Primary schools in Chiang Mai - our experience

[1arry1iu]

Hi guys, we have visited a few primary schools offering Thai programs in Chiang Mai and enrolled our daughter, Dangmoo, into P. 2. Here is our experience with some of the schools before registration.

 

The Good

 

Regina Coeli College

Sarasas Witaed Chiang Mai School

 

The Bad

 

Ambassador Bilingual School

Montfort College Primary Section

Wachirawit School

 

The Ugly

 

Dara Academy, amid its long history, seemed to have descended into a mediocre private school whose only purpose is money. We went to the school on the morning of the first day, I believe, of its registration for Academic Year 2020. Immediately after driving into the school, we started to worry about our daughter's safety. The cars parked everywhere despite there were some car parks that were obvious but signposted unclearly. Arriving at the administration building, we inquired a staff member behind a pane of glass pretty similar to those in many Thai bureaucratic institutions about registering our daughter as a new student. The man was too handsome to answer our questions immediately, but all too eager to talk to his female colleagues. After a while, he turned to us and spared a look of a typical Thai bureaucrat. My wife was not happy, but was willing to cooperate, and asked him the question again. He said yes. She then asked if we could see the curriculum and, perhaps, a sampler timetable. The man responded briefly, "Go pay a 300 baht registration fee first." There is a word in Chinese spelled 装逼, trans-literally, to pretend to be the big boss, used to describe someone who is  pretentious out of his league. That man there, standing behind the glass, was among the 装逼est staff in educational institutions I have seen. in Thailand. Imagine him teaching your children! Dara Academy might still have a good name on a recent ranking of best Thai schools, but the reality is harsh. I will not entrust my child's education into a place where staff are arrogant and the only concern is money.

 

Satit Bilingual School of Rangsit University, despite the grandeur of its modern buildings, rare in Northern Thailand, is nothing but one that is taking advantage of the good Cambridge brand name. The young lady who received us spoke adequate English and started to point out her school was Cambridge accredited. She seemed to care about it too much, and would come back to it every few seconds. I would later understand that since she had been hired as a beautiful vase who happened to speak adequate English, her knowledge about education was minimum, and the Cambridge brand name was her panacea for all bitter questions. She continued to introduce to us the Cambridge iGCSE and A-Level programs, but failed to realize we came for Grade 2 in primary school, despite that I reminded her three times that our daughter did not come for those programs. I asked her what primary educational programs the school offered, and she did not have the answer. She went back to her panacea and said, "All our textbooks are published by Cambridge and in English," as if everyone should kowtow to a foreign brand and foreign language. After a while, she was either too impatient or intimidated by my questions, and said the most unbelievable thing out of the mouth of a sales representative, "Since you come from China, can I ask someone who speak Chinese to talk to you?" It appeared then that my fluent English substantiated by my MA in English education in London and 9 in IELTS Speaking was irrelevant. She left, and a woman who spoke Chinese came and still could not give me the name of the primary school program More creative than her ill-informed, poorly-trained colleague who obviously had emotion regulation issues, however, she said their primary school program was called "Cambridge International Program". I want to congratulate the University of Cambridge since they have selected such an innovative partner, but will never pay the outrageously overpriced THB 500,000+ for something that is barely international and remotely education.

[XGM]

47 minutes ago, 1arry1iu said:

but will never pay the outrageously overpriced THB 500,000+ for something that is barely international and remotely education.

You could go to Prem if that's your budget, or to CMIS for 70% of that.

What do you expect from a Thai school? they'll all be awful. And most International Schools here are just one notch better than "awful".

 

[Bill97]

14 minutes ago, XGM said:

most International Schools here are just one notch better than "awful".

Not that bad

 

But of course US public schools are great

[XGM]

57 minutes ago, Bill97 said:

Not that bad

 

But of course US public schools are great

A private school has a much higher budget and flexibility that allow it to really be great. A public school is limited in many ways. The correct comparison should be private schools here and there, not private Intl' school in Thailand where parents pay $10,000 - $30,000 a year to a US public school.

[Bill97]

1 hour ago, XGM said:

A private school has a much higher budget and flexibility that allow it to really be great. A public school is limited in many ways. The correct comparison should be private schools here and there, not private Intl' school in Thailand where parents pay $10,000 - $30,000 a year to a US public school.

No total costs should be considered, not just school fees.  Total costs to include food, housing, medical, transport....

[beau thai]

we are happy with Sarasas 2 years in but as with any school it is not without criticism. But our lad is happy there and learning. Right now, online!

You probably know that truth is no defence here against defamation and, personally, I would be wary of the criticims ypou posted above. My advice? Take them down.

[flare]

Does anyone have an opinion of Unity Concord?

[Throatwobbler]

2 hours ago, flare said:

Does anyone have an opinion of Unity Concord?

I think it is run by the same people who run Ambassador. See where the OP rates that school.

[flare]

14 minutes ago, Throatwobbler said:

I think it is run by the same people who run Ambassador. See where the OP rates that school.

I'm more interested in hearing from someone whose kids actually go there- this likely wasn't the best thread to ask, I suppose...

[1arry1iu]

The Bad

 

Ambassador Bilingual School was the last school we visited. The Thai teacher in charge was more interested in playing with her phone than receiving us. My wife believed she had judged us by our clothes since we did not dress up properly like many Thai couples would do in such occasions. The Western teacher who showed us around the campus was professional, but not as eager to communicate with my daughter as teachers in other schools. I would guess it was partially due to the formality of the meeting and the authority dynamic she was in with the Thai teacher in charge.

 

Montfort College Primary Section looked charming from the outside, and we were received by a young lady warmly at Admission. The issues we had with the school is that no literature about their educational programs was provided except a simple advertising leaflet in Thai, English, and Chinese. We asked about the curriculum, textbooks, and a sampler timetable, and they had none. They seemed to have adopted a just-trust-us philosophy. What concerned my wife particularly is how come their sales representative or admission officer did not speak either English or Chinese while apparently quite a number of their students were from China if not the West. We walked out, thinking how this school, or maybe its Secondary Section, could be named in a national ranking.

 

Wachirawit School was the second school we visited. It lost my wife when we parked in front of the main building facing a river without a fence or wall in between. She asked what if playful children fall into the river by accident. It lost my daughter when we climbed a few dozen staircases into the lobby of the main building where parents stood in a long queue paying their children's tuition. My daughter said, "It looks like a public hospital." It lost me when the female teacher who received us at the Registrar's Office started by showing us a fee schedule, instead of telling us about the programs they offered. Needless to say, they could not show us the curriculum, textbooks, or a sampler timetable.

[1arry1iu]

On 5/19/2020 at 9:15 AM, XGM said:

You could go to Prem if that's your budget, or to CMIS for 70% of that.

What do you expect from a Thai school? they'll all be awful. And most International Schools here are just one notch better than "awful".

 

Thank you, XGM. We are more interested in Thai instead of English programs. We went to Satit Rangsit because I was misinformed and thought bilingual schools should offer Thai programs. 

  

On 5/19/2020 at 12:39 PM, beau thai said:

we are happy with Sarasas 2 years in but as with any school it is not without criticism. But our lad is happy there and learning. Right now, online!

You probably know that truth is no defence here against defamation and, personally, I would be wary of the criticims ypou posted above. My advice? Take them down.

Thank you, beau thai. We will probably choose Sarasas, too. I am glad your son is loving it, and hope my daughter will love it, too.

As for my post, I have no intention to take it down. Like I said, it is our experience, and not intended to be the truth.

[cardinalblue]

It would help if you weren’t a product of Arkansas public school education...

 

marketing is not a Thai strength so thai schools reflect what thai parents care about first - cost...

 

an excellent school would never mention price in its promotion and selling to prospective parents until asked by parents...

 

in fairness, thai private schools are trying to sell to mainly Thais and just don’t understand international/english education...

 

unfortunately like a car dealership, selling/promoting puts a pretty face out there rather than a competent and bright person as it’s face...sadly, who you interact with are products themselves of thai education...

 

and that’s the hurdle that non Thai parents must negotiate and overcome...

Edited May 21, 2020 by cardinalblue

[BritManToo]

They're all closed, who knows what like they'll be like if they ever reopen?

My kid goes to San Sai government school, it's supposed to be free but they squeeze everyone for 6,000bht for books, cloths and extra lessons (2x a year).

Edited May 21, 2020 by BritManToo

[bryan45876]

We went on a trip last summer and visited a ton of primary schools:

• Chiang Mai International, Varee, ABS, Unity Concord, American Pacific International, Lanna, Chiang Mai Montessori, Sangtit Rangsit

If you want to know more about any of them or our impressions let me know. We too want the Thai system and decided on Varee. We haven’t moved there yet, but plan too later this year if/when things return to normal. Ideally in time for the next semester to start in October. If we stayed long term we would probably switch to Chiang Mai International as we know the American system, but at first we want our kids to have more of a Thai immersion experience.

[iainiain101]

We wanted our kids to learn Thai and so chose Varee. They have the 3 streams, Thai, Bi-lingual and International. 11 years on, there have been issues, but we are still at Varee and happy.

 

Interested to know why you didn't look at Varee?

[deej]

On 5/20/2020 at 9:57 PM, 1arry1iu said:

The Bad

 

 

 

Wachirawit School was the second school we visited. It lost my wife when we parked in front of the main building facing a river without a fence or wall in between. She asked what if playful children fall into the river by accident. It lost my daughter when we climbed a few dozen staircases into the lobby of the main building where parents stood in a long queue paying their children's tuition. My daughter said, "It looks like a public hospital." It lost me when the female teacher who received us at the Registrar's Office started by showing us a fee schedule, instead of telling us about the programs they offered. Needless to say, they could not show us the curriculum, textbooks, or a sampler timetable.

   A few  yrs back my step daughter attended Wachirawit School where  she received    a scholarship and proceeded to the King.s Uni Chiang Rai

where she graduated  with First Class Honours 

With respect  from your posts  .my view  is . that .

you are too picky .

But 

wish your daughter the very best of luck 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by deej

[Dante99]

44 minutes ago, deej said:

   

With respect  from your posts  .my view  is . that .

you are too picky .

But 

wish your daughter the very best of luck 

 

 

He is just demonstrating his genius.

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Dante99

[deej]

3 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

He is just demonstrating his genius by identifying other's shortcomings.  A favorite TV pass time. 

And clearly  posts such as yours are sadly  bringing  Cmai TV forum to its k.nee.s

[daveAustin]

Dara is naff beyond anubaan and classes too big. Varee seems alright.

[Mapguy]

Picky or not, perhaps not presenting themselves in an appropriate manner, none of us was there. Some substantive remarks about the schools rang true from my experience over the years.  Regardless of what might be your favored school, it is healthy and useful to see this topic revived after many years.

 

The "international" private school market has been expanding now for some years much on the economic promise of enrolling Chinese students.

 

Since more people are apparently looking, the more information the better. Let's hope it is beyond "My son or (daughter) is happy there."  Glad a good match was made, but not much information offered.

[1arry1iu]

On 5/22/2020 at 3:46 AM, bryan45876 said:

We went on a trip last summer and visited a ton of primary schools:

• Chiang Mai International, Varee, ABS, Unity Concord, American Pacific International, Lanna, Chiang Mai Montessori, Sangtit Rangsit

If you want to know more about any of them or our impressions let me know. We too want the Thai system and decided on Varee. We haven’t moved there yet, but plan too later this year if/when things return to normal. Ideally in time for the next semester to start in October. If we stayed long term we would probably switch to Chiang Mai International as we know the American system, but at first we want our kids to have more of a Thai immersion experience.

Hi Bryan, I would appreciate it if you could share your opinions on Varee. We did not get a chance to visit the school as it was closed due to COVID-19.

  

On 5/24/2020 at 6:31 AM, iainiain101 said:

We wanted our kids to learn Thai and so chose Varee. They have the 3 streams, Thai, Bi-lingual and International. 11 years on, there have been issues, but we are still at Varee and happy.

 

Interested to know why you didn't look at Varee?

Thank you, iainiain101. We tried to visit Varee twice, but it was closed due to COVID-19. We will definitely try it again this week.

  

On 5/24/2020 at 7:45 AM, deej said:

   A few  yrs back my step daughter attended Wachirawit School where  she received    a scholarship and proceeded to the King.s Uni Chiang Rai

where she graduated  with First Class Honours 

With respect  from your posts  .my view  is . that .

you are too picky .

But 

wish your daughter the very best of luck 

 

 

Hi deej, glad to hear your daughter has completed her undergraduate studies successfully. We hope our daughter could go to college in China or the United Kingdom, but who knows. It will be her decision any ways. Thank you for sharing, and yes, I am picky.

[bryan45876]

For our situation and wants, Varee looks like the best fit. Our kids currently speak very little Thai, and our main goal is to improve their Thai. Varee has 3 programs - Thai, EP, and International. We landed on the EP program because hopefully it won't be too much of a shock to them to go from American schools to Thai schools. I think around 50% of the classes are taught in English.

 

Varee has a very nice campus and security / safety seems pretty decent. We were impressed with the administration and they spent a lot of time talking with us about the pros/cons of the different types of education available in Chiang Mai and about Varee's approach. The teachers we talked to were very friendly, open, and let us observe a class for a little while as well. They had a very well organized area for kids aged 3-5 as well which is something we were looking for.

 

We didn't really evaluate the school from a perspective of where students end up after Varee as we plan to have our kids back in the US for high school, but Varee seems to have a decent reputation. We are after having our kids learn Thai and the mixed language of the EP program is what we found to be the best. With that as our goal, we ended up ruling out most of the full blown "International" programs. There are also various facebook groups where you can find parents of current students there to talk to as well.

[Paiman]

Totally agree with your statement on the Dara Ac. 

[niebla]

Lanna is a good choice for second grade, although not a Thai School as the OP is looking for. Prem and CMIS are very good International School also.

[deej]

8 hours ago, 1arry1iu said:

 

  

Hi deej, glad to hear your daughter has completed her undergraduate studies successfully. We hope our daughter could go to college in China or the United Kingdom, but who knows. It will be her decision any ways. Thank you for sharing, and yes, I am picky.

Many thks for your very nice reply

With my remarks of you being picky ????

Perhaps using the old adage

Never judge a book by its cover. i should have used

BTW

My step daughter  in  her final yr exams at  Wacharita  acheived 8 straight fours.

Studying  Air Avitation at the Kings Uni Chiangrai over 8 seimesters (4yrs)she recieved marks of 3.82 overall.

She can speak and write 6 lanauges 

BTW

Presently she is holding  a  clerk.s position  in Bangkok

with Exxon Mobil Company

who she absoulately thrilled to work for 

In summing up a  normal Thai Education from Maerim Primary school to  Wacharita  then to the King.s Uni in C/Rai (passing with first class honours ????)

As i posted previously i sincerly hope your daughter has all the luck in the world

for her future studys no matter where ????

 

[1arry1iu]

14 hours ago, bryan45876 said:

For our situation and wants, Varee looks like the best fit. Our kids currently speak very little Thai, and our main goal is to improve their Thai. Varee has 3 programs - Thai, EP, and International. We landed on the EP program because hopefully it won't be too much of a shock to them to go from American schools to Thai schools. I think around 50% of the classes are taught in English.

 

Varee has a very nice campus and security / safety seems pretty decent. We were impressed with the administration and they spent a lot of time talking with us about the pros/cons of the different types of education available in Chiang Mai and about Varee's approach. The teachers we talked to were very friendly, open, and let us observe a class for a little while as well. They had a very well organized area for kids aged 3-5 as well which is something we were looking for.

 

We didn't really evaluate the school from a perspective of where students end up after Varee as we plan to have our kids back in the US for high school, but Varee seems to have a decent reputation. We are after having our kids learn Thai and the mixed language of the EP program is what we found to be the best. With that as our goal, we ended up ruling out most of the full blown "International" programs. There are also various facebook groups where you can find parents of current students there to talk to as well.

Thank you, Bryan. Varee does look modern and neat from the outside. We will visit it soon.

  

6 hours ago, deej said:

Many thks for your very nice reply

With my remarks of you being picky ????

Perhaps using the old adage

Never judge a book by its cover. i should have used

BTW

My step daughter  in  her final yr exams at  Wacharita  acheived 8 straight fours.

Studying  Air Avitation at the Kings Uni Chiangrai over 8 seimesters (4yrs)she recieved marks of 3.82 overall.

She can speak and write 6 lanauges 

BTW

Presently she is holding  a  clerk.s position  in Bangkok

with Exxon Mobil Company

who she absoulately thrilled to work for 

In summing up a  normal Thai Education from Maerim Primary school to  Wacharita  then to the King.s Uni in C/Rai (passing with first class honours ????)

As i posted previously i sincerly hope your daughter has all the luck in the world

for her future studys no matter where ????

 

Thank you, deej. Your daughter is an achiever, and sounds like an outlier, instead of a normal case, of Thai education. I do not think it is common for an ordinary Thai to speak and write 6 languages, especially if she can do it with enough proficiency. Schooling is not the totality of education, but I am certain that in your daughter's endeavor for self-discovery and -development, she must have found value in Wachirawit. Otherwise, she would not have thrived according to your description. We hope our daughter will also find value in the school she chose herself, and grow vigorously.

[Mapguy]

Just to add some more specific questions to ask during school visits which might be to primary, middle and senior schools:

 

1.  What percentage of teachers at your school have degrees in education? (primary and higher)

 

2.  What percentage of teachers at your school have degrees in the subject area(s) they teach (middle and higher)

 

3.  What percentage of your students go on to higher education?  Where? (middle and higher)

 

4.  How many of your teachers have studied abroad?  Where? ("international" and "other" language programs?

 

5.  What is the average tenure of your teachers? (all levels)

 

6.  How many students will be in my child's class?  What is the teacher:student ratio?  How many assistant teachers, certified and non-certified? (all levels)

 

The above questions can be asked in different ways, and you will probably have some other questions which focus beyond how nice and friendly people are, particularly administrators.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Mapguy
clarity

[1arry1iu]

On 5/28/2020 at 9:15 PM, Mapguy said:

Just to add some more specific questions to ask during school visits which might be to primary, middle and senior schools:

 

1.  What percentage of teachers at your school have degrees in education? (primary and higher)

 

2.  What percentage of teachers at your school have degrees in the subject area(s) they teach (middle and higher)

 

3.  What percentage of your students go on to higher education?  Where? (middle and higher)

 

4.  How many of your teachers have studied abroad?  Where? ("international" and "other" language programs?

 

5.  What is the average tenure of your teachers? (all levels)

 

6.  How many students will be in my child's class?  What is the teacher:student ratio?  How many assistant teachers, certified and non-certified? (all levels)

 

The above questions can be asked in different ways, and you will probably have some other questions which focus beyond how nice and friendly people are, particularly administrators.

Hi Mayguy, I read your list of questions a few days ago. As a teacher myself, I understand the importance of credentials and qualifications. Nevertheless, they remain secondary criteria for me due to my education in education and personal experience through public education in China from primary school to college. I was reading Carl Jung today, and happened to find a paragraph on schooling aligning with my personal educational philosophy, especially for small children.

 

"This is an expression of primitive identity, from which the individual consciousness frees itself only gradually. In this battle for freedom the school plays a not unimportant part, as it is the first milieu the child finds outside his home. School comrades take the place of brothers and sisters; the teachers, if a man, acts as a substitute for the father, and, if a woman, for the mother. It is important that the teacher should be conscious of the role he is playing. He must not be satisfied with merely pounding the curriculum into the child; he must also influence him through his personality. This latter function is at least as important as the actual teaching, if not more so in certain cases... The teacher, as a personality, is then faced with the delicate task of avoiding repressive authority, while at the same time exercising that just degree of authority which is appropriate to the adult in his dealings with children. This attitude cannot be produced artificially; it can only come about in a natural way when the teacher does his duty as man and a citizen. He must be an upright and healthy man himself, for good example still remains the best pedagogic method. But it is also true that the very best method avails nothing if its practitioner does not hold his position on his personal merits. It would be different if the only thing that mattered in school life were the methodical teaching of the curriculum. But that is at most only half the meaning of school. The other half is the real psychological education made possible through the personality of the teacher. This education means guiding the child into the larger world and widening the scope of parental training. For however careful the latter is, it can never avoid a certain one-sidedness, as the milieu always remains the same. School, on the other hand, is the first impact of the greater world which the child has to meet, and it ought to help him to free himself progressively from the parental environment. The child naturally brings to the teacher the hind of adaptation he has learned from his father; he projects the father-image upon him, with the added tendency to assimilate the personality of the teacher to the father-image. It is therefore necessary for the teacher to adopt the personal approach, or at any rate to leave the door open for such a contact. If the personal relationship of child to teacher is a good one, it matters very little whether the method of teaching is the most up to date. Success does not depend on the method, any more than it is the exclusive aim of school life to stuff the children's heads with knowledge, but rather to make them real men and women. We need not concern ourselves so much with the amount of specific information a child takes away with him from school; the thing of vital importance is that the school should succeed in freeing the young man from unconscious identity with his family, and should make him properly conscious of himself. Without this consciousness he will never know what he really wants, but will always remain dependent and imitative, with the feeling of being misunderstood and suppressed."

Edited June 1, 2020 by 1arry1iu

[Mapguy]

Gesunheit!!