UK to place all incoming travellers under 14-day quarantine: The Times

[nauseus]

What a balls up. Three months too late. Never mind herd immunity, what about the infectious stampede that's been allowed to go on from all the unchecked UK arrivals as these Covid carabaos ranged freely across the country all through this?

[hotandsticky]

13 minutes ago, nauseus said:

What a balls up. Three months too late. Never mind herd immunity, what about the infectious stampede that's been allowed to go on from all the unchecked UK arrivals as these Covid carabaos ranged freely across the country all through this?

 

 

Not only late to the game, they are still 3 weeks away from implementing it.

 

 

We were surprised when we came back from Sri Lanka on 14 March (to temperature scanning and form filling on the plane and at Swampy) that my daughter went back to Heathrow to absolutely nothing - and nothing has changed since,

[from the home of CC]

18 hours ago, elliss said:

 

      Nought wrong with that matey , golden oldies , three score and ten , more than enough ..

      Join in the chorus , we,ll meet again etc,  thx Dame Vera..

 

they'll be a different tune sung if this starts to kill off the younger population in the next wave..

[brewsterbudgen]

5 hours ago, nauseus said:

What a balls up. Three months too late. Never mind herd immunity, what about the infectious stampede that's been allowed to go on from all the unchecked UK arrivals as these Covid carabaos ranged freely across the country all through this?

Are you suggesting that the death toll from the virus would have been substantially lower had the quarantine process been in place (or flights banned)?  Donald Trump did this in the US and look at their death toll. 

[7by7]

19 hours ago, vinny41 said:

There are many reports of where CUMMINGS PUSHED SAGE FOR EARLIER LOCKDOWN and that they were thinking of delaying a lockdown for 1 more week

Too little, too late.

 

It also begs the question as to how independent the supposedly independent SAGE actually is when two of the Prime Minister's chief political advisors have been attending their meetings since February.

 

The government has said that the reason the membership of SAGE was initially kept secret, and still would be if The Guardian among others had not discovered and revealed it, was to protect the members from being unduly influenced. So what role did political appointees Cummings and Warner play at the meetings if not to influence SAGE toward their, at the time, preferred herd immunity action?

[7by7]

18 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Well according to the health secretary they are now heading towards a capability of 200,000 tests a day.  Given that they tend to be testing less than 80,000 a day I would say that it would be prudent to use the resources better than they are.  It is to do with people coming forward to be tested and that is where there appears to be why there is a short fall.

 

Of course this is all about who and what we can believe, because there is a lot of ducking and diving going on.

 Sorry, it's nothing to do with people coming forward to be tested; it's about the government cocking it up!

 

Government's 'incredible' 100,000 Covid-19 target attracts controversy over 'mailed out' test kits

Quote

More than 40,000 of the total tests include swab kits sent to private homes and satellite testing sites not yet delivered to a laboratory

 

See also @sandyf's post above

 

[vinny41]

9 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Too little, too late.

 

It also begs the question as to how independent the supposedly independent SAGE actually is when two of the Prime Minister's chief political advisors have been attending their meetings since February.

 

The government has said that the reason the membership of SAGE was initially kept secret, and still would be if The Guardian among others had not discovered and revealed it, was to protect the members from being unduly influenced. So what role did political appointees Cummings and Warner play at the meetings if not to influence SAGE toward their, at the time, preferred herd immunity action?

Neither  Cummings and Warner attended every meeting and when   Prof Neil Ferguson was asked the question is a video meeting his reply was “There have been a number of observers at those meetings, who have not interfered with business at all,” he replied.

[7by7]

12 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Neither  Cummings and Warner attended every meeting and when   Prof Neil Ferguson was asked the question is a video meeting his reply was “There have been a number of observers at those meetings, who have not interfered with business at all,” he replied.

 

Is this the same Professor Ferguson who had to resign for breaking his own lockdown rules so he could get his leg over?

 

It still begs the question; what were political advisors doing at any of the meetings at all? 

 

Did Cummings and his puppet the PM not trust SAGE, or did he want to unduly influence them?

 

[vinny41]

10 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Is this the same Professor Ferguson who had to resign for breaking his own lockdown rules so he could get his leg over?

 

It still begs the question; what were political advisors doing at any of the meetings at all? 

 

Did Cummings and his puppet the PM not trust SAGE, or did he want to unduly influence them?

 

Yes the same Professor Ferguson and it was the same Professor Ferguson who stated in an interview that There have been a number of observers at those meetings, who have not interfered with business at all

As to your last question you will have to ask Cummings and Boris directly that question 

[swerve]

Boris is on his game and Hancock is working overtime. 

[7by7]

19 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Yes the same Professor Ferguson and it was the same Professor Ferguson who stated in an interview that There have been a number of observers at those meetings, who have not interfered with business at all

As to your last question you will have to ask Cummings and Boris directly that question 

 

So was Cummings an observer who did not interfere with the business of the meeting; or a participant?

 

I'm asking you because you earlier stated

20 hours ago, vinny41 said:

There are many reports of where CUMMINGS PUSHED SAGE FOR EARLIER LOCKDOWN and that they were thinking of delaying a lockdown for 1 more week

Indeed, you even capitalised it to drive the point home!

 

Try not to contradict yourself again when you answer.

[7by7]

5 minutes ago, swerve said:

Boris is on his game and Hancock is working overtime. 

 In which case, why will it be at least another three weeks before any form of health check, let alone quarantine, is imposed on those entering the UK? 

 

A move which should have been implemented at least 8 weeks ago!

 

Due to the death of her sister after a long, non coronavirus illness my wife flew to Thailand on the 25th Feb and I on the 28th. Before even reaching Thai immigration, our temperatures were checked and those whose were too high were pulled to one side for further testing.

 

While we were in Thailand most people were voluntarily wearing masks and if we wanted to enter a Seven11, Tesco Lotus etc. had to wear a mask, have our temperature checked and our hands disinfected. The same for large malls such as MBK before they were closed for the duration.

 

Same upon entering the airport for our return to the UK on 28th April.

 

Same again before being allowed to board our flight at the gate.

 

Upon arrival in the UK, nothing. No checks at all: anywhere.

 

Boris on top of his game? If so, he'd best resign and let a competent person take over. He reminds me of Chamberlain and Cummings of Halifax in 1940; but I'm afraid there's no Churchill to replace them.

 

 

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed. 

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Are you suggesting that the death toll from the virus would have been substantially lower had the quarantine process been in place (or flights banned)?  Donald Trump did this in the US and look at their death toll. 

I am saying that it is too late. Most damage was done in Jan/Feb/Mar. It would follow that the death toll would have been lower with very restricted travel but who can say by how much? 

[vinny41]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

So was Cummings an observer who did not interfere with the business of the meeting; or a participant?

 

I'm asking you because you earlier stated

Indeed, you even capitalised it to drive the point home!

 

Try not to contradict yourself again when you answer.

Silly 7by7 it was capitalised as it was cut and pasted nothing more nothing less and for an answer to your question you need to direct that question to Professor Ferguson as he is the only person that can provide you with a definitive answer to who he was referring to when he was asked the question which he gave a reply to

 

And if someone is in a meeting and asks the question Should the lockdown happen sooner I don't think that is interfering with the business of the meeting its simply asking the question

Edited May 10, 2020 by vinny41
additional info

[elliss]

2 hours ago, swerve said:

Boris is on his game and Hancock is working overtime. 

 

 Boris will soon be a member of the religious cloth @ Westminster .

    Burning his sacred  candle , at both ends .

     Nothing new in politics ..

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by elliss

[elliss]

On 5/9/2020 at 6:35 PM, dunroaming said:

I also think that this government is a one trick pony based on Brexit.  Certainly Boris is anyway.  The fallout from this may well work in his favour because the many negative effects of Brexit will be blamed on this pandemic.

 

 Brexit , that is a bad memory ...

     I just want to go home , to my beloved mother land , UK .

      Not forgetting , NHS free medical care , and social security benefits, including free housing ..

     

Edited May 10, 2020 by elliss

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Are you suggesting that the death toll from the virus would have been substantially lower had the quarantine process been in place (or flights banned)?  Donald Trump did this in the US and look at their death toll. 

Are you saying that the 600 plus positive cases that were picked up at Thai airports through temperature screening alone would have had no effect if allowed to roam the community. The UK are still putting up every argument under the sun against temperature screening.

Not a silver bullet but a significant weapon in the arsenal.

 

The repatriation flights from Wuhan and the cruise ship were quarantined and it is an absolute certainty that lives would have been saved if the same policy had continued.

Quoting Trump's failings is hardly a valid argument, where is the science in that. The science has always supported isolation, but it's the politicians that make the decisions.

[hotandsticky]

16 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Are you suggesting that the death toll from the virus would have been substantially lower had the quarantine process been in place (or flights banned)?  Donald Trump did this in the US and look at their death toll. 

 

 

You mean as in USA 244 deaths per million population versus UK 469 ?

 

 

Thailand was particularly successful at airport screening (after the first batch escaped and the army put in control).

[7by7]

18 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Silly 7by7 it was capitalised as it was cut and pasted nothing more nothing less

Standard netiquette is that a cut and paste job should at the very least include a link to the source. Had you done so some of the confusion caused by your contradicting yourself could probably have been avoided.

 

18 hours ago, vinny41 said:

and for an answer to your question you need to direct that question to Professor Ferguson as he is the only person that can provide you with a definitive answer to who he was referring to when he was asked the question which he gave a reply to

Sorry, this bit doesn't make any sense.

 

18 hours ago, vinny41 said:

And if someone is in a meeting and asks the question Should the lockdown happen sooner I don't think that is interfering with the business of the meeting its simply asking the question

But that's not what you said. You claimed, or now say quoted from an unnamed source, that Cummings pushed SAGE for earlier lockdown. Whether he was right to do so or not, that's not merely asking questions!

[brewsterbudgen]

6 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

You mean as in USA 244 deaths per million population versus UK 469 ?

 

 

Thailand was particularly successful at airport screening (after the first batch escaped and the army put in control).

I'm all for preventative measures taken to stop people infected people travelling, or to isolate arrivals who are symptomatic.  That's not what bumbling Boris is proposing.  Enforced mandatory quarantine for ALL arrivals is a sledgehammer to crack a nut, especially now, and is just one more desperate attempt by the government to be seen to be doing something.

[7by7]

22 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I'm all for preventative measures taken to stop people infected people travelling, or to isolate arrivals who are symptomatic.  That's not what bumbling Boris is proposing.  Enforced mandatory quarantine for ALL arrivals is a sledgehammer to crack a nut, especially now, and is just one more desperate attempt by the government to be seen to be doing something.

 

The trouble is that Boris isn't proposing enforced quarantine; he's proposing that maybe he'll introduce some form of voluntary quarantine in a few weeks time.

 

Which is too little, too late.

 

Whilst we are still in the process of learning about the virus, indications are that people with the virus are contagious before symptoms appear (many articles on this, such as COVID-19 may be most contagious one to two days before symptoms appear).

 

Estimates of how many people have entered the UK since the 1st March vary from 100,000 in total up to an average of 15,000 per day.

 

Let's say that just 1 of those had the virus, but were yet to display any symptoms. At the beginning of March the UK's R number (see here) was around 4. So that person could have infected another 4, who could have infected another 16, who could have infected another 64, who could have infected another 256, who could have infected another 1024, and so on (you can do the maths).

 

How many people have died because, unlike many others, this government didn't introduce any entry restrictions, let alone quarantine, measures?

 

How many more will because they are still dithering over what and when?

[brewsterbudgen]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

The trouble is that Boris isn't proposing enforced quarantine; he's proposing that maybe he'll introduce some form of voluntary quarantine in a few weeks time.

 

Which is too little, too late.

 

Whilst we are still in the process of learning about the virus, indications are that people with the virus are contagious before symptoms appear (many articles on this, such as COVID-19 may be most contagious one to two days before symptoms appear).

 

Estimates of how many people have entered the UK since the 1st March vary from 100,000 in total up to an average of 15,000 per day.

 

Let's say that just 1 of those had the virus, but were yet to display any symptoms. At the beginning of March the UK's R number (see here) was around 4. So that person could have infected another 4, who could have infected another 16, who could have infected another 64, who could have infected another 256, who could have infected another 1024, and so on (you can do the maths).

 

How many people have died because, unlike many others, this government didn't introduce any entry restrictions, let alone quarantine, measures?

 

How many more will because they are still dithering over what and when?

I must admit the way I read it was that the quarantine would be enforced, with fines of up to £1,000 for those caught breaking it.  If it turns out to be voluntary, or only for those showing symptoms, I will be pleasantly surprised.

[7by7]

11 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I must admit the way I read it was that the quarantine would be enforced, with fines of up to £1,000 for those caught breaking it.  If it turns out to be voluntary, or only for those showing symptoms, I will be pleasantly surprised.

 

Pleasantly surprised?

 

Do you not care that after doing nothing on this front for over two months, the measures which the government may finally introduce will be woefully inadequate?

 

Maybe you're currently out of the UK and don't want to be 'inconvenienced' by any restrictions? Like Tory MP Daniel Kawczynski: Senedd roundup: English MP calls for Welsh Parliament to be abolished – so he can go to the beach

 

[elliss]

On 5/9/2020 at 2:52 PM, poohy said:

That would be my number on plan as well

this year i am planning returning and doing 6 months in UK and 6 month here or as near dont matter to get residency and NHS benefits again

After 25 years away time to get my feet under the table again

 

 Stop press.   UK care homes  have vacancies galore .

    House rules , isolate, deteriorate , then vegitate ..

 

 

Edited May 12, 2020 by elliss

[stevenl]

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Pleasantly surprised?

 

Do you not care that after doing nothing on this front for over two months, the measures which the government may finally introduce will be woefully inadequate?

 

Maybe you're currently out of the UK and don't want to be 'inconvenienced' by any restrictions? Like Tory MP Daniel Kawczynski: Senedd roundup: English MP calls for Welsh Parliament to be abolished – so he can go to the beach

 

Imo the point where measures like this are effective has passed. Probably better of now to just do nothing, just try to protect the elderly and medical workers.