean to say it won't be different again at Chiang Mai.

 

*Nakhon Si Thammarat immigration office.

[ubonjoe]

20 minutes ago, HarrySeaman said:

It does not apply to Non O-A retirement visas.

That is not correct. If the one year entry from a OA visa was to end and a person could not apply for an extension or leave the country they could stay until July 31st.

 

21 minutes ago, HarrySeaman said:

My guess, and it is only a guess, is that you might be able to get a 30 or 60 day extension, which of course will cost you extra but should allow time for travel restrictions to be relaxed. 

There is no 30 day extension possible. A 60 day extension is possible if married to or the parent of a Thai.

[Peter Denis]

11 minutes ago, HarrySeaman said:

As I understand it, the automatic visa extension applies to tourist visas and Non O retirement or marriage visa holders.  It does not apply to Non O-A retirement visas.

...

Why would the automatic extension of your permission to stay, apply to those on a 1-year extension based on a Non Imm O - Visa (retirement or marriage or otherwise) and NOT for a 1-year extension based on a Non Imm O-A Visa?

The automatic extension applies to ALL those that have a permission to stay that expires after 26 March.  It covers those that entered VisaExempt, or on a TouristVisa or on a Non Imm O Visa that provided them a 90-day permission to stay.  And it also covers those staying in Thailand on a 1-year extension of their original Non Imm O or O-A Visa.

The sole criterium being a permission to stay stamped in your passport that expires after 26 March.

Note: What is not 100% sure is whether your local IO will be able or willing - after the Amnesty - to extend the 1-year permission to stay of your Non Imm O or O-A Visa, when the permission to stay date of that Visa has expired.  In that case you would be forced to exit Thailand and apply for a new Non Imm O Visa from scratch.  

Since the local IOs are currently not very busy, it is therefore recommended to extend the 1-year permission to stay of your Non Imm O or O-A Visa before your permission to stay expires.

When that is difficult, it is worthwhile to contact your local IO whether they would be able/willing to extend your permission to stay after the Amnesty, so that at least you would not be taken by surprise. 

 

[ubonjoe]

21 minutes ago, roath said:

Has anyone translated the actual order which may or may not have clarification as to the actual technical status of the extension?

It has been translated. There is nothing in specifically in it about long stay extensions (one year or 90 days).

It only mentions permits to stay.

If a person's extension was to end they could stay until July 31st but what is not clear if a person could apply for another extension on or before the 31st of July with having problems doing it.

[CMBob]

Some of these comments are a bit confusing.  So would ask Ubonjoe to respond to the following regarding somebody here on an annual extension based on retirement:

(1)  Do you believe the "permission thru July 31st" applies in any respect to somebody here on that basis where the annual extension based on retirement expires, let's say, May 31st?

(2)  If you think it does apply at all, is the application involve a waiver of any overstay fine?

(3)  If you think it does apply, what about the annual extension itself that expires May 31st.  Is it history (meaning gone) or do you think Immigration would allow an

application for a new annual extension on July 31st or some short time thereafter?

(4)  If you think there is only minimal application (waiver of overstay fines only), then would it be correct to say the person has to apply for another annual extension on or prior to May 31st?

[DrJack54]

If you have an annual extension as per OP extension (retirement) due during amnesty period then DO IT. 

No need to make simple difficult.

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by DrJack54

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, CMBob said:

(1)  Do you believe the "permission thru July 31st" applies in any respect to somebody here on that basis where the annual extension based on retirement expires, let's say, May 31st?

(2)  If you think it does apply at all, is the application involve a waiver of any overstay fine?

(3)  If you think it does apply, what about the annual extension itself that expires May 31st.  Is it history (meaning gone) or do you think Immigration would allow an

application for a new annual extension on July 31st or some short time thereafter?

(4)  If you think there is only minimal application (waiver of overstay fines only), then would it be correct to say the person has to apply for another annual extension on or prior to May 31st?

1. If a person did not or could not apply for the extension the could stay until July 31st.

2. No

3. That is unknown. But there is a good chance it would be lost. Best of apply for the extension unless you cannot meet the requirements.

[anfh]

Mine is due on 2nd May. I have already renewed it on 26th April, as I aske at the IO. 

according to local IO at jomtiem, the amnesty does not apply to these extensions etc. If you intend to stay in Thailand for another year and have relevant funds etc etc then you need to renew. The amnesty is there to help those stuck here who do not actually want to stay, but cannot leave due to situation. You obviously do not want to leave, so need to renew. 
many people put different views on here. You can believe what you want. However, my advise to you and anyone else, is, do not rely on stuff on here. Go or contact your own local IO and ask them to varify. Failure to confirm directly with them, and rely on mere opinions from people on here can leave you up the waterway without a means of propulsion !!! 

[edwardflory]

Be SMART:

Extension of stay based on retirement or marriage is NOT A VISA although called such.

 

My IO said I must renew my "extension of stay based on retirement BEFORE IT EXPIRES",  I did so in about 7 minutes because I had all the paperwork, up to date, with me.

 

Many IO's are almost empty - depnding where you live.  Make a call to YOUR IO to find out what YOU are required to do.

Edited April 30, 2020 by edwardflory
spelling

[Max69xl]

On 4/29/2020 at 4:49 PM, pingping said:

Yes I have been getting mixed messages, I own my home in chiangmai so could not change my formal address.The airport at Chumphon is not opening until June and the same with flights from Surat Thani direct to Chiangmai. I could fly from Surat Thani to Bkk and take another plane to Chiangmai, just don't want to risk it. Thanks for your help.

Domestic flights will start this week,so you are able to get back to CM in time for your extension. If you read the amnesty,it says that it covers every type of visa/extension until July 31 if you're "affected" by the coronavirus situation. If you can't get back home because of lockdowns or no domestic flights etc etc, then you're covered by the amnesty, but now you can fly back home without any problems. If you don't have to self isolate 14 days when you're back home, then you can't say that you're affected by the coronavirus situation at all and should apply for your extension as usual. 

[pingping]

The Chumphon airport doesn't open until June the 1st. and there are no direct flights from Surat Thani to Chiangmai until June 1st also I will be quarantined in Chiangmai for 14days if I go before June 1st  I will have to take a bus for aprox. 2.5 hrs from where I am staying to Surat Thani airport. I already have done a 14 day self isolation when I arrived in Chumphon last month don't wish to do another one.

[roath]

7 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

1. If a person did not or could not apply for the extension the could stay until July 31st.

2. No

3. That is unknown. But there is a good chance it would be lost. Best of apply for the extension unless you cannot meet the requirements.

According to their information, the Covid extension acts as an automatic 'extension of temporary stay in the Kingdom' without qualification, which terminology (temporary stay) on the normal interpretative basis applies to basically all forms of visa. Therefore, there shouldn't be a problem just extending in the same way as any other extension before expiry (i.e. before 31st July). I appreciate that that's my opinion, but it's madness that there are (and can be) differing views on the issue. Immigration shouldn't on the one hand be saying that there is an automatic extension and then on the other having IOs say that by relying on the Covid automatic extension, you lose your right to extend normally. In my view, any IO applying that (lack of) logic would be open to a challenge at administrative court, but FGS who would want to risk that?  This shouldn't be an issue open for interpretation by individual IOs and someone should be trying to get Immigration to (urgently) clarify the issue (yeah, I know, who?). 

[roath]

4 hours ago, Max69xl said:

Domestic flights will start this week,so you are able to get back to CM in time for your extension. If you read the amnesty,it says that it covers every type of visa/extension until July 31 if you're "affected" by the coronavirus situation. If you can't get back home because of lockdowns or no domestic flights etc etc, then you're covered by the amnesty, but now you can fly back home without any problems. If you don't have to self isolate 14 days when you're back home, then you can't say that you're affected by the coronavirus situation at all and should apply for your extension as usual. 

You can change where you are registered by filing a TM28 which provides a new 'permanent' address. It doesn't matter if you own the property that you live in or not (it may be an issue if you have a yellow books/pink cards, as in theory you are meant to change your registration with the amphur also, but that's not an immigration issue).

 

Once you have filed a new TM28, and presuming that you've filed the TM30 at that address, then (as I understand), you then treat your local office as your normal office for extensions/90 days/etc. 

 

Obviously, when things get back to normal, you can change back for the following. Whether there will be questions asked about chopping and changing, I don't know and maybe someone else has some experience of that. 

 

If you have been following the discussion with Ubonjoe, there is clearly a question mark at the moment about what the status of visas extended by the covid extension will be, and for that reason, if the OP can extend normally within time, he would be best advised so to do at the present time

 

[roath]

14 hours ago, edwardflory said:

Be SMART:

Extension of stay based on retirement or marriage is NOT A VISA although called such.

 

My IO said I must renew my "extension of stay based on retirement BEFORE IT EXPIRES",  I did so in about 7 minutes because I had all the paperwork, up to date, with me.

 

Many IO's are almost empty - depnding where you live.  Make a call to YOUR IO to find out what YOU are required to do.

They may well argue that they are keeping things simple, even though it's not the correct terminology, but it's worth noting that even Immigration refer to Marriage Visas and Retirement Visas rather than extensions of Non-immigrant visa for the purposes of etc...

 

I have a problem completing my form for extension every year as it asks what 'Visa' I am have. Since originally obtaining a Non-Immigration Visa, I have changed the basis of stay so my original category is not the category I wish to extend, so even the forms are incorrect, but what can you do? 

 

[roath]

12 hours ago, pingping said:

The Chumphon airport doesn't open until June the 1st. and there are no direct flights from Surat Thani to Chiangmai until June 1st also I will be quarantined in Chiangmai for 14days if I go before June 1st  I will have to take a bus for aprox. 2.5 hrs from where I am staying to Surat Thani airport. I already have done a 14 day self isolation when I arrived in Chumphon last month don't wish to do another one.

A friend of mine just flew from Chiang Mai to Surat Thani to get back to Koh Samui a few days ago, so if flights are going one way, it seems unlikely that they aren't doing a return journey (even if you have to fly to BKK and then BKK to CM)

 

If you have accommodation to go to in CM, you don't have to go to quarantine, but can self-isolate at home (which in reality we are all doing anyway as most things are closed) but you can still go out for shopping for essentials and also to go to immigration

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, roath said:

I have a problem completing my form for extension every year as it asks what 'Visa' I am have. Since originally obtaining a Non-Immigration Visa, I have changed the basis of stay so my original category is not the category I wish to extend, so even the forms are incorrect, but what can you do? 

That really means nothing. You are extending the permit to stay you got from the visa you used to get that permit to stay. It does not matter what non immigrant visa category it was.

[ubonjoe]

22 minutes ago, roath said:

The Chumphon airport doesn't open until June the 1st.

I checked Air Asia and they are showing flights from there starting tomorrow. But Nok Air is not  showing any until June. They also have flights to Chiang Mai then.

[OJAS]

12 hours ago, pingping said:

The Chumphon airport doesn't open until June the 1st. and there are no direct flights from Surat Thani to Chiangmai until June 1st also I will be quarantined in Chiangmai for 14days if I go before June 1st  I will have to take a bus for aprox. 2.5 hrs from where I am staying to Surat Thani airport. I already have done a 14 day self isolation when I arrived in Chumphon last month don't wish to do another one.

If you use the 800k bank balance method for proving finances for your retirement extensions you might also be eligible for a fresh non-O visa from the Royal Thai Consulate in Penang, if push were to come to shove in your case on 31st July. Certainly trips between Chumphon and Penang look pretty convenient on paper as the crow flies, but I don't know how complicated and time-consuming they might prove in practice.

[Peter Denis]

23 minutes ago, roath said:

1 - They may well argue that they are keeping things simple, even though it's not the correct terminology, but it's worth noting that even Immigration refer to Marriage Visas and Retirement Visas rather than extensions of Non-immigrant visa for the purposes of etc...

 

2 - I have a problem completing my form for extension every year as it asks what 'Visa' I am have. Since originally obtaining a Non-Immigration Visa, I have changed the basis of stay so my original category is not the category I wish to extend, so even the forms are incorrect, but what can you do? 

 

1 - Fully agree.  A Visa, a permission to stay and an extension of stay are different things, and it's not 'keeping it simple' when referring to all of the above as 'Visa'.  On the contrary it confuses everything, as people have to interpret what is meant when IO mentions a 'Visa'.

2 - When applying for an extension of stay, it needs to be based on the TYPE of Visa on which you originally entered (e.g. a Non Imm O Visa, or a Non Imm O-A Visa).

You cannot switch to a different TYPE of Visa when applying for an extension of stay.  But you can change the CATEGORY you are applying for (e.g. an extension for reason of marriage, or an extension for reason of retirement, etc.).

[WorriedNoodle]

On 4/29/2020 at 4:49 PM, pingping said:

I own my home in chiangmai so could not change my formal address.

Why not? I have done this before (albeit outside of this covirus period) whereby I own my home in Bangkok but went to the IO in a southern province with the required TM30 change of address notification along with support documents from the home owners place I was staying at down south. Then the IO down south let me do my 1 year extension based on retirement. There is absolutely no reason to return to my home for this.

[Blue Muton]

I went to my local immigration office earlier this week. They were very clear in telling me that annual extensions of stay for retirement or marriage were not included in the amnesty and that I must apply just as I normally would have to.

 

Best to follow earlier advice and check with your local office.

[roath]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

That really means nothing. You are extending the permit to stay you got from the visa you used to get that permit to stay. It does not matter what non immigrant visa category it was.

I agree. The point was that immigration use incorrect terminology on their form and frequently refer to Retirement Visas etc. when of course there are debates constantly online that technically there's no such thing and once visa expired it becomes an extension rather than a visa etc. I was just commenting on lack of clarity from immigration on a number of issues, including of course the current issue about what they mean by the current automatic extension, which as I have mentioned previously IMHPO using the natural meaning of the term (from a legal interpretative perspective) means that the original extension should be capable of further extension without a new visa being required. etc. etc. ????

 

[roath]

1 hour ago, WorriedNoodle said:

Why not? I have done this before (albeit outside of this covirus period) whereby I own my home in Bangkok but went to the IO in a southern province with the required TM30 change of address notification along with support documents from the home owners place I was staying at down south. Then the IO down south let me do my 1 year extension based on retirement. There is absolutely no reason to return to my home for this.

Just to clarify, the TM27 is the form required for changing permanent address. The TM30 is simply the form for notifying that you are staying at an address. Filing a TM30 does  not mean that you have changed address. It is possible that if you inform immigration that this is your new permanent address when filing a TM30, that they will automatically do the TM28 notification for you