True Value Of Land In Thailand

[GARYGANG]

Thanks to everyone for their input. Much appreciated!

 

For clarity, my girlfirend is Thai and she moved to the UK following her marriage in Bangkok in 2007. Her ex-husband is english.

 

The first part of divorce (Decree Nisi) was granted in October 2018 but the financial argument has been going on for years now.

 

The land was gifted to her solely in her name in 2011 and is still completely controlled by her mother who lives next to it.

 

As much as I am sure it's Sin Suan Tua, I just don't think the English courts are interested in Thai Property Law.

 

 

I was anticipating that there are no public records for actual property sale prices in Thailand so that is all we can do is discredit their valuations if they are again massively inflated as I expect.

 

Just can't believe that they are making her pay half toward £3k for another valuation and we can't do anything about it.

 

Fingers crossed it all works out!

 

 

 

 

 

[samtab]

do you know if prices in Esarn really increase ?! cam you compare with 10 years ago ? thanks.

[ukrules]

4 hours ago, misterphil said:

My wife has 4 Rai of rice farm land In Saraburi thats supposably worth 600,000 THB so 150,000 per Rai.  She rents it out at 4,000 THB per month. 

A solid 8% yield.

 

This is how I would work out the value of something, find out how much it costs to rent something similar and nearby then decide on a decent yield and work it from there.

 

[stephen savell]

Yes  it is amazing really , my wife went to buy some land in the north east. They told her one price and as soon as i came around the corner and they seen i was  a westerner, the price rose  150,000  baht at once. Wife said to me, its hopeless!  The locals can't help themselves, they feel obligated to scam you when your married to a westerner. She then politely told the land owner to stick the land where the sun does not shine.  Thailand - land of smiles - no' its the land of scams!

[stephen savell]

Issan,  i recall  i could have bought land there around 12 years back for 50,000 baht 1 Rai - but who would want it?

Ok if it gets you a decent return, but ah well a decent return on a anything in Thailand is hard to get.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, GARYGANG said:

Just can't believe that they are making her pay half toward £3k for another valuation and we can't do anything about it.

She could leave the UK and return to Thailand.

There's no way for anyone to enforce a divorce settlement made in the UK if they aren't there.

But presumably she's trying to grab a chunk of his house and pension in the UK, but doesn't want the award offset by the value of her land in Thailand. It ain't gonna work!

[wolf81]

8 hours ago, a10ams said:

My experience in a Thai village, albeit seven years ago, is about 100k a rai. Prices haven't shot up since then by any means. 

 

I like the above suggestion of asking the ex-husband if he wants to buy out your GF at 50% of his evaluation.

 

I doubt if they're queuing halfway round the block at the local estate agent to snap up land at his prices.

 

Got a mate who's ex missus contested the house/property sale recently. Four million baht + to build. My mate wanted 1 million to walk away. His missus was being awkward so it went to court. He was awarded his million on completion of a sale. It went to auction and nobody had the money to buy it at a decent price. It sold for 1.5m. She walked away with only 500k less costs. Might be worth her while going down that road and see what half is worth at auction.

I'm sure 100k per rai is land without chanote, right?

[bwpage3]

9 hours ago, GARYGANG said:

Thanks for all the further comments.

 

We have previously raised the fact that the land was gifted to her in her sole name so it is ‘Non-Matrimonial Property’.

 

She has never spent a penny on it or received anything from it as her mum is still alive.

 

I’m aware that in Thai Civil Code its classed as ‘Sin Suan Tua’ but it appears that means nothing in an English divorce court.

 

The Judge has just approved a request from the ex-husband to pay £3k for another international company to do a valuation survey and girlfriend has to pay half.

 

Absolute Joke !

 

If its anything like the last report they won’t even visit the land, they will sit in an office in Bangkok and find a few properties in the general vicinity and base a valuation on pie in the sky asking prices.

 

 

 

Why do think the English law takes precedence over Thai Law?

 

This is Thailand. The land is in Thailand.

 

Maybe you need a Thai lawyer

[rumak]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

5 hours ago, GARYGANG said:

Just can't believe that they are making her pay half toward £3k for another valuation and we can't do anything about it.

She could leave the UK and return to Thailand.

There's no way for anyone to enforce a divorce settlement made in the UK if they aren't there.

But presumably she's trying to grab a chunk of his house and pension in the UK, but doesn't want the award offset by the value of her land in Thailand. It ain't gonna work!

aha !  what say garyg  ?   Is she trying to get some of his assests?  

BTW:  i also guess he bought the land in Thailand    yes, her name, but who paid ??

 

If she in fact owned the land before marriage to him than in Thailand  it would be 100 percent hers,    as would his assets before marriage belong totally to him 

[GARYGANG]

Yes she is seeking a share of the house in UK that was first purchased in 2014, 7 years after they got married.

 

The land in Thailand was not bought by the ex husband.

 

It was gifted a week before her dad passed away and has been in the family for over 50 years.

[BritManToo]

3 hours ago, GARYGANG said:

Yes she is seeking a share of the house in UK that was first purchased in 2014, 7 years after they got married.

The land in Thailand was not bought by the ex husband.

It was gifted a week before her dad passed a ay and has been in the family for over 50 years.

Doesn't matter, UK divorce law shares all assets.

She wants his house without sharing her land, not nice.

[blackcab]

11 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

Why do think the English law takes precedence over Thai Law?

 

This is Thailand. The land is in Thailand.

 

Maybe you need a Thai lawyer

 

The divorce is happening in the UK, so English law will be the only law. What I think everyone is missing is that (broadly speaking) in English law the husband is entitled to half the value of the wife's assets and the wife is (broadly speaking) entitled to half the value of the husband's assets.

 

If the wife wants half of the husband's assets she will have to give him half of her assets.

 

This does not mean the land will have to be sold. The judge can order that half of the value of the land in Thailand is deducted from the final settlement the husband has to pay, assuming half of the husband's assets are worth more than half of the value of the land.

[motdaeng]

18 hours ago, misterphil said:

My wife has 4 Rai of rice farm land In Saraburi thats supposably worth 600,000 THB so 150,000 per Rai.  She rents it out at 4,000 THB per month. 

are you sure 4,000 thb is per month? per rai or per 4 rai? 

 

4,000 thb per rai / month would be 48,000 thb per rai / per year!!! 

what do they plant an this rented rice farm land .... ? 

 

in the deep isaan the rent is about 1,000 thb per rai / per year for rice farm land!

[4MyEgo]

16 hours ago, GARYGANG said:

I was anticipating that there are no public records for actual property sale prices in Thailand so that is all we can do is discredit their valuations if they are again massively inflated as I expect.

 

Just can't believe that they are making her pay half toward £3k for another valuation and we can't do anything about it.

Having been a property valuer in Sydney Australia since 1999 (now retired), and having carried out tens of thousands of valuations, ranging from mortgage to family law court valuations, I would assume that any valuation would be under the some kind of code, or international valuation standards.

 

If I read correctly, the report said that there was one property used as a comparison, not a chance in hell, at least 3 to 4 comparable sales should be enough to derive at a valuation figure, e.g. superior, superior, comparable and or inferior, failing that, there are other avenues to value properties.

 

This all sounds suspect to me, and I doubt very much that the UK can meddle in Thai law, suffice to say, if your wife has someone she can trust in Thailand, albeit her mum, get her to transfer the property over to her mother asap, and her mother to sign a legal document saying she owes her daughter for the full value of the land, albeit it 400,000 baht so that is registered on the title, so that her mum cannot sell it without her daughter getting the money she is owed.

 

I doubt the costs would be anything near the costs that it would be in the UK to transfer the land, alternatively, she could take out a loan on the land, albeit it they might only loan 50% on it, if the husbands does force the hand, when the property is sold, the bank will get their slice, e.g. 50% first, and the balance split between the x husband (if he has a leg to stand on) and your wife the remaining 25% which would equate to 75%.

 

What a lot of clients used to get me to do, pre marriage or divorce was to value their properties so that the could transfer them to someone else if it was only in their names, naturally the other could ask the court to do something about it, e.g. prove that they acted illegal pending court proceedings, but the cost involved to do that was a lot of money and hassle.

 

I would say your wife's x still loves her, that's why he isn't letting go, should move on, give him squat.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

This all sounds suspect to me, and I doubt very much that the UK can meddle in Thai law, suffice to say, if your wife has someone she can trust in Thailand, albeit her mum, get her to transfer the property over to her mother asap, and her mother to sign a legal document saying she owes her daughter for the full value of the land, albeit it 400,000 baht so that is registered on the title, so that her mum cannot sell it without her daughter getting the money she is owed.

Won't affect UK divorce division of assets.

All assets held by both parties in the year before the divorce is submitted are considered joint assets to be divided.

You can sell or transfer them, but they are still counted in your assets.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

I would say your wife's x still loves her, that's why he isn't letting go, should move on, give him squat.

I would say his gfs husband is trying to hang on to his home.

 

Would also point out to OP, the way your girl treats her husband (and what she says about her husband) is an indication of how she will treat you in a year or two.

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Won't affect UK divorce division of assets.

All assets held by both parties in the year before the divorce is submitted are considered joint assets to be divided.

You can sell or transfer them, but they are still counted in your assets.

How can an asset in Thailand be considered an asset under British law ?

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I would say his gfs husband is trying to hang on to his home.

 

Would also point out to OP, the way your girl treats her husband (and what she says about her husband) is an indication of how she will treat you in a year or two.

I thought this was land that her father gave to her in a will, what would it have to do with her x husband ? E.g. "The land was gifted to her by her father just before he died in 2011".

 

As for how she will treat her current partner is beyond me, that said, if he has half a brain he will keep his assets, finances separate from any thing of the female species.

[BritManToo]

50 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

How can an asset in Thailand be considered an asset under British law ?

You'd need to direct that question to the UK Family Court.

But I believe all the western countries (except France) have similar divorce settlement rules covering worldwide assets.

[blackcab]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

How can an asset in Thailand be considered an asset under British law ?

 

In England, foreign assets are considered under the same legal principals that determine the division of all other assets, with the starting point being equality.

 

In English divorce law, an asset is an asset. It doesn't matter what the asset is or where the asset is physically located.

[bwpage3]

8 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

The divorce is happening in the UK, so English law will be the only law. What I think everyone is missing is that (broadly speaking) in English law the husband is entitled to half the value of the wife's assets and the wife is (broadly speaking) entitled to half the value of the husband's assets.

 

If the wife wants half of the husband's assets she will have to give him half of her assets.

 

This does not mean the land will have to be sold. The judge can order that half of the value of the land in Thailand is deducted from the final settlement the husband has to pay, assuming half of the husband's assets are worth more than half of the value of the land.

Ask yourself how a ruling in England is going to be enforced in Thailand?

[bwpage3]

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I would say his gfs husband is trying to hang on to his home.

 

Would also point out to OP, the way your girl treats her husband (and what she says about her husband) is an indication of how she will treat you in a year or two.

Preposterous!

 

You have no facts; her first husband could have been a real loser and mistreated her.

 

 

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

Preposterous!

You have no facts; her first husband could have been a real loser and mistreated her.

Don't need details, women nearly always take, usually as much as they can, anyway they can.

It's their nature.

[blackcab]

52 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

Ask yourself how a ruling in England is going to be enforced in Thailand?

 

As I said previously in post 42:

 

The judge can order that half of the value of the land in Thailand is deducted from the final settlement the husband has to pay, assuming half of the husband's assets are worth more than half of the value of the land.

 

If the husband's assets are 800,000 and the wife's assets are 200,000 then (broadly speaking) the husband would have to give the wife 400,000 (half his assets) minus 100,000 (half the wife's assets), making a final settlement of 300,000 from the husband to the wife.

 

Nothing needs to be enforced in Thailand in this situation. The land in Thailand does not need to be sold. It is the value of the land which is taken into consideration. Hence the reason why the OP was asking about the valuation of land.

 

From the husband's point of view it is probably an exercise in damage limitation.

 

It would of course be a very different situation if the wife had more assets than the husband and some or all of them were in Thailand.

[amykat]

And just to be clear, I don’t care how long the land was in the family, there was likely debt against it.  The Brit husband probably paid that off, one way or another.

[SAINT THOMAS]

You go to the land office with the owner of the land and have them print out the value of the land and make sure they didn't pawn the land deed, then you go from there.

 

It cost me 300,000 baht to get the deed from the other government agency that allows people to borrow on the deed [ my wife brother ] the deed must be in hand, ask to see the original deed, so you know they didn't pawn it with someone else either.

 

There is no money in rice farming unless you're the middle man, the guy with the 10 million baht house setting the price per kg, at 12 -15 baht with a line of rice farmers waiting to sell.

 

If you buy the land plant trees in-between the rice fields that they sell for wood, not much to buy each seedling and they grow without having to do anything.

 

You could also plant fruit trees, the rice still grows in shady areas, plant them on the inside rice fields not on the property line, I do have some on the property line but a shrub type plant and if it goes over you're property line you have to cut it if the owner asks or share that side of the shrub or fruit tree with the owner, its his fruit.