Thai People Are Not A Nice As I Thought

[Francis Maube]

My wifes story of her life as a child and then as a woman has come out over the two years of our marriage. It paints a nasty picture of life in a Thai village and came as something of a shock to me.

As a girl my wife was very shy, this because the people she knew would always tell her she was ugly, she was darker skined than her siblings who being lighter where seen as beautiful. As an eight year old she had to run errands and do what little jobs she could just so she was able to buy a pencil or an exersise book for school. Her family would not help her buy things like this.

At the age of twelve she left school to earn a living for herself, again, no one in the family wanted to help her. She first found work in a Bangkok book store, then later in a factory. At times she would travel back to the village to see her family but was never welcomed by them, well not until the time she went back with some hard eared money.

Yes, that was different, sudenly the family where so friendly, she had friends too, now people who never spoke to her before would stop and ask where she was going. She tells me this is not unusual, if you have money you have friends, if poor you dont. Ok, it can be like that elswhere I know, but it seems the Thai women can be so bitchy to each other.

I wonder if anyone else has come across similar attitudes?

If your wife happen to have brothers, why not asking her if they experienced the same treatment from the family and the villagers? Then share the story with the rest of us.

[KireB]

LC, how dare you tell the truth and pour water on yet another attempted Thai bashing thread !!

My bad. Sowwie.

I will try to come up with some horrible stories later.

As long as it makes The Thais look bad and the Farangs look like victims, then these guys will be happy.

These guys, those guys......... C'mon you must be kidding me!

We all live in this country and that means we have a certain opinion about it's culture. You call it Thai bashing, I call it independent thought! I like this country very much, but am shocked to see how a lot of parents are cashing in on their daughters.

[sunshine13]

I am 59 years old, but many of my close friends are thai teenagers. I would say that these attitudes exist much less in thailand then in the UK. The teens here are much more open and accepting of different people. They call me "Big Poppa".

[A_Traveller]

I am 59 years old, but many of my close friends are thai teenagers. I would say that these attitudes exist much less in thailand then in the UK. The teens here are much more open and accepting of different people. They call me "Big Poppa".

I'm not really sure I want to know this.

Have you considered increasing your medication and reducing your time on TV, please?

Regards

[DisainaM]

in western cultures, we know this bashing to people like convicts, who get their society response, based on their deeds.

in thai cultures, dark skinned people get their sesponse, based on their deeds in their last life.

If you are raped, dark skinned or disabeld, you are punished by fate, for what you have done before, may be a murder, may be a gangster.

Nobody wants to have contact with a person, who will only receive suffering the whole life,

but if the person is turning the fate, and becomes wealthy,

everybody likes to come close to a person, hoping that they can get just a little bit, of positive energy of fate.

to understand this, have a look on this photo,

http://www.pattayapeople.com/default.asp?F...;IdArticle=5055

why is it necessary, that everybody knows the id card of a rape victim ?

cause she is not only a victim, but also s.o., who is punished for her former deeds

[AmeriThai]

I guess I must be lucky. Out in our neck of the sticks, most people are friendly to others and very affectionate and caring of the children. Sure, there are a few airheads, but the majority are very good people.

[onzestan]

One thing that does strike me is that Thai people are certainly not as sentimental as we are in the west, do we westerners confuse this with being "nice"

MM

I think that's not really true. I think we westerners have difficulties in recognizing the true feelings of Thai people, because they hide so many things behind their smiles.

I also think that the OP is a bit influenced by the fact that he loves his wife, and in doing so accepts his wife's story without questioning it, and this is normal and I'm not condemning it, I'm sometimes guilty of it myself.

But sometimes it's wise not to believe everything first hand.

Furthermore it is something from the past, and our memories can play tricks with us(mine do). so better not put to much importance on it. It should be enough that you care for each other now regardless of what happened in the past, it's the future thats important.

Good luck to you both and let the past be the past.

onzestan

[Maigo6]

I am 59 years old, but many of my close friends are thai teenagers.

lol..................

[LivinLOS]

I have lived in a few 3rd world places.. Arab africa, time in bali etc.. So am fairly used to the issues of poverty and hardship and how that shapes life differently to western support systems..

But to be honest the horror stories I have become aware of have shocked me..

Wifey was abandonded by her drunk mother.. she literally just walked off to drink and play cards leaving 3 kids (wifey was middle) to fend for themselves for days.. Discovered hungry by the local primary school teacher and adopted by other family members..

Horror stories of inter family child abuse.. etc etc.. Playing hide and seek from drunken horny uncles !!!

Current GF has scars where her mother (seems to have been more than a little unbalanced from what I can tell) cut her etc..

The amount of girls I know who are the families earning system is pretty high.. Would be one thing but visits upcountry has seen the local male population drinking lao khao in the morning.. Wifeys response.. No work up here for them.. OK for the daughters to go and find an income but not ok for Khun paw to sober up enough to go anywhere..

So yeah.. Put me in the camp of no ones worse to Thais then Thais..

[jgarty38]

My wife is a very happy woman now. Most people in the village talk and smile at her, many call at our home to talk. She is popular now.

Her father though is still a lover of his Thai whiskey(as are many men in the village) every day if he can. This is a fact, not Thai bashing. He shows his care and love is for the one daughter working in Bangkok, the lighter skinned daughter. He has not been told that she has a Thai boy friend and a baby, she has visited him only once in a year.

My wife, the dark skinned one, takes care of all his needs and is always there for him, but gets no thanks for it.

Let me add that as an old get I remember the days in England when if you had a pair of shoes to go to school in you where well off. I also recomend the book A ragged trouserd philanthrapist.+ Excuse my spelling

[endure]

I remember the days in England when if you had a pair of shoes to go to school in you where well off. I also recomend the book A ragged trouserd philanthrapist.+ Excuse my spelling

Can you remind us in which year those with a pair of shoes to go to school with in England were well off? Which year do you specifically remember? Was it before or after the publication of 'The ragged trousered philanthropist' which incidentally was 97 years ago. Perhaps you could give us a bit more detail about your shoeless days in England. Did you sweep chimneys in your spare time? Were you a lamp boy in the evenings? Did you run around after the hansom cabs sweeping up horse dung?

[Mobi]

I remember the days in England when if you had a pair of shoes to go to school in you where well off. I also recomend the book A ragged trouserd philanthrapist.+ Excuse my spelling

Can you remind us in which year those with a pair of shoes to go to school with in England were well off? Which year do you specifically remember? Was it before or after the publication of 'The ragged trousered philanthropist' which incidentally was 97 years ago. Perhaps you could give us a bit more detail about your shoeless days in England. Did you sweep chimneys in your spare time? Were you a lamp boy in the evenings? Did you run around after the hansom cabs sweeping up horse dung?

Does it really matter if there is an element of exaggeration?

The point he is making, is the same one I made earlier. If you go back 100 years or so in England, you will find a society where the poor really did suffer, and we know from literature and other writing and letters of earlier centuries, that quite often the poor were treated abominably, and were often outcasts in a cruel society where money meant everything. Not unlike some parts of rural Thailand today.

I am only 60, but I well remember my childhood where we had no hot water in our house, outside toilets, and certainly no central heating. Some of my abiding memories of childhood are being freezing cold all winter, of being thrown out of the house to play from dawn to dusk, having a bath every Sunday night using my siblings' dirty water that had been heated in a tin tub on the gas stove, running errands for a spectacle workshop when I came home from school and handing over the wages to the family purse, doing a paper round from the crack of dawn, 7 days a week and handing over those wages, the whole family being evicted from our house when I was 10 years old for non payment of rent and being split up for the next 12 months, until some kind soul found us a council flat......Need I go on?

No doubt if jcart38 is 70, he would remember the days before the national health service, which were extremely harsh on those at the bottom of the pile.

England wasn't always a land of milk and honey with a flourishing welfare state - and not that long ago either.

Maybe in another 50 years Thailand will also be able to properly take care of all it's citizens, and people will change their attitudes to the less fortunate amongst them.

[dumspero]

The Op just relates a bad experience he's aware of and then asks if anyone's aware of similar situations. That's not Thai bashing or generalizing. Instead, he's looking to learn more about how that experience fits into the bigger picture. Seems to me that sure, some people bash Thailand on here, but others just throw out that accusation whether it fits or not.

Of course there are good people and bad people everywhere. To me, the issue is which components of the OP's story, if any, fit into a bigger cultural scheme that is unique to Thailand. For me, I'm not sure any do. Everywhere I've been people tend to look down on the poor and the darker skinned, as others have already noted. And nothing unique about a poor family sending (a little different than the OP's accounting, but perhaps still true) a child at a young age to Bangkok to work in a factory. Most of the factory workers from Thailand I know have similar stories, as do those from other poor countries (including China, PI, Bangladesh, etc.). The other elements of the story don't seem cultrually based, more like just about that family (if true).

So while I don't see anything here that's unique about Thai culture, I don't see how the OP is Thai bashing.

[November Rain]

My BF's mother ran off with another man when he was 12, leaving him with his father. His father died when he was 14, so he raised himself, taught himself music & became a musician. He married and got a house, car etc. When he divorced, his wife screwed him out of everything. He got a girl pregnant. She wanted money for an abortion, but he refused. He moved away, but came back to visit. When she had the baby boy, she neglected him, left him alone while she went out partying with new boyfriends & starved him. My BF took his son away from her "care" when he was 6 months old. I now care for his son, as he (BF) died a year ago. All of the above (apart from me) are Thais.

My father's mother ran off with another man when he was 10, leaving him with his father. He & his brother had to cook, clean & take care of the house from that time on, whilst my grandfather worked. At 15, my father joined the Navy.

When I was 16, my paternal grandmother (same woman) tried to get my grandfather (her ex) put into a home & declared mentally incompetent in order to get his house & savings for herself & her new husband. My parents opposed this & they all went to court over it. I have had no contact with that grandmother since that time. All of the above are British.

True stories. Good & bad everywhere...

Edited April 18, 2007 by November Rain

[qualtrough]

The Op just relates a bad experience he's aware of and then asks if anyone's aware of similar situations. That's not Thai bashing or generalizing.

No, he did a bit more than that. The title of his post begins with, 'Thai People Are Not A [sic] Nice As I Thought. That is a pretty big generalization given the facts he presents. Perhaps he meant to write that 'Some Thai People' were not as nice as he thought, but that is not what he wrote.

[dumspero]

qualtrough- fair enough- the title goes beyond the post.

[Mobi]

The Op just relates a bad experience he's aware of and then asks if anyone's aware of similar situations. That's not Thai bashing or generalizing.

No, he did a bit more than that. The title of his post begins with, 'Thai People Are Not A [sic] Nice As I Thought. That is a pretty big generalization given the facts he presents. Perhaps he meant to write that 'Some Thai People' were not as nice as he thought, but that is not what he wrote.

Or maybe the Op was saying that he used to look at Thais through 'rose tinted glasses' and that he used to think that Thai people were VERY nice, and now he realises they are not as nice as he previously thought....

....in fact, about the same as people everywhere

Just a thought

[dr_Pat_Pong]

It is easy for us in the west to decry such attitudes, but before we condemn, we should realise how lucky were are to be born into a world where our basic needs are taken care of by the state - this is not the case in Thailand.

Good point

I have often wondered what the UK would be like if we did not have a benefit system.

What would Thailand be like if it did have a benefit system?

MM

That'd be very interesting I'd say.

[cdnvic]

If its anything like it is in Canada, I'd be buying Boon Rawd shares.

[noungning]

well from personal experience and knowledge as a young one, i know there are goods and bads.

but something about being lighter skinned and association to rich. i've been trying to come to an understanding of why and i've sorted out some things:

lighter skin = not fully thai (i.e. half farang, chinese, and the rest), IMO, i think people associates lighter skin to chinese (going back ages ago when there were minimal mixed thai farangs), and the chinese were the more wealthy people. so they see that the lighter child is like the destined child to bring fortune and luck to the family. it's like a symbol or association.

the fads in thailand, ALL teen boppers LOVES to get whiter! notice from the million dollar marketing ads with the words "Whitening", but now it's engraved in many's opinion that being white doesn't just mean wealthy, it also means beauty, which they could be sent into pageants and such to get money to help the family.

but until people can be real and not materialistic, this won't stop. and i don't think it'd happen before the bred of pigs with wings.

edit- spelling

Edited April 18, 2007 by noungning

[Ijustwannateach]

I think it's quite easy for those who only have a limited experience or contact with a limited number of people to assume everyone is like that group of people. I know people who have been coming to/living in Thailand for quite some time now, and still say things like "all Thais are ... blah blah blah ...," whether for good or for bad. This leads both to the phenomenon of rose-coloured lenses and the bitter ol' cranks.

People who get deeply involved in long term relationships before they have met a lot of different Thai people- and there must be a number of them here- will naturally assume everyone else must be like that, because they lack perspective. I think this is one reason not to come to Thailand for any particular relationship- you need to have a very broad experience so that you know the range of behaviors and people that are common, so you have the best possible information for your decisions.

I'd say that decent behavior is decent behavior, and lousy behavior is lousy behavior, and if you're with one of the lousy group the best thing to do is probably get away, unless that's what you like (some people do- low self-esteem makes it impossible for them to accept a decent partner, and so they make do with the ones who treat them badly).

Anyway, the longer I'm here the more I find Thai people across the broadest possible spectrum, and it's really more a matter of where the people you choose to be with are on that spectrum that determines what kind of experience you'll have of Thai people.

"S"

[endure]

well from personal experience and knowledge as a young one, i know there are goods and bads.

but something about being lighter skinned and association to rich. i've been trying to come to an understanding of why and i've sorted out some things:

lighter skin = not fully thai (i.e. half farang, chinese, and the rest), IMO, i think people associates lighter skin to chinese (going back ages ago when there were minimal mixed thai farangs), and the chinese were the more wealthy people. so they see that the lighter child is like the destined child to bring fortune and luck to the family. it's like a symbol or association.

I think it's probably more likely that lighter skins are associated with people who don't have to perform manual labour in the sun for a living. The white skin syndrome isn't confined to Thais.

[qwertz]

well from personal experience and knowledge as a young one, i know there are goods and bads.

but something about being lighter skinned and association to rich. i've been trying to come to an understanding of why and i've sorted out some things:

lighter skin = not fully thai (i.e. half farang, chinese, and the rest), IMO, i think people associates lighter skin to chinese (going back ages ago when there were minimal mixed thai farangs), and the chinese were the more wealthy people. so they see that the lighter child is like the destined child to bring fortune and luck to the family. it's like a symbol or association.

I think it's probably more likely that lighter skins are associated with people who don't have to perform manual labour in the sun for a living. The white skin syndrome isn't confined to Thais.

Not to mention the patrons of windowless beer bars.

[Laughing Gravy]

An interesting topic and as the op asks has anyone else had a similar experience. As usual anything considered negative on this forum gets a barrage of comparasons to the west and how not all people are like this.

The sooner people and especially Thailand accepts constructive feedback (criticism) the better it will be. I think it is one of the major problems here in Thailand.

The op is just giving his personal experience and relaying his experience to his situation. Again what the comparison of the UK and the victorian times isn't really relevant. To the original question, yes I know of many cases similar. Sad that it is. But having a poor infastructure on social services it will continue to happen

What is clear here and it certainly is different from the UK is that it is a clear class and caste system.

Before people 'spit their dummies' out I don't think that the UK is perfect, far from it. That's one of the reasons why I chose to live here. But I don't see voicing my right of opinion a bad thing, in fact the opposite. What I do think is that the UK and the western world can learn from Thailand and visa versa. But as usual from the "we can't have anything negative about Thailand crew," the op gets slated and and instead of talking about the question in hand, comparisons are made to the west. The op is talking about here in Thailnd.

I feel sad for the ops wife as I know it goes on here and in other countries. I just wish a more caring approach was available to children and adults, especially women here. But as many people are quick to compare that it might take over 100 years before things change (and maybe two world wars).

As someone else mentioned, although very difficult. Maybe your wife needs to move on from the past. I know it is easy me saying this. Have you thought about counselling. Good luck anyway.

Edited April 19, 2007 by Laughing Gravy

[Heng]

lighter skin = not fully thai (i.e. half farang, chinese, and the rest), IMO, i think people associates lighter skin to chinese (going back ages ago when there were minimal mixed thai farangs), and the chinese were the more wealthy people. so they see that the lighter child is like the destined child to bring fortune and luck to the family. it's like a symbol or association.

Actually there are a good number of Thais that are not luk krungs (with Chinese, Japanese, farang, etc. blood) who are pale. And yes, these tend to be those who are wealthier and have not had to work outside, often for generations. There's Thai skin (and Asian skin in general) that is nearly as black as negro skin and also skin that is pale to the pont of being almost translucent, without having anything to do with mixed bloodlines.

[bina]

white rules every where. my daughter is blond blond blond and among certain ethnic groups here in my country she is made a fuss over much more then 'darker' kids... even in this day and age!!!and we ahve lots of blonds, including dark skinned women who colour their black hair to blond...)

among thai families, i suspect that lighter skinned kids get favourable treatment w/o it even being noticable. im sure someone has done a dissertation on the affect of skin colour and family position etc etc... (anyone looking for a masters degree idea?). white means wealth, no field work, etc. and advets push the idea. just look at hollywood movie stars even in israel: not as many 'arab' or 'yemen' looking women as there are blond, american style tv personalities. and kids see this and associate wealth with looks and the looks are 'blond/light'. hard to say if its the egg or chicken in this case of thailand and colour.

yes, in thailand, often one child is favoured over an other : who will be the one, if any, to go to higher education? (high school not college!); who will stay as a monk, who will be sent off to work...i know hundreds of stories of men who were sent to work overseas while brother or sister was sent to high school or married off with the money sent from abroad. usually there is one in every family who is the 'family supporter/provider' at the expense of personal benefit.

my husband was a monk for a year and mom decided they really need money for older brother's educ. ; so husband was taken out of doing what he liked and was suited for, and sent off to bangkok factory. previusly from age 12 he was working in fields etc. ; he had no money for pencils (he is artistic and wanted coloured pencils).

he was considered the 'dense' one; the hard headed, stupid child. he wasnt less loved, but was considered not worth investing in. the older brother was invested in instead. my husband is almost black; his brother is lighter. is that the reason? hard to tell. dont think that his parents chose conciously, maybe ? his mother is black dark also. they love him dearly. he now has me, a well educated farang wife. of course status in family goes up.

will they love him more if he brings in more money? maybe. money=food=love.

how many western parents are disappointed in their kids life choices, or prefer one child over an other even subltly. usually the more succesful one.

and some families are just non functional for whatever reasons there are, no matter what nationality they are. and certainly, poverty exacerbates any previous or underlying conditions/feelings etc as poverty is constant stress.

dolly parton used to sing, we were poor but we had loving. but how many more families sent their kids to work in coal mines, farming, etc even in the states? and yes even now. even with school as required. how many kids are dropping out to support their dysfunctional or impoverished families. which child in the family does this? in every nationality, the criterion is different. in some, the daughter is worth less. in others, the ugly one. the stupid one. the darker one. the one that reminds the father of the wife he cant stand.

and yes, thai can be bad to thai. and in israel we now have jewish rapists and jewish politicians whereas it used to be that (among my parents generation) they couldnt imagine (horror of horrors) that people could be bad to 'their own'.

[m155g0ld]

Your wife needs to move on & appriciate the things she has now, if it were me, I would love going back to the village to prove to them that their mistreatment has made her the women she is now & she is better off for it.

Well said Boo!

[OlRedEyes]

A few thoughts.

There are 'good' and 'bad' people everywhere, but there are also underlying trends. Culture. No non-ignorant person can argue that in the East boys are regarded higher than girls, light than darker etc.

Generally, people react much stronger when a raw nerve is touched.

It's quite telling when the defense of what happened in other countries centuries ago is used to make 'bad' seem not so 'bad'.

[Luckydog]

It is easy for us in the west to decry such attitudes, but before we condemn, we should realise how lucky were are to be born into a world where our basic needs are taken care of by the state - this is not the case in Thailand.

Good point

I have often wondered what the UK would be like if we did not have a benefit system.

What would Thailand be like if it did have a benefit system?

MM

What a fascinating thought! Too bad we will never know the answer.......

[noungning]

I think it's probably more likely that lighter skins are associated with people who don't have to perform manual labour in the sun for a living. The white skin syndrome isn't confined to Thais.

yes i forgot to include that factor. but some are born really dark even if they've never met the sun in a way the manual laborers do.

Actually there are a good number of Thais that are not luk krungs (with Chinese, Japanese, farang, etc. blood) who are pale. And yes, these tend to be those who are wealthier and have not had to work outside, often for generations. There's Thai skin (and Asian skin in general) that is nearly as black as negro skin and also skin that is pale to the pont of being almost translucent, without having anything to do with mixed bloodlines.

Right! i've seen some pale people and wondered how'd they get so light, but it's in the genes.

but from what i was told, real thais are really dark skinned. i'm not sure how true that is, but it's been told from practically all the thai people i've talked to.

and great Bina! it's very true, that those types of things where one is favored over another happens spontaneously, and coincidently it happens to be the lighter child.