Bangkok: Famous 5 star luxury hotel shuts and lays off staff

[Logosone]

4 hours ago, CNXexpat said:

Sure, not all live in 5* hotels, same as westerns. But they never stay in cheap hostels or dormitories like western tourists (also not all). 

Yes, Chinese businessmen are like Arab businessmen - you tell them your price and they are nearly dying and crying. That´s another business culture. But has nothing to do with tourists.  

 

Let's look at tourists only. Obviously western tourists do not all stay in cheap hostels.

 

This question intrigued me, because I knew the Chinese are cheap having dealt with them, but the anecdotal evidence about the top hotels, buying LV bags also rang true. Indeed many surveys show that Chinese tourists spend the most in total, by sheer number. However, if you look at it per head actually a completely different picture emerges, turns out the Middle Eastern tourists spend the most.

 

The average Asian person (including Chinese and Japanese visitors) spends about 2/3 of what a European spends while on holiday in Thailand. 

 

From data in 2016 and 2017, we know that the average tourist stays about nine and a half days in Thailand. However, length of stay varies substantially between regions for the following reasons :

1) Visitors from farther away stay longer. This makes sense, taking a 12 hour flight and then just staying a few days, is not a very rewarding experience. Europeans, Australians, Americans stay two weeks or longer.

2) Asians also have much less holiday days per year than Europeans. Therefore they often can only allow themselves shorter trips abroad.

 

So your friend's experience may be correct that on the fewer days that the Chinese stay they tend to spend a little more on a given day because the European stays longer and is therefore more careful with his spending. But because he stays longer, per head the European actually ends up spending more, even if in total, due to sheer numbers Chinese overall spend the most.

 

https://www.thaiwebsites.com/tourism-income-Thailand.asp

[sambechtold]

17 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Quantity over quality is never a good thing, unless you are selling one dollar items at a swap meet. It just lowers the quality of the experience for all. This is an emergency situation. It needs to be dealt with, and it needs a high degree of intelligence and competence. Not something Prayuth or Pipat possess. Someone else needs to handle this, and it needs to be handled yesterday!

 

The tourism industry is teetering on the edge of a tragic drop, and has already been devastated by this highly destructive administration. This could crush millions of families dependent on tourism. 

 

You know what they say about putting all of your eggs in one basket? I have been warning of the dangers of becoming too dependent on China for years. Now, after you have made your bed, you get to sleep in it. You have alienated all tourists but Indians and Chinese. Westerners are not coming here anymore for a dozen very good reasons. You insulted us. You demeaned us. You accused us of being evil, and you accused us of being criminals. You mounted campaigns touting us as bad for the nation. You demonstrated deplorable amounts of racism and xenophobia, and fear of the outside world. Some of your officials even went as far as saying we prefer to have tourists that look more like us! And now you want us to come back? Really? How soon you forget. Sorry, but they have not forgotten what was done and said. What they have forgotten is the Thailand, as a tourist destination. There are too many alternatives now, and they are not only trying harder, they actually have competent people in charge! Surprise!

 

Sorry to say, but the high spending tourists are lost for good. They WILL NOT come back to Thailand, for a dozen different reasons. And places like Pattaya, Phuket and Samui will continue to go downhill. So, the goons at the TAT continue to pursue ever higher numbers, regardless of the noxious air, unbelievable congestion on the roads, and woeful service at the airports, that this policy only exacerbates. But, will they return? Not like before. Not even close.

Another sad "nail in the coffin" farang cry's from the cheap seats.

 Thailand is doing just fine. Well positioned to be fastest return of the travel market with safety and top level healthcare to go along with vastly superior infrastructure and ease of travel for tourists.

 

"Other locations" you think that are better are all despots with muddy Sandy beaches and sub par ease of holiday. 

 

I understand the govt doesn't communicate perfectly, but overall they have us well positioned for the fastest revival. Talk of anything else is belongs in the sad and dreary farang Bible!

[Monomial]

Quote

LABOUR PROTECTION ACT B.E. 2541 (1998)

 

Section 75

 

Whereas it is necessary for an Employer to temporarily suspend business, in part or in whole, for whatever cause other than a force majeure, the Employer shall pay to an Employee not less than fifty percent of the Wages of a Working Day received by the Employee before the suspension of business throughout the period which the Employer does not require the Employee to work.

The employer shall inform the Employee and a Labor Inspector in advance before the commencement of the suspension of business under paragraph one.

 

So they should be entitled to 50% of salary during this period. The article is not clear on whether the hotel is following this law or not.

 

Of course, the hotel may be trying to claim this is "force majeure".  If they tried that on me I would immediately be filing suit at the Labour Court.  Nothing is making them close. They simply don't have any customers and don't want to try and find ways of reframing their business to get customers.

 

Sucks to be the hotel, but they are a multinational chain with deep pockets. I'm sure they could bear the cost of 50% of salaries for 3 months, and I bet the Labour Court will agree.

 

[Don Mega]

12 minutes ago, Monomial said:

 

So they should be entitled to 50% of salary during this period. The article is not clear on whether the hotel is following this law or not.

 

Of course, the hotel may be trying to claim this is "force majeure".  If they tried that on me I would immediately be filing suit at the Labour Court.  Nothing is making them close. They simply don't have any customers and don't want to try and find ways of reframing their business to get customers.

 

Sucks to be the hotel, but they are a multinational chain with deep pockets. I'm sure they could bear the cost of 50% of salaries for 3 months, and I bet the Labour Court will agree.

 

From the Labour Protection ACT (No.2) B.E 2551 (2008)

 

 

http://ils.labour.go.th/2018/attachments/110_labour_protection_en_1998_issue2.pdf

Edited May 6, 2020 by Don Mega

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

18 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Quantity over quality is never a good thing, unless you are selling one dollar items at a swap meet. It just lowers the quality of the experience for all. This is an emergency situation. It needs to be dealt with, and it needs a high degree of intelligence and competence. Not something Prayuth or Pipat possess. Someone else needs to handle this, and it needs to be handled yesterday!

 

The tourism industry is teetering on the edge of a tragic drop, and has already been devastated by this highly destructive administration. This could crush millions of families dependent on tourism. 

 

You know what they say about putting all of your eggs in one basket? I have been warning of the dangers of becoming too dependent on China for years. Now, after you have made your bed, you get to sleep in it. You have alienated all tourists but Indians and Chinese. Westerners are not coming here anymore for a dozen very good reasons. You insulted us. You demeaned us. You accused us of being evil, and you accused us of being criminals. You mounted campaigns touting us as bad for the nation. You demonstrated deplorable amounts of racism and xenophobia, and fear of the outside world. Some of your officials even went as far as saying we prefer to have tourists that look more like us! And now you want us to come back? Really? How soon you forget. Sorry, but they have not forgotten what was done and said. What they have forgotten is the Thailand, as a tourist destination. There are too many alternatives now, and they are not only trying harder, they actually have competent people in charge! Surprise!

 

Sorry to say, but the high spending tourists are lost for good. They WILL NOT come back to Thailand, for a dozen different reasons. And places like Pattaya, Phuket and Samui will continue to go downhill. So, the goons at the TAT continue to pursue ever higher numbers, regardless of the noxious air, unbelievable congestion on the roads, and woeful service at the airports, that this policy only exacerbates. But, will they return? Not like before. Not even close.

you keep on complaining the same things here over and over , like a scratched record.

did it ever came to your mind that the "chinese and indians" are mainly the ones who want

to come to thailand in big numbers, just because they are, well, live in the region?

just like germans go to holidays in spain and greece, and americans go to holidays

in mexico and the carribeans, so chinese and indians are going to holidays on neighbouring

countries.

most people don't have all year to sit and post in thai visa like you.

they are hard working people who go to holiday once a year, and do not

want to fly 15 hours to the other side of the planet just for a week in a hotel.

[futsukayoi]

19 hours ago, pj123 said:

The report quotes the hotel as stating that staff "would receive no money". But under Thai employment law 

"Employees with more than 120 days, but less than one year employment are entitled to severance pay equal to one month's salary. If employed more than one year, but less than three years, employees are entitled to severance pay equal to three months' salary." (https://www.thaistartup.com/references/severance-pay-rules.php)

Or is the hotel using some loophole to avoid severance pay by saying their jobs will be available again in three months?

I assume they are not laying them off just telling them not to come in temporarily with Covid giving them the excuse.  If the nasty staff find another job to feed their families then they are the ones at fault for failing in their duty to the hotel which will possibly take them back at some unspecified future date.

 

 

[Greg O]

You are joking about more Americans coming here if they knew what it's like aren't you ? The extreme air pollution, heat and humidity, the rubbish everywhere, the fearsome roads, the tourist rip offs. Rabid soi dogs ( oh ain't that special). Most Americans can barely make it to a neighboring state on their own (that's a big trip going to Destin for spring break) and only about 30 percent possess a passport. Their "trip of a lifetime" is going to Hawaii (waikiki) which is just a big mall now or to Cancuuun duh, Mexicooo dude! Another manufactured tourist trap ! So they'll come here and start whining after being enroute for 28 hours or more traveling in economy. It's a horrible journey even for the experienced traveler..Many of us well seasoned travelers elected to stay here after either working in Asia or being a frequent visitor due to family ties and the proximity of Thailand being a Southeast Asian hub and the lack of oversight here until now and that's not going away anytime soon ! It's really just ignorance God bless em. As an American on holiday why would they come here? Their annual holiday leave is much less than Europeans and it's too far ! The bargains don't exist here for Americans they enjoy low taxes on purchases and everything in USA is dirt cheap and abundant compared to here, other than housing. As the Airlines begin to Vaporize fewer flights will be available. A total and complete disaster because of a few sniffles ...and government bufoonery ineptness.

[Don Mega]

11 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

most people don't have all year to sit and post in thai visa like you.

they are hard working people who go to holiday once a year, and do not

want to fly 15 hours to the other side of the planet just for a week in a hotel.

I'd reckon plenty of hardworking people fly around the world to holiday for a week..... if they are not staying in a hotel where are they staying ?

[Don Mega]

4 minutes ago, futsukayoi said:

I assume they are not laying them off just telling them not to come in temporarily with Covid giving them the excuse.  If the nasty staff find another job to feed their families then they are the ones at fault for failing in their duty to the hotel which will possibly take them back at some unspecified future date.

 

 

Temp layoff they have to pay 75%.... perm layoff they have to pay severance.

[OneMoreFarang]

9 hours ago, Dap said:

14 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Do you believe everything you read somewhere?

I normally enjoy and or agree with your posts in general, but I find this particular question demeaning.

Really? Do you believe everything YOU!, read anywhere? 

As I wrote above already, whoever wrote that got even the name of the GM wrong. How difficult is it to look up the name of a GM of a hotel on the internet? It's one of those stories someone wrote who has obviously no idea about what he or she is writing.

And lots of TV members read it and seem to believe it all.

I know that hotel and their management well. I hope they sue the publishers of this misinformation. 

[Don Mega]

7 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

As I wrote above already, whoever wrote that got even the name of the GM wrong. How difficult is it to look up the name of a GM of a hotel on the internet? It's one of those stories someone wrote who has obviously no idea about what he or she is writing.

And lots of TV members read it and seem to believe it all.

I know that hotel and their management well. I hope they sue the publishers of this misinformation. 

I looked up the internet and I can only find Richard Chapman as GM.... when did he move on and who replaced him  ?

Edited May 6, 2020 by Don Mega

[Greg O]

Hotel GM's are changed as often as the bedsheets in some cases. Most of you probably know this but very few of the large and popular hotel brands are actually run by the parent company. They are often franchisees or management companies under contract with a large percentage of the staff being low wage contract employees as well. There's not alot of loyalty in that business..no need to shed any years and get all choked up..

[OneMoreFarang]

31 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

I looked up the internet and I can only find Richard Chapman as GM.... when did he move on and who replaced him  ?

GM Richard Chapman is still in charge - since forever (more than a decade).

The article writes "Richard Coleman" is GM. There is no Richard Coleman in that hotel and as far as I know there was never anybody with that name working there.

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by OneMoreFarang

[OneMoreFarang]

25 minutes ago, Greg O said:

Hotel GM's are changed as often as the bedsheets in some cases. Most of you probably know this but very few of the large and popular hotel brands are actually run by the parent company. They are often franchisees or management companies under contract with a large percentage of the staff being low wage contract employees as well. There's not alot of loyalty in that business..no need to shed any years and get all choked up..

Richard Chapman is the GM of the SGS since more than a decade (maybe two decades). And many people who work in the hotel, from management to cleaners, are there since many years. I know that because I go there all the time.

[Bob A Kneale]

1 hour ago, Don Mega said:

From the Labour Protection ACT (No.2) B.E 2551 (2008)

 

 

So, regardless of the ill-informed "legal advice" provided by posters here to Thais workers who haven't asked for it and who definitely won't be reading it, the hotel is in complete, force majeure, compliance with the relevant law, as would be expected of an international group.

[Bob A Kneale]

13 hours ago, impulse said:

What they're saying is "We don't need you.  There's no guarantee we'll ever call you back.  But we're not terminating you so we don't have to pay severance you're entitled to.

But, unfortunately, that's not the case; in these circumstances the affected staff are not entitled to severance pay.  Labour laws cover "force majeure" situations specifically.

[Don Mega]

8 minutes ago, Bob A Kneale said:

So, regardless of the ill-informed "legal advice" provided by posters here to Thais workers who haven't asked for it and who definitely won't be reading it, the hotel is in complete, force majeure, compliance with the relevant law, as would be expected of an international group.

I did not consider that the Thailand Prime Minister has declared the country is under Force Majeure.

 

A quick google tells me it is and you are correct, the company is under no obligation to pay 75% to staff that are temporarily stood down... but are liable to pay for those forced to work from home of which there would be very few at a hotel !!

 

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Don Mega

[LomSak27]

12 hours ago, CNXexpat said:

Sure, not all live in 5* hotels, same as westerns. But they never stay in cheap hostels or dormitories like western tourists (also not all). 

Are you talking about Backpackers, I assumed this was about Tourists ... Confused ????

[impulse]

25 minutes ago, Bob A Kneale said:

But, unfortunately, that's not the case; in these circumstances the affected staff are not entitled to severance pay.  Labour laws cover "force majeure" situations specifically.

 

Maybe, maybe not.  One thing I learned in 6+ years of working in Thailand is that it's dangerous to read any laws and think you understand them without understanding the complex tapestry of the laws around that single paragraph.  Not to mention public pressures in the moment.

 

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.  Which it will, along with thousands of other cases.

 

Edit:  And to your comment about an international group being expected to do the right thing according to Thai law, you must be new.

Edited May 6, 2020 by impulse

[spidermike007]

12 hours ago, Jcord1 said:

Most of the Thai people I've met personally have great admiration for the USA and it's the dream of many young Thais to study and or work in the USA if they could.  Many of them learned English by listening to American songs and watching American movies.

 

I think the romance with China is led from the top down in this government.  That plus China is trying to do a big economic bear hug with every country around the world that will allow them in the door.

 

Personally I think more Americans would visit Thailand if they knew what it's actually like.  Many may think that because it's run by a military led coup government that it's the same as visiting Myanmar and perceived as a potentially volatile country. 

 

Americans have more money to spend here than the Chinese (and we wouldn't be coming here on the zero dollar plan.....it's not the American thing to do).  Up until the Wuhan virus America's economy was strong.  And soon enough we will have a strong economy again.

 

I just think the Thai government should make more of an effort target tourism by Americans.

Unfortunately, smart is not something the authorities do here. Remember. When it comes to appointments, they always pick the least qualified and the least talented, from the bottom of barrel. It is their M.O. 

 

In terms of Americans, while I think they are a decent group to target, most Americans are not into visiting a third world nation, unless it is within a five hour flight. I think that is largely why a higher percentage do not travel here. 

[spidermike007]

3 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

you keep on complaining the same things here over and over , like a scratched record.

did it ever came to your mind that the "chinese and indians" are mainly the ones who want

to come to thailand in big numbers, just because they are, well, live in the region?

just like germans go to holidays in spain and greece, and americans go to holidays

in mexico and the carribeans, so chinese and indians are going to holidays on neighbouring

countries.

most people don't have all year to sit and post in thai visa like you.

they are hard working people who go to holiday once a year, and do not

want to fly 15 hours to the other side of the planet just for a week in a hotel.

Thank you. Keep the genius insights coming our way. 

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, Greg O said:

You are joking about more Americans coming here if they knew what it's like aren't you ? The extreme air pollution, heat and humidity, the rubbish everywhere, the fearsome roads, the tourist rip offs. Rabid soi dogs ( oh ain't that special). Most Americans can barely make it to a neighboring state on their own (that's a big trip going to Destin for spring break) and only about 30 percent possess a passport. Their "trip of a lifetime" is going to Hawaii (waikiki) which is just a big mall now or to Cancuuun duh, Mexicooo dude! Another manufactured tourist trap ! So they'll come here and start whining after being enroute for 28 hours or more traveling in economy. It's a horrible journey even for the experienced traveler..Many of us well seasoned travelers elected to stay here after either working in Asia or being a frequent visitor due to family ties and the proximity of Thailand being a Southeast Asian hub and the lack of oversight here until now and that's not going away anytime soon ! It's really just ignorance God bless em. As an American on holiday why would they come here? Their annual holiday leave is much less than Europeans and it's too far ! The bargains don't exist here for Americans they enjoy low taxes on purchases and everything in USA is dirt cheap and abundant compared to here, other than housing. As the Airlines begin to Vaporize fewer flights will be available. A total and complete disaster because of a few sniffles ...and government bufoonery ineptness.

Agree with many of your points. Except for the America is dirt cheap part. Some fruits are cheap there, compared to here. Other than that?

[Monomial]

2 hours ago, Bob A Kneale said:

But, unfortunately, that's not the case; in these circumstances the affected staff are not entitled to severance pay.  Labour laws cover "force majeure" situations specifically.

 

A. This isn't force majure. This is a conscious decision by the director to close the hotel when there are other options available to them. This is cruelty by management and owners trying to worm their way out of their legal responsibilities by exploiting a technicality.

 

B. Even if this is ultimately ruled force majure by a court, it is still a downright nasty thing to do. Just because it is legal doesn't mean it is moral.

 

The investors should pay for this shutdown. They are in a position to do it. Not the workers.

 

This was the very first hotel I ever stayed at in Thailand. I still recommend it to my friends when they come. Never again after this downright immoral, ugly action by a hotel and a director that has the morals of a pig.

 

 

 

[Thomas J]

One thing is for sure the public "may" have a chance to get COVID 19 and get sick or die.  However with the help of governments around the world they will make sure you have a 100% chance of being unemployed and starve. 

[CNXexpat]

10 hours ago, Logosone said:

 

Let's look at tourists only. Obviously western tourists do not all stay in cheap hostels.

 

This question intrigued me, because I knew the Chinese are cheap having dealt with them, but the anecdotal evidence about the top hotels, buying LV bags also rang true. Indeed many surveys show that Chinese tourists spend the most in total, by sheer number. However, if you look at it per head actually a completely different picture emerges, turns out the Middle Eastern tourists spend the most.

 

The average Asian person (including Chinese and Japanese visitors) spends about 2/3 of what a European spends while on holiday in Thailand. 

 

From data in 2016 and 2017, we know that the average tourist stays about nine and a half days in Thailand. However, length of stay varies substantially between regions for the following reasons :

1) Visitors from farther away stay longer. This makes sense, taking a 12 hour flight and then just staying a few days, is not a very rewarding experience. Europeans, Australians, Americans stay two weeks or longer.

2) Asians also have much less holiday days per year than Europeans. Therefore they often can only allow themselves shorter trips abroad.

 

So your friend's experience may be correct that on the fewer days that the Chinese stay they tend to spend a little more on a given day because the European stays longer and is therefore more careful with his spending. But because he stays longer, per head the European actually ends up spending more, even if in total, due to sheer numbers Chinese overall spend the most.

 

https://www.thaiwebsites.com/tourism-income-Thailand.asp

You are right, other citizens from other nations spend more money - because they stay longer. You have to look how much the tourists spend PER DAY. There are Chinese number one. The Chinese stay a couple of days in Thailand because the flights are not so long. Americans and Europeans stay minimum 2 weeks because they have to fly 1 full day.
https://thethaiger.com/news/opinion/why-the-chinese-are-infinitely-more-important-than-western-tourists-to-thailand

[stevenl]

16 hours ago, impulse said:

 

In the past, there have been cases where employers reduced the salaries of employees to make them quit.  That doesn't go over well at the Labor Board when it comes to severance.  In this case, they reduced the salary to zero...  I wonder how that will play out.

Won';t go there, since the staff is furloughed. They have not been fired and will receive 50% of their salary (with limits) from the SSO. That is of course for the officially employed only.

[varun]

4 hours ago, Bob A Kneale said:

So, regardless of the ill-informed "legal advice" provided by posters here to Thais workers who haven't asked for it and who definitely won't be reading it, the hotel is in complete, force majeure, compliance with the relevant law, as would be expected of an international group.

A competent lawyer will argue that this is not force-majeure.

The closure of airports and the country itself that is the main reason for drop in tourist arrivals, is a man-made decision, not an act of nature and/or God.

 

The hotel is just trying to weasel their way out of paying severance by hoping that this tactic will cause many workers to quit of their own accord.

 

 

[Greg O]

You are joking about more Americans coming here if they knew what it's like aren't you ? The extreme air pollution, heat and humidity, the rubbish everywhere, the fearsome roads, the tourist rip offs. Rabid soi dogs ( oh ain't that special). Most Americans can barely make it to a neighboring state on their own (that's a big trip going to Destin for spring break) and only about 30 percent possess a passport. Their "trip of a lifetime" is going to Hawaii (waikiki) which is just a big mall now or to Cancuuun duh, Mexicooo dude! Another manufactured tourist trap ! So they'll come here and start whining after being enroute for 28 hours or more traveling in economy. It's a horrible journey even for the experienced traveler..Many of us well seasoned travelers elected to stay here after either working in Asia or being a frequent visitor due to family ties and the proximity of Thailand being a Southeast Asian hub and the lack of oversight here until now and that's not going away anytime soon ! It's really just ignorance God bless em. As an American on holiday why would they come here? Their annual holiday leave is much less than Europeans and it's too far ! The bargains don't exist here for Americans they enjoy low taxes on purchases and everything in USA is dirt cheap and abundant compared to here, other than housing. As the Airlines begin to Vaporize fewer flights will be available. A total and complete disaster because of a few sniffles ...and government bufoonery ineptness.

 

Yes it's unfortunate and dozens more will most likely fall by the wayside. 

[Bob A Kneale]

5 hours ago, impulse said:

to your comment about an international group being expected to do the right thing according to Thai law, you must be new.

If you say so.

[impulse]

1 hour ago, Bob A Kneale said:

6 hours ago, impulse said:

to your comment about an international group being expected to do the right thing according to Thai law, you must be new.

If you say so.

 

If you're not aware of many international companies flouting Thai employment and tax laws, you're either not digging very deep, or you're willfully ignoring them.  Which is it?