Are we alive because of diet?

[Caldera]

While I see the point that those who distrust the Thai numbers make, the fact remains, the Thai government would have been unable to conceal an outbreak of the scale of that in Italy. Overwhelmed hospitals and crematoriums simply did not happen here.

[KhaoYai]

21 hours ago, connda said:

It's more likely that Thailand as a developing world and Thai in general don't have the same germ-adverse mind-set as do Westerners.  Therefore they are exposed to a wider range of bacteria and viruses than their Western counterparts, and as such, have stronger immunity system.

 

Westerners really are germaphobe, but it their aversion to pathogens which sets them up to have weaker immune systems.  Avoidance of pathogens weakens their immune system.

Well I'll stick to clean food, free from poo and snot thanks. If you like Hepatitis A, Gastric flu and Food Poisoning, you're welcome to it. I not only have an aversion to pathogens, I have an aversion to eating food potentially contaminated by the spoon of someone else sitting at my table.

 

Life expectancy for men in the UK 79 years - Life expectancy for men in Thailand 71 years.

Edited May 8, 2020 by KhaoYai

[SunsetT]

22 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Nothing to do with education, all to do with lifestyle.

....And, in the UK, the appallingly slow, inappropriate, and inadequate response by the Conservative government! E.g., There has been, and there still is, absolutely no restriction, no health checking in any way, or monitoring of passengers flying into the UK! And they are only just now mulling the idea of 'tracking and tracing'! This belies the typical inward looking Brexit attitude, turning down funding and help offered from Europe thinking they know everything and dont need to learn from the experience and example of other countries who have been through the worst already. God help us Brits in the way they will handle Brexit!

[steve73]

19 hours ago, Lacessit said:

snip..

I'm not aware of any health condition that is improved by obesity.

Starvation perhaps... sorry!

[Russell17au]

No one will ever know the true figures because here in Thailand in a small rural village an elderly person dies and the only official that attends is the local village headman who does the paperwork to notify the government that this person has died. There is no medical examination and no death certificate stating cause of death and this is common in most 3rd world countries, so what did this person die from, no one knows. The other thing is even in France this has happened and has only been brought to light recently. There was an Algerian man living in France and he did not feel well because of the flu so he went to hospital and was tested for the seasonal flu and the result came back negative but he still did not feel well and the hospital did no further tests. After Wahun and the outbreaks in Europe the hospital sent for samples from this man from Algeria and they tested those samples and the test came back positive to Covid-19. This man had no connections with China and this man was sick and originally tested before Wahun. The only place this man had been was back to Algeria in August 2019. So how many people have been misdiagnosed? As for the time frames with the WHO. The Australian Federal Health Minister Greg Hunt declared at a senate committee hearing that the WHO informed him of the virus on 1st January, but he did nothing about the warning for 3 weeks. How many other countries ignored the warning and then blamed the WHO whose people on the ground are from the various countries that support WHO. At the time the Australia contingent was partway through their 3 year commitment along with the other countries representatives.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Russell17au

[kingofthemountain]

2 hours ago, natway09 said:

The major problem I see in Thailand is when the borders are opened & incoming International tourists

come back . The reality is that we do not want tourists for the next 6 months from USA,UK, Italy,

Spain, China, HK, Germany, France, & pretty well of Europe, Africa, Indonesia, Malaysia etc

What is left ? 

I totally agree with you on this statement

particularly in Pattaya where ''social distancing'' is hardly possible if you want some fun

[Logosone]

54 minutes ago, Caldera said:

While I see the point that those who distrust the Thai numbers make, the fact remains, the Thai government would have been unable to conceal an outbreak of the scale of that in Italy. Overwhelmed hospitals and crematoriums simply did not happen here.

That's of course not the case.

 

Since in Thailand often non-medical lay people are in charge of the burial and do not register the death with a government agency necessarily, the number of deaths in Thailand is highly suspect.

 

The diagnosis of illness is not done in most cases because the person in charge is a non-medical layman. However, even where a diagnosis is done, in the case of Covid19 the diagnosis could easily be of something else, pneumonia, kidney failure, etc.

 

Of course people generally don't go to hospital in Thailand because there is no health insurance like in Italy that pays for everything, even the Covid19 tests were hawked at inflated prices most Thais couldn't afford. They sit it out at home.

 

Besides, hospitalisation for Covid 19 is very low, 8.3 % and lower still for younger people.

 

If there is any place in the world where the true scale of Covid19 deaths and cases could remain hidden, that is in 'do-nothing' Thailand.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Logosone

[Pattaya46]

4 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Since in Thailand often non-medical lay people are in charge of the burial and do not register the death with a government agency necessarily, the number of deaths in Thailand is highly suspect.

Uh? AFAIK there is always at least the headman of the village to register each death. Needed to manage bank account, inheritance, house book, ...

[Logosone]

14 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Uh? AFAIK there is always at least the headman of the village to register each death. Needed to manage bank account, inheritance, house book, ...

Well as far as you know is not very far then:

 

"A previous study  reported that recent mortality statistics in Thailand were of low quality, with over 30.0% of deaths unregistered and more than 20.0% of underlying causes of death (COD) classified as “ill-defined cause”."

 

Of those deaths that are registered, almost 70% show mistakes in the death certificate:

 

"Five hundred and sixty-three medical records and corresponding DCs were included. Of those, 36.9% of DCs were found to be correct. Common mistakes included incorrect sequence of events leading to death (32.4%), and mode of death use (26.2%)."

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6011513/

 

In short, Thai numbers are highly suspect, unreliable and seriously flawed.

 

 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

 

 

Life expectancy for men in the UK 79 years - Life expectancy for men in Thailand 71 years.

Comparing the average attractiveness of a UK woman against that of a Thai woman, that's not surprising.

[Brunolem]

32 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

 

Of course people generally don't go to hospital in Thailand because there is no health insurance like in Italy that pays for everything, even the Covid19 tests were hawked at inflated prices most Thais couldn't afford. They sit it out at home.

 

This is not true. 

 

Thai people go a lot to the hospital, probably too much in fact, simply because it's free! (forget about the meaningless 30 baht fee)

 

On top of that, if someone in a village was showing coronavirus symptoms, such as high fever and lot of coughing, you can be sure that the villagers would immediately alert someone, simply because they wouldn't want to be infected. 

 

And considering the proximity of multiple family members, there would not be a single case, but a rapid explosion of cases. 

 

As far as I know, such a scenario hasn't happened anywhere... 

[Lacessit]

38 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

Of course people generally don't go to hospital in Thailand because there is no health insurance like in Italy that pays for everything, even the Covid19 tests were hawked at inflated prices most Thais couldn't afford. They sit it out at home.

 

 

 

 

Would you mind not posting complete BS? A visit to any government hospital in Thailand costs any Thai exactly 30 baht.

A couple of years ago, my GF had stomach pains which turned out to be mild gastritis. The specialist did a gastroscopy in front of me and a couple of her relatives.

30 baht, free medication. Sometimes you are more full of c##p than a French goose.

[Lacessit]

11 hours ago, pineapple01 said:

My Old Grand Father did everything wrong accordion to today's Faddies. Exept get Fat. Never forget Him he died 3 Days before his 100th Birthday.

Must have been a disappointment for him, didn't get the royal telegram. ( Assuming he was British )

[Pattaya46]

38 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Well as far as you know is not very far then:

 

"A previous study  reported that recent mortality statistics in Thailand were of low quality, with over 30.0% of deaths unregistered and more than 20.0% of underlying causes of death (COD) classified as “ill-defined cause”."

A study on data about 20 years old... 

Internet changed a lot of things in last 20 years for all administrative procedures 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Pattaya46

[PFMills]

11 hours ago, Lacessit said:

There is no difference between cold water and warm water in terms of cleaning. It's the soap or detergent used with them that does the job.

Water has a surface tension of 72 dynes/cm, cold or warm. Soap lowers that to 20 dynes/cm.

Water has a surface tension of 72 dynes/cm, cold or warm   ...cold or warm ...um not exactly correct and I can more than likely provide a source ....

Soap lowers that to 20 dynes/cm. ...soap definitely lowers the surface tension ...LifeBoy used to be a favorite, shows my age 

 

In the scheme of things does it really matter what the surface tension is when spraying your bum...I do not like staying anywhere that doesn't have a bum gun ... sometimes 'up market hotels' don't have bum guns ... they do have showers though...sometimes have to waddle across!!!

Edited May 8, 2020 by PFMills

[lumply]

Really surprised that none of the so called experts here appear not to have considered genetics

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, PFMills said:

Water has a surface tension of 72 dynes/cm, cold or warm   ...cold or warm ...um not exactly correct and I can more than likely provide a source ....

Soap lowers that to 20 dynes/cm. ...soap definitely lowers the surface tension ...LifeBoy used to be a favorite, shows my age 

 

In the scheme of things does it really matter what the surface tension is when spraying your bum...I do not like staying anywhere that doesn't have a bum gun ... sometimes 'up market hotels' don't have bum guns ... they do have showers though...sometimes have to waddle across!!!

Getting a bit complicated to apply soap as well as a bum gun to one's nether regions, the shower would be easier. I think brokenbone was referring to hand washing.

Surface tension is quite important in washing dishes, pans etc. because water does not drain off properly with plain water, especially if there is fat contamination.

[DrTuner]

18 minutes ago, lumply said:

Really surprised that none of the so called experts here appear not to have considered genetics

Racist! 

 

Ok had to get that out of the system, still shadows of the pre-corona PC era. I'm not seeing much difference between races, Indonesia has got it pretty bad.

 

Thailand is in Indochina, both China and India are/were hit bad. I doubt it's the promised people of the buddha.

 

If you mean in even smaller scale, like longevity running in the family, yeah sure. Some have more adaptible immune systems.

Edited May 8, 2020 by DrTuner

[kingofthemountain]

2 hours ago, Logosone said:

Well as far as you know is not very far then:

 

"A previous study  reported that recent mortality statistics in Thailand were of low quality, with over 30.0% of deaths unregistered and more than 20.0% of underlying causes of death (COD) classified as “ill-defined cause”."

 

Of those deaths that are registered, almost 70% show mistakes in the death certificate:

 

"Five hundred and sixty-three medical records and corresponding DCs were included. Of those, 36.9% of DCs were found to be correct. Common mistakes included incorrect sequence of events leading to death (32.4%), and mode of death use (26.2%)."

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6011513/

 

In short, Thai numbers are highly suspect, unreliable and seriously flawed.

 

 

The study from 2003 gives a group of countries with an estimation of

30% of death unregistered to the World Health Organisation,

Doesn't mean there is 30% of the death unregistered in Thailand.

 

All of us here who live or have lived even in the smallest villages lost in the sticks

know very well that every death is registered by the headman of the village.

 

It's very possible (And even pretty sure) that all the ministers do not work together

and exchange the datas, so the police can have the record of the death but not the

hospital of the ampur just because it's 2 differents ministers, and that's can explain

the difference in numbers in the study (It's the health minister who gives the data to the WHO)

 

But of course you are right (And the study also) about the % of mistakes in the cause of death, and it's normal since a lot die in the villages just because they are old, and the headman is not a doctor, so he choses a random cause to fill the form.

Edited May 8, 2020 by kingofthemountain

[JungleBiker]

40 minutes ago, lumply said:

Really surprised that none of the so called experts here appear not to have considered genetics

 

Well I just read through this thread from page 1 to this page (8) to see if anybody had mentioned genetics and you were the only one. You beat me to it - well done Lumply!  

 

To me it is pretty obvious that it is genetics. 

 

First of all, look at these numbers: 

 

Thailand pop 70 m covid-19 deaths 55

Laos pop 7.2 m deaths 0

Vietnam pop 97 m deaths 0

Cambodia 17 m deaths 0

Myanmar 54 m deaths 6

Yunnan 49 m deaths 2

Guanxi 48 m deaths 2

Guangdong 113 m deaths 8

Hong Kong 7.5 m deaths 4

Guizhou 35 m deaths 2

And there are some others I could add. 

 

Basically, the people in the countries and Chinese provinces listed above are "bullet-proof" to covid-19.

 

You would be crazy to suggest that the low death rates have anything to do with diet, washing hands, masks, social distancing, lockdowns, etc, blah, blah, blah. 

 

It is, I believe, because of genetics.

 

Unlike the people in North America and Europe, the people in this area have been living alongside hundreds of species of bats carrying hundreds (or thousands?) of types of coronavirus for tens of thousands of years. Darwin's law of natural selection means that most people who can't cope very well with being infected with a coronavirus were removed from the local gene pool long ago. 

 

For some science to back me up, look at this paper from India: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.05.20054627v2.full.pdf

 

Note: "...results shine light on ancestry driven genetic factors underlying variabilities in COVID-19 infection and manifestation" 

 

Another paper, while about leprosy, not covid-19, also gives an insight into the science that I am talking about: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/05/170516121714.htm 

 

This one is about zika virus: https://qz.com/782010/are-asians-immune-to-zika-scientists-say-a-lack-of-outbreaks-means-they-may-be/ 

 

And there are other papers on the web that provide evidence to suggest that genetics can explain the low death rates in this part of the world. 

 

And if this is the case, then it means the lockdowns have been for nothing! They have been a major clusterf**k. 

 

Sheeple led by sheeple? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Logosone]

9 minutes ago, JungleBiker said:

 

Well I just read through this thread from page 1 to this page (8) to see if anybody had mentioned genetics and you were the only one. You beat me to it - well done Lumply!  

 

To me it is pretty obvious that it is genetics. 

 

First of all, look at these numbers: 

 

Thailand pop 70 m covid-19 deaths 55

Laos pop 7.2 m deaths 0

Vietnam pop 97 m deaths 0

Cambodia 17 m deaths 0

Myanmar 54 m deaths 6

Yunnan 49 m deaths 2

Guanxi 48 m deaths 2

Guangdong 113 m deaths 8

Hong Kong 7.5 m deaths 4

Guizhou 35 m deaths 2

And there are some others I could add. 

 

Basically, the people in the countries and Chinese provinces listed above are "bullet-proof" to covid-19.

 

No, they are not bullet-proof Supermen, unfortunately they do not bother to test very much. If you don't test someone for Covid19 obviously how could you possibly know they died of Covid19? You can't.

 

If you don't test people the deaths will not show up in Covid 19 statistics, obviously. 

 

By that logic Nigerians too should be claiming they're genetic Supermen, since they have even less deaths per capita. Again, obviously because they're simply not testing a lot. Hence the fabled number of deaths. 

 

Nothing to do with genetics, just work avoidance. Not testing enough.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Logosone

[kingofthemountain]

3 hours ago, JungleBiker said:

 

Well I just read through this thread from page 1 to this page (8) to see if anybody had mentioned genetics and you were the only one. You beat me to it - well done Lumply!  

 

To me it is pretty obvious that it is genetics. 

 

First of all, look at these numbers: 

 

Thailand pop 70 m covid-19 deaths 55

Laos pop 7.2 m deaths 0

Vietnam pop 97 m deaths 0

Cambodia 17 m deaths 0

Myanmar 54 m deaths 6

Yunnan 49 m deaths 2

Guanxi 48 m deaths 2

Guangdong 113 m deaths 8

Hong Kong 7.5 m deaths 4

Guizhou 35 m deaths 2

And there are some others I could add. 

 

Basically, the people in the countries and Chinese provinces listed above are "bullet-proof" to covid-19.

 

You would be crazy to suggest that the low death rates have anything to do with diet, washing hands, masks, social distancing, lockdowns, etc, blah, blah, blah. 

 

It is, I believe, because of genetics.

 

Unlike the people in North America and Europe, the people in this area have been living alongside hundreds of species of bats carrying hundreds (or thousands?) of types of coronavirus for tens of thousands of years. Darwin's law of natural selection means that most people who can't cope very well with being infected with a coronavirus were removed from the local gene pool long ago. 

 

For some science to back me up, look at this paper from India: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.05.20054627v2.full.pdf

 

Note: "...results shine light on ancestry driven genetic factors underlying variabilities in COVID-19 infection and manifestation" 

 

Another paper, while about leprosy, not covid-19, also gives an insight into the science that I am talking about: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/05/170516121714.htm 

 

This one is about zika virus: https://qz.com/782010/are-asians-immune-to-zika-scientists-say-a-lack-of-outbreaks-means-they-may-be/ 

 

And there are other papers on the web that provide evidence to suggest that genetics can explain the low death rates in this part of the world. 

 

And if this is the case, then it means the lockdowns have been for nothing! They have been a major clusterf**k. 

 

Sheeple led by sheeple? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Intersting theory

you only forget one element, but an essential one

in these countries live thousands of 

expats, workers, family members and so on

if you was right, these communities should be heavily impacted

at least in the areas where they are in contact with tourists from infected countries

but they are not, so it's not the genetic, probably more the climate. it seems the virus doesn't

like heat, sun and humidity

[lkv]

4 hours ago, JungleBiker said:

Yunnan 49 m deaths 2

Guanxi 48 m deaths 2

Guangdong 113 m deaths 8

Unreported.

 

I can assure you, the gene in Wuhan is the same as the gene in Guangdong etc.

 

Wuhan had about 50,000 unreported casualties, not 3-4,000, based on estimates.

 

It's all FAKE.

 

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/4agbnm/its-all-fake-watch-wuhan-residents-shout-down-a-top-china-official-during-coronavirus-visit

 

Wuhan's Crematoriums Are Filling Thousands of Urns With Coronavirus Remains Each Day

Wuhan residents are waiting for hours in line to pick up the remains of their loved ones.

 

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/88435z/wuhans-crematoriums-are-filling-thousands-of-urns-with-coronavirus-remains-each-day

Edited May 8, 2020 by lkv

[Onrai]

On 5/7/2020 at 6:33 PM, CanadaSam said:

The one thing that immediately springs to mind is spices, chilies, etc. which is really not used in the "western" countries to the extent that they are in third world countries, and the reason they are extensively used in cooking here is to preserve food, not allow germs/bacteria to thrive, and sometimes even for medicinal purposes from generations old recipes.

The chili is a new world plant as is the potato, corn and beans. Chilies are used extensively in a majority of countries. For sure British, Italian and Spanish cuisine do not use a lot of chilies. But you’d have to go country by country to see if your theory holds up. Chinese Sichuan cooking is using a lot of chili. 

Thailand is not considered 3 world but a fast emerging country.

I don’t know where you got your information about chilis used to preserve food. Thai food is cooked fresh and served to order. Vinegar and salt are used in preserving foods, not chilies.The overwhelming reason people use chilies in their cuisine is for the heat. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/7/2020 at 11:33 PM, CanadaSam said:

Is our diet saving us?

In my opinion it isn't saving us, but for sure it's killing us. The "western" diseases of diabetes, heart and stroke are, IMO down to our appalling diet high in chemicals, fat and sugar. Wheat may or may not be part of the problem, but could be by the poisonous chemicals sprayed on it to keep weeds down.

 

The US and Britain have bad food, many obese people, and a high death rate from Corona.

 

The elderly in Thailand probably still eat a healthy diet of mainly vegetables with a little chicken or fish. Not many are obese- that's younger people that are eating bad western style food and red meat.

[tonray]

On 5/7/2020 at 6:33 PM, CanadaSam said:

Is our diet saving us?

"At the White House news conference today...President Trump was advocating smearing one's body with Pla Ra and Nam Pla Wan in addition to injecting Dettol and breathing in fresh sunlight"

[Brunolem]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

The US and Britain have bad food, many obese people, and a high death rate from Corona.

 

The elderly in Thailand probably still eat a healthy diet of mainly vegetables with a little chicken or fish. Not many are obese- that's younger people that are eating bad western style food and red meat.

That would explain why the US and UK rank #1 and #2.

 

That would also explain why the deaths in Thailand were not that much among the elderlies...many of the victims were in their 30s, 40s and 50s...

[Brunolem]

11 hours ago, JungleBiker said:

 

To me it is pretty obvious that it is genetics. 

More probably, it is the result of a mix of things, including:

 

- the weather...tropical countries the world over have less cases and deaths

 

- the diet...East Asian countries, including Japan and South Korea, have less cases and deaths

 

- the local policies to fight the virus...type of lockdown, wearing or not wearing masks

 

- the way of counting...the West has adopted a very flexible way of counting the deaths, even including people who had died without being tested for the virus

 

- the possibility that there exist different mutations of the virus

[JungleBiker]

On 5/9/2020 at 12:57 AM, kingofthemountain said:

Intersting theory

you only forget one element, but an essential one

in these countries live thousands of 

expats, workers, family members and so on

if you was right, these communities should be heavily impacted

at least in the areas where they are in contact with tourists from infected countries

but they are not, so it's not the genetic, probably more the climate. it seems the virus doesn't

like heat, sun and humidity

 

Your expat point is a fair one and I don't have the answer. I am only making a proposition that seems to have been overlooked/ignored by the authorities. It may be wrong. But keep in mind that even in North America and Europe, the vast majority of people have not yet been infected and most of those who have been infected do not show any symptoms. And on top of that, the recent Stanford study in Santa Clara County, California, "estimated that the true "infection fatality rate" of coronavirus — or the number of infected people who die from the disease — is between 0.12% and 0.2%". (https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-antibodies-widespread-in-santa-clara.html) Then keep in mind, that the local population around here could provide herd immunity for the expats. It is also possible, that due to genetic factors, they do not spread the virus as effectively as caucasians do. Anyway, I hope eventually we will all find out what is really going on with this virus.